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Forum BONDING Bonding two males

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    • PriscaZia
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        Hi all, sorry that this is just another boring bonding question but I really am not sure what to do for the best for my rabbits and I just feel like I need to speak to someone rather than reading page after page of conflicting information online!
        So I started off with one rabbit (Radish) a young male Netherland dwarf, he was a house rabbit and on his own for a year. I then adopted a 3 year old female Himalayan cross (Parsnip) from our local rescue centre and did a massive amount of research then after 2 weeks of cage swapping and mixing in neutral territory they bonded no problems. This was 5 years ago and they lived happily in their very large outdoor enclosure spending the days in their run. This summer I decided that I finally had enough money to build my dream rabbit enclosure with runaround tunnels, digging pens and multiple runs. It was a massive project and my bunnies absolutely loved their new home but it really was very extravagant for two rabbits and I’d always loved the idea of having a group of rabbits. I started looking for another bonded pair but ended up feeling sorry for a lovely sweet unneutered young Rex. My intention was to bond him with the group once he was neutered and then add another female at a later date (I realise now that getting another bonded pair would probably have been the better idea!). The new bunny (Mushroom) was neutered and a couple of weeks later his run was placed against one of the main runs and we started the bonding process.l through the bars. All was going very well when Parsnip passed away suddenly. The vets have no idea what was wrong as she showed no signs of illness and the boys have been checked over and are fine. She was around 8 years old so not a young rabbit but I was of course devastated. So I’ve now been left with two male rabbits that need to bond, a situation I would never have chosen knowing how much easier it is with a mixed pair! I first introduced the boys when Mushroom had been neutered 3 weeks, they were initially ok but then Mushroom tried to mount Radish and he did not take kindly to this! So they fought and after 3 days of trying I felt I was doing more harm than good and decided to wait until his hormones had settled. It has now been a further 4 weeks and the past week I’ve noticed that every time I go out to the boys they’re generally sat in the same corner next to each other. Radish has even moved his toilet corner to be next to Mushroom’s. I was sure they were going to get on fine. I had been reading how bonding in the bathtub can be a good idea so I decided to try that this time. I put a blanket on the bottom and a tunnel for them to hide in (more like a log roll than a tunnel) and some cabbage at either end. I put the boys in and at first they just ignored each other. Radish went over to Mushroom and sniffed his head then walked away and I really thought they’d be fine, then they sat looking at each other for a moment and suddenly both lunged at each other out of nowhere. I separated them and then they ignored each other again. Then Radish went to sniff mushroom’s head again and then I’m not sure who instigated it but they just started scrapping again. Previously it was chasing and mounting so I’m obviously glad this has stopped but now it’s just a sudden lunge and they roll around together. I then separated them again and they didn’t go near each other but then suddenly both lunged again at the same time and someone let out a big squeak when they fought so I split them up and put them back in their runs straight away, which i think was maybe wrong and I should have ended it on a good note! I don’t feel like the bathtub was a good idea as it was too small for them to get away from each other. I also think I did the wrong thing by having vegetables in there. I just don’t know where to go from here. I would love these two to mix and I’ll be devastated if they don’t but I don’t really know if I’m stressing them out and making it worse. I’d love for someone to give me some tips on how to go about this? I haven’t been swapping their hutches around because i don’t think it would be fair for Radish to be in a 6ft by 4ft run with a hutch in when he’s used to such a large area with tunnels whereas Mushroom has lived his short life in a tiny hutch so is perfectly happy with the temporary accommodation he has now. But I may be able to change the tunnel system around and make something work if this will help them? I just want to do what’s right for my sweet boys! Thanks in advance!


      • DanaNM
        Moderator
        8901 posts Send Private Message

          Hi there,

          So sorry for your loss of Parsnip.

          There are many here with two males, so it is possible, but like all bonds, depends on the personalities. It does sound like the last session had a pretty bad fight (rolling around together…). Did anyone get injured (skin broken)??

          I would first take another break of a few weeks as kind of a reset to allow them to settle down, and start doing the cage swaps during that time (every day or two). Even though it feels unfair for Radish, it’s important for them to lose track of what is “their” territory, and to start the process on an even playing field. If you really don’t want to swap cages, at least swap litter boxes (but I think cage swapping is more effective).

          Also, I’m sure Mushroom would love more space! He might be used to a small hutch, but that doesn’t mean he’s as happy as he could be…. do you at least allow him several hours in a run each day?

          That aside, here is the approach I would take (assuming no one was injured in the fight):
          -Pre-bond + break from sessions for 3-4 weeks
          – When you are ready to start sessions again, work with a larger area in very neutral space. About 10-15 ft should be good. This space should not have any food, litter boxes, or hiding boxes. You don’t want anyone to feel trapped or get possessive over anything. Also if someone is in a hiding box you won’t be able to read their body language. You want them to have enough space to get away from each other if they want to. The rescue might even allow you to bring both bunnies in and date them in their exercise pens (my rescue did this, it’s always worth asking). Then they can also help you with bonding.
          – Start with very short sessions (30 sec – 1 minute). Whatever the minimum is to insure that they will not fight with each other. Basically you will be giving them time to explore the area and then end the date. If the immediately lunge at each other, you will need to re-think things. You can try taking them on a car-ride together (place both bunnies in a bin or box, have a helper drive, and you make sure they don’t fight). Car rides were really the thing that helped with my first bond (which was very difficult). It is very very important that you do not let them fight. Set short time goals for each date, and don’t extend the date just because things are going well. Be very aware of their body language. Ears back and tail up means they are going to lunge or attack. If they approach each other, it can be very good at this stage to pet them both and swap scents, then end the date.

          If stressing is not effective, and even short sessions aren’t possible, they may not be a good match. If you have the ability to keep two pairs separately, it might be best for both of them to take them both dating and find a new mate for each of them.

          . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


        • PriscaZia
          Participant
          2 posts Send Private Message

            Thanks so much for reading through all that!

            Thank you, it was an awful shock

            No, no one was injured and I split it up within a few seconds. I think it just worried me a lot because someone squealed!

            I think I will try the cage swapping and Radish will just have to get on with it otherwise I think I will have problems when I try to put them together in their enclosure.

            Oh no, when I say Mushroom’s used to a small hutch I mean that’s what he used to be in at his previous home, the area he’s in now is an 8ft by 6ft run with a hutch in so he has a lot more room than most rabbits I know! It’s just that Radish is used to an enclosure that consists of three 8ft by 6ft runs connected with tunnels and different hidey areas so I just didn’t want him stuck in just one run but I think I’m fussing him a bit! He is only a tiny rabbit really!

            Unfortunately Mushroom was a private rescue so not from a rehoming centre or anything like that so that isn’t possible unfortunately. And my local rescue centre don’t do any rabbit bonding and don’t allow people to bring their rabbits in for bonding or to choose a mate (I used to work there so know all the basics but when we would mix our rabbits if they fought we would give up and try another mix which obviously isn’t possible here!)

            However that being said, I didn’t see your message until today and things have actually improved between my two. I feel like the bath was too small an area and this stressed them out so we have now starting bonding in a larger area and the first day they had a couple of little tiffs but I think the fight must have made Radish realise that he can’t be dominant over a rabbit twice his size so he is definitely more submissive now. We have been mixing every day and they now mostly ignore each other, if Radish gets too close Mushroom will put his ears back slightly and Radish will turn around and go the other way! So we’re definitely making improvement! Today they’ve been together for an hour and we’ve had no fights at all, just a couple of warning looks from Mushroom.

            Do I need to wait until they “love” each other and choose to lie with each other and groom etc before I can start thinking of putting them together in their enclosure or is it enough that they are ignoring each other? Do some rabbits never love each other and still live happily together? Or am I looking to wait until they love each other before I move on any more? Right now it seems like Mushroom will never let Radish groom him but I suppose a week ago I thought they’d never tolerate each other so a lot can change! Also, I’ve heard putting honey on their heads can encourage grooming? Or is this just nonsense?

            Thanks again for reply to me!


          • DanaNM
            Moderator
            8901 posts Send Private Message

              That sounds like progress for sure, but definitely wait until they snuggle and groom each other before moving forward!

              You’ll want to go from neutral to semi neutral space, before moving to their final home. They should both cuddle and groom, with no aggressive interactions, before moving to the next step.

              It’s great that radish is being submissive. Once mushroom is convinced of that you should be on the path to success.

              I’ve done smushed banana on the head! It’s helped a lot! But, i usually wait till they are calm around each other. Sometimes the scramble to get the banana can be too much in the early stages where they aren’t quite sure about each other.

              . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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          Forum BONDING Bonding two males