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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A How long did your bunny need Metacam after molar spur trim?

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    • Dee
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        I just had to get more meloxicam for Luke. He seems to be most comfy at night, about 12 hours after his dose of meloxicam. Tonight, he is not feeling great and I think its because we ran out of his meloxicam- I only had 0.3ml to give him, and I usually give him about 0.8ml. That is about 0.6mg/kg which is on the higher side but I’ve read that many vets underdose with meloxicam, and that it can be given at up to 1.5mg/kg (which I would never do without vet instructions).

        Anyway, I just came up with another question too! I just noticed that my vet put to give Luke 0.1ml of meloxicam once daily. 0.1ml! The meloxicam is the usual 1.5mg/ml strength so that would be about 0.15mg if I’m correct. I’m going to call tomorrow to check, but I wonder if it’s a mistake. Even my less rabbit savvy vet gave Luke 0.6ml of meloxicam. Maybe he thinks that Luke doesn’t need it but that I won’t leave him alone until he gets it lol. So he just prescribed a teensy dose ?. I’m kind of joking but not a bad idea, if Luke really didn’t need it!

        So that’s question #1- has anyone heard of a 0.1ml meloxicam dose for a 2kg bunny.

        Question #2 is how long did everyone’s rabbits need pain meds after their molar trim? Just trying to see if this is to be expected!

        Again, I apologize for all the questions, and truly appreciate any answers! ☺


      • Wick & Fable
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          Wick’s meloxicam dosage is 1.5mg/ml, and he’s 1kg, so what you’ve stated does seem like a small dose. However the dosing instruction seems different. Yours explicitly stated once per day, while Wick is always “if he needs it”, with the knowledge that historically Wick never needs pain medication because while he gets ill easily, he’s surprisingly resilient. The build up of doing it everyday may have equivalent effects, but unsure.

          Wick did not need any post op care for his first two molar trimmings. The latest one he did, but that was because it irritated a tooth infection we didn’t know about, so it was pain from that, rather than the grinding, so I don’t count that. Rabbits can react differently and have different tolerances, and also during the procedure, the rabbit’s jaw is open quite wide for over 10mins, so if this is your rabbit’s first time and he’s slightly older (if I remember correctly), he may be reacting more negatively because he’s not used to that. Wick has had three but he’s only one, so he’s very used to it and his bone structure is still a bit malleable in the beginning, I imagine.

          The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


        • jerseygirl
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            He seems to be most comfy at night, about 12 hours after his dose of meloxicam.

            This actually makes me wonder if perhaps he is a bit sensitive to the meloxicam? Because after 12 hrs, he wouldn’t have much in his bloodstream by then.
            Hard to say! Had you seen him more comfortable a shorter time after a dose at any time?

            Tonight, he is not feeling great and I think its because we ran out of his meloxicam- I only had 0.3ml to give him, and I usually give him about 0.8ml.

            What is he acting like? Did you notice it before you gave the 0.3mls? Is he eating solid foods now?

            The meloxicam dosing issue is a really confusing one for us owners. There were studies done showing rabbits could tolerate higher doses then cats and dogs and a dose of 0.5mg/kg recommended after surgery like a spay. But maitanence doses (when on it longer) would be lower. Medirabbit still quotes 0.1-0.2 mg/kg. Im not certain if current formularies that vets would reference show that range.
            There are rabbit savvy vets who start doses in this range. Frances Harcourt-Brown (author of original textbook of rabbit medicine) was one of those vets, I believe. I think she was quoted as saying “why take 4-6 panadol when 2 will do the job?” or something like that. In reference to the newer dosing ranges suggested. So, In essence, the thinking on that is lower range will provide adequete relief (depending on the case, I think). But it is shown it is safe to increase doses from there. That’s my take on it anyway.

            The 0.1ml that Luke is prescribed is 0.075mg/kg – so yes, that does seems pretty low.

            I also think the underdosing is when the rabbits are given the cat strength meloxicam (0.5mg/ml) and given 0.1-0.2mls of that. Then you’re looking at only 0.05mg per kg. From my sketchy memory, both Maple and Jersey were dosed this low (0.5-0.1mg). Maple during head-tilt and Jersey after dental trim. I wish I knew to ask for higher dose at the time. Or maybe it was enough for them…It’s so confusing.
            Jersey wasn’t even given take home meds after her spay. Im thinking she must have had at least a long-acting analgesic shot before discharge. Otherwise she would not have fared so well. She was bopping around looking for food at 5am the next day.


          • jerseygirl
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              Rabbits can react differently and have different tolerances

              Yes, very much so.


            • Dee
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                Hi Wick and Jerseygirl, thanks for your replies ☺. I thought I answered you both last night but I must not have pressed “submit”. I’m so tired I’m falling asleep as soon as I sit down.

                Wick, Luke is about 3 so yes, a bit older than Wick. I never thought about nine structure being more malleable but it does sound like it would be a factor. And I have never had a PRN dose of meloxicam prescribed for a bunny, so maybe the set dose would be lower. I wish there was a book that would give every rabbit med, reason prescribed, side effects, dose range. and contrandictions. Wick sounds like a tough little guy! And only 1 kg, so tiny! ?

                Jerseygirl, last night Luke was hiding and refusing greens for the most part, so I assumed he was in pain, esp since he only had a 0.3ml dose of meloxicam. But then he perked up and started eating more hay and even some greens! And he hadn’t had any more pain meds! I even saw a little binky at one point ?. At 6am he was in his litter box, which is another good sign. Now he is acting weird, hanging out by the front door, but he are some banana and is eating hay again. I doubt he would be eating hay if his mouth was painful, so I’m thinking that he really doesn’t need the meloxicam any more. His poops are bigger and lighter from the oat hay which is good too. *Behavior and appetite wise, he seems to be back to how he was before the molar grinding*- EDITED TO CLARIFY- He is back to the way he was just before the molar grinding, when he was displaying symptoms but still eating some things*. My fear is that the molars weren’t the issue, because it’s taking so long for him to recover, but the improvements are hopeful. I’m hoping he continues to get better. He’s really crunching away on his hay so Im very pleased. I have to work an overnight shift so I am worried about that, but not much choice.

                Thanks so much again for the support and advice!!


              • Wick & Fable
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                  I wanted to update asap! Wick just got another teeth grinding today, and I clarified that his dose is actually 0.21. I think 1.5mg/ml is the concentration perhaps?

                  The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                • Dee
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                    Thanks, Wick! That is the same concentration as Luke’s meloxicam. And Wick has also been prescribed a low dose, although it’s still twice what Luke’s dose is, and Luke weighs twice what Wick does ☺. I’m actually torn on whether to even give Luke his meloxicam. I think I’ll give a low dose- I need to work overnight tonight so I certainly don’t want to skip it and have him not eat all night due to discomfort. But if he’s not in pain, it’s just an uneccesary thing his body has to process.Today he is getting excited for banana and was munching on his hay earlier. If he wasn’t sitting in strange, out of the way places and refusing to eat his greens, I would say he was fine.

                    Of course, if I give meloxicam, I should probably give ranitidine. I never even knew to do that before, but it makes sense especially since Luke already has a delicate GI system at the moment. I would rather give as few meds as possible, but it doesn’t seem like ranitidine has many cons as opposed to pros.

                    I wanted to ask, does Wick’s vet prescribe metaclopramide for after molar trims? Luke’s vet prescribes them for 7-10 days afterward.

                    I hope Wick recovers quickly from his molar grinding as he usually does!


                  • Wick & Fable
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                      He’s doing great, thanks for asking. He’s busy grooming off his fungal topical treatment at the moment, haha.

                      Wick’s vet does not prescribe anything to bring home. Today he got a dose of meloxicam at the office as a precaution because his last grinding caused a tooth infection irritation, and he is already perturbed from the fungal treatment. Following a grinding, Wick just comes home and I make sure he eats. He typically goes right to a box, pees and poops, and starts eating, no meds given.

                      The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                    • Dee
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                        Wow, I’m so happy to hear that Wick is doing so well- I must admit I’m a bit envious too! I wish Luke would recover already ?. Last night he did awesome, actually ate two small plates of greens- and ate everything, not just kale! He ate pellets, hay, and was pooping up a storm. I skipped his syringe feeding to spare him the stress, because he was eating fine. I was so excited, figured finally he’s getting back to normal. Nope- I worked overnight and get home to Luke hiding and refusing his greens again. He will eat a little banana and the tops of his oat hay. I’m just at a loss!! Why is he great every night and then miserable in the morning?? I messed up his med schedule and his meds weren’t due until 1-2 am this morning, while I was at work, so he is overdue about 8 hours for his metaclopramide. I don’t think that’s doing it though, because I’ve changed his dosing schedule on motility and pain meds to see if it made a difference in his weird pattern. It didn’t.

                        This morning I was looking at him sulking in the corner and got myself all freaked out, thinking one side of his face was bigger than the other and that he had an abscess ?. I called the vet and made a follow-up for tomorrow, but as the vet agreed, an abscess by now would be causing him,to get worse and worse. I’ll just feel better having the vet look at Luke and make sure all looks ok. Then I guess I’ll just have to accept that this is just a slooow recovery!

                        We were supposed to go on a bunny date this Saturday, to meet a big, sweet Californian bunny who very much wants a bunny friend, according to her foster mom! I think that could be just what Luke needs, but I also think he is too unstable to make the car ride and go through the stress of bonding right now.

                        I’ll keep you posted on the saga… feeling very whiny and exhausted right about now.

                        Oh, I wanted to ask, what’s the fungal infection Wick has? I apologize if you posted about it- I’m a bit self centered these days!!


                      • Wick & Fable
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                          Doing a specific fungal culture test wasn’t considered, but it’s like a ringworm infection. Not an actual work, but a ring of skin is created because the fungal infection starts at one spot, realizes it can’t adhere well to hair follicles, and begins moving outwards, making a ring larger and larger as the hair follicles fall out, all while new fur is growing back in the ring as it gets bigger.

                          I know a lot of vets and people prefer getting cultures done to know exactly what’s being treated, but I trust Wick’s vet’s intuition and knowledge a lot, since we also did a trial and error for his URI treatment. The fungal infection is almost gone, just a week more of treatment!

                          The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                        • Dee
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                            Hi Wick,
                            Sorry, busy week!! I’m glad that Wick’s fungal infection is resolving. Having trust in your vet is a so important- I feel so much more at peace with any bunny health situation when I know they’re getting the best vet care possible. I’ll still worry, but at least I feel like I’m doing all I can.

                            So Wick has been for a few molar trims now- how do you know when he needs them, or do you go back on a set schedule? My vet said that about 30% Of rabbits are lucky and never need another trim, so I should watch for symptoms and bring him in as soon as I see them.

                            I started this last night and fell asleep, so now it’s morning. AGAIN Luke is acting weird- not eating his greens or pellets- usually he eats those- hiding from me, and generally acting not well. He will eat a little hay, and I noticed him switching the hay from one side of his mouth to the other. It looks a little strange, but he also had a piece of hay stuck in his whiskers so that could have been annoying him lol. Also it was oat hay which is very thick and brittle. This is really getting frustrating! Last night he was racing around doing binkies for the first time since this molar thing. And it was his first day with no meds!! I was so happy, and now this morning he is being weird again. Ugh. Of course it’s Friday and my vet is closed all wknd. Although I really don’t want to keep bringing him back if I’m not sure he is having a physical problem, because it this is just nerves about thinking I’m gonna pick him up/medicate him, vet trips will only make it worse.

                            Its been a week and a day since the molar trim. I would love to hear if other rabbits have taken this long to recover.
                            My poor little munchkin ?.


                          • Wick & Fable
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                              I wait until Wick shows signs, because it doesn’t take much discomfort to make him start acting odd.

                              The two main signs for Wick are:
                              1) Long period of small poops that doesn’t regulate back within a day of noticing.
                              2) Peeing outside the litter box. *Wick wants to pee whenever he’s upset, but he has learned self control not to; however, when his teeth are bothering him, he loses the self control and sassy pees constantly, so it’s a very apparent sign.
                              3) Will not lounge. Will just sit, even while being pet.

                              Other signs that Wick doesn’t reliably show and/or other owners say appear when there are teeth problems:
                              1) Beginning to eat something and spitting it out.
                              2) Eating selective foods, so just hay or just veggies or just pellets. This ties into some textures are less irritating than others.
                              3) Drool. This comes from producing excess saliva to lubricate the abrasions.
                              4) Drinking excessive amounts on water (for lubrication again).
                              5) Teeth grinding.

                              I would recommend bringing him back next week, as the holidays are coming up and if something is still wrong, you may not be able to set an appointment right away! It would be good for your vet to look into his mouth again and see if there are still any saliva bubbles. If so, something back there may still be irritating him. A spur may have been missed or something.

                              The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                            • Wick & Fable
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                                Oh also, Wick’s third grinding did irritate a dormant/hidden tooth infection which he’s now been treated for. That could be a possibility. It was the only grinding of his four that he needed a pain med and was uncomfortable following the procedure.

                                The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                              • Dee
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                                  Thank you so much, Wick ☺. It helps to see the specific signs that your bunny displays- they’re all different but those are more things that I can look out for that I might otherwise have not thought were related.

                                  Before I start rambling on, one question: How did you get know that Wick had an infection that was aggravated by the molar grinding? I’m wondering if that’s a possibility with Luke.

                                  I never heard of looking for saliva bubbles- obviously that would indicate excessive drooling/salivating but I didn’t know that was a sign vets could look for. I’m learning a lot from you- I hope you know how much I appreciate all your advice!

                                  I am going to call the vet on Monday, unless things normalize over the weekend. It’s hard to tell if Luke is uncomfortable or just convinced that I am going to pick him up. He kind of crouches when I approach him, which is his “I’m scared because Momma is gonna get me” position. But to refuse to eat pellets even after I leave the room?? Doesn’t seem right. Yet- another contradiction- he has eaten pellets just fine recently, right up til last night. And no pain meds have been given since Wednesday. How could he just be in pain during the day? I will try some meloxicam if he doesn’t perk up this evening, just in case it has an extra long half life in Luke and he is just now completely without pain relief.

                                  Really wish rabbits could talk. I also wonder if I should be going to a vet at Angell, like the one suggested here. Maybe my vet, although wonderful, is missing something. But he did see Luke’s mouth before, so it would make sense for him to compare. His prices are also amazingly low because he doesn’t have all kinds of techs and secretaries, and honestly between Precious and now Luke, I’m really feeling this finacially. I’ll do what is needed, but don’t want to be zooming Luke to specialists and spending triple if I don’t need to. I always get like this with vets, I get all nervous that my current one is missing something and maybe I should go elsewhere. Pretty sure it’s part of my anxiety about failing to provide optimal care for my bunnies.

                                  And to think some people think rabbits are low maintenance!


                                • Wick & Fable
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                                    Honestly, the tooth infection was a conclusion solely based on “It’s an explanation that fits the bill.” We didn’t do x-rays or anything, but upon looking into Wick’s mouth, the vet saw saliva bubbles still (should have stopped since he had all his spurs grinded down) and noticed the back left molars are slightly raised. Whether this is a part of Wick’s jaw misalignment/crooked teeth, or if it was supporting evidence that an infection was there, I’m unsure, but upon viewing Wick’s mouth again and discussing Wick’s symptoms, a tooth infection was the decided diagnosis. In short: there’s lubrication happening, but there are no spurs— there’s something else happening with the teeth. Again, guess work, but quite confident since historically Wick never needs an appointment following a grinding, so at the visit, Wick’s vet was very surprised I was there and reporting discomforting behavior.

                                    In terms of resolution, Wick received 1 month of tooth infection treatment on antibiotics. After a week on tooth treatment antibiotics, Wick’s fungal infection came up, so treatment for that began as well. It’s slightly difficult to untangle what was making Wick feel better and uncomfortable through this period, so I went from my intuition of knowing his behavior and attitudes. After a month, we stopped the antibiotics for the teeth issues, and aside from excessive grooming from the continuing fungal treatment and the lack of lounging (which I now realize is probably because he does not want to lounge on the cold floor/carpets), he seems back to normal. Eating, pooping, peeing, etc.. He just sits in place more than he usually does, but he also doesn’t have any fur on his jaw, so I imagine it’s not very comfortable to lounge like that, haha.

                                    It’s common practice for me and Wick’s other parents to adjust his body into a lounge because we know he wants to, but he’s afraid moving will stop the petting, haha. During the window between his October teeth grinding and when we actually started tooth infection treatment, he wouldn’t let us do that anymore, so that was a big sign. That’s the usual sign of him needing his teeth grinded, but since that was literally done a week prior, we knew something was up. Fast forward to now, Wick’s tooth infection treatment is done, and we cut out the topical cream from his fungal treatment. Upon cutting out the topical cream, Wick is back to letting us make him lounge and will lounge down, not fully, but much more. The tooth infection seems like an invisible enemy that we never saw, but we put up fences and threw rocks in the bushes and once we stopped, it didn’t show up anymore, haha.

                                    Feel free to ask me more questions! I’m happy to help based on my experiences with Wick.

                                    The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                                  • Dee
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                                      Love the throwing rocks at invisible enemy analogy ?. The conclusion that Wick had an infection makes perfect sense. Fortunately you have a vet who is willing to listen to you and look past what the eyes can see to reach a conclusion. I’ve had a few vets who aren’t willing to do that and especially with our mysterious lagamorphs, it just doesn’t work. I’m pretty sure my vet will consider an infection if Luke’s mouth looks OK as far as spurs, but if he doesn’t I’ll mention it. It would be crazy if a course of antibiotics could set the munchkin right and we didn’t think of it.

                                      Ok, ANOTHER question!! Does your vet sedate Wick to check his teeth every time, such as when he was rechecking him and decided there was an infection? My vet seems to be able to get a pretty good look at Luke’s molars without sedation because Luke is very cooperative, but I wasn’t sure if he could see enough to ascertain that there are no missed points.

                                      Wow, you must have been rather stressed with Wick’s tooth infection and fungal infection! What a relief that treatment is done and things are better. That’s adorable that he lets you adjust him into lounging position and that he won’t move because he’s afraid to miss out on being petted ?. What a sweetie! And I must say I admire your powers of observation, to notice and remember all that with his behavior. I feel like everything is so much harder to figure out with rabbits- I never remember so much guesswork involved with other animals. I’m very impatient too, which leads me to jump to one conclusion after the next, each one more dire than the first.

                                      Ok, I am really wondering if Luke is an actor. All day he has been acting pitiful, sitting in weird spots in the house, refusing greens and pellets, and then most recently, I would give him a piece of hay and he would crunch on it a couple times, then kind of puff up and go into an offended loaf position. All I could think of is the poor little thing is in pain, his teeth must hurt too much to eat the hay. I went and called the vet to see if they were open tomorrow, and if course they are not. So then I was all kinds of stressed, thinking of how we are gonna get through this weekend with Luke in pain and not eating anything but bananas. I was just about to start gathering up meds and syringe feeding equipment when, in a rare moment of sanity, I decided that I would sit down where he could not see me and listen to see if he ate anything.

                                      Within a couple minutes, I could hear him nibbling on his hay ?. Evidently he was just getting warmed up, because I listened to him crunching away for a good 5-10 minutes. There is no way he could be unable to eat hay when I heard him eating it!! Now he has emerged from his hiding place and is stretched out in the living room. I don’t know what to think of this creature anymore.


                                    • Wick & Fable
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                                        My vet acknowledges the only way to see the whole picture is through sedation so the jaw can be opened as wide as possible and cheek skin maneuvered, but the presence of saliva building up is justification to do that with Wick. Sedation has always led into a grinding.

                                        When we set an appointment with teeth troubles in mind, the initial check before jumping into the operation is done with an otoscope, which is what doctors use to look at people’s ears. Wick bites and chews on it while it’s in his mouth, and with the scope’s lense window and light, Wick’s vet can access pretty well if there are spurs, and with certainty if there’s excess saliva. Wick’s vet has a container of otoscope heads that are all scratched up from rabbits and other exotic animals gnawing on them during these mouth checks, haha.

                                        In terms of acting, my observations with Wick is rabbits don’t sustain some thoughts for long periods of time. In terms of medical discomfort, unless it’s something that’s chronic and severe, I find Wick displays bouts of discomfort, rather than it being constant. It’s “ouch I hurt” then “Ooh! Fresh hay, om nom nom!” “Ouch I hurt”. Very volatile.

                                        Some people say if your rabbit still takes treats and is eating, they’re fine, but if I followed that logic with Wick, I wouldn’t seek treatment until he’d be in terrible condition. Consistent bursts of weird behavior that can’t be explained by sleepiness during the day, unhappiness from being left alone for a long time, or other things are when I call Wick’s vet and set an appointment. I’ve never set an appointment that didn’t end up in ” We’ve caught this early, so we can treat it fairly simply.”

                                        I don’t want to make you paranoid though! While Wick’s timeline is very consistently “currently being treated for…”, Generally speaking he has days where he eats less or poops less just because!

                                        The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                                      • Dee
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                                          Hi Wick,
                                          Lol- you don’t need to worry about making me paranoid- that ship has already sailed ?. You don’t get much more neurotic than me, especially about the bunnies!

                                          I absolutely agree with following up on unusual behavior- I think you’re an awesome bunny parent to pay such close attention to Wick that you get him in to the vet before anything gets really bad. Because they hide illness so well, it’s the weird little things they do when not feeling well that can tip us off- before they reach the point of not eating!

                                          And I never really thought of it, but it does seem like rabbits kind of feel “in the moment” and that’s why they can go from looking miserable to zooming across the room for a treat. The only time I’ve seen rabbits act consistently ill and refuse treats is in GI statis or severe cases of head tilt.

                                          I wonder if my vet has time to sedate Luke on Monday if need be. He will probably initially look in his mouth with the otoscope- Lukie chews on it too lol! He is so good for examinations. Even when I pick him up, he pulls his rear legs up to his belly and kind of turns into a little ball. He is just terrified of being handled though. Last week, the first day I had to medicate and syringe feed him, he was squeaking in fear. It was the saddest little noise- I almost couldn’t continue, but of course I knew I had to.

                                          Today Luke wouldnt eat any greens, but he did eat some pellets and banana with enthusiasm. Since midnight last night, he has done 104 poops (yes I am THAT 0BSESSIVE!). His poops are dark and dry and somewhat small, being as he’s not eating greens or drinking a lot. I’m tempted to syringe feed him some water, pumpkin and CC, but he gets so scared, I hate to upset him. He has now been off all meds and syringe feeding since Wednesday.

                                          So after Luke’s pitiful daytime performance yesterday, he became more active. He ate two small plates of greens, then jumped into his new box of hay and sat in there eating it lol. He was roaming all over the house, leaping up into the couch with me to see if I had a treat, and even did some binkies and woke me up at 4am tearing around my bedroom at top speed. I watched him eat hay to see how he chews. He eats one strand at a time, sometimes doubled up on itself. He eats the really thick oat hay as well- but with that, I notice that when the piece gets short, he transfers the hay from one side of his mouth to the other, and sometimes drops the last half inch. He also chewed on his apple sticks. Then, at about 8am today, he had gone into daytime mode and was hiding by the couch. He remained there until about 3pm, not using the litter box and only occasionally nibbling hay. Then he started to hop around, eat hay, and lay out on the living room rug where he usually hangs out.

                                          This is really crazy! How could there be something wrong with his mouth, yet he can eat all these things when he wants to?? Yet he is definitely not himself during the day. Luke has always been extremely greedy- if he even heard the fridge or pellet back opening, he would be out in a flash, jumping on his hind lefd begging. Now he sits in the corner and will barely respond. He scratches his ears a lot, and grooms himself in kind of an excessive way. He also spends most of his time sitting in this weird loaf position where his butt is higher than his shoulders. I also noticed that the base of his right ear is a bit sensitive if I touch it.

                                          Another thing I’ve thought of- if there is something wrong with him like an infection, how is it not getting worse? This whole thing is just so strange. If the vet doesn’t find anything wrong with him on Monday, I think I will go ahead with adopting a wifey for Luke and see if that helps. This is mentally and emotionally exhausting, worrying about the little guy. There’s gotta be an answer!


                                        • Wick & Fable
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                                            A tooth infection would continue to grow throughout the tooth, leading to a need for tooth extraction.

                                            In terms of it “not getting worse”, not all rabbit ailments progress super fast like gi stasis. Your attention to detail is good so you can see how behaviors have been changing or staying the same.

                                            Outside these items, have you thought of non-medical factors? Maybe there’s a bit of instability in his sense of security since he went through the procedure.

                                            The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                                          • Dee
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                                              Hi Wick! ☺ Interesting that you should mention no medical factors, because I was thinking about that last night. I definitely think that Luke is traumatized by all the handling- he is a very easily frightened little bunny, and it took ages for him to even let me touch him. So for his trusted human to suddenly begin grabbing him up and forcing things down his throat has to have shaken him up. Plus the vet trip and procedure, as you said, have affected him. He definitely thinks that I am going to “get him” when I approach during the day- he either tries to get away when I approach, or goes into his terrified crouch. That is another reason why I’m hesitant to bring him to the vet tomorrow if he acts fine today.

                                              I also thought of another reason why he might not be too interested in his greens (besides the fact that he and Precious always ate their greens together, on their respective sides of the gate). I never gave Lukie anything else with his greens- he would often sniff them and hop away, offended that they weren’t anything better. But once he realized that was all he was getting, he would come back and eat them. Since he’s been ill, I started serving him pieces of apple and banana with his greens. I wonder if he just prefers that and thinks he will get more of he refuses his greens!!

                                              Anyway, he has been doing great since I last posted. Last night, he was eating hay ALL NIGHT- like he couldn’t get enough of it. I also tried putting a little apple juice in his water, and he loved it, which is great because I was worrying about whether he was drinking. He also drank normally, not like the time before his molar grinding when he was tilting his head while drinking.

                                              He also ate a lot of greens last night. I made a big plate for him and left it for him to eat overnight. This morning they were almost gone, which surprised me. Then today, at about noon time, I
                                              gave him a little banana, a couple oats and a few pellets. He devoured those too- no problem with the pellets.

                                              I definitely feel that he is improving. I’ve read about a few bunnies that took a few weeks to really get over their molar trim, and I’m thinking maybe Lukie is one of them. Now my main issue is whether to take him to the vet tomorrow- I made an 11am appt for him for tomorrow, when he was still acting sick. I work tonight overnight, get out at 8am and have to be back at work at 4pm tomorrow, so I don’t have a lot of time to spend comforting or observing Luke. He gets so scared in the car and at the vet, he sounds like he’s hyperventilating, and he drools in the car so I think maybe he gets carsick!
                                              I’m very tempted to call the vet, explain and cancel, of course paying a fee for less than 24 hrs notice if needed. But I made an appt last week for the next day, then thought Luke was fine so I called and cancelled (with more than 24 hours notice). I’ve told them about his weird behavior but I don’t want them to think I’m the one with weird behavior lol- or get mad at me for changing appts last minute.

                                              Of course, if I don’t take Luke to the vet and then he starts acting sick again when everyone is closed for Thanksgiving, I will be kicking myself. It’s unlikely, given how he has improved, but possible that there is something physical going on. What would you do?


                                            • Wick & Fable
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                                                I’d cut out all the treats and do standard diet for the next 24hrs. If the improving behavior persists, I think that’s good.

                                                Selective eating happens a lot when we are just trying to get them to eat following a procedure, so it’s good to see if eating habits can regulate back.

                                                The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                                              • Dee
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                                                  Yes, I never even thought of that until now. I was so obsessed with the idea that he was in pain that I forgot how clever he is about getting his favorite treats. Good idea to cut the treats- he won’t think so, but it has to happen anyway or he will be a very round bunny. He is really eating his hay now, way more than before his teeth were done even when he was fine. I’m thinking that must mean that all is well with his teeth!

                                                  I wish I hadn’t made the vet appt now. I hate situations like this, I’m bad at decisions. I’m just afraid that I’ll take him and nothing will be wrong, but the trip will stress him out so much he will stop eating again and we will be back to square one. But I really should have him checked out, just in case, and I also don’t want to be inconsiderate of the vet. Ugh. I guess I’ll just call in the morning and tell them that Luke has improved a lot, and leave it up to the vet whether he wants me to come out still.

                                                  Oh! This is new to me, and I wonder if any other bunnies do this. Lukie was sleeping before, and must have been dreaming. Suddenly he made all these squeaking sounds, sounded like an angry chipmunk! Startled me quite a bit- I checked on him and there he was, still sleeping away in that funny sitting pose that looks like they are awake until you look at their blank eyes and strangely moving ears.


                                                • Wick & Fable
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                                                    Squeaked breathing while sleeping has happened to Wick. It’s not an issue, but if it’s pretty consistent and occurs in daily activities, it can be a sign of something in his nasal passages or lungs. But again, it happens in spurts while sleeping, that’s normal and a sign of a relaxed rabbit (in my opinion).

                                                    The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                                                  • Dee
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                                                      Yes, the noises were definitely not respiratory related. He was sleeping and then suddenly squeaking and squealing like he was being tortured- probably dreaming of me picking him up.

                                                      I tried your suggestion on cutting out the treats and guess what- the little brat ate all his greens! Good idea- thanks ☺!

                                                      I ended up getting out of work too late to make the vet appt, but I really don’t think Luke needs to see the vet now. He is eating everything, in fact he is eating more hay now than he has since we first got him. Poor baby, his teeth we’re probably bothering him for a while. I’m sure that’s why he was chewing the couch and bedspread too, although I’ve blocked off the couch and removed my bedspread just to be safe. Maybe I’ll try giving him access to one of then after Thanksgiving, but not right now!

                                                      Does Wick go back to his hay with a vengeance after his molar trims? It seems like Luke is always in his litter box eating now. I actually let him jump in the big hay box and help himself, which he loves. I just need to keep an eye out to be sure he doesn’t start using that as a litter box. That would be a bit expensive!


                                                    • Wick & Fable
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                                                        My vet does cite a rabbit who chews the same piece of an armchair when there are teeth problems, so you can catalogue that chewing to be a sign in the future potentially.

                                                        As I mentioned earlier, Wick has a pretty low threshold before showing his symptoms, so it never gets bad that his hay consumption lessens enough that I notice a run up after the procedure. The main difference is poop size is more consistent afterwards.

                                                        It’s great that he’s eating more hay! Always a good thing. Yeah, don’t let him in the hay box. The want to mark that is very major. Wick gets scolded when he does, so now he knows not to when it’s out. I’m glad he learned that quickly so I can clean without worrying about it. He’ll just get his paws on its lip and sniff when there’s new hay in there since he knows I’ll put some more in his litter box at that time. He hops in there and waits for it.

                                                        The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                                                      • Dee
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                                                          Hi Wick, Happy Thanksgiving!! And to anyone who might be reading this too ☺! Sorry it took me so long to reply, it’s been so busy. I tried to reply the other night but I was so tired, I kept falling asleep and waking up to find I had just typed a whole bunch of gibberish while dozing lol. I guess if I’m touching the keypad, my phone will just do it’s best with auto correct ?.

                                                          That’s good to know that your vet knows of a rabbit who also chews certain things when his teeth are bothering him. Luke has always been terrible about chewing hard objects- he has gnawed on all our chairs, the woodwork in the house, and enjoys many of my antiques as well ☺. Fortunately I have more rustic style of antiques than the elegant shiny mahogany lol. But- with the exception of the underside of an beautiful antique chair ?- he never went for soft stuff like couches and bedspread. So that will be a tip-off in the future.

                                                          That is awesome that you’re so in tune to Wick that you recognize when he needs a trim before it affects his appetite! I’ve noticed that Lukie’s poops are bigger and don’t vary in size much now- yay! Yeah, he is loving his hay now- constantly crunching ayway on it ☺. He has a huge variety that I order from 3 different places- his oat hay, a 10lb box that has 1st cut timothy, 2nd cut timothy, orchard grass and a blend of meadow grasses with a little clover, and some really crunchy 1st cut with lots of legacy grasses and bit of clover mixed in. Spoiled rotten! I’m noticing such a huge different in how much hay he eats now- his teeth must have been off for a while ?.

                                                          Of course today with no vets open, he decided to get all strange and hide in his box, which turned me into a nervous wreck until I realized that he was upset because my son dared to come in the front door and walk through Luke’s living room ?. The nerve of him!! I’m having Thanksgiving dinner tomorrow (work schedules) and afraid I’m going to have a VERY offended little bunny! Hopefully he won’t stop eating or anything crazy.

                                                          OK, I’ll sign off now- wishing all bunnies and their hoomans a happy and safe Thanksgiving!!! ☺

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                                                      Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A How long did your bunny need Metacam after molar spur trim?