Bonding a male to a male/female pair

[BinkyMike]

Hi All

I’m new to the site and am just after a little bit of advice with regards to bonding a trio.

Last Thursday I adopted a new male called Peter (changed from Bertie as he looks so much like the one from the film).  He is in a cage in a separate room to my bonded Male/Female pair (Morrison and Ruby).  

Morrison and Ruby are both neutered and I bonded them in December when I adopted Ruby (and had her spayed) with very little trouble, just some humping here and there and a little chasing for a time.  Now they are very close.

I have Peter booked in to be neutered this coming Thursday and once he has healed and recovered I plan on introducing them properly.  Morrison did run into the room when Peter was in his cage and tried to have a little nip through the bars but that is the only contact so far.  Ruby hasn’t seen him but knows he is in the house but is all very chilled.  I think Morrison could smell Peter on me (Peter sprayed) and started to act up a little but soon settled down.  

Peter seems to be very curious an quite gentle and once he has healed I plan on putting his cage in the same room as the existing pair, around 10 inches away and will slowly decrease the distance over time before introducing them face-to-face once they seem a little more relaxed.

Has anybody had any experience of a similar situation and what time-scale do you think that I would be looking at with regards to the bonding?  

Thanks

Mike

[Sirius&Luna]

Ooh, we seem to be getting a lot of trios here at the moment. I’m currently bonding a 2 male one female trio – I started off with a male/female pair, but the new bun split them – linking to a thread where I literally just typed more details so I don’t have to type it out again. Splitting your existing pair is a risk to be aware of.

https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/166005/Default.aspx

Time scales, once he’s neutered you need to give a month for his hormones to drain, and you can spend that month ‘prebonding’, so swapping them all between cages. Then you can start the actual bonding in neutral space.

My bonding is going slowww, I anticipate at least another month before mine are bonded. I’ve been prebonding since Jan, and started bonding sessions about a month ago, but haven’t been very consistent.

My thread on it below:
https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/165467/Default.aspx

[Sirius&Luna]

Some other threads about trios:

https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/161726/Default.aspx

https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/162279/Default.aspx

https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/10722/Default.aspx

Some people bond in pairs first, then all three, or some people always work with all three.

[BinkyMike]

Hi Sirius&Luna

Thank you so much for your help.  I’ll have a read of those

Yes I know it’s a bit of a risk that the original bonded pair could break but they seem happy 99% of the time.  Although I let Peter out in the bathroom last night – poo absolutely everywhere, and urine spray to contend with  .  Once i’d cleaned up Peter’s very thoughtful gifts I went to clean Morrison and Ruby’s cage.  Morrison chased Ruby for a few seconds and then settled down a bit but then attacked the dustpan and brush that I had been cleaning up with…obviously it still had Peter’s scent on it.   They were both happy and grooming again within a few minutes so i’m hopeful that their bond won’t be broken but you never know.

Do you think that Morrison is being aggressive due to the fact that Peter hasn’t yet been neutered and that this behavior may calm down once Peter has been fixed?  

My idea is to move Peter’s cage into the same room as Morrison and Ruby about 4 days after he has been neutered and monitor the behavior for a few weeks and once they seem calm and are used to each other i’ll try a face-to-face meet.  Does this sound plausible?

Once again, thanks so much for your help.

Mike

[Sirius&Luna]

The fact that Peter hasn’t been neutered is probably making all bunnies more aggressive, as they all feed off each others hormones. Oh, and poop and pee everywhere is normal – they’re all marking territory to claim it as theirs. It’s a nightmare! I sweep up about 10 times a day.

I have to say chasing is not a good sign for the original pair though – mine started like that, until it escalated to the point where I had to separate them. You need to keep a close eye on that. Ideally, a strong bond wouldn’t be affected by another bunny at all, so even small or short periods of aggression are something to be monitored carefully.

I would give Peter a week to recover from the neuter, then move them into the same room, and start swapping them between cages. This is when you need to be most careful with your original pair too. I would swap them between each others cages every other day for a month, then hopefully you’ll be ready to try the face to face meetings.

[BinkyMike]

Thank You

Yeah, they certainly love marking their territory, Morrison won’t stop marking in his cage so i’m having to sweep it up and put it in the litter tray.  It’s the spraying that’s worse but once Peter has been neutered it will hopefully stop.

It did worry me slightly but once he had calmed down literally within a few seconds they were back to normal.  He may not have been chasing her but instead he could have just been getting over-excited about the presence of another rabbit being around but i’ll certainly keep an eye on them.

That sounds like a good plan, the only thing is that Peter’s cage isn’t the biggest and is only a temporary home, the other two would be quite cramped in there as they are used to a large pen but I could swap over their litter trays, food and drink bowls and toys…would that have a similar effect?  If it doesn’t work out then I will be upgrading Peter’s home and perhaps get him spayed female for company in the future.

Any idea how long the territory-poops will be going on for? lol

Thanks 

[Sirius&Luna]

Swapping items does help, but they still retain a space that is theirs, so it really is best to swap them between spaces. I also think it’s worth investing in more space for Peter anyway, as you’re at least 2 months (if bonding goes smoothly, longer if they’re difficult) away from them being bonded. An easy fix is buying an Xpen (I got a small animal play pen from Argos for about £20), which you could attach to the front of his cage to give more space. Then you could swap them without worrying about space.

Territory poops….are going to happen until they’re bonded I’m afraid. Sweeping them and putting them in the litterbox is largely pointless too, as it’s not a lack of litter training, it’s deliberate marking behaviour, so usual litter training tactics won’t really work.

[BinkyMike]

Thanks for all of the tips.

Just an update, I had him neutered 3 weeks ago and moved him into the same room as the bonded pair a few days ago. Gradually moving the enclosures closer together. I have purchased some c&c grids and have expanded Peter’s enclosure with a view to building a large condo to eventually accommodate all 3…hopefully!!

Ruby seems pretty chilled and when I let them out she tries to put her nose up to Peter’s cage and there is no aggression between them. Morrison on the other hand has started to attemp to bite or nip through the cage bars and seems very protective of his territory. He seems ok that they are in the same room and gets on with his bunny business as usual but once either him or Peter are let out then he becomes fairly aggressive.
I haven’t tried swapping them around in their enclosures yet but may do that this weekend and am hoping that Morrison calms down soon after a few weeks of Peter being in the same room. Peter seems relatively chilled but I don’t want him to become scared.

I am not going to start bonding them face-to-face until Morrison has calmed down but if he does then where would you say the best place to start the process would be.  I’ve heard the bathtub is a good place, or alternatively I could set up a small pen in the kitchen (where they never really go) and I have heard that ‘Micro-space’ bonding is fairly successful.  Would I be best bonding them one-on-one or all together?

Thank you

[Sirius&Luna]

You don’t really want to be moving them closer together, they should never be allowed to touch through the bars at this stage, as they can give nasty bites through bars.

It’s good that the pair haven’t been aggressive to each other at least.

Anywhere nuetral is fine, but it’s best to start small. One of my bunnies HATES the bathtub, so that has never worked for us, but it’s successful for a lot of people.

One-on-one or all together is up to you really. You might want to test out the dynamics between pairs, then try the trio once you know who will be problematic or not. Or you can just go straight for the trio and see how that works. I tried various pairs, established who the problem bunny would be, then put them together as a trio, and knew which bun I needed to watch most carefully.

[BinkyMike]

Thank you, oh no I don’t let them get through the bars as the cages are about 10 inches apart and it’s only when I let them out that Morrison tries to nip him…although I ensure that there is protection infront of the cages so that they can’t get through…I think he will be the problem bunny. What do you think about introducing the two boys together first? Perhaps having Ruby there may antagonise the boys a little and once they seem comfortable I can introduce Ruby. I’ll see how it goes over the next couple of weeks and try to gauge the dynamic

[BinkyMike]

Thank you, oh no I don’t let them get through the bars as the cages are about 10 inches apart and it’s only when I let them out that Morrison tries to nip him…although I ensure that there is protection infront of the cages so that they can’t get through…I think he will be the problem bunny. What do you think about introducing the two boys together first? Perhaps having Ruby there may antagonise the boys a little and once they seem comfortable I can introduce Ruby. I’ll see how it goes over the next couple of weeks and try to gauge the dynamic

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