A&B Bonding Journal: Finally!

[Asriel and Bombur]

Hi Guys, 

I decided to un-hiatus myself so I can get help with bonding the boys and just keep a journal. So it’s nice to “see” you all again  

First Session –> 7/31 for 1 hour in neutral territory

Bombur was pretty nervous at first. He’s always quite anxious in new surroundings. Asriel was very relaxed the entire session. We started out with both buns ignoring each other. There was a fair bit of humping from Asriel and a little from Bombur. Both were easily discouraged from it after the 5-10 seconds of initial humping. There was no circling or aggression. There were a lot of grooming stand offs, and Asriel is pretty aggressive about ramming his snoot under Bombur, but Bombur took it like a champ. The last 15 minutes of the session were both boys cuddling and grooming themselves. 

Second Session –> 8/1 for 2 hours in neutral territory

The second session began much like the first, but Bombur relaxed more quickly this time around. There was some humping in the beginning, which I dissipated by smooshing them together and petting them both. This resulted in a very relaxed Asriel and an ever calming down Bombur. They stayed smooshed against each other’s faces for about a half hour. Asriel was getting restless and began to explore. When Bombur didn’t follow suit he went back to him and Asriel began some humping. Both buns are rather aggressive humpers and will bite to hold on. Asriel grabbed on a little too hard at one point which made Bombur jump. Once again, I dissipated any tension by smooshing them together. They both relaxed again, until Asriel felt restless and explored more. I noticed Bombur was having trouble with the hardwood in this particular room (whole house is hardwood so he is used to it) so I brought out their baby blanket and laid it out. 

Soon after the baby blanket came out we had almost a whole hour of buns flopped on it and cuddles. They were  taking turns stuffing their snoots under each other, and at one point while my hubs took over for a bathroom break, there was slight humping. But they quickly resolved that and went back to laying next to each other. I ended the session when they both got up and began grooming themselves.  

Questions:

1) The blanket had been sitting around unwashed for a while and didn’t realize it till I laid on it with them. So I’m fairly certain it was covered in both of their scents from months ago. Should this be removed? 

2) I know I’m nowhere near this step yet, but when I move on to semi-neutral, I don’t actually have a semi-neutral space. We rent out two rooms from a family member. So one of the rooms is the room we’re bonding them in and the second one is our bedroom, which they share with us and will become their permanent space. What should I do when I’m ready to do semi-neutral space? 

3) When can should I add a litter box? Just asking because after two hours they seem rather anxious to do their business. 

[LBJ10]

Hello A&B! Nice to see you back!

Hmm… I doubt the blanket matters much at this point, especially if it didn’t seem to influence their behavior at all during the bonding session. With both their scents on it, you might call it semi-neutral.

I assume your bedroom is the neutral space. So they are both in the same room right now in separate enclosures with separate run times? You could try the room outside their enclosures as semi-neutral space, as long as there is plenty of room outside of their enclosures.

Are you wanting to try a “neutral” litter box? Or a litter box with their scents on it? If they have been swapping litter boxes, it might be OK to introduce a litter box and see how they do. Sometimes bunnies get possessive over them, sometimes they don’t. I remember when my boys were first getting to know each other and the litter box didn’t seem to be a big deal to them.

[Gordo and Janice]

A&B I thought you were taking them to a place that did the bonding for you. Did that not happen or did it just not work? Or did you just decide to tackle it on your own?

[Sirius&Luna]

Your bedroom can be semi-neutral, as long as their cages are blocked off. Semi-neutral is space that they’ve both been in, but don’t feel territorial about. I assume since they’ve both had equal time roaming the bedroom, they already know it’s shared. I used my living room (which they all had roamed around every day) as semi neutral

[Asriel and Bombur]

Thanks for the advice guys!  
G&J: The bonder was rather rude and unreliable, so we just decided to do it ourselves. Bombur was also coming off his 4th round of EC meds (poor little guy) so I didn’t want to unnecessarily stress out Bombur. I’m pretty glad I did though because it’s been a pretty great experience so far  

Session 3 –> 8/2 1 hour in neutral territory (could’ve gone for much longer but it was 90 degrees without AC)

             Last night’s session was nothing short of a success! We had the blanket laid out right from the start this time, and both buns were quite eager to springboard off their litter boxes and onto the blanket. The first 5 or so minutes they went in opposite directions and did their own exploring but Asriel (as usual) was excited to go find Bombur. I laid out some hay while they were wandering around together, and that was a welcome addition. They happily munched together off and on throughout the session, even when they were seemingly going for the same strands (no food aggression yay!). Just before they were quite happy to just lay together, Bombur got found the papaya container and grabbed it with his mouth, and dragged it off its usual resting spot. In doing this, the container smacked Az square on the head (it’s pretty light, no injured buns!). I was gloved and prepared to stop a possible fight, but Az took it in stride just went on his merry way. At the 20 minute mark they both decided they just wanted to chill together, so the remaning 40 minutes was just them either laying on each other or next to each other. There was no humping at all this time. Still a little bit of bum sniffing from Az. But there was lots of mirrioring each other’s movements, grooming themselves, flops from both, AND A FULL DEAD FLOP FROM ASRIEL! 

Next Steps:
            I plan to do a pretty long session tonight, as they haven’t shown any aggression towards each other at all. I’m hoping to bring their greens and a litter box into the room and stay with them for 4-6 hours. 

Questions:
            I was potentially thinking about marathoning them tomorrow night into Monday morning, IF tonight’s lengthy session goes as smoothly as these previous sessions have. What are the drawbacks to marathoning them? I just feel like they are so completely used to each other from being together for 1.5 years and have shared everything, and no aggression has been occurring, that it could potentially work. My other question is, how would I go about marathoning them? Do I do it in their permanent space and basically clean and rearrange everything before doing it?

[LBJ10]

I guess they fit the stereotype for Hollands? LOL

Since things are going extremely well, I don’t see any reason not to continue on to the next step. Some bunnies are just an easy bond. I’d say that if things continue to go smoothly, you are already well on your way to having a bonded pair. Perhaps start the marathon in semi-neutral space, as if they were out for their run time. If everything seems good, then you can see how they feel about moving into not-so-neutral territory. I agree it may help to clean everything really well beforehand.

[sarahthegemini]

Seeing these pictures makes me so happy!  

They are definitely what I would call great candidates for a marathon bond! They look so comfortable around each other and they’re happy to share which is such an important milestone. (It’s also great that Az was okay with being bashed on the bead by Bombur ) Soon they’ll be stealing food from each other’s mouths lol. 

My marathon bond technique was a little…unorthodox, so I wouldn’t necessarily reccomend it but I’ll share what I did anyway. I did an initial 4 hour bonding session in totally neutral space, which was a pen in my bedroom. I stopper after the first 4 hours simply because I was tired lol. The next morning, I put them in neutral space again for roughly 8 hours. Then I moved them into semi neutral. Semi neutral was my living room, which was their main space that they’d shared but I vacuumed thoroughly, got rid of their cages, took down the partition and set them up in a pen in the middle. I covered the pen sides with cardboard so they couldn’t see that they were in familiar space but I’m sure they could smell it. I kept them like this for about 20 hours. Then I took down the pen and voila. They were in their new (but old) space to be together I then (with the help of my partner) supervised them 24/7 FOR TWO WEEKS   Peanut was the humper. Buttercup didn’t tolerate being humped, she just ran away. I supervised for two weeks because I wanted to wait til they had established dominance before I left them unattended. On day 5, they had a bit of a scuffle. I believe this was because Peanut tried humping Buttercup in their cardboard castle and I guess she felt a bit trapped. By day 10, Peanut stopped trying to hump. I watched for an extra 4 days because I’m paranoid 

SO, as I said. It was unorthodox but it worked lol. 

With your boys, I would deep clean and rearrange their main living space, and then set them up in a pen to begin with. I don’t think you’ll run into issues regarding territory as they were fine with the blanket but it’s best to be cautious. How long were you thinking/hoping to marathon for? I would definitely recommend doing it til you can see that they’ve established dominance. I’d also avoid putting enclosed boxes and stuff around to begin with – keep things very open. Again, just til they’ve established dominance. You don’t want anybun feeling trapped by the humper. Has anybun tried face humping? Peanut did which was another reason I supervised til humping had ceased. 

[Asriel and Bombur]

So a bit of an update! 

Day 4: We went for 4 hours for this one. I brought a litter box in and I fed them their greens together. There were no issues with greens or the litter box. Both buns were tugging food out of each others mouths and not even caring. We had some slight issues between the 3-4 hour marks, which made me decide to postpone my overnight for another 2 weeks (the next time I have the time to do one). Basically the boys have issues with grooming. Neither boy wants to take the initiative with grooming the other one. There were several grooming stand offs. Once it hit the 3 hour mark, Asriel became frustrated. Whenever he would put his nose in front of Bombur and he ignored, Asriel would decided to mount out of frustration (face and behind). It led to two occasions of chasing, and the second chase led to circling and my poor hand as a casualty to Bombur’s teeth, but at least it wasn’t Asriel, so we weren’t about to have a tornado! After this, both boys went back to their blanket and happily cuddled for the next 15 minutes, when I decided to end on the positive. 

Day 5: This was around 5.5 hours. This was a pretty good session overall. The majority of the time was spent binkying, flopping, cuddling, laying in close proximity, or exploring together. Again, we had some issues around the 3 hour mark with the grooming, so I brought out some coveted banana and put a good smearing on both heads. Asriel was the first to groom the banana off, and Bombur a tad later. Asriel groomed once without coaxing towards the end of the sessions and then both boys spooned for the next half hour, which is how I ended it.

Day 6: I have turned their normal space into semi-neutral by washing a few blankets, and throwing them over the tops of their cages and laying their baby blanket out on the floor then pushing the cages together to see what’s going on. They are doing great for the most part. Sharing the litter box just fine, eating together perfectly, and exploring together happily. BUT we have our humping when not groomed issue, again. Asriel is very insistent on being groomed, and humping Bombur when he doesn’t get his way. I’m almost an hour in, and aside from that things are great. 

Question: what can I possibly do to settle this grooming debate? It seems like it’s going to be problematic in the long run. I’m just a bit confused because during their normal separate run times, Asriel has always been the one to groom Bombur, and quite violently too. Bombur has never once groomed Asriel. I feel like Az set the precedent and now doesn’t want to follow through on it. 

When the humping occurs, I do pull Asriel off and smoosh them together and pet, which I think helps them to continue being amicable toward each other.

Picture of them from last night’s session during our last 30 minutes: 

[sarahthegemini]

Ahh the grooming stand off…I was going to recommend putting fruit juice on their heads at this stage but you’re already doing that with banana I would just continue doing that for a while. My bunnies groomed each other tons when they were first bonded but then after the ‘honeymoon period’ it became a lot more one sided. Peanut barely groomed Buttercup and she was okay with it for a long time but then end of last year they both stopped grooming each other completely. I think Buttercup decided to take a stand
I spent a week doing apple juice on heads and they both got back into the swing of things. I wouldn’t worry about it being a long term issue yet. Also, I think it was Dface who told me that grooming each other releases some sort of endorphin for the groomer so if you help them groom each other to begin with they both might realise it feels good to do the grooming. Even when bonded tho they might still have a few stand offs. Mine do occasionally but all that happens is they’ll both bow down and after a few seconds when they realise nobun is going to ‘give in’ they just bunloaf (maybe they’re trying to style out the rejection?!) and lay/snuggle together.

[Asriel and Bombur]

Day 6 update: WE HAVE ACHIEVED GROOMS! I think Asriel is finally starting to get the hint that Bombur isn’t going to groom, so he started grooming Bombur, and it lasted a solid 10 minutes. Whenever he noticed my phone out he would stop grooming and stare down the camera xD Overall it was a successful session. I only did 2 hours in the new seemi-neutral space just because I didn’t know how they’d react to essentially be in the same space they’ve been sharing for over a year. Nothing really changed. They continued to do almost everything together and follow each other everywhere. In our two hours we only had 3 humping instances, that were quickly dispelled using the smoosh method. We ended the session after both boys had been flopped on each other for a while.

Here’s a link to one of the many grooming videos I took Hubs and I are actually finding sessions a little funny. With us Asriel is very independent and would prefer to explore and come to us occasionally for pets, whereas Bombur is constantly with us and wanting us to love on him and following us everywhere. BUT in bonding sessions, Asriel is very clingy on Bombur and always wants to be with him and binkies around him and flops on him, whereas Bombur’s just kinda like “eh I guess you’re okay and we can chill and eat together”. xD We thought it would be the other way around and Bombur would be all over Az like when we first brought them home.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BmHlVKRlIjX/?hl=en&taken-by=asriel_and_bombur

[Gordo and Janice]

Welp, you sounded like a bunny bonding expert in all your previous posts responding to bonding questions. Now it would appear, via your actual bonding, you are indeed a pro. Congrats on the relatively smooth process to date.

[Asriel and Bombur]

Thanks G&J! I think the biggest thing that helped was just having them side by side for over a year and sharing everything that entire time. I think it helped to make them instantly comfortable with each other. We had them together when we first got them as babies and they were the best of friends. I think it also helps that they’ve experienced a fair bit of stress, so this isn’t super stressful to them. My husband has severe tourette’s with screaming tics, so they’re very much used to loud noises. We’ve moved houses twices, and they’ve been to the vet a good amount (Az for nail trims and Bombur for his EC). So I think in combination it’s not as stressful to them. It also helps that they’re both relatively relaxed personalities

[Sirius&Luna]

Yaaaay, I’m glad it’s still going well! What are your next steps? I’d just keep extending the time

[Asriel and Bombur]

Last night was their second night in “semi-neutral” territory and it went superbly! Session lasted 3.5 hours with so many binkies and dead flops from both bunnies and a few bunny 500’s. No aggression even when they landed on each other. Grooming is entirely one sided. Asriel grooms Bombur whenever they’re cuddling, but when he asks Bombur to reciprocate and he doesn’t, he gives Bombur a little bum nip. And whenever Bombur feels like Az hasn’t groomed enough he gives Az a little bum nip. No aggression comes from it. They both seem startled and go on their merry way. Asriel only tried to hump twice last night, but as soon as I said “Az no.” he looked at me and then started grooming Bombur instead I do get a little nervous when he grooms because it’s the exact same position he gets in to mount. Both boys looked sad when I separated them for bed time which was a little heartbreaking. Sadly, my time only permits me doing 4-5 hour sessions on the weekdays, so that’s what’s going to happen until the 17th, when the hubs and I plan to marathon from Friday night into Monday morning.

[LBJ10]

That’s wonderful! I’m sure they will be ready come the 17th.

[Sirius&Luna]

Excellent! I can’t wait for the marathon!

[Asriel and Bombur]

Just wanted to update!

This week has gone pretty smooth, so nothing to really report. Both buns are now grooming each other happily and doing most things together. I feel pretty comfortable leaving the room for a quick second while they’re out. We’re planning to do a full day of them out in their semi neutral territory on Sunday. We’re still planning on our overnight in a week.

[Poppyhani]

My bonded buns still have grooming debates, it’s quite funny to watch! I think some buns just submit, and other pairs tend to flop around the bush when it comes to who grooms who the most. Loppies are quite affection-seeking buns, so they do want groomed a lot… and having two lops? You know where that’s going.

Good luck on your overnight! The bunny butt duo pics better keep coming!

[Asriel and Bombur]

Nothing totally new to report since the 10th, but I do have a question. So, I may or may not have fallen asleep for an hour or so while the boys were in a session, and the hubs was a sleep   I panicked myself awake and was picturing a mass of fur everywhere or a bunny tornado, but instead I found them cuddling up next to one of the blanketed cages, and Bombur was grooming Asriel. SO, my question is, before I marathon them Friday night into Monday morning, would it be alright to almost do a try out? Like leave them out together while we sleep at night? We’re obviously in the same room, and would be able to hear and feel if anything broke out between them. They resolved their issues from the beginning, as both buns now happily groom each other, and Asriel has stopped trying to hump. He’ll try at the beginning of the session and stops almost immediately. Just wondering if this would be a good idea. 

[Gordo and Janice]

Goosebumps here. Oh the temptation! I would be tempted because I would want it to happen sooner than later. Exciting to almost be there. But the practical side of me says why take the slightest chance in messing up such a wonderful and relatively smooth bonding process. In all sincerity it seems like they are practically there and it wouldn’t be a problem at all. But….. You are so close. The control freak Gordo would say just stick to the plan and don’t take a chance. More laid back Gordo, well…..he’s led us to frustration more than once.

Honestly, and of course I have absolutely no experience with bonding, so speaking here from the peanut gallery, I think it would be fine. Just something to ponder and think about.

Now for the experts to chime in….

[Asriel and Bombur]

Thanks Gordo xD  I think the better half of me wants to do it. The member formerly known as BunNoob thinks I should go for it as well. Maybe for my own sanity I’ll set alarms at hour intervals to check on them. I only sleep like 4-6 hours anyways, so it won’t be too much trouble. 

In the meantime: here’s a photo of breakfast noms from Sunday. my instagram has bunches of videos of them snuggling and kissing @asriel_and_bombur

[sarahthegemini]

Ha! When me and my partner were marathoning P & B, we took it in turns to watch over the buns so in theory there would always be a pair of eyes on them. However, there was one or two (or three..) occasions where the one on watch fell asleep. On one occasion, my partner was on watch and I was upstairs sleeping. I woke up to go to the loo and saw Buttercup bunloafed outside the bedroom door. She’d got past the partition we were using to block the stairs. My partner and Peanut were fast asleep in the living room LOL.

[Asriel and Bombur]

Unfortunately neither one of us is able to take shifts until the weekend. But I think I’m going to go ahead and overnight them tonight and keep the light dimmed and set an alarm for halfway through the night just to check on them. I feel like it would really help to assure me that this weekend is for sure a good idea.

[Nutmeg]

Shifts??? what is this taking in “shifts” thing??? lol My hubby would be like “they are your babies” and go to bed HAHAH
Which makes him sound bad, but he got more worked up and worried than even I did when we took them in for their spay and neuter – so they are just as much his babies lol

I hope my bonding goes just as smoothly – as they have been living side by side and sharing the play area (one at a time) since we took them in Feb. So they are used to eachother that way…. fingers crossed.

And side note, again I’m no expert either hahaha – but I would think and over night would be great right now and I would probably chance it too – although I would probably be to nervous to sleep anyways lol

[Asriel and Bombur]

So a setback occurred after our camp out last night. I had been checking the boys every hour and every time I woke up to check on them they were snuggled up together or laying near each other or grooming each other. About 30 minutes before it was time for me to wake up for work/ end their session I heard a tornado and jolted away. Sure enough, they had just begun a squabble. I was the only casualty in that squabble. I jolted awake as soon as I heard it and I didn’t even think to reach for my gloves. Needless to say I have a massive bite on my left middle finger that hasn’t stopped bleeding in 4 hours because Az latched on and wouldn’t let go. Both buns were fine, and there were no injuries. Bombur did pull a bit of fur from Az (he’s also shedding so not very hard to do right now). Obviously I have no idea what started the squabble as they haven’t show any aggressive behaviors towards each other and Asriel hasn’t really humped him in a few days. So I’m really lost as to what it could’ve been. The only thing I can think of is I turned the light off around 3 and had the nightlight on, which is still bright enough to see. So I don’t know if they spooked each other and didn’t realize who the other one was or they nipped each others bums and didn’t realize it. I don’t know. I have a lot of questions about what happened to cause such an extreme thing.

Now where to go from here? Do I stop sessions for a bit? Do I decrease time in semi neutral? Do I go back to neutral?

[sarahthegemini]

Hmm, that’s tough not knowing what triggered it. If they were happily snuggling and grooming each other up to that point, I would probably opt to continue with long sessions but fully supervised for a while. Such a shame Hopefully it’s just a little set back and whatever it was that caused it, they’ve gotten past it.

[Sirius&Luna]

Ah, that’s tough! But don’t be discouraged. When I was bonding my trio and they had been getting on well for a few days, Atlas suddenly sprayed pee and Luna lunged at Nimbus and it all turned into a nightmare. But, they got back to normal pretty quickly after that, and I didn’t have anymore incidents. When they’re not truly bonded, it’s easy for them to spook each other and overreact. It’s lucky (sorry for you!) that Az got you rather than Bombur.

[Asriel and Bombur]

Thanks guys! So I’ll just keep doing what I’ve been doing and maybe hold off on their big weekend for another couple of weeks. Also forgot to ask! I know you aren’t supposed to end sessions on a negative, but it was 4:30 in the morning and I was tired and not thinking my best, so naturally I just separated them and put them back in their cages. Is this going to cause any animosity when they meet again tonight? A little anxious about that.

[Asriel and Bombur]

So I’ve had them together the last two nights, but cut the sessions back to 2-3 hours. Wednesday they seemed a little apprehensive at first. Asriel sniffed Bombur’s bum in the very beginning, which made Bombur lunge, but putting my gloved hand in the way dissolved it. That’s been the only issue since their scuffle. After they warmed back up to each other there was cuddles and grooms from Asriel. Asriel has tried to hump a few times but as soon as I say his name he stops. It’s been about 2-3 weeks of bonding, so I’m still intrigued that Asriel still feels the need to hump. Yesterday they were back to being buddy buddy and grooming each other.

[DanaNM]

Just tuning into this now aside from what I’ve seen on insta! Since I saw there that you were having issues I wanted to see what was happening!

Might have missed some things, but from the last session it sounds like things are back on track.

Don’t get too discouraged. In my experience, sometimes things get a little testy before they make real progress. It’s like they realize “oh… I actually have to live with this bunny….”.

I personally would not try to marathon in semi-neutral. It has never worked for me. Marathon in completely neutral until you deem them essentially bonded, and then move to semi-neutral.

You also might be intervening a bit too much in terms of trying to get grooming to reciprocate (or maybe you aren’t anymore?). I think I made this mistake with Bertha and Bun Jovi, when really I just needed to let them communicate with each other. If AZ wants grooms, he’ll need to assert himself, and vice versa. At this point the apple juice grooming might be confusing them a bit. But maybe you aren’t doing that anymore, so never mind!

Unless humping is leading to fighting, let it happen. Lunging is OK too, as they are setting boundaries. At this point you prob know the triggers for scuffling, so only intervene when those behaviors start happening (even verbally).

If they seem like they are back tracking in the space you are in, move to a new, completely neutral space. They can build associations with the place they are in, and new place can break that.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Asriel and Bombur]

Thanks Dana

We’ve actually decided to halt bonding for a few more months just until we’re actually able to have enough time to sort out their issues. Basically it’s turned into a mess since their big scuffle. Az will groom Bombur for the longest time, which doesn’t satisfy Bombur, so he nips and a scuffle breaks out. Az will ask for grooms for a while and get frustrated that Bombur isn’t grooming him, so he nips, and a scuffle breaks out. This happens every few minutes. There’s cuddles in between, but they’re so few and far apart now. If they aren’t eating/in the litter box together, they’re usually having a grooming scuffle. We’ve been hands off without encouraging them to groom, just doing a standard smoosh, we’ve been hands on with juice, we’ve shortened sessions, we’ve put them back in neutral territory. It’s all the same outcome.

The plan was to marathon them over labor day weekend, but at this point it seems very unlikely. We’re going to be rarely home on the weekends in September, and then we’ll be away for a week at the end of the month. So at this point it seemed we should just wait until we’re back in October to try to bond them again and work out their issues. In the meantime I plan to give them each a stuffie and swap it every few days. I know Asriel will appreciate it, but Bombur usually ignores it. Az is just an all around sweetheart. He wants to love and give love and be loved. Bombur just wants to take love without giving anything back. Even when their sessions were going smoothly, you could still find Bombur at my hip on the bed the majority of the session, whereas Az was always trying to be with Bombur and just love him. So I’m not really sure what to do because this honestly seems like a Bombur issue and not a them issue.

[Sirius&Luna]

Oh, I’m sorry it’s not going so well anymore! It can be so discouraging

Sometimes a break is better for everyone, human and bunnies! I think with time, Bombur will come round… Some bunnies take forever to groom others – I called the trio bonded when I rarely saw any grooming from Luna, but she does groom both the boys now – it just took her a while to come round to the idea.

I also wonder if Bombur being so attached to you is problematic for the bonding – perhaps a stranger monitoring them would force him to interact with Az more – just a thought to consider!

[Asriel and Bombur]

I was talking to Ellie on discord the other day, and she was wondering the same thing. Because Bombur is so dependent on me with his many issues, so she thinks its causing him to attach himself to me and not feel the need for a friend. She suggested I stop interacting with him so much that way he starts feeling the need for companionship of his own kind. Which I’m okay with doing, but he gets really depressed when you’re not smothering him in attention. I know most people want this in a bunny, and it’s great I’m not complaining by any means, but I do think its causing a lot of issues between them. Az is very much a normal bunny. He likes attention on his terms, and he’d much rather be with Bombur than with us.

I don’t really trust anyone else (that I personally know) to try to bond them because everyone I know takes what I say about bunnies for a grain of salt. The bonder would’ve been perfect if she wasn’t so unreliable. :/

[sarahthegemini]

Hmm. What about covering the sides of the pen with cardbkard to block their view of you and have a friend/relative be the one that’s observing them? I know you don’t trust anyone ele to do it (honestly SAME. When I was bonding, my Mum used to say “just supervise them for 5 minutes and they’ll be fine :-/) but you could still be in the room just out of sight of the boys?

I think it’s good to take a break now, give yourself and the buns time to take it easy and just continue prebonding. The stuffy idea could really work btw. It never worked for mine as they just ignored it but it’s definitely worth a try!

[Nutmeg]

Can I just say – BIG HUGS to you A&B!!
And just to say that I like Sarah’s suggestion, but totally understand by what she says about her mom saying as that is my hubby – he thinks I’m over thinking this whole “Bonding thing” as they are both great bunnies (*facepalm*) But even if its just for the feeding and things.
Maybe a 50/50 compromise… so no snuggles (*cry*) but over seeing some of the bonding?

Good Luck!!

[DanaNM]

I agree that their attachment to you can slow progress, especially when they come to you for comfort. Once they are bonded they will both come back to you.

I also agree that Bombur will come around! At first I was feeling like Bun Jovi was just going to be selfish and never groom Bertha back. But once he was convinced that Bertha was not a threat and was submissive, he started grooming her back. This didn’t happen until about 24 hrs into the marathon, where I had very minimal involvement.

So yes, try your best not to “fix” whatever problem you think they are having, but rather give them a safe space to communicate with each other and establish the terms of their relationship.

A break is no big deal! Best to wait until you won’t feel rushed.

And I think I’ve said this before, but a brand new neutral space can help a lot if they get stuck in a rut in their current neutral space. (A friend’s kitchen or garage, for example).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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