Sick bunny

[LeahM]

I have a 7yo house bunny named frank jr. something is going on with him but not sure what. He has a very reliable routine of coming when he is called for a banana treat in the morning and evening and on Saturday night he came and took one bite of banana and left the rest. I was immediately very alarmed. He has had gas before and this was the first indication of that. So I paid very close attention for a few hours. I saw him eating some grass, some hay and some pellets so I tried to tell myself it was a fluke. The next morning he came for banana but without much enthusiasm. Normally he comes flying over, buzzing, etc. He ate the banana and continued to pick at food all day. His poop was and still is about 1/2 the size of normal. I called the vet first thing Monday am and took him in. He hasn’t lost any weight (yay) she doesn’t feel anything in his abdomen that was alarming and she she got labs that came back basically normal. She said his teeth are a little long and thinks that’s the problem. She did give me reglan and pain meds just in case and I’ve given That for the last 24 hours.

He is about the same today. Picking at food but refusing his favorites. Normally he is crazy about banana and dandelion flowers but he won’t even touch them. He’s eating quite a bit of fresh grass, cilantro and lemon balm. I also gave him some critical care. I think he’s being a little pickier than yesterday and that the things he’s willing to eat are dwindling. I haven’t seen him eat any hay. His behavior is not super alarming. He is sitting under chairs a lot and kind of hunched but none of the stretching that I’ve seen when his belly hurts from gas. Normally he would have several happy bursts of running, buzzing, and zooming and that hasn’t happened at all. I can absolutely tell that he doesn’t feel good but someone else might not be able to tell.

I’m not convinced it’s his teeth. Why is he refusing his favorite foods? Why is his poop so small? I’m 100% willing to have his teeth done if that’s the problem but general anesthesia terrifies me and the vet admitted that it’s very scary and I’m really not convinced that it’s even the problem. She said general anesthesia is the only option. ?

Any ideas of what else to check? Does refusing his favorite foods sound like it could be dental? I’m so worried we’re going the wrong direction, please help.

[Bunny House]

Are you going to a rabbit savvy vet? Anesthesia risks are no different than of dogs or cats with a rabbit savvy vet. Many buns get dentals every month of their lives.

A rabbit savvy vet would order X-rays to be done because you can’t really feel what is going on inside a bunny as they have very sensitive organs and you can’t push on them or they could perforate. An X-ray is always recommend because buns can have blockages and reglan is a Prokinetic which could rupture the intestines if there is a blockage and no force feeding should be done until an X-ray is done as force feeding can also rupture intestines. Are you giving critical care? Not eating a lot of food for a while can cause fatty liver which can be deadly so it is important that he is force fed to make sure all his nutrients he is getting or he must be eating it all on his own. Fluids is also very important as it’s the most important nutrient. Bunnies need fiber as it keeps their ph down in their gut and prevents bad bacteria from growing out of control so he really needs as much fiber as he can get and no sugary treats as sugar lowers the ph.

He is in pain and bun don’t just stop eating for no reason. Many times it’s molar spurs from not eating enough hay or having an bite that is off, it could be a blockage from molting as it is that time of year to start molting or stress could have stopped him from eating for a bit and then his gi slowed down so now he doesn’t want to eat. I would suggest going to another rabbit savvy vet as this to me is an emergency as things can go downhill within hours of stasis (slow down in the gi which he has)

[LeahM]

This is the most rabbit savvy vet in the area.  It is the only vet that sees “exotics” and she is the only vet clinic in the practice that sees rabbits.  She has never lost a rabbit in anesthesia, personally.  Anyone else would be a 5 hour drive.  We did talk about xrays.  She felt like it wasn’t essential because he is still pooping and eating, although less.  She said he would also need sedation for xrays.  

If I go through with the dental (scheduled for thursday) they want to do an exam and then sedate/give pain meds and I was considering asking for an xray then and if something showed up that was a likely culprit, we could address that then, that way he wouldn’t have to be sedated twice.  And if nothing showed up, they could go ahead with GA for the dental and do that.

I do know that you shouldn’t give motility drugs before ruling out a blockage but he IS still pooping, just less, and he is still eating, less volume and less variety.  I am syringe feeding critical care as a supplement.  I do understand that this may be an “emergency” but I also have to balance that with the fact that he has basically been the same for 3 days now and his gut is still moving.  I absolutely want to get to the bottom of this but I don’t want to go through unnecessary procedures that are just a guess of what might be wrong.

So your rabbits get general anesthesia for dentals monthly?  Or do they just do sedation?  The last time he had GA was 7 years ago and I was TERRIFIED then too.  UGH.  I have such terrible vet anxiety.  I just want to do the right thing 

[Bam]

I can understand your worry – it is scary to not know quite what’s going on, and having any animal or human put under always involve risks. There are good and seasoned rabbit vets that will be confident in ruling out a GI blockage without an x-ray upon general examination and bloodworks – there isn’t a full blockage if the bun is still pooping. Some vets will do an awake x-ray first of all. Did the vet give him sub Q fluids?

It’s really good that you had bloodworks done, it says a lot about a rabbit’s general health. It’s probably the best diagnostic tool there is, because rabbits are so good at hiding whatever is going on with them. A dental rabbit would have normal blood works, with a slight elevation of blood sugar due to the stress of the vet visit.

Dental problems are common in rabbits. It can be due to congenital malformations of the jaws, but that manifests early in the bun’s life. It can be due to an inappropiate diet, ie a diet with not enough hay. But seeing that your bun is 7 and hasn’t had these problems before, this is probably age-related. As we age, our bones get less dense, this also goes for the bones in the skull and jaw. This can cause slight misalignemnt of the jaws, so the teeth are not getting ground down like they should when the rabbit chews.

Forum Leader LittlePuffyTail’s elderbun Bindi had dentals every 2 months, I think. Forum Leader Wick’s Wick had monthly dentals for a long time, but he doesn’t need them as often now. I had a bun that needed burrs every 6-12 months, but he was young so the cause was malformed jaws. The bun does need to be under full anesthesia for a dental burr.

As Bunny House says, it’s really important that you syringe feed your bun while this is going on, so his tummy has fiber to work with. All the things BH suggests could potentially be the cause of this reluctance to eat. Do you see any string-of-bead poop at all? (His poop is small because he’s not eating as much as he should.)

Molar spurs is a such a very common cause that most good rabbits vets would suspect that as the cause if bloodworks come back normal. The spurs can be very small and still cause the bun to go off its food.

Please keep us posted.

[LeahM]

I haven’t seen any string of bead poops. I think it’s possible his poop may be small from low appetite. It just boggles my mind that if he’s not eating because of tooth pain that he would be turning his nose up to his FAVORITES, things that he will normally always eat.
I can’t imagine (and feel so lucky) that he hasn’t had dental problems. I think vets around here are more expensive on average but I’m sure that general anesthesia every 2 months cannot be cheap no matter where you are!
I will keep giving some supplemental critical care but the good thing (I think) is that he is mostly preferring fresh grass (it is a feed grass that I planted) so he is getting good fiber in that.

[LeahM]

oh, and no SQ fluids.  I have a cat who gets daily SQ fluids and I’m a nurse so I’m VERY ready to do that if it would be helpful.  She didn’t mention it though and he’s eating almost exclusively fresh foods and I’m sprinkling them with water.  I’m also making his critical care extra wet.  

[Bunny House]

That’s a good idea to have the vet do an X-ray while he’s under for the dental. And as Bam mentioned, fluids are so important because as you know, dehydration is very severe and if there is a somewhat of a blockage and his intestines don’t have enough fluids, more things can build up to cause a full blockage since there is less moisture to keep things moving.
I say this as I had a bun who passed from a blockage so I am always very adamant about getting everything checked out instead of just thinking it one thing but it’s something more serious, of course if finances allow you to do all the testing to make sure you have your bases covered. And to add, I’ve had very sick buns so I know the scare for anesthia but mine go under it so frequently that we haven’t had any issues, if a CBC come back normal then he should have no issue under. GA as his organs are working properly

[LeahM]

Thanks both of you! I still feel sooo conflicted. He seems slightly better this morning (yay), buzzed a few times, took banana, sitting in more normal places but what does it mean!!?? Is it the reglan? Is it the pain meds? If I think it’s that he did have a motility slow down, then I would be inclined to put off the dental so I can make sure his gut is normal first…. argggggg it’s so hard to know.

[LeahM]

triple post 

You know, I joined this forum when frank jr was a baby, back when facebook groups weren’t a thing.  Now I feel totally incompetent lol.

I’ll try to fix my error by adding some frank pics  

  

[Bam]

He could recover now if this was just a temporary gut slowdown, for example due to starting a spring molt. The reglan and metacam can have helped. You will see when you go off the metacam again – if he starts acting weird again and his appetite goes down, there’s something else at play and his teeth are a likely cause. If he starts declining, dont wait too long until you take him in, it’s important that he is in the best possible condition if he needs to be put under.

So: Keep a close eye on him, try to encourage him to eat hay and drink water. You can keep serving him his fresh greens dripping wet to help him get extra water in him. Grass is excellent!

You definitely dont come across as incompetent one bit ? Its just the normal worry when you have a poorly family member that makes you feel at a loss.

My dental bun went off all his favourites when his teeth bothered him and would only eat fresh willow which he wasn’t normally very fond of.

[LeahM]

Posted By bam on 2/13/2019 12:18 PM

My dental bun went off all his favourites when his teeth bothered him and would only eat fresh willow which he wasn’t normally very fond of.

That is SO encouraging!

I just confirmed his dental for tomorrow at 11:20. I’ll be a total wreck. I’ll probably just sit in the parking lot and cry for 3 hours ? Fingers crossed it goes well and fixes the problem.

I totally agree about having his condition not deteriorate before moving forward. And he is still basically the same after 2 days of reglan and metcam. I will certainly update.

[Bam]

Many, many good dental burr vibes for ((((((Frank jr)))))

Make sure you get a prescription for Metacam for the aftercare. There’s no sensation in the teeth themselves, but the gums can be sore for a few days after a burr, and you of course want him to start eating again asap.

[LeahM]

Pre-op at 11:20, dental at 2:00…  frank jr basically still acting the same today

this picture just popped up this morning.  Such a scruffy little baby.  Happy valentines day

[LeahM]

He’s home! He’s sooo sleepy (and adorable). He was totally limp in my arms on the drive home but when I sat on the floor to hold him he started hopping (wobbly) right away and had a couple bites. He’s still very spaced out. Poor guy. I sure hope this solves it. How many days until I can say he’s probably not sore from the procedure?

[Wick & Fable]

I’m genuinely touched at your care and attention for your rabbit he’s lucky to have you by his side!

From my experience, recovery shouldn’t take too long. I recently learned that the anesthesia and pre/post meds used can affect how long the grogginess lasts. For his most “drugged up” dental with one vet, it took Wick 5-7 hours to get back to normal. More usually it’s up to an hour. As bam stated, he’s been through it a lot though, and he’s young, so those may be factors.

So based on my experience, I’d say anything off still after one to two days would make me concerned. Wick went 48hrs being odd, but his vet told me she burred part of his cheek during the procedure, so it was more sore than usual.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[LeahM]

Well I sure wish I could say he was back to normal this morning but he really is not. Still picky. Poops smaller than ever. I do not think he is dehydrated, he peed a ton last night. I think he got a lot of IV fluid while he was there. He’s still eating. I gave him 1 does of reglan last night. The vet didn’t think I needed to do it at all but I was hoping it would give him a post-op boost now I don’t know if I should give him more or just wait and see. His poop *could* be small from not eating during his time at the vet yesterday and probably didn’t eat a ton last night, as he was still quite sleepy. Agh! I was so relieved and happy yesterday but now my stomach is just in knots again.

[Bam]

It is normal for poop to be small post anesthesia, it always causes a bit of a gut slowdown. When my bun Yohio had had his first burr, it took like 5 days for him to get back to eating normally again. I wasn’t given any painkiller so I had to call and ask for one because he wouldn’t start eating on his own without it. I suppose he had associated chewing with pain for quite a while then (he’d gone three weeks on CC without a vet diagnosis before they finally decided his loss of appetite could be due to molar spurs), so perhaps that was why he was reluctant to eat. He then made a full recovery. He needed a second burr 6 months later, then another one a year later.

It’s good to taper down gut motility drugs, not go cold turkey on them. I quote: “Metoclopramide (a.k.a. Reglan) is a stimulant to the muscle of the GI tract, improving passage and digestion. The gradual weaning off is important to prevent relapse.” https://www.northwoodanimal.com/services/health-conditions-watch

You can keep giving him CC if you like to make sure there’s enough fiber for his intestines to work with.

[LeahM]

Posted By bam on 2/15/2019 12:32 PM

It is normal for poop to be small post anesthesia, it always causes a bit of a gut slowdown. When my bun Yohio had had his first burr, it took like 5 days for him to get back to eating normally again.

Thank you again!  You’re keeping me sane (questionable)!  Not to worry though, I will remain vigilant, lol. 

[LeahM]

My sleepy guy. He’s always happy to be held but never this snuggly, the general anesthesia bonus I guess you could say. This was last night.

[LeahM]

Still very tiny and very very few poops. I’m putting him back on Q8 hour reglan. He got a dose at 3:30 and I’ll give him another around midnight. I also just gave him some simethicone with his pain meds. His tummy feels full but soft. I gave him a tummy massage that he seems to have enjoyed/tolerated. He’s still picking at food. It’s so hard to tell how much he’s getting. A few sprigs of fennel, some basil, sprigs of parsley, cilantro, strawberry leaves, dill, some grass, a few dried rose pedals, dandelion stems (refusing the flowers, typically his favorite) a bit of oregano and he did have his morning bit of banana. He’s grooming right now. He’s been very busy with the grooming between me dripping stuff all over his chin and the anesthesia eye goop that got all over. I like to see him grooming himself. It’s adorable and a bit of reassuring/normalish behavior.

Any advice on how much crital care to give him when he’s still picking at foood? I don’t want to overfill him.

[meridiian]

Others here are better qualified to give medical advice but have been following your posts.

The pics you sent… he is just adorable. 🙂

You wrote: ” I have such terrible vet anxiety. I just want to do the right thing” This is totally understandable even when we know we are doing the right thing. But you have been doing the right thing by him. Hope he recovers quickly!

Sending healing vibes to (((Frank Jr)))

Please keep us posted.

[LeahM]

Thank you meridiian.

Frank jr is… the same today? Maybe a little worse? His poops this morning were much nicer than yesterday’s (which were little shards) but now nothing for hours. This is sometimes his normal (to not poop all day) but he would be making up for it at night. He’s eating less I think. Now he will have a few bits of cilantro and some fennel but not interested in much else. I’ve gave him cc twice and will again. I’m giving him the reglan and simithicone every 8 hours and the pain meds once daily around 7 pm. Sunday is the scariest day too because the vet is closed.

He did come FLYING around the corner for his banana this morning so I was really hoping for a good day.

In other news, I asked for a reglan refill and I asked for it to be called into local pharmacy instead of the vet. They give me 5mg tabs that I divide, dissolve and divide again. They charged me $24 which I thought was a lot but frank was with me and it had already taken FOREVER and I just wanted to get out. They have mischarged me several other times so I was going to ask about it later. It turns out they have a minimum charge for any rx of $24! Even 3 pills that cost 10 cents each! I am so mad. The pharmacy charged me $1 and said they were still making a 1800% profit because reglan is so cheap! At the VERY least I feel like the vet should dispense more than 3 pills if there is a $24 minimum. Ugh.

[LeahM]

Wondering about SQ fluids… should I be starting them? I have LR and supplies. How do you determine the volume (frank is 4.7 lbs) and what ga needle do you all prefer for rabbits?

[meridiian]

Hello

Thank you for the update. Expensive pills!… but you say he is pooping and my bunny prefers to poop mostly at night too so hopefully that is no sign for alarm.

How is his appetite? Is he interested in his treats at least?

Hoping he is on the mend, can take a while.

Stay positive and healing vibes to (((Frank Jnr)))

[Bam]

How is Frank jr today? I dont know what needles it use for sub q but I will alert forum leader LPT to the thread, she gave her bun Bindi sub q fluids daily for a long period so she’ll probably know.

It really customer-unfriendly of your pharmacy to have a minimum fee that’s so high.

[LittlePuffyTail]

This is the needle I used for Bindi who was about 4.5 lbs. 

     

We gave him 60cc fluids daily so it’s safe to do at least that much. However, I remember my vet prescribing more during stasis episodes but, unfortunately, can’t remember what it was. If you do give fluids, make sure to warm it to lukewarm by placing the bag of fluids in a clean sink of warm water. It can be shocking to the system to do sub Q with cold fluids.

 Let me know if you have any more question. Hope your bun is better soon. (((((healing vibes))))

[LeahM]

Posted By LittlePuffyTail on 2/17/2019 12:03 PM

This is the needle I used for Bindi who was about 4.5 lbs. 

     

We gave him 60cc fluids daily so it’s safe to do at least that much. However, I remember my vet prescribing more during stasis episodes but, unfortunately, can’t remember what it was. If you do give fluids, make sure to warm it to lukewarm by placing the bag of fluids in a clean sink of warm water. It can be shocking to the system to do sub Q with cold fluids.

 Let me know if you have any more question. Hope your bun is better soon. (((((healing vibes))))

Thank you SO much!  I’m going to file this away for later because I think…. WE MAY HAVE TURNED THE CORNER!!!!  I cannot even tell you how well I’m going to sleep tonight.  His poop is still not normal sized and he’s still not eating normally but he is eating with so much more vigor, being sassy, exploring, buzzing, etc.  He’s also pooping more numerous and more often.   IT FEELS SO GOOD!!!  Holy smokes.  I’m going to be so productive tomorrow because I can do something other than fret!  

NOW, how to start weaning off of everything.  I still don’t know if the teeth had anything to do with it.  So was it the teeth, was it stasis all along, or GI secondary to teeth??  I’m glad the teeth are done regardless.  

So he’s getting reglan/simithicone Q8 and pain meds Q24.  Should I lower the dose or spread out the timing?  And should I wait until he is more back to normal than he is now, or start weaning anyway?

Thank you everyone, you made me feel so much less hopeless and alone!  I can’t wait to share a picture of some normal, healthy poop (in a few days).  

(((((all of you))))

[Bam]

I’m happy to hear he’s doing better!

As for the meds, I think I’d taper them down by gradually lowering the doses rather than spacing them out. Simethicone can be stopped abruptly though, according to the website that I linked to before:

(“Simethicone (a.k.a. Mylicon drops, found on the human infant care aisle of your grocery store or drug store) helps the passage of gas in the GI tract and therefore helps alleviate cramping and pain. To administer proper dosage, visit your veterinarian to create a regimen for your pet. Abrupt discontinuation is fine.” http://www.northwoodanimal.com/services/health-conditions-watch)

If he keeps improving now, I’d say it was his teeth since his bloodworks were normal from the start of all this. But there is no way of knowing for absolutely sure, of course.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Most of us know the ups and downs of a sick bunny! It’s a roller coaster sometimes, very stressful and exhausting. Hope bun continues to improve!

[meridiian]

This is great news! I’m so happy for you.

He is so gorgeous and sounds like he is a little fighter.

Let us know how things go over the next few days. 🙂

Healing vibes to (((Frank Jnr))) xx

[LeahM]

Ok, so Frank Jr…. same today I think. No big improvement, didn’t run for banana this morning, which is disappointing but when it was delivered to His Highness, he happily received it.

His poop size is much larger (almost normal) but still pointy at one end. There are also still some small poops and poop “flakes” mixed in, which I don’t like, of course.

I gave him a 1/2 dose of reglan for the first time this morning. I’m worried that maybe I should have waited until his poop was 100% normal. Of course this is based on no evidence, just my incessant concern.

All of that aside, my vet office called for an update and they don’t want to refill the reglan without him being seen again. UUUGH. I can take him in, not a huge deal BUT I’m worried that this vet is not on board with a long term stasis plan, if that should be what this turns in to. I had asked her about tapering him before, and she said it was totally unnecessary. And from what it sounds like from the message from the vet, though the tech that makes the phone calls is that she thinks that stasis is not the problem if it’s still going on at this point…. uughhhh

I think I can talk to her, she is reasonable. But can you guys help me with some scientific/veterinary articles about stasis that I might be able to use as back up (without being a jerk, of course) so that she doesn’t think I’m just totally out of left field.

thank you

[Asriel and Bombur]

To be fair, your vet is probably right. If it was stasis he wouldn’t be having almost normal sized poops and he wouldn’t have the energy you described above. He would still be fairly inactive and not eating anything. I think you really should go get his teeth looked at.

[Bunny House]

I’ve skimmed over this so sorry if I ask what was done. Have you done recent blood test to make sure his organs are all working right? Not eating right for a while can cause fatty liver and it can be irreversible if it’s been going on for a while. Have you done xrays lately?

[Bam]

Irregularly shaped poops can be expected for up to two weeks after full anesthesia or a stasis episode. It’s not abnormal in the context.

Medirabbit is a good source, and they say this about metoclopramide (Reglan): “Since the body adapts to the presence of a gut motility drug, and stops producing its own molecules that normally stimulate the GI tract, it is advisable not to stop the administration of gut motility drugs abruptly. If so, the onset of stasis is often observed. Their dose should be decreased daily over a period of a week or more, so that the body can start the production of its own molecules/hormones gradually again.”

I can’t find any scientific study about the tapering down, but Medirabbit is a trusted source.

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/GI_stimulation/metoclopramide.htm 

When my bun Bam was prescribed another gut stimulating drug, ranitidine, for a week, my rabbit-savvy vet didn’t say anything about tapering it down. So I didn’t and Bam was fine, but he didn’t get it for a stasis issue in the first place. 

I found it mentioned on other forums that Dana Krempels, a very well-renowned biologist and rabbit expert, has said to ask the vet about weaning off reglan slowly. I would guess she’s said that on AllExperts, a really useful resource that was abruptly shut down a year or two ago where D Krempels was one of the experts. The info given on that site is no longer accessible. 

[LeahM]

Posted By Asriel and Bombur on 2/19/2019 1:40 PM

To be fair, your vet is probably right. If it was stasis he wouldn’t be having almost normal sized poops and he wouldn’t have the energy you described above. He would still be fairly inactive and not eating anything. I think you really should go get his teeth looked at.

Summary of what has happened:

2/9 Frank started refusing favorite treat and small poop noted

2/10 still eating but very picky

2/11 seen at vet, teeth noted as possible problem, labs sent out, normal bowel sounds, normal exam otherwise, stable weight.  Started on meloxicam and reglan as a precaution.  started supplementing with critical care

2/12 labs came back normal, scheduled dental for 2/14

2/13 still eating some, basically low appetite but stable for several days

2/14 dental trim, continued reglan and pain meds

2/15 skipped reglan at vets advice.  No round poop all day, just very tiny specks and flakes (of poop).  I put him back on Q8H reglan.

2/16 – today He has continued to improve…. slowly.  poop still not normal.  Appetite still not normal.  I only gave 4cc of critical care with meloxicam last night, just to be sure it wasn’t on an empty stomach.  I gave a 1/2 dose of reglan this morning and he hasn’t pooped since.  He is sitting in his sun spot at the top of the stairs which is his normal daytime routine and often he won’t come down all day so while I would like him to leave me some evidence to examine, it’s not really abnormal that he hasn’t pooped yet.

[LeahM]

Posted By Bunny House on 2/19/2019 1:50 PM

I’ve skimmed over this so sorry if I ask what was done. Have you done recent blood test to make sure his organs are all working right? Not eating right for a while can cause fatty liver and it can be irreversible if it’s been going on for a while. Have you done xrays lately?

Labs normal on 2/11

no xrays, vet did not think necessary with normal physical exam and normal labs.  

He is eating, just very picky and without the vigor of his former self.  I have to ask him to eat, instead of the reverse.  I don’t think he went any period of time with anorexia sufficient to cause liver damage, but I do know about that concern.

[LeahM]

Posted By bam on 2/19/2019 2:10 PM

Irregularly shaped poops can be expected for up to two weeks after full anesthesia or a stasis episode. It’s not abnormal in the context.

Medirabbit is a good source, and they say this about metoclopramide (Reglan): “Since the body adapts to the presence of a gut motility drug, and stops producing its own molecules that normally stimulate the GI tract, it is advisable not to stop the administration of gut motility drugs abruptly. If so, the onset of stasis is often observed. Their dose should be decreased daily over a period of a week or more, so that the body can start the production of its own molecules/hormones gradually again.”

I can’t find any scientific study about the tapering down, but Medirabbit is a trusted source.

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/GI_stimulation/metoclopramide.htm 

When my bun Bam was prescribed another gut stimulating drug, ranitidine, for a week, my rabbit-savvy vet didn’t say anything about tapering it down. So I didn’t and Bam was fine, but he didn’t get it for a stasis issue in the first place. 

I found it mentioned on other forums that Dana Krempels, a very well-renowned biologist and rabbit expert, has said to ask the vet about weaning off reglan slowly. I would guess she’s said that on AllExperts, a really useful resource that was abruptly shut down a year or two ago where D Krempels was one of the experts. The info given on that site is no longer accessible. 

thank you

[Bam]

Posted By Stamper on 2/19/2019 2:33 PM

Posted By Asriel and Bombur on 2/19/2019 1:40 PM

To be fair, your vet is probably right. If it was stasis he wouldn’t be having almost normal sized poops and he wouldn’t have the energy you described above. He would still be fairly inactive and not eating anything. I think you really should go get his teeth looked at.

Summary of what has happened:

2/9 Frank started refusing favorite treat and small poop noted

2/10 still eating but very picky

2/11 seen at vet, teeth noted as possible problem, labs sent out, normal bowel sounds, normal exam otherwise, stable weight.  Started on meloxicam and reglan as a precaution.  started supplementing with critical care

2/12 labs came back normal, scheduled dental for 2/14

2/13 still eating some, basically low appetite but stable for several days

2/14 dental trim, continued reglan and pain meds

2/15 skipped reglan at vets advice.  No round poop all day, just very tiny specks and flakes (of poop).  I put him back on Q8H reglan.

2/16 – today He has continued to improve…. slowly.  poop still not normal.  Appetite still not normal.  I only gave 4cc of critical care with meloxicam last night, just to be sure it wasn’t on an empty stomach.  I gave a 1/2 dose of reglan this morning and he hasn’t pooped since.  He is sitting in his sun spot at the top of the stairs which is his normal daytime routine and often he won’t come down all day so while I would like him to leave me some evidence to examine, it’s not really abnormal that he hasn’t pooped yet.

Thank you for this summary! 

[LeahM]

new question:
I’m ordering a refill of meloxicam and wondering if anyone has experience with the brand Meloxidyl vs OstiLox. The former is what I got at the vet, the latter is what I can order on Chewy for 1/2 the price. Frank seems to like the taste of the meloxidyl so if it really is better, I will stick with it. THANKS!

[jerseygirl]

Hi Stamper

I’ve not used ostilox but I do use loxicom. They are all essentially the same thing, it just comes down to marketing.

There are many different names for Metacam in different regions around the world. This depends on who has the manufacturing and/or distribution rights from the owner, Boehringer Ingelheim Vetmedica GmbH. They all have Meloxicam as their main/active ingredient and a vet may give one of these versions that is marketed for another species. http://vgr1.com/metacam/

The oral suspensions should be sweet. Some (like metacam) have a slight honey flavour.
If you find Frank is not so keen on ostilox, you could always make a watery honey mix then draw up a tiny bit of that after you draw his dose. He’ll het a taste of that before the rest of the med goes in.
I think if he like Meloxidyl well enough, you shouldn’t have an issue with ostilox.

Sending Frank some (((vibes)))

[LeahM]

Thanks jerseygirl! I did go ahead and order it. He does have a SERIOUS sweet tooth. I’m a beekeeper and I do a once a year honey extraction and I try to clean up every drop but it gets all over. As soon as that door is cracked open frank will come running from across the house and lick the floor like crazy, finding every drip. I know it’s bad, but it’s awfully cute.

[Meg]

So cool you’re a beekeeper!   

Of course I’m biased by my recent experience, but I think it’s great that his poops are so big now, and it can take time to normalize.  As long as he’s eating and pooping and acting well enough, I’d just stay the course and not bring him in again.  I’m not that experienced, but I think impatience (on my part and my vet’s) have not served my bunny well lately.  

Sending vibes to Frank Jr. for a full recovery very soon! 

[LeahM]

a great day today. today was his first day 100% off reglan. I still gave him pain meds, I want to change things as slowly as possible. I’m still not ready to say he’s back to normal but he was fully stretched out laying in the sun, which I haven’t seen for at least 2 weeks. He’s not sitting under chairs as much and eating much better. I do believe we may have developed some very spoiled eating habits though. He could probably eat 3 store bought bundles of cilantro a day if I let him. I want him eating hay but he’d prefer a bounty of tender leaves and herbs supplied throughout the day. He is eating fresh grass. I ordered some more of the good grass seed, I think maybe I’ll plant it in flats (as well as outside) so he can have a rotating tray of fresh grass to forage. It’s a blend of the following: Orchardgrass, Timothy Grass, Perennial Ryegrass, Annual Ryegrass, Burnet, Red Clover, Martin Fescue, New Zealand White Clover, Chicory, Parsley, Alfalfa, Yellow Sweet Clover, Milk Vetch, Alsike Clover, Plantain, Birdsfoot Trefoil, White Yarrow and Fennel.

He’s munching away right now

[Bam]

It does sound like a great day! Thanks for the update!

Legumes (clover, alfalfa trefoil and vetch) is not recommended for adult rabbits unless they need to gain weight, but I don’t assume he’d be getting huge amounts since you’ll be growing it yourself. I’ve given most of the above mentioned plants to my buns in moderate amounts during summer when they grow wild here. Except fennel, it doesn’t grow wild here so I grow that myself.

The most important part of his diet is grass and hay – that’s what will keep his teeth in check and his tum in order. I do know how difficult it can be to get an unwilling bunny to eat hay, though. I had to go out every day and pick fresh grass for my Bam, Luckily we get very mild winters here. During winter, I snuck out after dark with a flashlight and scissors and cut fresh grass outside a school near here =D

[LeahM]

For sure. All of those are a very small percentage of what’s in the mix. Probably about 2%. It’s almost all grass and the rest just tasty treats. We have mild winters too but I planted good seed 10 years ago and it’s getting to where it’s very small patches of the good stuff. I’m so paranoid about picking grass elsewhere in case it has been sprayed. I live around lots of cattle farms and the grass is gorgeous on some and sometimes I grab a handful but I’ve always been too afraid to actually give it to him.

[LeahM]

I’m watching him eat mouthfuls of grass right now. It’s so great.

[Bam]

Yay for a grass-eating bun! Its lovely to watch and it’s my favourite sound to fall asleep too ?

[Meg]

Yayy!! Keep it up, little bun!

[LeahM]

Posted By bam on 2/24/2019 5:17 PM

Yay for a grass-eating bun! Its lovely to watch and it’s my favourite sound to fall asleep too ?

omg me too.  I sleep so great when I hear munching throughout the night.

[LeahM]

I caught frank flopping yesterday He’s feeling so much better. I’m still weaning him off the cilantro and his poop still has tiny points but otherwise I feel very good. Tomorrow will be 2 weeks since dental surgery.

[Author]

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