Testing Positive for E. Cuniculi

[Preston Cooper]

Hello,

I have a rabbit that has tested positive for E. Cuniculi.  He shows  no symptoms. He was tested so as to establish a baseline. I do not yet have a copy of the blood test, but from what I understand the titer is very high.   We are going to do a urine test next.  My vet likely will want to put him on Fenbendazole.

  Has anyone had a situation like this, where the test runs positive, but the rabbit seems fine? If so, please tell me what you decided to do?

This rabbit was a rescue who  came from a very very unhealthy environment.  Poor nutrition, & very unclean conditions.  He is a small netherland dwarf and since the day I took him home, I felt he was fragile.  I give him alot of attention and care with as minimal stress as possible.  In fact, he was one of two buns I rescued, the other one I lost to severe GI statis while being treated for pin worms with Panacur.  It turned out, that he had them too, but after her adverse reaction, we treated them with Strongid-T Liquid. It took many months, but  he is finally got rid of them.  Now we face this and I am scared of his reacting poorly to the drug as well as if this is the right course of action, to do at this time,  if he is assymptomatic.

Thanks. MC

 

 

 

[JK]

I’m so sorry you have to deal with this. I don’t know but there are many experienced people here that can help. I believe Binky Bunny’s bunny has this so hopefully she will respond. I wish you the best.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

I am sorry for you. I hope it’s a good sign he doesn’t have symptoms. **VIBES**

[Preston Cooper]

Thanks for the kind wishes & thoughts.

[Kathy Smith]

It is thought that a very high percentage — perhaps as high as 80% — test positive for e.c. Most never develop symptoms.Interestingly, almost 10 years ago I had all my bunnies tested. I had 5 at the time and only one of those was negative. We did preventative treatment with oxibendazole for the four that were positive. One died a year later of kidney failure. One developed symptoms a year later, declined rapidly, and showed no response to oxibendazole when given it after symptoms developed. One (King Murray) lived another 4 years and died of heart problems. The 4th lived another 8 years and died of cancer.

Since then I have had several bunnies test positive and never develop symptoms. I have also had one (Fred) test negative … and develop symptoms. His companion was e.c. positive and had an attack. When Fred started developing symptoms, Dr. Allan and I both assumed it was NOT e.c. because he had tested negative… It took several visits before it occurred to us that he might now be positive (he was).

At this point I have chosen not to have most of my bunnies tested, because I personally would not do preventative treatment with a bendazole drug and because test results (either positive or negative) can “bias” how we see symptoms. Because of the similarities between horses and rabbits — and the fact the Ivermectin has replaced Fenbendazole as the “wormer of choice” in the horse world — if I were going to try a preventative treatment I would talk to my vet about trying this treatment:

http://www.barbibrownsbunnies.com/ecuniculi.htm

Kathy Smith, Author Rabbit Health in the 21st Century

 

 

 

[charlie82]

As Krsbunny says, e.cuniculi is present in most bunnies. Some will live their life presenting no symptoms and some will go on to develop problems associated with the parasite. For preventative measures you can treat your rabbit with a wormer such as Panacur. Treat your bunny regularly throughout the year and especially at times of stress i.e moving home, travelling etc as stress is a major factor in ‘awakening’ the disease.

[Gravehearted]

 Hi MC – welcome to binky bunny!  I am sorry to hear about your bunny’s concerning health issue

E. cuniculi is a a very common parasite in bunnies.  A positive e. cuniculi titer means that your bunny has been exposed to the disease at some point, but  does not mean he will ever have symptoms.  Even the rising titer does not mean anything signifigant.

Article about e.cuniculi and treatments

If it were my bunny, I would go ahead with the course of Fenbendazole, if your vet recommends it.  It sure sounds like he has had a very hard life, and I am very happy to know he has such a loving and caring home now.

[Gravehearted]

also – welcome to krsbunny thanks for sharing lots of very helpful information with everyone.

[Kathy Smith]

Thanks for the welcome. Glad to be here. I’m new to the world of forums (familiar with e-mail lists)… so please forgive any breaches of manners while I learn.

This is just my personal opinion … and it comes as much from 25 years experience working in the pharmaceutical industry as from my 20+ years with rabbits … drug treatment is never risk-free. I know there was a formal stufy of Panacur (fenbendazole), but the sample size was very small (30 if memory serves me, which it may not). The most common side effect is elevated liver enzymes, which usually return to normal when treatment is stopped. You may want to offer liver support herbs (dandelion root, burdock root, and milk thistle seeds) — my bunnies gobble them as treats. There have also been (VERY RARE) reports of aplastic anemia (a bone marrow disease) in bunnies who were treated with either fenbendazole or albendazole (I have not heard this reported with oxibendazole, but that doesn’t mean it hasn’t occurred).

Kathy (still learning this forum stuff)

[LittlePuffyTail]

This is something I have not really done much reading on. Is it more common in some areas than in others as I’ve never heard of any bunnies having this.

[Preston Cooper]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. And the welcome.

 I read the link to barbi brown sent by Kathy (thanks again) and find it interesting as to how she suspects one of the causes of E. cuniculi can be from dehydration.  My little boy was born into  a sitatuion where they (the rabbits) did not get enough  water  and when they did, the bottles were typically dirty and mixed with some awful ‘brown’ stuff- supposedly a vitamin booster. that ended up staining his back teeth. 

Thanks for the comments on drugs. I know panacur is commonly used and widely accepted to have no side effects.  I have another bun I adopted from an animal shelter after loosing the girl.  She is also a rescue, but I  believe she came from a situation where the prior owner did not want to care for her anymore rather then outright neglect and cruelty by an animal collector.  She has tested negative for E. cuniculi, but now that the boy is positive it has been advised that she should be retested again (in a month or so).  If matters needed to be, I would not hesitate to put her on Panacur.  With him, I feel more hesitant.  His reaction to everything is often much more exaggerated and intensified.   I am thinking that a standard blood test might  be helpful in evaluating his overall health first?  I am also wondering if he is put on Panacur now as a preventive, what would that do if at a later date he actually develops symptoms and really needs this drug?

I had guinea pigs for many years and although I never had this problem, I am familair with ivermectin being used for mites.  Guinea pigs have limited tolerance to certain drugs as do rabbits and to my knowledge there has never been any problems with this form of medicine if given in the proper dosage.  Perhaps it just seems more in my comfort zone to lean towards considering this method if treatment ibe necessary. 

I am also wondering, as suggested by Kathy regarding the possibility of increased liver enzymes,  if there are certain foods, herbs, etc.  that can be given to help build  up and strengthen his immune system.

Thanks again everyone for the replies and comments. 

 

[Preston Cooper]

Gravehearted, thanks for the link on e. cuniculi.

[BinkyBunny]

Welcome mc and krsbunny!

krsbunny – you’re doing great! Thanks for joining us!

mc, many e.cuniculi bunnies live symptom free their whole lives, while others may suffer from it as they grow older and their immune system become weaker, and other unlucky bunches deal with symptoms throughout their life.

I have three of each type of case….so far. My first bunny Forrest suffered symptoms early on, and actually ended passing away – but we feel it was due to the meds – we didn’t know as much  back then about the damage they can do in some cases. 

Bailey has always had it as far as I know.  She was symptom free, but we treated her as soon as I found out – 6 years ago, and she was symptom free untill a year ago. She received a new treatment drug called Ponazuril, and it quickly stopped the decline. We had to make sure to get blood tests to check the liver enzymes and that particular drug in this particular instance did not cause Bailey any problems even after longer term use. It did however, begin to cause anorexia, so we stopped it (it’s not meant for indefinite treatment anyway)
We are still working with her to regain her coordination and strength in her back legs via t-touch, PT, and most recently acupuncture (which has seemed to really give postive results)

Then, there is Rucy who was not positive when I got her, but is positive now.  She shows no symptoms.   My vet decided not to treat her because the levels are so low and because of the side affects that some of these treatments can cause.  So we just periodically test her to see if her levels rise.

I’m sending out “symptom free” vibes for you bunny!

NOTE: EDITED: 3/25/08

[Kathy Smith]

It is pretty common here in the US … My intuition is that there are different “strains” in different parts of the country, which perhaps explains why different treatments seem to work better in different parts of the country. Most of the vets here in the MidWest have had success with oxibendazole… but none whatever with fenbendazole. Fenbendazole seems to work in the east …. Albendazole in the west.

 

 

[Kathy Smith]

Hi MC

First, I want to encourage you to trust your intuition on giving (or not giving) the Panacur. It sounds like you are really “in tune”. You have a good thought about doing regular blood work to assess overall health — CBC tells you about the blood cells themselves and Serum Chemistry will give you insight into health of liver and kidneys. Once you have those results you’ll have a better idea how to proceed AND you’ll have baseline values should any problems occur in the future.

You raise a valid concern about whether treating with Panacur now would make it less effective if he needs it down the road. I don’t have the answer to that … and I don’t think anyone really does. However, the concern you raise is what I actually saw with Goldie and the oxibendazole. Do I know she didn’t respond to the oxibendazole because she was on it before? No! Do I think it is a very real possibility? Yes!

What you say about “intensified reactions” to everything also strikes a chord with me. The Late Great King Murray was like that … he responded badly to opiods and to what Dr. Allan considered was a very low dose of enalapril (we had to cut the original dose in half and slowly build up to the original dose).

One thing you need to be aware of with the Ivermectin dose on Barbi Brown’s site is that it is a very high dose. Dr. Allan, who is very conservative, was comfortable trying only half the recommended dose. However, I was discussing e.c. with a friend who is finishing up vet tech school and after her equine studies she told me that she, too (this has been my intuition all along), felt that the very high dose might be the key to this treatment working.

Finally… you can offer echinacea and either goldenseal or oregon grape root to boost the immune system. I have used both in “bulk” form (echinace from Wild Oats and goldenseal from Old Time Herbs online). Astragalus is another herb that boosts the immune system. If you have access to a vet who practices Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), s/he may have some ideas about Chinese Herbs. TCM takes a holistic approach which assesses the entire patient (present symptoms and background) and the environment (including household changes and interactions) to find the “root cause” of the disease. I’ve been reading about TCM during the past month and find it quite fascinating.

 

 

 

[Preston Cooper]

Binkybunny, thank you for your post. I really appreciate your sharing your experiences and have printed it out so as to refer to as I evaluate my boy’s situation.

Kathy, thank you for the responses. All of them. And the support in my reactions. One matter I know for sure ias of right now is that I will begin to add the herbs to his diet.

I feel fortunate to receive such informative feedback.

Despite the results of the test, I do feel fortunate that I have been given the opportunity to look into the situation and prepare for what I may need to do down the road. (Sometimes we don’t get that chance).

I am going to speak to another vet tomorrow who I have worked with over the years, so as to get her responses to his e. cuniculi test results.

Thanks again,
MC

[Preston Cooper]

Kathy,
Do you advise Echinacea root or herb for strenthening the immune system? I am a novice with herbs.

I have since read Kathy Smith’s article at http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/holistic.shtml (sorry no link) which has inspired me to contact an American Holistic Veterinarian as well to discuss treatment optionsi.

Best, MC

[Kathy Smith]

I would go for the herb because it is “cut” whereas the root is powdered. That way you can offer it rather than forcing it.

I am excited that you have decided to also contact a holistic vet!

Kathy

[Preston Cooper]

Thank you!!

[mollydog]

Hello, 

   I have a rabbit with e. cuniculi and my vet had some Ponazuril compounded especially for her.   He had to have it made at a lab because it is not a common treatment for the e. cuniculi.   My question for you is do you remember how your vet supplied it to you?  Was it a brand name and was it a liquid or paste?    Also do you remember the dosage and length of treatment.   The lab label says .48 ml for 60 days and the only thing I have read online regarding dosage was 5 days and in conjunction with 28 days of Fenbendazole as mentioned here:

The length
of treatment with Ponazuril is mentioned here 

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/cuniculi/pyrimethamine.htm

      but
not the amount of the dosage .  After you get on the page it is at the bottom
under    Use of pyrimethamine ? 
:

“ponazuril combined with fenbendazole (5 days and 28 days,
respectively) and have shown more or less successful”

Any information you can supply would be so very helpful.   I know it has been years since your post but I hope you get this. Thank you.

[Author]

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