The bonding adventures of Pinky and Rupert!!!

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Hello all and welcome to the saga that is and will be the bonding of Pinky and Rupert.

 

Recently Babybunsmum and myself have adopted a new bunny (each!  )… I adopted Rupert and she adopted Pinky. She’ll be attempting to bond Pinky with Baby (and Bogart?) and I’ll let her tell you about that. I’ll be attempting to bond Rupert with my girls Kokanee and Kahlua. We’ll be writing about the bonding process here, sharing pictures and stories of our bonding attempts and seeking your help, advice and support!

Sooo stay tuned!! Same Bunny-channel, same Bunny-time

[MarkBun]

Heh, let’s see if you can beat my 4.5 months.

[apanda]

oo I will definitely be watching this closely/maybe chiming in w/the adventures of Truffles & Ms. Craigslist if that’s okay with you and bbm

[babybunsmum]

lol markus!  i may not be able to beat your time considering baby’s too-old-to-be-spayed status but we’ll see…

pinky will be spayed next thursday and i’m going to wait a month for her recovery & hormones to settle a wee bit before a first ‘official’ bonding session.  but i have already started with some small thing… and i’m calling this the “pre-bonding phase.”

so far i’ve been doing separate pet / play sessions with each of them, mixing up who’s first, so the second bun smells the first on me.  the dog also helps with this since he’s great around both of them with my supervision.  both buns love to groom his head if he’s laying down and would jump & pee all over him if i let them (which i don’t anymore… poor dog).  also, i switch blankies between them.

then there’s the baby gate.  they have been nose to nose thru the baby gate and i wasn’t sure if they were going to start nipping eachother.  they have only both ever nibbled on the gate itself, but i saw a potential escalating problem so i blocked off the babygate holes using a piece of choroplast.  both of them pee & poo on their side of the gate, so i have to be diligent in keeping the floor swept & wiped down.  lots of work, but dang they’re cute!

right now baby has free-run of the house & her bedroom from morning to noon, then she’s gated into her room & the back hall while pinky has free-run of the house & her room until dinner.  baby get’s the evening shift in the living room and during part of this time i hang out in pinky’s room & play with her too.  so it’s a pretty even mix of free-roam and socializing time.  the dog goes where i go.

that’s it so far.  we’ll continue to do this pattern until may.  although i may try to ramp up switching things with ‘smells’ while pinky recovers from her spay.  i haven’t switched their litters yet, which seems like a good thing to try.

thanks for starting the thread k&k!  looking forward to reading about rupert’s adventure

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[babybunsmum]

Posted By apanda on 03/27/2008 2:39 PM
oo I will definitely be watching this closely/maybe chiming in w/the adventures of Truffles & Ms. Craigslist if that’s okay with you and bbm

sounds good to me… what a bonding adventure thread this will be! 

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Ok for those of you who are new (or have bad memories like me ) I’ll introduce my ‘players’ first:

Kokanee->1.5 yearold Dwarf Dutch (maybe crossed). She’sa sweet but demanding diva. Shes unspayed as of yet. Currently bonded with…

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Kahlua->0.5 yearold Lionhead. She is spayed, looks cute, but a little bit of a terror. (Bonded with Kokanee)

 

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Rupert->Unknown age neutered male. Sweetie pie but a bit of a ‘nervous nelly’

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I want my girls to get along with and share arrangemnts with Rupert. I want this because

a) Rupert needs bunny lovin!  b) It would be a whole heck of a lot easier to clean house if they all share one! c) It’s not nice to share your mommy with bunnies you don’t like.

 

So my approach is to bond Rupert with each girl seperately. So far….well, I’ll fill you in at my next post. Stay tuned.

[MarkBun]

Khalua has been reminding me of someone for a while now.  And I think i finally figured it out.

D’argo from Farscape:

[LittlePuffyTail]

Your bunnies are too cute Kokanee… I’ll be tuning in for tips as I’m still undecided about whether to try bonding my “little terror” with my “little sweetie”

[Beka27]

Bogart is the strangest looking rabbit i have ever seen… and definitely the biggest! 

lol… i’m looking forward to this.  i cannot wait!

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Ok, I’m going to summarize what happened to date;

We brought Rupert home, he was extremely tense, so we brougth Kahlua out and ‘showed’ him her, and he perked right up and started flopping, eating and drinking (it was like “oh good, you know what I am and you have more, i can relax now”). Not anticipating a problem from my little lionhead we let her run around while Rupert was in his temporary enclosure (an x-pen type set up in the kitchen). Kahlua ran up and stuck her nose in and chomped him, so he chomped her back. Bad. So we put stuff around his pen so she couldn’t bother him (gates) and she promptly ‘piddled’ all around his enclosure. Bad.

We thought, Ok, Kahlua is off limits for a bit, let’s try Kokanee. We sat with Rupert in Dave’s lap and Kokanee in mine and put them together; Rupert lunged at Kokanee and chomped her bum. We pressed his face down for nose rubs and Kokanee licked his ears. Good.

Kokanee had a bought of poopy bum, so we put her off limits, so as not to upset her.

We did a ‘bath’ session with Rupert and Kahlua. To stress them first (as a car ride isn’t *that* feasible since we live in a no pets apartment and are on the third floor, its a bit of a bummer to sneak bunnies out ) we put them both in (seperate) carriers and walked around the apartment for about ten minutes with the vaccum on (hey we’re creative!). Then we put them in the tub (lined with towels and with bits of parsley all over-so they wouldn’t fight over it but could socially bond over eating). Rupert immediately kept trying to bite Kahlua but we sprayed him each time. We sprayed her for any and all attempts to bite back. Eventually they were soaked and chilly so we squished them side by side to cuddle. They did. Awesome. Kahlua even tried to groom him a bit. End of session. Warmed them up with towels and fed lots of treats.

Next session, lets let them free and see how it goes (if we need another “stess and supervise and spray’ session). Kahlua tries and tries to hump Rupert, he keeps tossing her off and mounting her (although not humping or biting). No fights. Good. Since Kahlua can’t hump him, she just runs away from him. They eventually flop near each other. End of session, treats.

Heres a video we made of that session:

http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc181/kokaneeandkuhluha/?action=view&current=rabbits2.flv

Anyways Kahlua was off to get spayed and recover so we put bonding those to on a break. Kokanee was still recovering, and they were on a break. So the bunnies were just seperate.

I was home one evening (about two weeks ago) with a girlfriend and we were going out but I wanted to let the bunnies out to play. So I gated the hallway and gave Rupert run of the hallway bathroom bedroom, and the girls got the family room kitchen. I suddenly heard loud noises and ran over there. Kokanee had pushed the gate over and her and Rupert were latched on face to bum to face to bum. Both had little wounds to neosporin. The hallway was full of fur. Boy was I upset. It was scary. They were fine. But now I think they are mortal enemies. As soon as they see each other they both go head down, bum out, tail up, growling.

So I thought of ‘bunny jail”. I built out of cubes a config that would have them in a small space next to each other, but gaped so they couldn’t chomp through the bars. The idea was for them (safely) to exhaust their ‘fight or flight’ that they’ve been doing and *have* to relax and eat, as they would be in there long enough. I did a session almost every day for over a week, that they were in ‘bunny jail’ for over an hour. We tried them together again. They fought. BAD. I don’t know if “bunny jail” is helping of hurting…So I am asking your opinions on that!!

 

Here’s bunny Jail.

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Any suggestions/comments/advice TOTALLY WELCOME Thanks for reading!! More to come!

 

 

 

[apanda]

hmm do you give them greens and or treats while they are in “jail”? I think if jail is overall a negative experience it could be hurting, but if you make it positive and get them to eat together and relax together a bit it might help. Like what if you took the top off and made it 1 cube higher, and pet them at the same time to relax them? you could switch hands to mix their scent during.

[kimberleyanddarren]

i am looking forward to reading all this! for when i get my next bun *coughs at boyfriend* lol

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Yeh, I try to make it positive, giving them lots of greens, and I hang out beside it the whole time, I usually read on the couch directly beside them. But yeh, in their bunny minds I don’t know if it’s helping or hurting….

[babybunsmum]

i’ve never bonded 2 buns together, so take this with a grain of salt, but i would think it’d be helping UNLESS they get aggitated while they’re in bunny jail.  i thought that if my 2 gals could see / smell eachother thru the baby gate that they’d be getting used to eachother before i started the actual bonding sessions, the same way switching blankies or litter boxes works.

i’m going to pickup more nic cubes to attach to the babygate so there’s a gap between so that they can’t bite eachother.  i think – and correct me please (anybody) if i’m wrong – as long as they’re not getting riled up then it’s ok.

so in rupert’s case, my thoughts are if you’re combining bunny jail with dating sessions, and the jail time isn’t causing them to get riled up, then it’s okay.  i want to scan through markus’ thread tho… i seem to remember him talking about a method/theory save-a-bunny uses which may apply here.  if i find it i’ll post back

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Allo allo…Ok I did a Kahlua-Rupert session last night. We started in the bath tub. I put down towels and treats. I got a few pics I am hoping to have uploaded tonight to show you. Anyways Rupert was sort of ‘chompy’ so I used the spray bottle on him. He doesn’t seem to understand that biting is not OK, as he nips anything that displeases him. Anyways He nipped Kahlua a few times for nothing. It seems if she comes to close to him he nips. She was stressed out by the nipping and the bathtub so she really wanted to huddle up with him. Finally I climbed in the tub, sat down and but them between my legs smooshed up and cuddling. I gave them nose rubs and they tooth purred. I thought that was pretty good. Then we came out of the tub but stayed in the bathroom. I did some practice approaches with Kahlua (holding rupert by his front haunches, then moving kahlua up to him) …As soon as he gaped his mouth to chomp, I told him NOOOOO Rupert, be gentle, pushed him down into submission and then let him up for nose rubs. We ended on a good note, as I nose rubbed them both cuddled up together.

He seems to like her but be really defensive about her approaching him; Whenever she does he comps her! Ugh…anyways it went well, and they both got some treats after…

[MarkBun]

If it helps, the chomping was the last stage with Maryann before the bonding.  She almost ‘lazily’ nipped Dono.  “Oh, you’re here?’ *nip* “Okey, I’ve done my work, move along.”

Is Rupert frightened by the vacuum?  If so, you may want to turn it on just outside of the bathroom door so he hears it and he might want to hunker down with a cuddling as well.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

You know what that might work actually…Maybe I’ll do a quick session tonight between volunteering and stuff and see how that goes!

[babybunsmum]

good luck… *taking notes*

[apanda]

AND SO IT BEGINS…

The craigslist bunny arrived today! It was traumatic because her owner got very lost and I couldn’t figure out where she was. And when she eventually got here she was HUGE! Doesn’t seem like she is only 1 pound heavier than Truffles lol. Anyways she is pretty awesome and seems to fit the big bun stereotype I have heard about on here: easy going, sniffed me and my boyfriend right away after a super long trying car ride and flopped out. Anyways I am housing them next to each other and exercising them separately for 3 days to a week so they get used to each other before braving the big bad intro. Here’s some pics of the new bun (I think I will call her Flurry, because she looks like a McFlurry or a snow flurry teehee) and the set up.

bonding set up, before I put a little more space between pens and blocked off the entrance to in between with cardboard:

A Flurry flop:

 

Typical interactions:

 

[MarkBun]

I would also suggest swapping out litter pans at least once before the bonding session.

[apanda]

good idea, but since Flurry is so much bigger her litter box is also a lot bigger. I heard swapping enclosures is also good, do you think swapping pens but not boxes would work or if not  I could just deal with the misplaced poop for awhile

PS- so glad you are commenting on this thread markusdark. I read your bonding saga thread and it made me really resolved that almost ANY bonding is possible if you work hard enough.

 

[Deleted User]

I am so glad this thread is here. I want to get Shadow a companion, but since his neuter he even more of a brat than before. He gets along great with the cats and dogs (if you consider terrorizing cats and dogs getting along).

I am hooking up with the LI rabbit rescue for some bunny speed dating. I have informed the BF we will be needing his services as bunny chauffer to stress them (oh goody all four of us will be stressed). Stocking up on nick cube parts and neosporin.

I have never doubted my ability to blend animals into one house hold, I have a great track record for that….however this is very scary to me.

[babybunsmum]

flurry what a great name!   how exciting that you’ve begun the bonding… i’m glad you’re joining in the thread too. 

i also wonder about them switching enclosures.  i’ve been doing a version of that… right now both my buns have a set-up in their own ‘bedroom’ plus i have an enclosure in the living room.  which ever bun is having ‘free roam’ time gets to jump in & out of the living room enclosure & use it’slitter / drink water & eat hay there.  they both mark the buhjeebers out of it so i’m pretty sure it’s slowly working.  whether it’ll make the bonding seesions go well or not we’ll have to wait & see!

now that pinky is spayed our first official bonding session is a few weeks away.  it will be interesting to see what – if any – behavioural changes happen now that she’s missing her girlie bits.  i’ll be able to test this out with the dog after she is safely healed from her surgery

bunzai… def let us know how your speed dating sessions go!

[apanda]

UPDATE:

So I’m not really sure how to interpret all the body language thats been going on but maybe some of you bunny language experts can help

Although they ignored each other first (good sign yea) Truffles is now SUPER interested in Flurry and follows her up and down their respective pens. He also spends a lot of time staring at her through the bars and squeezing his little face through trying to sniff her. Sometimes she stares back. They will often stay near each other and there have been a couple of side by side flops, also a few side by side bunny 500s. Everytime I am letting Truffles out for play time he will try to get around me and rush for the front of her pen to sniff her. He doesn’t seem like he is attacking, just sniffinf?? Also I guess it is possible he has amorous intentions because I heard him make the weird gruntish noise and thump he used to make before attacking his panda slipper/joy toy pre surgery. I know its only been 2 weeks since his surgery so maybe the appearance of a girl bun (albeit a spayed one) is reawakening desires he hasn’t shown since the neuter? It doesn’t look like hate at first sight right?

Here’s some examples of their interactions:

 

[MarkBun]

swapping enclosures works too. It might help with Truffles since he’s been very curious. The thumping and grunting is the only thing that has me a bit apprehensive but again individual buns do individual things. The fact that Truffles decides to flop next to Flurry is a good sign so I’m thinking that Truffles could be saying just about anything with the thumps. I notice with the nose to nose that Truffles doesn’t have his tail up so he’s not showing overt aggression.

Rabbits can be VERY curteous through the cage bars. Maryann would allow anyone to hop up right next to her and they’d go nose-to-nose without incident. But the moment the cage bars were gone, she would begin the nipping.

While they are in their own cages, you may want to see what a closer sniff will do. Allow Truffles to approach Flurry while Flurry is in her cage. TRY very hard not to be nervous or afraid of what is going to happen. If you have seen my videos, you should know that absolutely no injuries occurred. Fur flew but that is the fur’s job. I had come to the realization that Maryann was sensing my tension and apprehension about them meeting so she was saying to herself “Dad’s nervous. What’s making him nervous? Oh, that bun just moved. It must be him! Stop upsetting my dad!” *nip*

Imagine that Truffles will actually groom Flurry through the cage. Since the cage is between them, the worst that will happen is that Truffles will nip Flurry slightly but he really can’t hit any vital spots. If he does nip, do not panic. Don’t lunge at the cage to pull them apart. Just clap your hands loudly and say “No!” No matter what happens, do this at the end of Truffles exercise and then pet him a few times while he watches Flurry through the cage (but far enough away that he can’t nip her), giving him praises, and then put him back in his cage.

I wouldn’t try it with Flurry to Truffles cage as Truffle will be defending his territory.

And I just want to comment that although I spent a great deal of time bonding my buns, I would like to point out that it was someone else that got them over the final hurdle. I only managed to get to the point where Maryann was a ‘polite and sedate bully’. But I’m pretty sure I can tell you what WON’T work.

[Beka27]

apanda! i love those pics! the side by side flop is very sweet! i do hope they can be friends. are you going to try them together within the next week or two?

[babybunsmum]

i think that the grunts & thumps could be amorous / dominant behaviour.  when pinky does that around the dog thats how it seems to me anyways, since she’s usually leading upto trying to hump his head if he’s laying down.  and when she does this she’s not mad at all… she’s hopping around him curiously.  but like markus said… individual buns do individual things. 

[apanda]

great advice guys thanks! I think what I am going to do is, seperate side by side cages seperate excercise time for the next 2 days to give Flurry a little time to adjust to the move and make sure I’m not overly stressing her since the car ride was very stressful. Depending on how I read the mood I might let Truffles sniff Flurry through the cage like Markusdark suggested. Then another 3 days of side by side living with switching pens every night. THEN the big intro car ride to bathtub. Woot I’m so excited, not to mention up to my eyeballs in bunny poop

[apanda]

UPDATE:

Oh my goodness that Flurry is one BIG BAD BOSSY BUNNY lol. I left Truffles sniff her supervised through the bars twice yesterday and as far as I can tell he was just interested and curiously (not aggressively) sniffing and Flurry let him have it each time with a nip or box. I clapped my hands and said NO and then tried to pet Truffles down to calmness where he could still see her but it was hard not sure how calm he got. Gave him a raisin once though and he ate it while looking at her so I guess that’s good. Jeez I would have said no way she could be all territorial about a pen she hadn’t lived in for 24 hours yet but I think she thinks she already owns the place lol. So this should be interesting…stay tuned for more updates

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

…My computer skills are showing…but can a moderator change the title to “The bonding adventures of Pinky, Rupert and Flurry!” pretty please!

[MarkBun]

It could be that Flurry is feeling a little territorial as she is new to the area and is trying to defend the small amount of area she’s found herself in. How neutral is the space? Did Truffles have free run of the place before?

Seeing as how Flurry was the aggressor, you may want to try the same tactic but this time be holding onto Flurry when she sniffs Truffle through the bars. It could have been that she was seeing it as a two against one thing and if you’re on ‘her side’, she might be a little more comfortable.

[apanda]

Great idea I will try it from Flurry’s side! They are housed in Truffles’ room (used to be my room lol), but before Flurry came I rearranged the furniture and cleaned up, trying to create a semi neutral space.

[MarkBun]

Yeah, it ain’t neutral. No amount of bleach or cleaning up will change that fact. I can understand the trouble with no neutral space though. It is interesting that it was Flurry engaging in the attacks first. Maybe it was because you were holding onto Truffles so that Truffles felt as if he shouldn’t be bad. Being in another bun’s space will have one of two reactions from a new bun. One is to hide, the other is to attack. Both are completely understandable and an issue to deal with – but it is also completely normal.

You’ll just have to use a good amount of scare tactics when the real bonding begins – especially a lot of car rides.

[apanda]

Weell so I tried the supervised sniffing with me on Flurry’s side of the pen with mixed results. The first time Truffles sniffed Flurry while I was petting her down with no incident! YAY! But that was a very short sniff. Then a little later on in the night I tried it again and she nipped him even with me petting her down, but I think it is definitely better when I’m on her side so thanks for that Markusdark!

So since she’s always the one doing the nipping it seems like she definitely will be the top bun. Not sure how Truffles will take that since this is HIS territory, but I guess its good he hasn’t been fighting back and is still not scared of her. But this could be a tricky bond, so I think starting Friday their whole first week will only be together in the car while its running, and I will progress to together in the car after the engine is turned off, and then maybe only on week 3 try the bathtub. I guess its better to go super slow than to have to try to mend it if they do become mortal enemies.

[MarkBun]

Save a Bunny feels that if they’re not going at each other’s throats and trying to get out of the enclosures to kill the other bun, they won’t become mortal enemies. It is just a matter of time and work.

[babybunsmum]

another chapter in the pre-bonding of baby & pinky…

yesterday they must have figured out how to breech the board i have against the babygate to block off the little holes thru the baby gate.  when i went to give pinky her last dose of metacam she had a scratch on her wee nose

she already had a little scar there… a dot right on the center of her nose without hair… but now there’s a red dot next to it with a red line going down from it.  darn it!  those wascally wabbits.  poor pinky!  this leads to a question about neosporin…  should i put some on the wee scratch?  it was not bleeding when i saw it as it had already scabbed.  also i guess i need to be prepared for more of this when actual bonding sessions start.  good grief.  i need to toughen up before we start! 

oh yeah… after i noticed pinky’s nose i still had to give baby bun her eye drops and i decided she needed a nail trim too.  i cut into the quicks on 2 of her nails!!!    gees.  i got them fixed up quickly & put baby into her enclosure where she promptly gave me a loud thump of disapproval.  what a night.  each of them got some celery as a treat… to make me feel better.  lol.

[apanda]

hmm so I posted about yesterday’s car ride but it seems like it didn’t post, so anyways the car ride was good and today we progressed to:

THE BATHTUB:

So today was Flurry and Truffles’ first bathtub session! We tried running the vacuum cleaner to get them to huddle together in the beginning, but surprisingly neither was afraid of it, not even Truffles who HATES loud noises.

It was a pretty good session all in all. Flurry bit Truffles in the butt a few times in the beginning, not very hard though, and when she tried to start a real scuffle and got sprayed with water a few times, SHE actually got scared of the spray bottle and started trying to snuggle with and hide behind Truffles! So it turned out being a stressed situation after all lol. But yea they stayed together for 20 minutes, no real fights, and Truffles was really comfortable he started trying to figure out a way to get out of the bathtub and even washed his face while she was right next to him! Flurry was mostly scared after the water, but she did eventually explore a little still without incident! Yay hope it goes as well tomorrow, if it does I will lcontinue the session for 30 minutes!

 

[MarkBun]

I know it sounds bad but the fact that you got something that Flurry is afraid of will help with the bonding. The more she looks towards Truffles for support and safety, the more they bond. With my bonding with Maryann, I see it as a GREAT session when the instigate-ee is moving (aka washing) themselves next to the instigator and she’s not attacking.

Not to get your hopes up, but I think that your bonding will go much better than mine. Again, when bonding check your emotions. When you spray Flurry, don’t feel “OMG, I have to stop her from hurting Truffles” but rather think “THERE! Now go snuggle with Truffles!”

After another session or two in the bathtub, you might want to see what they do if you put them into the same carrier on a car ride. This was one place that my buns, even in the beginning, never fought. And, if something starts, you can just shake the carrier and they’ll stop.

[apanda]

BATHTUB SESSION #2: Mounting gallore!

So today was bathtub session #2. This time Flurry got real scared and flattened out immediately under my petting when she got into the bathtub, no biting and no need for the spray bottle! I guess she had bad memories from last time. Anyways whatever the reason the reduction of big bad bossy Flurry to fuzzy fluffball of fear made Truffles take over and play dominant bun! Boy was I surprised when he kept mounting her AND SHE LET HIM! Except for when he tried to mount her head the first time (bad lessons learned from the panda slipped most likely lol) I let it go on for about 10 seconds while stroking Flurry’s head and making calming noises before pushing Truffles off and petting them both down next to each other. I also gave them raisins together. Except for the love nibbles Truffles took out of Flurry during mounting and a few pay attention to me nips from Flurry (none hard enough to make Truffles complain) there was no biting or fighting at all in 25 minutes! Yay I’m trying not to get TOO excited but I really hope it keeps going this well. I think my next step in maybe 3 more days if it still goes well is to do expand the bonding area to the whole bathroom (with the small hidey nook places blocked off) to see what Flurry does when less terrified. I already tried the car ride, and Flurry doesn’t get that scared surprisingly so its not ideal for me. As for shaking the carrier or putting it on a dryer…Flurry is so huge that both she and Truffles won’t fit in the cat carrier lol.

Pics: (sorry for the over all badness the bathroom has horrible lighting)

 

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Did a quick session last week with Kahlua and Rupert. Lined the tub with towels and food; Got my spray bottle (and camera) ready. It went OK but Rupert was pretty chompy. So we reconvened to the bathroom floor where I forced them to cuddle supervised (and held) so there would be no chomping. That went OK. It seems Rupert’s real problem is being approached. If I move kahlua towards him he opens his mouth up HUGE for biting….Bad Rupert….Heres some pics I managed to get before he started chomping her!

 

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Yes…Ruperts face is wet in the pictures…he got a spray for nipping…

[apanda]

BREAKING NEWS: WE HAVE GROOMING!!!!

Omg so I guess Truffles asserted his dominance enough with his incessant mounting because Flurry broke down and GROOMED the heck out of him today! She did it at least 4 times during our half an hour session! And boy did she groom him good His fur got all ruffled and spitty so cute! AND at the very end just when I was despairing of it happening before I had to put them to bed, TRUFFLES GROOMED FLURRY! Ok it was about 3 licks to the side of the face but it was still grooming right? Yippee if it goes well again tomorrow I think I am going to move to the whole bathroom floor instead of the bathtub. What do you guys think?

Oh and pics, they are very blurry and bad but they are GROOMING PICs *glows with happiness*

[MarkBun]

Kahlua and Rupert – they seem to be progressing well for a tough pair. just keep it up and it should begin to soften.

Apanda – it is terrific news. It does seem that Truffles has established himself as the dominant bun. And the fact that he reciprocated with grooming in the end also helps enforce the fact that he is accepting of Flurry. It is still early but if they act the same way a couple of more times, you’ll be all but there with the bonding.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Markus …What kind of activity would you suggest to stop the lunging? Like, any time a bunny comes towards him he opens his mouth huge and then they get close and he bites…

I was thinking, on a smooth surface, repeatedly haveing one of them approach him (like toys really I have my hands on each of them to do the approach) and then either click and treat for not opening his mouth, and/or smoosh him down for opening his mouth??

Help!!

[MarkBun]

When he opens his mouth, say “No,” and press his head down to the floor. Let the bunny approach then and sniff him. Then, begin petting him and the other bun.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Thanks!! That sounds good Markus!!

Right now, bunnies are at my parents house (My parents retired and are off in Texas somewhere ) as they are doing stuff in our apartment suite this week. I’m thinking about keeping them at my parents house (ignoring the bunny bum and disapproving looks I’m getting) as it will give us an oppurtunity to do some ‘backseat of a car’ bonding and some ‘on the drier’ bonding. I was going to give them this week to get settled in a bit (don’t want too much stress!) then do the bonding stuff next week; then move them home. What do you think?

[babybunsmum]

well k&k you know i’m no bonding expert but i think that sounds like a great plan!  off-site bonding worked for maryann & dono, tho i’m not clear on what they actually did to bond them.

i’m itching to start bonding.  only a couple more weeks to go and i’ll be joining the bonding posts

[apanda]

K&K something that I’ve just discovered works pretty well: brushing the aggressor down. I’ve moved the buns to the bigger but still neutral upstairs landing and ALL truffles is interested in is mounting, cirlcing, chasing, basically acting like I didn’t spend 200 on his neuter a month ago! lol. So I only let that behavior go on so long before I take him off put them side by side and pet him down. He got so worked up at one point this stopped working, so then I started brushing him down, because he hates brushing. Well he kind of huddled up to Flurry and she groomed him to make up for the indignity of it all It also kills 2 birds with one stone since Truffles is going through a HUGE shed.

[apanda]

THE BANANA TRICK REALLY WORKS!

So Truffles has been being a selfish little man, mounting every chance he gets, demanding to be groomed, and responding to Flurry’s groom-me-posture with more mounting! To try to induce some grooming on his part, I put some very mushy banana on Flurry yesterday. Well today I caught him grooming Flurry sans banana! Yay happy! No pics tho because he seems more likely to do it if I’m not looking because if I see it ruins his tough guy act I guess. Teehee.

They are still in a neutral area, so I think in another day or 2 I will try having them run around together in the non neutral area. It makes me really nervous to think about since it feels like a big step so I hafta work on being calm for the buns

 

[MarkBun]

Actually, the bun doesn’t want you to think that he is leaving you for another bun. Or, to be more precise, isn’t putting that bun ahead of you on the pecking order. They see you and stop because if you want a groom, you’d get to cut in line.

Maryann does the same thing with Dono. If she catches me looking at her grooming him, she will immediately stop and turn her butt towards him.

[apanda]

lol markusdark I’m sure you’re explanation is right but it just put the funniest visual in my head of me cutting Flurry and pushing down my head to get groomed hehe.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Did a little bonding session with Kokanee and Rupert yesterday as I was doing some laundry (re: drier bonding )

I was home alone, but I managed (bravely) to get ahold of both of them and get them on top of the drier. I had to put a towel down because they both were like bambi on ice and neither could stand although being like bambi on ice is not conducive to fighting hehe

Anyways, we did about ten minutes, and I ensured there was NO biting (although Rupert did try to sneak a couple in, I caught him and said “NO biting!!” and the whole time I just pet their noses and told them how good they were and to be gentle.

No blood at all. It went well Besides being COVERED in hair from the two molters!! No grooming from either of them-it looks like Kokanee wants to groom him, then remembers she HATES him

[MarkBun]

I prefer to put them both into a carrier with no towel and then put that on the drier. That is the usual way it’s done. It forces them to be close together for support.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Ok, I’ll give that a go maybe tonight Thanks!!

[babybunsmum]

pinky and baby’s bonding session #1

ok… so we’ve had our first bonding session and i caught it all on video.  the clip is just under 6 mins long… pretty long i know but i wanted to keep a lot of footage in to show how they were behaving.  that actual session was about 15 minutes long.  i *thought* i was acting calmly during some of the scuffles but after watching the footage & listening to my wierd muttering i now think otherwise.  lol.  i guess i’ll need more practice before i am truly calm.  i was prepared for the fact that they would scuffle but it was still more stressful than i thought it would be.  poor baby seemed to cower after the scuffles & she was pretty upset.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjzbT1aXJEM

i checked both of the girls over afterwards for sores & they both had a scrape at the base of one ear so i used some polysporin on it.  is that the same as neosporin?  it contains bacitracin zinc and polymyxin b sulfate as active ingrediants.  it’s the plain kind & doesn’t have any pain relief stuff. 

next time i want to start the session with them side by side (like i did at the end) and then see how it goes when i stop petting them.  it seems like there’s a power struggle going on with both wanting to be dominant.  i want them to work it out but it’s going to be difficult for me to determin if they’re working out or at an impass.  what do you think?  should i do a few more sessions like this (getting more organized & calm in my tussle intervention methods) before i try some fear bonding on the dryer or in the car?

any comments / suggestions are welcome!  thanks

[Lisa_43]

That bonding session was ok for the first one, do you have somone to do the filming so you can have two hands free?

[babybunsmum]

no it’s just me but if i can wrangle my mom or a friend i’ll def do it.  thats a good point… i don’t plan to take a vid next time so i have another hand free.

[babybunsmum]

question… is there a rule of thumb for the best time of day to bond buns?  i was thinking of avoiding their ‘high energy’ times but i wonder if they’d be crankier if i interrupted sleepy time. 

[babybunsmum]

pinky and baby’s bonding session #2

ok… today’s session i kept at about 10 min. long.  i started out by putting them side by side like at the end of session #1 and when they wanted to move around i put on the bathroom exhaust fan.  that did the trick to keep pinky still because she’s very alert to noise so she crouched next to baby & leaned into her.  baby’s hearing is not that good or she’s not startled by noise in the least, but since pinky seems to be the instigator of the 2 it worked & they stayed put for about 3 or 4 minutes after i stopped petting them. 

neither of them presented their head to the other for grooming.  the lowest either chin got to the ground was about 2 fingers away.  baby raised her head up & looked as tho she was about to groom pinky a couple of times but then didn’t.  she eventually was the first to take a step away & this prompted pinky to sniff towards her butt and baby started scrambling.  i didn’t let any chase happen and baby wasn’t allowing any butt sniffing much less mounting today.  after i had them both stopped in their tracks i put them back side to side.  pinky got a mouthful of hair but i don’t recall baby biting at all today.  just trying to run away and jump out of the tub.  she wasn’t grunting / whining like yesterday which is a good thing, she just had had enough.  we ended like last time with a couple of minutes of side by side petting & calmness & that was that.

i did feel one little scab under pinky’s ear that i didn’t notice yesterday.  her hair is so much thicker than baby’s that it’s really hard to see her skin.  at least she’s white & if she has a bleeder it’ll be obvious.  fingers crossed i won’t ever have to worry about that tho!

so after today’s session, which went relatively well, i think i’ll do a week of these bath tub dates and see where it gets us.

edit to add… after pinky got a mouthful of baby’s fur i draped baby over pinky like markusdark did with dono & maryann.  it was kind of funny because they both just stayed there with looks of “wha…???” on their faces.  i moved baby back to pinky’s side after they hadn’t moved in 15 sec because i was worried there’d be a blow-up.  15 secs seemed realllly realllly long at the time.

[MarkBun]

Yeah, the first time I did that manuver with Maryann and Dono – they both also had the same ‘whaaa’ reaction.

So, the bonding did look somewhat aggressive but it happens. The main thing is that you want to make sure that Pinky is not trying to stand her ground when Baby attacks. That is where it gets a bit dangerous. It seems that she is willing to allow Baby to be the dominant as she moved into her when the noise started.

You may want to try a car ride sometime soon. The first step would be to put both of them in the same carrier and see how well they behave. A slight rocking shake of the carrier should quiet them down. Then, after a 10-15 min ride, put them both into the bath tub with a small pile of greens.

The hardest part is not to be apprehensive about these things. Baby will pick up on it immediately and become just as anxious. Do realize that it does take a bit of fighting to actually hurt one another. You saw the fights that Maryann and Dono had and not once was there any blood. As long as you interrupt them within a couple of seconds, they should be fine.

You may need to reassert your dominance over Baby (as if any of us had any with our buns ). When she attacks, or begins to posture to attack, press her head down onto the ground gently but firmly while saying “No.”

Also, when you do the side by side petting, try to pet them both at the same time. One hand over both heads will help mix scents and not let anyone feel that they aren’t getting the attention.

[babybunsmum]

thanks for the feedback markus!  so you think baby is the more dominant one?  i couldn’t tell… pinky is the one interested in humping baby but then baby is doing all the attacking whenever pinky gets near.  i’m going to wrangle them into the carrier & take them for a car ride.  wish me luck (i have NO idea how i’m going to get them both in there)!

[MarkBun]

Luckily, I have a top loading carrier so it makes it much easier for me. I drop in the second bun and I can latch the top and pick it up before Maryann has time to turn around to bite.

Yes, Baby is the dominant one. She was in the house first and still having all her plumbing doesn’t help the situation. A bun mounts another bun when they’re trying to assert dominance but Baby keeps running away from them and then attacking – showing that she doesn’t want to be the second.

[babybunsmum]

pinky and baby’s bonding session #3

ok… so we started out with a 10 min car ride this time and then retired to the bath tub.  i taped the beginning of the tub part, had to stop to free up both hands and then taped a small section once i got them side by side again to show their posturing.  poor baby just wanted out and any time she moved pinky nipped at her side.  pinky branched off to eat a few times.  the tub session lasted another 10 min.

i hope this isn’t being too hard on baby… she’s so whimpery when she’s trying to get out of the tub.  both buns return to normal behaviour after they are returned to their rabitats so i *think* we’re okay. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9R0kpugB-8

[MarkBun]

Maryann would do the same thing with Dono.  As long as he was motionless, he was more or less okey.  I was told it was her trying to tell Dono that he could move WHEN she said he could.  It does look like that Pinky is taking the more dominant role now. 

It is a little bit of work for the buns during the bonding process but it is one of those things that after they bond, it is a much better thing.  Remember to be firm with tone and body posture when stopping Pinky from nipping Baby, and say No as you push her head down to the ground.  Hold it there for a little bit (a few seconds).  You can also do this pre-emptively when Baby comes over to investigate Pinky.  It would be interesting to see what she does to her if Baby is not allowed to initiate an attack.

 I’m assuming that they didn’t fight one another when they were in the carrying case?  If you don’t want to do the car ride, the case on top of a dryer with a load of wash in it seems to work too.

[babybunsmum]

when i put baby in the carry case with pinky there was an initial shuffle but no nipping.  they ended up facing opposite directions after the shuffle & then they stayed that way for the entire ride.  baby was NOT impressed but wasn’t whimpering and pinky looked freaked out.  i need to do laundry tonight so we’ll try a dryer ride & see how it goes.

by the end of this tub session i was becoming much more comfortable with being firm instead of freaked so i think i’m better to facilitate the bonding now.  phew.  i’ve done so much reading about bonding but experience is golden.  i can now recognize their pre-nip posturing (pinky’s anyways) and i was able to stop pinky ahead of time – doing what you mentioned & holding her head down to the ground.  this def takes the wind out of her sails.

i have a long NIC fence that’s 2 panels high & i could set it up in my basement in that formation you posted before with the ‘L’.  i was thinking of trying this on the weekend after a few more stress bonding sessions.  thanks again for your input markus… it’s very appreciated!

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Had two unexpected bonding sessions last night…

I went over to my parents house to do some laundry and bring the bunnies home. I let them out for seperate times to run around. Rupert was hanging out by Kokanee and Kahlua’s cage and Kokanee was litterally trying to fight through the bars!! Since I had the drier on….

I grabbed both and headed to the drier-that thing really works!! It’s noisy and movey and slippery…They literally had to lean on each other and there were only a couple of nipping attempts!!

So, time to go home…with three bunnies…all by myself..!!!

I decided to be super brave. It was after one, so no traffic, plus I take mostly country roads between my parents house and mine. So I put all three on the seat beside me and drove them. It’s about a twenty minute drive. ABSOLUTELY no scuffling!! They all cuddled up together and I *think* Kokanee licked Ruperts ear a little (hard to see, I was trying to conentrate on the roads and it was dark). It was amazing!! When I got them home, I opened the carrier (I took them up in a carrier) and let them go, to see what would happen. Rupert was ecstatic to be home and plodded off to his favorite spot under a table….which also happens to be KOkanee’s favorite spot….So when Kokanee bounded up, Rupert assumed a charge position!! And Kokanee….hopped off!!! SUCCESS (may not sound like it, but usually neither back down and they charge each other!!)

 

PHEW!! I’m soooo pumped!!

[babybunsmum]

wow thats great!  i’m def trying the dryer ride tonight.  how do your buns respond to car / dryer rides?  how freaked do they get?

now… maybe i’m too much of a softy, but i’m wondering… is there a point where buns can be too freaked out during stress bonding situations?  my 2 gals are very different but i worry about them being too freaked.  baby leapt out of the tub onto my chest yesterday which is verrrrrry uncharacteristic (tho i admit i was flattered) and with bath fan noise or in the car pinky’s eyes look like they’re about to pop out.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

They actually don’t SEEM that freaked out, but they definitely drop all this “I’m tougher then you” behavior and stop nipping-which is a miracle with Nippy-I mean Rupert

I’d go by how rapidly they are breathing and how desperate they are to get out of the situation…Say three attempts to leave, give a nose rup and stop the bonding session?? Definitely go with your gut here-you know your bunnies best!

[MarkBun]

BB-

Buns can be a bit ‘freaked out’ during bonding sessions. Dono would simply hide in a corner during them. But ‘long term’ issues are non-existant as far as I know. It is one of those things like taking kids to get their shots. “This may be scarey for a short while, but in the long run, you’ll be a much happier bun”.

Like you said, once they’re back in their own spaces alone, they become their normal selves again so it isn’t any worse (again IMO) than during those short minutes you use a vacuum to clean up the house.

KK – that’s great.  The fact that they will hunker down like that is (again IMO) a sign that they can be buds.  Buns that won’t get along won’t tolerate the other near them – even during scared times. 

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Thanks Markus!! I was hoping it was a good sign <-I"m excited!! LOL

[babybunsmum]

alright… it’s been a week with no bonding sessions and now i’m a little leary to continue.  just as my confidence was strengthening in being able to spot aggressive posturing & head nipping off at the pass, dealing with baby’s bites has knocked me back down a peg.  poor gal.  no WONDER she was so uncharacteristic in that last session & trying to leap out of the tub & tuck under my chin!  i also found another scab on her head right between her ears today from a now-healed scuff.

i really do want my girls to bond and giving up after 3 sessions would just be crazy.   i justfeel so bad finding baby’s injuries days after they happened dispite giving them a once-over.  the vet said her inner ear bite mark looked as though it was infected and had drained, and her gooey eye was def due to a scuff on her eye ball.    i suppose i’m all prepared for the worst now with the hydrogen peroxide, polysporin, and ciloxan ointment. 

i didn’t get to trying the dryer ride with them so i’m working up the courage to try with that, keeping them pressed against each other & not giving them room to move about (which is what instigates nipping from pinky).   i know they’re supposed to work out their dominance issues but i think i need a few sessions without injury to gain confidence before i let them roam in the tub together again.

i know baby is feeling better now because she threw a semi binky this morning so maybe a wee session before i go out tonight?

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Why not try a little session on the drier…don’t expect too much or try to last too long; That’ll build your confidence and theirs too

[MarkBun]

10 minutes is a long enough time for initial bonding sessions.  I would suggest a 5-8 min ride on the dryer, followed with opening up the carrier in the tub, letting them hop out of it and then giving them reassuring pets while next to each other – don’t give them an opportunity to bite one another.  Then pick up Baby and cuddle her while bringing her back to her place.

 

[babybunsmum]

thats what i had planned to do.  pinky had other ideas.  gees she’s one tough bun.  i put them in a box & carried them down to the dryer which was already going and literally 6 sec after i took my hand off of them pinky bit baby’s face.   i held her head down so her chin was on the bottom of the box & sternly said ‘pinky NO BITING’.  i reassured baby by petting her several times, then i put them back side by side.

they both look leary & had their noses together & then like a flash of lightening pinky bites.  it’s so hard to forsee.  so i threw a tennis ball into the dryer that i use to help dry puffy things because it makes even more of a racket.  still no luck freaking pinky out.  she got another good bite in on baby’s head.  grrr.   again i held her head down so her chin was on the bottom of the box & sternly said ‘pinky NO BITING’.    i reassured baby by petting her several times, and this time i picked baby up to inspect her closely before i put them back side by side. 

baby wasn’t trying to leap out of the box which is good.  since pinky was so feisty i decided that i wouldn’t let her try to move at all.  any time she raised her head i held it back down for several seconds & then stepped back again.  at one point it looked as though baby was going to groom pinky.  this got me to thinking the goal should be to just have them sitting side by side without biting for maybe 10 min. stretches and not let pinky move so she doesn’t bite baby but baby has the opportunity to groom her.  maybe if that happens pinky will lay off her? 

when i brought them back upstairs i separated them because i’m pretty sure pinky would’ve biten baby right away.  neither one seemed freaked out in the least which is a huge relief!

[MarkBun]

One bonding technique I heard about but never tried was to put them both into the box together then pile on enough towels and blankets that they literally have no room to move. Did you try a car ride?

Heather at Save A Bunny also did something that was rather weird. Apparently buns ‘respect’ each other’s space when they’re around. She rolled up a towel until it was about 4″ in diameter and then put it between them in the shopping cart. Neither one crossed over the towel. I’m not sure if you could do this with a really big/long box or not.

It’s hard to continue when buns are biting one another, I know.  I just found a scab on Dono’s nose so I guess Maryann is still nipping from time to time – but it is VERY infrequent and the scab was very small.  However, the way he was acting when I tried to inspect it, you’d think he was in the inquisition.

[babybunsmum]

lol markus.  dono sounds like quite a character.  in other words… perfect for maryann!

i did take them for a car ride once and i think i’ll do it again.  pinky is def freaked in the car & so this seems to be the best option for them being side by side without her trying to bite.  prob is my carrier is pretty small & so they’re really squished in.  last time they ended up facing diff directions the whole time.  i want to buy a new top loading carrier thats a teensy bit roomier.

i could try the rolled towel divider but i’m still worried that pinky will bite since she’s so bold.  maybe thats one to try after a few car rides.  i still can’t believe she’s getting baby to submit.  wow.  if only baby would groom her to say “okay we all get it… you’re the boss”. 

[babybunsmum]

so i bought a new carrier that opens on the top as well as an end and loaded pinky & baby in for a car bonding session.  we didn’t even make it off my driveway.  good grief pinky seems to be getting worse!  markusdark, she’s just like maryann was with dono in that one youtube video i saw of them. 

i rolled up a big piece of fake sheepskin & put it between them.  didn’t make a bit of difference to pinky.  she’d slyly stand up tall, glance around & then WHAM plant her teeth in the nearest part of baby.  the good news is that baby seems less freaked about it.  she climbed on pinky at one point.  but i had to have my hand on pinky 80% of the 15 min session just to prevent biting.  which is why i didn’t get out of the driveway.  by the time i let go of pinky’s head and put the car in gear pinky was already trying to bite baby.

the only thing that seemed to pinky to ignore baby was if i jarred the carrier by sliding on the concrete (we retired to the front porch when i realized driving away wasn’t going to happen).  the neighbors must think i’ve TOTALLY lost my mind.  shoving a pet carrier around my porch with 2 buns in it.  oh and at one point i was singing too.  that also made them stop & wonder… ‘what’s THAT awful noise’  lol.

i swear baby was on the verge of grooming pinky again.  i’ll keep trying this.

[MarkBun]

Some people just have them in the carrier and shake it whenever they begin to act up. I know one person (well me too) who suspended the carrier on bungee cords so once any action started, the carrier would swing/bounce and they’d stop.

Pinky does sound like a real terror. I’m not sure how much she thinks she has you wrapped around her paw and thereby sees you as a subordinate and therefore your reproaches mean nothing to her. I would suggest a professional bunny bonder if after 4-6 weeks you haven’t seen any improvement (if you have such a thing).

[babybunsmum]

Pinky does sound like a real terror. I’m not sure how much she thinks she has you wrapped around her paw and thereby sees you as a subordinate and therefore your reproaches mean nothing to her.

you know what?  that is an excellent point markusdark!  in the past whenever i practice picking her up it’s in her room & often from her enclosure.  your comment got me thinking… she has the run of the place when she has free-roam time & since the place is more & more rabbit proofed and i know i can pick her up if/when i *have* to, i really haven’t been handling her frequently.  no wonder she assumes she’s the big boss & won’t take me seriously!

so i’ve decided to do a little bit of extra work with pinky separate from our bonding sessions with baby to try to assert my dominance over her.  today i started by picking her up from the hardwood floor in the living room.  she scrambled to get away as usual so i put one hand behind her bum & with the other hand i pressed her head down til her chin was on the floor.  i held her like this after she settled down for a few seconds & then said “up” and picked her up.  she didn’t kick once while i lifted her!  then i held her for a while & combed her hair (she’s shedding like crazy right now) and didn’t let her jump down.   worked like a charm!

i’m going to do this several times in different locations each day while we’re bonding and see if it helps.  holding her head down is the best way to show dominance right?  are there other things i could incorporate into my routine which would help?  i’m going to re-read the lanuage of lagomorphs & see if something new leaps out at me in this context.

i’ll look around to see if such a thing as ‘professional rabbit bonders’ exist around here too.  that would def be worth a shot if it’s available!

[MarkBun]

The gentle press down onto the floor of the bun’s head shows dominance so that’s just fine. According to Save A Bunny, my major hurdle was that I wasn’t the alpha rabbit in my house – Maryann was. It wasn’t until I introduced a new ‘rabbit’ (Marcy who owns Save A Bunny) that she found out she wasn’t top bun and what she said went, ergo an easier bond.  So, yeah, a re-establishing of who’s in charge helps to have her heed your words and movements.

You also might want to try a little squished banana on Pinky’s head so that it will encourage Baby to begin grooming her.  If Pinky sees that Baby is being subordinate, she might not be so fast to assert her dominance.

[babybunsmum]

i was thinking of the banana trick too!  baby has come so close to grooming her that this might be the nugde she needs.  i already see a diff in pinky’s behaviour since i’ve been practising picking her upstarting with the head press down.  i don’t think baby knew i was top bun until after she was sick & i had to give her meds daily so i’m confident this will help.  i’m looking forward to tonight’s bonding session!  as soon as pinky stops constantly lunging & nipping i’ll record some of the session / take pics. 

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

So I think Kahlua and Rupert are bonded now…They had been out and loose since Saturday; I just couldn’t clean the cage up and put them in there. So we left them loose in the apartment. It’s bunny-proofed and Kahlua is much faster then Rupert so we knew (and hoped) nothing would happen. Although Rupert nipped at her a bit, they sure didn’t fight; After being spayed Kahlua has no illusions of being dominant-and no need to hump or bite.

They were doing pretty good and even sleeping within inches of each other. You could really see that she wanted to cuddle with him; But he just wasn’t ready.

I fixed up the cage, opening it up and adding the ramp (as planned a long time ago) so that all three floors are accessible. They can’t operate the ramps yet, so I’ll have to do some modifying…

Anyways we put them in there for a bit, and now I’ve just left it open for them to go in and out. Last night Kahlua went up to Rupert and groomed him. I think we are good now.

[babybunsmum]

yay for rupert!!!  i’m so glad it’s going well between them.  i’m sure kahlua is very happy to have rupert right now… great that there’s grooming! 

i just finished another bonding session.  first one in quite a while and this time i set up a spot in my basement.  pinky has never been down there but baby has.  baby was only down there once and she’s clearly not the dominant of the 2 so i figured in would work out as a neutral spot.  so i laid a thick cotton drop sheet down in the corner, set up my nic fence, added a little nic corner and a box with some hay.

i put baby in the ‘zone’ first & when i came back with pinky poo she had claimed the hay box.  when i set pinky down she began exploring right away (she’s quite a bit bolder than baby who was very hesitant to move at first) and they both ignored each other for a minute.  then pinky made her way towards the hay box & baby jumped out.  they sorta looked at each other surprised but with ears forward until pinky leaned towards her.  i immediately pressed pinky’s head down firmly thinking she was about to bite.  when i let go she hopped beside baby and nipped her side and baby jumped into her hay box while i held pinky’s head down again.

there was one other nipping incident (pinky got a nice chunk of hair out of baby but no sores resulted) but other than that the interaction was this:  baby in her hay box and pinky exploring about.  pinky would go between the nic corner & the end of the hay box so it was almost like the hay box was baby’s and the nic corner was pinky’s.  everytime pinky approached the hay box & baby i started petting both of them simultaneously both to fend off pinky from biting baby and to try to associate pets with being near the other bun. 

after 10 mins of this i blocked them off from each other & ran upstairs to get a plate of greens.  i set the plate down and while pinky came towards it (she’s a little piggy & never passes an opportunity to eat) i lifted baby out of her box & set her across from pinky at the plate.  i immediately started petting each of them simultaneously.  when i let go pinky started eating & baby backed away.  baby ran around my feet and then back to the plate.  when she approached the plate pinky leapt over the plate & chased her away.  i intercepted & then put pinky & baby back across the plate & started petting each of them simultaneously again.  pinky started eating & baby backed away & went back into her hay box.

pinky seemed content to stay & eat while baby was content digging in the hay box, eating some cecals & grooming herself.  so i called it a day.  not a bad end actually i think.  here are some pics in sequential order.

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[babybunsmum]

oh yeah… and bogart observed the whole session trying to tongue bb’s thru the nic fence of course!

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[MarkBun]

Not too bad. It is nice to see them not going immediately for the throat. At the moment, Baby is acting like Dono did when I brought him home. Maryann was such a terror that he didn’t want anything to do with him. However, he did munch greens with her and they never attacked on another during it.

I wonder what the bonding session would be like if bogart was in with them. I mean, both buns are friends with him, yes?

[babybunsmum]

yup, both buns are friends with bogart.  baby pays more attention to him – loves to groom & snuggle with him – but pinky is also very comfy with him running around between his legs or using him as a stepping stool.  would be interesting to try a session with bogart since baby loves him so much he may draw her out a bit & run interference between the 2 buns.  he sure was interested in them & cried a bit to be left out of the bonding area.

[MimzMum]

Awww…poor Kahlua! Gosh, Rupert is such a big bunny compared with her, what on earth would he feel so threatened by such a sweet little powder puff like that for? >.<
Maybe his name not Rupert…but RUCIFEE! (ever see Disney’s Cinderella?-need bunny icon with horns here)
Cute piccies though! ^_^ I LOVE Rupert’s coloring…do you happen to know his breed perchance?

[MarkBun]

The only thing I am a little worried about with bonding with Bogart is if the buns start to toussel, what will be his reaction. If he gets into the action, he could cause some real injuries.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Yeh, I’ve no idea what Rupert’s concern is with her!! I think, because he has ‘incorrectly’ healed broken leg (it’s pretty much at a ninety degree angle) so maybe he’s sensitive about his mobility? He’s actually quite mobile and fast, just not very graceful (something he and Kahlua have in common).

This morning they were eating out of the same bowl-no fighting. Kahlua’s learned not to take food out of his mouth (she used to do that with Kokanee).

It was quite cute last night; I was sitting on the couch and Kahlua hopped right up on the couch (something she’s never been able to do before, and Rupert can’t either). The look on Rupert’s face “how in the world did she manage that?? OMG!!” Then he tried to get on the couch (of course couldn’t). Too cute!

[babybunsmum]

we have entered into a new phase of bonding pinky & baby:  the stunt double phase

since little miss pinky has so much rabbitude and wee baby bun has had her eye gouged twice now i decided to take BB’s advice & try a stunt double.  today pinky and the stunt double named dino had their first session & i taped it.   after the session i returned dino to baby’s room so that they can hang out over night and i’ll let dino spend the day with pinky. 

it was interesting to observe pinky’s behaviour with dino.  she seemed fine with dino as long as he wasn’t moving.  when i moved him around pinky got aggitated & lunged & bit him.   actually i think it’s a good idea to have a pinky & dino session where i move dino around right before any sessions with pinky & baby.  but for a couple of days i’m going to just switch dino between the girls & see how pinky behaves with him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7Dwl3oLTUE

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[Beka27]

Posted By markusdark on 05/23/2008 9:51 AM
The only thing I am a little worried about with bonding with Bogart is if the buns start to toussel, what will be his reaction. If he gets into the action, he could cause some real injuries.

this was my thought too.  i wouldn’t take a chance, at least not in a super-closed in space.  maybe later on down the road.  i still have to commend you on Bogart!  i love how gentle he is!

that’s a weird looking rabbit.

oh it’s a dinosaur!  lol!  (j/k!)

[babybunsmum]

lol… dino seems to be accepted as another bun dispite his reptilian likeness    so far he hasn’t  been torn to shreds at least… just taken a bit of a beating from miss pinky poo as expected.   dino spent the night snuggling with baby bun & then this morning during baby’s free-raom i put dino in with pinky.  pinky ran to greet him with a nip on his face but after i made dino ‘groom’ pinky’s head & then left him stationary pinky went about her business.  i have my fingers & toes crossed that this will take the edge off of pinky’s nipping.  at the very least it’ll give me practise observing / interfering with her nipping to better protect baby bun.  good grief pinky lunges quickly & out of the blue!  sheesh!

yeah i won’t try to throw bogart into the mix until pinky stops lunging & biting.  i seriously doubt she would do that to bogart but i can’t risk it since i have no way of knowing how he’d retaliate.  also, i do not know how he’d react even seeing pinky lunge & nip at somebun else.  it may rile him up enough to jump in there.  i would NOT want that to happen!  i’ve seen bogart ‘get into it’ with a group of dogs at the off-leash park who were in a tussle.  he didn’t nip anyone but he pokes with his nose like he’s saying “hey!”  if he did that to a bun it could really inflame the situation too.

[MarkBun]

I noticed that Pinky was grooming the stunt double. That is a good sign. And I see that Baby likes to curl up next to Dino – which to me means that she wants to have a bun friend.

Have you tried switching domiciles yet? I’d keep with the stunt double for a bit right now though. Maybe a couple more days and then perhaps have Pinky spend the night in Baby’s house and vice versa.

[babybunsmum]

thats another great idea markusdark… had forgotten about switching them around  being a bonding technique.  i’ll def keep dino going because i think we’re making slight progress with pinky.  last night i went to retrieve dino from pinky & pinky had him pinned upside down & was trying to tear strips off his belly.  lol.  didn’t seem like a good thing.  but then today i set dino out in the living room with pinky & she went & groomed him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04yKhAFTYhk

so i think there’s a possibility that these two may bond eventually.  baby def will be willing… she’s always looking for a cuddle buddy (as long as it’s not with her feet off the ground).

i’m sure pinky poo will looooove to spend time in baby’s room.  that’s where the hat mother load is.  baby has already attempted to climb ‘mount hay-lyptus’ so i’m sure it’ll only take pinky about 45 sec to try to get on top of the huge container. 

[babybunsmum]

the stunt double… part deux

okay so it’s been a little over a week with dino the stunt double making regular visits between baby & pinky.  we have seen some progress and i understand a little more how pinky’s wee little brain works.  

baby has taken to dino quite nicely & grooms & cuddles with him.  she treats him like she treats the dog and if she’s in her room with dino i often find her laying near him (i placed him in diff spots to test the theory).  i def think baby will appreciate having a bun friend around to hang with.

pinky has also calmed down quite a bit towards baby-scented dino.  she no longer boxes & nips when i place dino in her enclosure altho she does grunt if i do this while she’s eating.  still… that she’s not lunging & biting is a good sign imho.  after one sleep over there were green tufts of dino fur around the place    yet she also grooms dino and otherwise generally ignores him.

i want to start switching them between each others rooms but will delay that momentarily.  i bought some more nic cubes on the weekend to build baby an enclosure in her room (right now she’s just baby-gated in her room when pinky’s out & about).  i want to give baby a while to be used to her new enclosure and then start switching them between each others spaces.    after a while of doing this i want to move the girls in the same room.

i thought of an enclosure set-up for baby that will eventually be able to slide in next to pinky’s enclosure in her room.   i want them to be in the same room – bonded or not – so this will be perfect.  the enclosures will initially be next to each other but separated by a few inches and so that when one has free roam time they cannot get close enough to nip the other thru the enclosures (nic fence).  in the event that they do bond I can open up a couple of panels & join the 2 together.  

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[Beka27]

that sounds like a plan. Max and Mead are next to each other in the same room… they both seem relaxed when they’re in their spaces and i’m switching them each night to the other pen. terr. poops have decreased also.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Going to have to post some pics soon; But Kahlua and Rupert are officially bonded!! They’ve been living together just over three weeks and I’ve seen both of them grooming the other

[kimberleyanddarren]

WOOHOO! go bonded bunnies!! cant wait to see pics

[Author]

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