Peanut’s behaviour towards Buttercup

[sarahthegemini]

Hi guys, my thread today is about Peanut! More specifically, his behaviour towards Buttercup. He has been getting a little…cheekier shall we say lately. With me and Buttercup – he digs at me if I’m in his way more often now which I find highly amusing, he also tried to ninja steal a tissue out of my pocket  Towards Buttercup tho, he is really pushing his luck. He doesn’t groom her much anymore yet want to be groomed quite a lot. Sometimes she’ll oblige, other times she’ll ignore him. He has tried humping her a few times over the last week or two which is quite unusual for him. I thought it might be after my mum deep cleaned the bathroom (which the buns don’t have access too, but it’s just across the hallway from them) but he also ran around in circles and had a wagging tail so it’s probably him being a bit excited! He tried it this morning and Buttercup just sort of jumped out the way and did the ‘kicking dirt in your face’ thing.

He’s never been a nipper but today he has nipped Buttercup a few times. First he nipped her this afternoon when they were eating from the hay pile, she just moved out of the way and that was that. I think she was possibly standing on a particularly tasty piece?! Then when I got their bedtime treat out, he nipped her a few times again. Then I got the hay box down to top up their pile which is always exciting for them – they both run in circles around my feet but Peanut nipped her again twice to the point Buttercup actually jumped out the way. Once they were at their hay pile, they were happy as can be.

It seems he’s getting cheekier and cheekier. I think the humping does bother Buttercup but she doesn’t usually hold a grudge – after the humping, she often lays down next to him for example. The nipping tho is totally new, I think she was confused by it. 

There’s nothing new in their environment that I can think of and both buns got a clean bill of health a month ago. Only other issue is both seem to have lost their litter habits. Both leave piles of poop in the trays but also around them. 

Can anyone shed light on this?

[Sirius&Luna]

Bunnies do like to make everything difficult don’t they!

I think you mentioned your mum having dogs, didn’t you? I wonder if it could be the smell of dogs that’s disrupting their bond slightly. The poops makes it sound territorial too.

Luna and Atlas have been having the same sort of issues (Luna being the Peanut in this situation), but I know that’s because I foolishly brought another bun into the house. I bought a Pet Remedy calming plug in, hoping that it would a. calm her down, or b. at least disguise the smell of another bunny a bit. To be honest it doesn’t seem to have had much effect, other than me thinking it smells vile.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Sirius&Luna on 12/18/2017 5:13 AM

Bunnies do like to make everything difficult don’t they!

I think you mentioned your mum having dogs, didn’t you? I wonder if it could be the smell of dogs that’s disrupting their bond slightly. The poops makes it sound territorial too.

Luna and Atlas have been having the same sort of issues (Luna being the Peanut in this situation), but I know that’s because I foolishly brought another bun into the house. I bought a Pet Remedy calming plug in, hoping that it would a. calm her down, or b. at least disguise the smell of another bunny a bit. To be honest it doesn’t seem to have had much effect, other than me thinking it smells vile.

Yeah my mum has a German shepherd but she’s not allowed upstairs (we have gates blocking her from getting to the buns, honestly the house is like an obstacle course ) My mum’s other GSD was euthanized a couple of months ago and I think  Violet might be suffering a bit of seperation anxiety as she whines a lot more. I wonder if hearing that has set the buns off?

I’ve no idea what to do. Do you think stressing them would help? I thought about getting them into the carrier together and vacuuming around it as both get a little on edge with the hoover out, Peanut more so. 

The litter problems are just getting worse too. Tons of poop piles all around the perimeter of the litter boxes. I keep picking the poops up and putting them in the tray. Peanut pees in a particular corner once a day too but if I move the litter box he just pees elsewhere lol. So far I’ve only caught him before he actually pees on two occasions and I’ve managed to pat his little bum and herd him to the box. He looks a bit confused but then does proceed to pee in the box so that’s something. He’s not totally against it 

[Sirius&Luna]

I’m not sure, I’m at a bit of a loss myself! I moved Atlas and Luna back to the bathroom this weekend (the neutral space where I bonded them, so probably not really that neutral anymore), and Luna’s behaviour has improved a lot. It could be worth stressing or trying some neutral space? There’s certainly no harm in it that I can see!

It would be good if you could get to the root of the problem – can you tell if it’s when Violet is whining that sets Peanut off?

For the litter training, maybe you need to go back to basics and confine them to a small part of the room and gradually open it up again. But then if its a territorial thing that won’t work.

Why are bunnies so difficult!

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Sirius&Luna on 12/18/2017 5:49 AM

I’m not sure, I’m at a bit of a loss myself! I moved Atlas and Luna back to the bathroom this weekend (the neutral space where I bonded them, so probably not really that neutral anymore), and Luna’s behaviour has improved a lot. It could be worth stressing or trying some neutral space? There’s certainly no harm in it that I can see!

It would be good if you could get to the root of the problem – can you tell if it’s when Violet is whining that sets Peanut off?

For the litter training, maybe you need to go back to basics and confine them to a small part of the room and gradually open it up again. But then if its a territorial thing that won’t work.

Why are bunnies so difficult!

I think I’ll give the stressing a go, unfortunately I’ve got no space in the house that would be safe for them that’s also neutral. I need to hoover anyway – Buttercup is moulting so bad! 

I don’t think Peanut acts up when Violet whines necessarily, it’s just the only thing I could think of! Unless it’s just a case of Peanut gaining more confidence? His personality is definitely still blossoming. Much to Buttercup’s dismay lol. I thought about limiting space for the litter habits but as they’re actually just pooping around the litter trays, I’m not sure it’d have an impact. I am thinking of trying an underbed storage box as a litter tray instead of their cat litter trays. I just worry that they won’t be able to jump in – I know rabbits have fantastic strength in their back legs but mine seem to forget they can jump 

[Deleted User]

Maybe Peanut has a case of seven year itch! (a term used to describe a decline in happiness in a marriage after x number of years)

All kidding aside, perhaps it would do them well to have some stress bonding. Maybe Peanut is hunting for some attention and Buttercup wont give, so he’s trying to drop hints that he’s lonely

I love that she is so unimpressed with his mounting attempts

[Sirius&Luna]

I have an under the bed storage box, with the two cat litter trays in the middle and hay at each end. It used to work really well with Sirius and Luna, but Atlas is so tiny he just sits and pees in the hay gaps

Your two are about Luna sized though, so I reckon its worth a try. Tiny Atlas can easily hop in and out. You could always add a conveniently placed box step

[sarahthegemini]

I did a quick stress session. Put them in their carrier and hoovered and surprisingly Buttercup wasn’t too bothered lol. They did lay together afterwards (after they showed their anger at us) lol. Hopefully that’s brought the romance back

Do you reckon one session would be enough or should I do a session each day for a while? 

 

I’ll give the storage box a try then. Perhaps I can fashion one of their log tunnels as a step!

[Fluffykins]

Sorry can’t help but love the idea of buns needing their romance rekindled LOL

They are more and more, just like us huh?!

Send them off on a second honeymoon Sarah, see if that doesn’t start the spark again

[Dface]

Bonded pairs go through flips in dominance sometimes, which might be what you are seeing here. Mine used to switch depending on the house we were in.

[sarahthegemini]

I definitely think Peanut is wanting to be top bun and tbh I think Buttercup is happy either way so long as she doesn’t get mounted lol. I’m just surprised with the sudden nipping as it’s so unlike him. He has always been excitable tho and it seems once I’ve put the hay down and/or given them their treat, he stops all nipping and is happy to just munch.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Fluffykins on 12/18/2017 12:37 PM

Sorry can’t help but love the idea of buns needing their romance rekindled LOL

They are more and more, just like us huh?!

Send them off on a second honeymoon Sarah, see if that doesn’t start the spark again

I’m tempted to give them weekly couples counciling 

[sarahthegemini]

Well since their stress session yesterday, I’ve only seen Peanut nip Buttercup once and that was when I was topping up the hay. He did try humping her a little while ago tho, he mounted her face and she just accepted it then he tried for her rear and she hopped away. They laid together afterwards. Confusing bunnies.

[Luna]

Maybe one more stress session for good measure?

[sarahthegemini]

I’m planning on trying some juice on top of heir heads tomorrow so perhaps I’ll do a stress session afterwards. It’s definitely a switch in dominance, both buns ask for grooming and both are mainly ignoring the other’s request.

[sarahthegemini]

Thought we had a breakthrough yesterday – did a stress bonding session, put juice on both bun’s heads and there was lots of grooming (not just on the juice parts!) Lots of snuggling and flopping together. And no excitable food nipping. This morning there was a little grooming too but Peanut has just nipped Buttercup when waiting for the dandelion and then few times whilst waiting for pellets :-/ Got a little fur but Buttercup is moulting so I’m not surprised. Time for another stress session :-/

[sarahthegemini]

Oh and he cheekily asked for grooms after nipping her to which she hopped away. Don’t blame her! She’s happy to groom him when he’s not being a pain in the butt.

[Deleted User]

He sounds like he’s being how Quincy was toward the end of our *failed* bonding… (Obviously not as severe as Quincy was) but he just kept picking fights and would demand all the grooms in the world and not want to oblige with Ophelia’s request. Sometimes I wonder if this is a typical boy attitude… LOL!

[sarahthegemini]

He’s groomed her now It was quite interesting actually, once we let them out the carrier, Peanut ran to groom himself (lol) and Buttercup immediately asked for grooms. He didn’t oblige so she just bun loafed/snuggled against him whilst he gave himself a thorough clean. He groomed her a little while later. I think he’s pushing his luck but I don’t think he’s malicious with his nipping. I think it’s more “I’m excited, I want food, get out the way!” I’m going to firmly say NO when he does it and try and stop it just so he doesn’t annoy Buttercup. She puts up with so much lol. When the food is down he is happy to share. And Buttercup doesn’t seem stressed. I mean, she hops away and looks a little annoyed but she is happy to snuggle him after they’ve finished eating.

[Deleted User]

She’s trying to be a good partner, what a sweetheart! I hope he settles down soon!

[sarahthegemini]

She’s always been very tolerant of his little ‘quirks’ She really is a sweet girlie 

[DanaNM]

Oh Peanut, what a rascal!

Just catching up on this thread now, but it sounds a lot like some little hiccups that Bertha and Moose had, and I did exactly what you are doing, “couples therapy”: stressing + banana on heads to encourage grooming. I did banana on the head every night for a week at one point and it seemed to completely solve the problem. Some car rides in the carrier also helped.

I do think the dog (even the smell of her) could have something to do with it all in your case, if that’s the only thing that’s changed in their environment.

I also did find that all of this was happening while Moose’s teeth were taking a turn for the worst (he was less willing to groom Bertha, and would ask for grooms a lot more, and box habits went out the window), so I would be doubly sure that Peanut isn’t having a medical issue that is underlying (could also have something to do with his fluctuating poop size)? I see he just had a checkup, but maybe it could even be a deep molar issue?

Moose also got way more agro over veggies and pellets, I think in part because he was eating less hay… so yeah.

Of course I’m only basing this off what just happened with us, so who knows, but it does sound very similar….!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[sarahthegemini]

Peanut nipped at Buttercup again a few times when waiting for pellets. The little monster  I firmly said NO and put my finger on his head so he knew I was talking to him lol. I might try making a noise even time he does it, see if I can teach him that it’s not acceptable. I’m trying to think objectively, here are all the good signs of them being a happy pair:

-Often bun loaf together, flop together or very close to one another and often snuggle up to each other 

-Groom themselves

-Drink from same water bowl at the same time

-No nipping during eating (obviously the issue is Peanut nipping in anticipation of pellets and dandelion but no nipping when they’re actually nomming) Happy to share plate of veggies, eat pellets from my hands, eat treats together, share their hay pile, play ‘find the dandelion’ together, share toys stuffed with hay altho Peanut sometimes runs off with them lol but if Buttercup follows him, they just share in the new spot

Signs I’m concerned about:

-Very little grooming now of each other. Any grooming is usually Buttercup grooming Peanut 

-Poop piles near the litter trays

-Peanut nipping Buttercup in anticipation of pellets

There’s definitely more good signs than bad. I’m going to try the apple juice on the heads again daily for a few days. I’m hoping it will get us over this little slump. Do you think it might also be worth limiting their space a little? I’d feel awful but would that be beneficial? 

Do you think it’s worth me trying to teach Peanut that nipping is not acceptable? I’m unsure because nipping is obviously a part of their communication so should I intervene with that at all? I definitely think it’s because he’s excited as he honks a little too (defo NOT grunting) It’s the same honk he makes when he’s feeling a bit frisky!

I definitely think the lack of grooming is an issue. It seems Buttercup is happy to groom so long as Peanut returns the favour at least a little but he is so greedy with it that he barely ever obliges and then I think she thinks “well I’m not grooming you!” and thus Peanut tries to then assert his dominance (maybe that’s why he has tried mounting previously?) So if I could just get him to be a little more generous, I think everything else will fall into place.

[DanaNM]

Hmmm, certainly is perplexing.

I think a larger question is how does Buttercup react to the nipping? It does sound like they are going through a little dominance shake-up, especially with the poop war happening. Rabbits do nip to communicate, so I think that if it’s bothering her, then she actually needs to be the one to teach Peanut it’s not OK, rather than you.

What does she do? If she just hops out of the way, then it doesn’t seem like she’s too bothered by it. Bertha will nip Moose when he’s in her litter box or in her way some how, and it’s her way of saying, “hey, move over!”. He just moves out of the way. Moose will nip my bum (!) when he’s begging for treats… little rascal…

I think I would be concerned if Buttercup turned to face him, or nipped back, or reacted in some other aggressive way. I think you said there were some dirt flicks? That prob falls somewhere in the middle… Like, “OK, I’ll move, but I’m not happy about it.”

I still have a hunch that the dog in the area is setting them on high alert. I think that any smell that would make them more fearful would tend to make them less trusting in their bond. If Peanut is feeling concerned about the dog, he might not be relaxed enough to feel safe grooming Buttercup, and might feel like he needs to be defensive of their territory.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By DanaNM on 12/22/2017 11:30 AM

Hmmm, certainly is perplexing.

I think a larger question is how does Buttercup react to the nipping? It does sound like they are going through a little dominance shake-up, especially with the poop war happening. Rabbits do nip to communicate, so I think that if it’s bothering her, then she actually needs to be the one to teach Peanut it’s not OK, rather than you.

What does she do? If she just hops out of the way, then it doesn’t seem like she’s too bothered by it. Bertha will nip Moose when he’s in her litter box or in her way some how, and it’s her way of saying, “hey, move over!”. He just moves out of the way. Moose will nip my bum (!) when he’s begging for treats… little rascal…

I think I would be concerned if Buttercup turned to face him, or nipped back, or reacted in some other aggressive way. I think you said there were some dirt flicks? That prob falls somewhere in the middle… Like, “OK, I’ll move, but I’m not happy about it.”

I still have a hunch that the dog in the area is setting them on high alert. I think that any smell that would make them more fearful would tend to make them less trusting in their bond. If Peanut is feeling concerned about the dog, he might not be relaxed enough to feel safe grooming Buttercup, and might feel like he needs to be defensive of their territory.

Interestingly, I annoyed Buttercup earlier trying to groom her (lol) and she hopped away to be right next to Peanut. She then groomed herself and groomed him a little too. I guess that means she still finds comfort with him?

I think the nips annoy her for sure but she doesn’t hold it against him so to speak. Whenever he nips, usually she either hops out of the way or she hops and foot flicks a little. Nothing more than that though which is a good sign I suppose. 

What do you think I could do about the dog scent? It’s interesting that you say he might not feel safe because he actually flops a lot which I thought meant he felt very safe doing so? It’s very confusing  I’m going to do apple juice on their heads every day over Xmas weekend and then go from there. I’m hoping it’ll really help solidify things again. 

[DanaNM]

Man, that is all very confusing!

I’m really not sure about the dog… I wonder if you could test it, so to speak, by giving them a towel or blanket with the dog scent on it and see how they react?

I wouldn’t want to make matters worse, but I’m wondering if they might become more used to the scent if they can sniff it directly on a “safe” object. Kinda like pre-bonding?

If they get really agitated and nippy, then you also would have your answer.

I really don’t know though!

Since Buttercup doesn’t seem super phased by it all, I think your strategy sounds good (kinda of a wait-and-see + a little bond strengthening approach). If the nips were leading to chasing or anything like that I would take a more aggressive approach (reduce their space, stressing, etc).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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