Told my rabbits may not bond; second opinion?

[Deleted User]

Putting this separate from my bonding thread in case it could be useful to others who have been given conflicting information.

Soooooo I called my local rescue because they seem to really know a lot about rabbits and they have a ton of bunnies that they take good care of. They also bond rabbits that come in and adopt out the pairs. So I thought they might be able to give me some suggestions with my two since I’ve been at it for a month and we are still in “neutral-ish” territory.

I explained to her the situation and she was saying stuff that honestly didn’t make sense to me.

1) She said they may never bond. That if I have been doing it for a month and I can’t say they are bonded that I am doing it wrong or they just don’t like each other. Now, my two are very physical with each other. They groom a ton and cuddle together most of the time. If something scares Ophelia she runs and buries herself into Quincy. I find it hard to believe that they don’t like each other. I told her I was using the kitchen, which could be classified as semi-neutral and she said that they just won’t bond because it’s not neutral.

2) She asked if I had stress bonded in the car and I said yes but that Ophelia jumped out of the laundry bin in the car. So then she said that I defeated the purpose of stress bonding and I was doing it wrong with a laundry bin. She said I need to put both buns in the same carrier. The carriers are small. They are for cats. Its roomy for one bunny but would be really cramped to shove them both in. Thoughts on that  ? ? ?

3) She said that Ophelia may be mounting him to tell me “don’t take him away from me”…. I have never heard that as a reason for mounting. She has been trying to mount him more since the litter boxes were added to sessions. I assumed that was a territory/dominance thing.

None of this makes sense to me and it’s so far from anything I have heard about bonding.

[Sirius&Luna]

How annoying/upsetting!

1. I don’t believe that your two will never bond. There seem to be a lot of very positive elements in their relationship, and I think it’s just a matter of time. They obviously don’t hate each other, and I always thought rabbits that were ‘unbondable’ truly hated each other, rather than liked each other but were a bit confused.

2. When I was looking for a professional to bond my bunnies, two of them recommended that I stress bonded them on the journey there by putting them both in one carrier. I think the idea is it’s so cramped that they can’t fight, but I don’t think yours are fighting so not sure if that would benefit.

3. I agree with you on that, it sounds territorial to me. Professionals I’ve spoken to have said that mounting is either dominance or hormonal, so that sounds like a very bizarre reason to me, and I’m not convinced bunnies have that much logic.

As you know, mine have now made significant progress (I’m still hesistant to call them bonded, but my bonder did), and the thing that really solidified their relationship was leaving them together for longer. I know you work the same sort of hours as me, but could you try from Friday evening to Sunday and see how that goes? I think that extra push of more time together helps push through bumps and they get used to the situation more, rather than having a session then going back to their normal life, where you’re sort of starting from the beginning (not totally obviously, but they probably repeat the same old behaviours) again.

[DanaNM]

Second what’s already been said. That just seems silly to me, given the positive behavior you have already.

I really think you’ll need to set aside some days for a marathon to push past the current plateau.

I do agree that your stress bonding session doesn’t count because they weren’t near each other. The idea is that they snuggle for comfort, so the bin or carrier is supposed to make sure that happens.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Deleted User]

I’ve been wanting to try some overnights on the weekends, I just haven’t been able to yet! Last weekend I was so sick with a cold and didn’t even manage to do any sessions on Friday or Saturday. I am really aiming to do a marathon weekend this weekend.

It does suck that they are taking so long. I think that they both definitely want to be friends, they just haven’t worked it out because Quincy is putting up a bit of a fight about relinquishing dominance to Ophelia. He seems to have come a long way though, he’s grooming her more and letting her mount occasionally. She is still getting upset when he doesn’t groom back and will nip him lightly. I mean they haven’t had anything that constitutes as a fight in at least two weeks. They just have this thing where one will get bothered by the other and they will jump up and mush their faces together in a standoff until they calm down. That’s why I am reluctant to try moving to semi neutral territory because I see a fight breaking out. They aren’t 100% comfortable yet.

[Deleted User]

Yeah I didn’t expect Ophelia to want to move around. I had them in a laundry bin and idk why she wanted to explore the car but Quincy was frozen in fear. I can try the carriers I just thought that being so close and closed up could cause a fight if they wanted to be away from each other.

[Sirius&Luna]

I definitely don’t think you should feel disheartened yet. Keep going as you are until you can manage a longer session at the weekend, and hopefully then you’ll make some progress/see where they stand a bit better.

Hope you’re feeling better too!

[Deleted User]

Not gonna lie I have felt like giving up on them several times lol. I just have so much going on without having to bond and sometimes it just adds so much additional stress to my day. But I know that it will be worth it, I just hoped they would sort things out faster. I wanted to get some of you guys opinions because honestly what she was telling me was ridiculous. She would hardly let me get a word in and was quite rude actually. At the end of the conversation I was baffled because she completely changed what she was saying and told me that if they aren’t fighting at all then they are bonded and I can let them live together…. and I’m like uhhhhhhhh NO?! Like I could just go from a neutralish territory to letting them have free range of each others space. How absolutely wrong! It makes me quite discouraged because I thought of this rescue as a really great organization, but now I don’t respect them as much… it’s advice like that given to new owners that results in bunnies being hurt because they are pushed during bonding.

[DanaNM]

Honestly, they are just being stubborn, but given the behaviors you’re describing, I’m pretty confident they will get through it.

My first pair took 3 months… the first month they wanted to fight. the second 6 weeks they ignored each other, and Bunston would sit frozen in fear in the corner, Bertha would ignore him. Finally after 2 12 hour sessions we had a break through, where Bunston groomed Bertha, then it was all downhill from there.

With Bertha and Moose, things were more like your two, but I didn’t get any grooming at all until day 3 of marathoning (and that was after about a month of long sessions). And I felt like things were going pretty well (I also thing your two sound like they are doing pretty well too). So please don’t get too disheartened. I read through a lot of accounts of situations similar to yours when I was working with Bertha and Moose, where they both were dominant personalities, and just weren’t quite getting there. Time and time again people said that marathoning and stress helped them sort things out. The marathon helps the bunnies realize that they MUST come to terms with the fact that the other bunny isn’t going away.

You are partially right about a fight breaking out in a carrier, especially during the first few sessions when you aren’t quite sure how they will react, but the idea is that the car ride is stressful enough to prevent them from fighting. I didn’t use a carrier early on, when I was worried about a fight breaking out. I used a rubber maid tub, so I could reach in and split them up if needed, but still keep them from jumping out. But once Bertha and Moose were spending hours together without incident, I did end up using a carrier, and it worked out great.

When they do have their nose-to-nose “stand-offs”, do you need to intervene? What happens if you do nothing? Does a chase ensue? Or circling? Or boxing? If not, it’s not likely they will start all out fighting. Bertha and Moose still do this, but will usually end up just snuggling and falling asleep, content even if neither grooms. Or one will hop away if they don’t feel like it (or re-position so they are side by side).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Deleted User]

When they do their nose to nose standoffs it’s usually because Ophelia was laying down and Quincy was sniffing her bum, which she doesn’t like! She’s gotten more tolerant of it and doesn’t immediately jump up when he goes near, but if he keeps at it and sticks his face further in (why does he do that lol) then she gives a light grunt and turns to face him. They both lower down into the nose-nose standoff and Ophelia has her tail raised but ears are usually at least semi relaxed, not full blown pressed back like she’s really pissed, more like slightly annoyed. I don’t have to intervene at all besides saying “be nice” or “heyyy” and Ophelia usually just goes from that defensive stance to laying down in front of him, or one of them start to groom the other. Sometimes one of them will nip and there will be a quick bunny jostle, like “hey what the hell man!” but I haven’t seen them box or chase each other at all. Quincy is more sensitive to stress than I thought, and he takes a few minutes of her laying down before he goes from upright loaf position to laying or flopping. I guess he wants to make sure she’s not gonna try any funny business before he gets relaxed. 
  
We have only had three true fights in the past month. 1) it was like the 3rd or 4th session and I had a litterbox in the room and I was sitting outside observing. my fault there for the litter box 2) Ophelia tried to mount and really pissed him off, but I stopped it before it turned into bunny tornado and 3) was about 2 weeks ago when I attempted to add litterboxes and Quincy tried to mount her while she was in the box.

We have used litter boxes for the past week, which I have attributed to the reason that I’ve seen a little bit more nipping, mounting and stand-off activity. The week before that they were perfect angels. But I know that sometimes they have to rework things when you take another step forward (adding litter trays).

[Deleted User]

I know I sound like a broken record and I know I am constantly seeking advice on how to proceed, sorry! It’s just that this is all quite confusing for a first time bunny owner and it’s obviously my first time bonding.

[DanaNM]

Totally understandable! My first time I bonded, I didn’t even know this forum existed, but was able to get in touch with a very experienced person through a yahoo group and get some advice. I came very close to giving up a few times, and felt like I was just being cruel to continue. But I just knew in my heart that Bunston really needed a friend, and once he could get past his fear they would be home free (and they were).

If you read back through your journal, I think you’ll see that you’ve definitely made progress, as they are now OK with litter boxes, as they weren’t before. And no issues in the past 2 weeks.

See if you can try not saying anything when they go nose-to-nose and see what happens. At this point, I’d only make a noise or squirt them if there’s boxing or a chase longer than 3 seconds.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Deleted User]

I’ll give that a try! Thanks for all your help you guys! Hopefully we can have a breakthrough weekend this weekend.

[sarahthegemini]

I’m genuinely surprised that you got such poor advice. I mean, of course there’s always a risk that two rabbits won’t bond but your pair aren’t showing signs of bunnies that won’t bond…They’re showing very positive signs so what the hell :-/

Sure it’s taking a little while but you know what, sometimes that happens and that’s okay! Please don’t panic that yours haven’t bonded in a month. You’re seeing progress which is what’s REALLY important. Remember, my pair had a very snuggly love at first sight thing and it still took a fortnight so the fact that it’s only been a month for your pair isn’t bad. It’s really not long at all in the grand scheme of things. And think about how Ophelia reacted when she first smelled Quincy. They’ve come a long way. So keep it up and forget what that plonker said!

[Deleted User]

I know!! I couldn’t believe that she was saying this stuff…it’s so far off from what I’ve heard here, and everyone here gives really sound advice. And I thought that they were getting along pretty well for the most part, they just haven’t totally worked out all the kinks.

Yes that’s true, she used to be absolutely nuts and attack my feet and always grunt and scratch at me. They’re unphased now when I switch them into each other’s areas. and we’re getting past adding litter boxes so that’s good too.

It can just get so overwhelming sometimes! But I know that a month really isn’t all that long, and it’s definitely worth it to give them a friend for life

[ThorBunny]

I’m the opposite of a bonding expert, but I also think your bunnies can definitely bond! From my own failed attempt, we NEVER had any positive experiences between the two, like no snuggling, no grooming, no being near to each other without aggression. I spent a month or more with them like that, daily sessions, and our bonder was still hopeful they could be bonded. It was only after she had them for a week straight of marathoning with no improvement and many fights that she and I had to call it.

You’re nowhere near that level and it really sounds like you are making good progress! I really really know how overwhelming it can be, but don’t loose hope. Thor and I have our paws crossed for your lovely pair

[Deleted User]

Aww thanks!

I’m sorry it didn’t work for your two. Hopefully you can find another friend that will work for Thor, but I know that it’s probably super discouraging since your first go was a bit of a disaster! If I remember correctly it was kinda strange that Boo wouldn’t take to Thor because Boo had been bonded to other buns before. Sorry for your bad luck with that pairing!

Yesterday I decided to just stay up as late as I could manage and they were together from 5pm-11pm. They had some minor issues when one would run from the other side of the room and jump in the same litter box, but mainly it was just that they would both freeze for a few seconds (gauging the others reaction perhaps?) then go back to normal. A few times there were a few nips and Quincy tried to mount her in the litter box but she just jumped out and got away from him and he didn’t chase. I guess Quincy still doesn’t get that he’s not going to be the top bun! Silly guy. They spent most of their time snuggled and grooming. I have a midterm tomorrow so I’m not going to stay up late tonight but I want to try to do maybe 5pm-11 or 12 on Thursday and Friday as a setup for a weekend marathon.

[Sirius&Luna]

Did you manage a weekend marathon? How are they doing?

[Dface]

Honestly your rabbits are just being stubborn, but they sound like they are very likely to eventually be bonded.
When I was bonding, for the first month, despite some positive behaviour, I had horrendous bunny tornadoes and everything. Peep got some nasty bites and I wanted to throw in the towel and get a different rabbit (the shelter told me it would be no problem) but boyfriend said he wasnt giving Peep back so I decided to persevere.

It took time, weeks of increasing sessions during a horrible time ( end of term papers, starting a thesis project, getting evicted)
But it got there.
Dont be afraid to take breaks, or even just drag the 2 of them up on to the couch with you so you can chill and watch tv while petting the two side by side.

Your rabbits sound like they like each other, they just need to figure out the dominance thing, putting them in a cat carrier to stress them is something i’ve done-works fairly well. They cant get going in terms of fighting and they HAVE to snuggle together.

I really wouldnt be discouraged if I were you, I think shelters tend to find easy bonds-they have lots of bunnies that are already in a new environment, so all of it is essentially neutral, including the humans, plus with the number they get through there is no point spending a month on a bond when you have the chance of a simple bond with another pairing

[Deleted User]

Dface, I thought the exact same thing regarding that their bonds are probably a lot easier because the buns are in an unfamiliar and stressful environment.

I did not manage a marathon session. They still continue to be nippy and when I do not intervene they start getting heated. They will cuddle together for majority of sessions but if either is not getting what they want they nip and it starts a fight if I don’t stop it. Since they are still doing this, I decided to not try a marathon session yet. We still had sessions of 4-6 hours, but did not try overnight.

I’m honestly just so sick of the process. I can’t part with either of them because I love em both too much, but it is just REALLLY getting so frustrating. I mean, I’ve been doing prebonding for 2 1/2 months and true bonding for another 1 month and a week. So nearly 4 months later and we still can’t just get along? Get real, that’s ridiculous!!!

Ophelia has really come a long way and for the most part she is very nice and tolerant. She grooms him so much, but she does nip him when he won’t reciprocate. I can’t even blame her though cause it’s like she does all the grooms and he won’t give her more than a few licks in return.

It’s to a point where I feel so deafeated and like this whole ordeal has been massively unrewarding thus far. I spend literally EVERY moment of my free time doing sessions. I’m just feeling like so much wasted time is going into this. I know I should stay positive but it’s truly so hard. I don’t even know what to say about it any more that’s why I haven’t been posting.

[Dface]

It does get like that. It’s horrible.
Is there anywhere you can take them they’ve never been? Someone’s house or out in their pen? And then ask your husband or a friend to watch them instead of you.

I found that to be a turning point with my pair (I “abandoned ” them for a week with my family while I was moving and sorting out the house) when I started bonding again they were much more open to accepting to one another.

Even asking a shelter to hold them for a bit might help?

[Deleted User]

so the local place (Gainesville rabbit rescue) has been so unhelpful and gave me pretty bad advice. Also, they are at full capacity and aren’t even able to accept any owner relinquish so I doubt they would be able to dedicate a space for my buns. I called before I started bonding and asked if they help with the process and she said no, unless the rabbits were adopted from them.

I wish I had more areas in my apartment that were neutral, but I just don’t! I asked a friend if I could try some sessions at her apartment and she said no, that she doesn’t want them chewing her stuff or peeing on her floor (even though they don’t do any chewing when together and both are very good with litter habits). She has a cat anyway, so that is probably not the best option. I don’t have family close enough for it to be worth the drive to their place.

I’m considering taking down my dining room table (again…) and running the carpet shampoo machine a few times to really get their scent out. And then blocking the area off and trying to use that for bonding. I wonder if they are just getting sick of the kitchen? They did wonderful for about 2 weeks. But they have been in the kitchen for a month, and I moved there from the bathroom because they were fighting and it seemed like it was because they didn’t have enough space to get away from each other. The kitchen is quite small too, it’s about 2 feet across (counter to counter) and maybe 8 feet long? It’s tiny, since I have such a small apartment to begin with (only 650 sq ft). Maybe a change of scenery and more space will help? Or do you think that no matter how much I clean the carpet in that room, they will just fight because it’s not neutral?

[Dface]

Not necessarily, my home where I bonded yumi and Peep was Yumis home first. She had been there as recently as two months prior by herself, so wasn’t neutral space. It was just arranged different. The current space you are using is probably no longer neutral either. It will smell of you and each of them, so really it’s now a shared space

[DanaNM]

A change of scenery might help, especially if you are better able to monitor them for longer sessions. I would clean the carpet, then lay down a shower curtain or tarp, then a unfamiliar blanket on top of that to block the scent and appearance of the carpet. Then make sure to block their view of their surroundings with blankets or cardboard, and you should be good.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Deleted User]

Cleaned the carpet thoroughly. I vacuumed the room twice, went over it twice with the carpet cleaner, then again with the steam dry setting and passed the vacuum once more afterward. Then I laid down some sleeping bags and blankets over most of the floor, but I don’t have enough to cover all of it. This room is attached to the kitchen where I have been doing bonding. So I set them both down and they seem a bit on edge, like they are very cautious of each other. A few times Quincy presented for grooms and Ophelia nipped him right away. She’s relaxed a few times and laid down. No chasing which is what I was really concerned about…. overall is it normal to be more nippy and high alert when moving to another area that they haven’t shared before?

[Deleted User]

Oh I don’t know if I am doing this right or not. When you move to another area, do you remove litter boxes again and work up to having them present? I’ve had them in today. So far so good but I have been very involved and hands on making sure that they don’t have any fights. They seem to be doing the same thing they did at first, very relaxed and calm when I am near and petting them but pretty high strung when I walk away. I’ve been petting them as they lay together for about half an hour and they’ve both groomed each other. Of course I know things wouldn’t be going this civilized if I wasn’t right there petting the both of them lol. But anways, litter trays or no litter trays?

[DanaNM]

It’s pretty normal for them to be tense when you move to a new area. Especially before they are bonded (and even sometimes when they are bonded), they often have to go through all their “introductions” again.

This is even true from session to session, which is why marathoning seems to work so well. They don’t have to spend so much time going through the initial dominance displays.

As far as the litter boxes go, I think if they seem fine with them in, leave them, especially since you are treating this as another neutral space, and they are the boxes they are familiar with.

What happens when you walk aren’t there? Tense is OK, and expected at first (they are bunnies in unfamiliar land, after all).

I think at this point you do need to limit intervention on your part, unless it’s to break up a chase or circling. You want them to be going to each other for comfort, not to you. I know it’s really hard to feel like you are ignoring them, but it is necessary. I do think the smooshing is great when the bunnies are fighting and need to just settle down, but at this point I think yours are beyond that point. And if Ophelia is going to be the boss (which is sounds like she prob will be), then you will need to allow her to act like kind of a bossy brat to Quincy so he gets the message. I know Bertha was being SUCH a brat to Moose in the few days before he finally started grooming her more, and it was hard to watch, but she had to be very convinced that he wasn’t going to try any funny business, and it sounds like Ophelia is in that zone with Quincy. Remember, only intervene with circling, chasing for more than 3 seconds, or hard biting. And try not to put yourself in between them if at all possible (I would always have my vacuum plugged in near the bonding area and would flip it on anytime a chase would happen).

I know with my first pair, I probably made it take way longer than it should have because I would intervene too often.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Deleted User]

I know I need to chill on the intervening. It’s hard!! When I see one nip the other I feel it’s unfair and I (almost instinctively) say “hey” and with only that I’ve interrupted them. So we did about 5 hours in the dining room/kitchen. A few times they wandered into the kitchen but mostly stayed in the dining room. After about 1 hour they got much more relaxed and they were each hopping around without staring wide eyed at the other. And they could hop up to each other and lay, whereas at first they jumped up when the other came near. I went to the kitchen to make myself some soup for dinner, then just sat in the room and watched some Netflix on my tablet. They used the litter boxes but they didn’t want to share, it’s almost like they agreed on only one bun per box policy lol. So they were never in the box at the same times but the boxes didn’t seem to trigger anything. A few times they nipped each other and then popcorned up and did a smash face but then went back to normal. So overall I’m not too upset with today. I’m just going to keep the dining room blocked off so that neither can go in on their own. And I’ll use that as bonding space. Things have been really crummy feeling the past two weeks. Hopefully a change of scenery will be good for us all lol

[Deleted User]

Oh also, if she nips him and he jumps up should I stop that immediately or see if they diffuse it? I’ve been overly cautious I think because I’m so terrified of them having a bad fight and ruining our progress

[DanaNM]

That sounds like a very positive session. Bertha and Moose have a one bunny per box policy too :p

If it’s just a nip or lunge that he reacts to, try not to do or say anything, but yes, it is really really hard! We all just want them to play nice all the time, but nipping is how they communicate, so it’s her way of saying “buzz off”, so him moving means he got the message. I actually get more concerned when one nips and the other doesn’t leave! At this point, it is very unlikely that a nip or two will immediately turn into a tornado. If she nips, and he turns to face her, that can indicate a scuffle brewing, but still try to give it a few seconds to see what happens. If they start boxing or circling, then you can diffuse it. I would try to count to 3 (slowly!) before doing anything. When I was marathoning often I was sitting near them but not actually looking at them, and sometimes I would hear some commotion. The instinct is to stop it immediately, but it almost always would resolve itself after a second or two, and I think that it was all important for them finally accepting the hierarchy.

I will also mention that getting into these longer sessions, it’s normal to have ups and downs within a session. Mine would often be a little antsy for like 30 min, then settle down for a couple hours, then antsy/nippy/jumpy for 15-20 min, then settle back down again for several hours, and repeat. I think it’s all important for them to be like “Oh… this other bunny still isn’t going away… well I guess we better get used to it.”

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Sirius&Luna]

Didn’t you recently buy a pop-up pen thing for outside? That would be neutral I assume? You could also even try outside tbh, I think at this point try different things to get them through this bump.

I ignored nipping between my two unless it escalated, which after the first week or so it didn’t. Sometimes Luna would just nip Atlas to get him to move, and he would overreact and run off like a crazy bun, but then that was it. If I had kept intervening there then he doesn’t realise what he’s doing to annoy her.

I really doubt your two are going to have a bad fight at this stage. Of course, you should still monitor them, but don’t let your fear of that stop them from working it out themselves.

Can you take a book or something with you? I always had a book in the bathroom, and would only look up when there was noise. It makes it easier to not stress if you have a distraction, but you’re still there and close enough to stop anything immediately.

I think you’re doing so well, try not to get too discouraged. Remember also, my bonding was Luna and Atlas’s second go round after a professional had given up, so it will happen eventually! <3

[Deleted User]

Oh I didn’t know that about your two! I’ve been so jealous because it seems to have gone so smoothly for you XD

This weekend was absolutely lovely so we did go outside! Thursday, Friday and Saturday. They were actually totally fine besides maybe one minor scuffle each time. They were flopping a bunch and grooming and seemed to really enjoy it so they were outside for about 3 hours each day. But they would make me so mad because they just start acting up a bunch when we went inside to the kitchen. -.-

Yeah I usually have my textbooks to study or if I’m feeling lazy I’ll watch tv on my laptop. Yesterday I felt good about actually. He lunged at her a few times but didn’t follow with a bite. A few times Ophelia nipped his ear. I’m wondering if she really does it on purpose though or if she doesn’t mean to? It happens when she is just grooming his ear and then gets to the spot near the top of his ear where it’s patchy and she just kinda starts biting at his little tuft of fuzz. He’s a mini lop and he’s got some little patchy areas on the top that’s just a very dense tuft of fur, like it hasn’t grown in all the way. I can tell when she truly means to nip him because she turns her head sharply to do it. But this seems like an accident almost or that he is just taking it the wrong way and gets upset and starts shaking his head.

[Sirius&Luna]

Haha no, I thought that might be reassuring. There were many tears the day the professional bonder said she couldn’t bond them, while I overdramatically tried to decide which one to keep  then I realised I was being ridiculous  She tried a few times and they wouldn’t stop fighting and had to be separated for their own safety (thankfully i didn’t witness it, I wouldn’t have coped!). So yes, mine were relatively easy this time round, but that was coming back from a very low point!

Sounds like you’re doing well outside. Can you use the outside pen in the house? Or is there not enough space? I also read that spraying some vanilla around masks other smells and makes non-neutral places at least smell neutral.

Rabbits do nip in their grooming, sometimes when Atlas is licking me he gives me a little nip. So I imagine she’s just trying to groom him and he’s overreacting (I would watch Atlas massively overreact to Luna sometimes too, even though I could see perfectly well that she hadn’t hurt him). Hopefully in time Ophelia will learn that he doesn’t like it and will change her behaviour accordingly? I think you need to leave them to sort that out themselves though.

When you say they’re acting up in the kitchen, what do you mean? Can you just leave them to work through it?

On another note, we had a huge storm in the UK called Ophelia yesterday and it made me think of your bunny! 

[Deleted User]

hahaha that’s funny about the storm!

What I mean in the kitchen is that they literally just act up. Just out of the blue they’ll go from fine for 2 or 3 hours to nipping and picking fights every 10 minutes. Then back to fine for half an hour or an hour and then back to just bickering often. So at that point I get really frustrated with them and usually go in and hang out and pet them for a while then separate. But I don’t want to reinforce the idea that if they fight, the other will go away. So I try to push through, but after a mentally exhausting day of work and school, if they just keep picking fights I don’t have the tolerance for it. Hopefully they were just getting sick of the kitchen.

I’ve tried using that pop up pen inside, but they just non stop fight. I guess outside they are fine because its a more stressful environment but when I put them in it inside they just lunge and circle. They probably don’t like their space so restricted inside. Outside they literally fall asleep together in that thing lol

[Sirius&Luna]

It sounds exhausting!

When they pick fights does it escalate to dangerous levels where you have to intervene? Or is it just a bit of nipping?

I’m all out of suggestions, but sending support!

[Deleted User]

I don’t ever just sit out and let it continue. Which I know I need to let them do so they can come to terms and figure it out. If I do nothing, sometimes it turns into nothing and sometimes it turns into a minor chasing/scuffle thing.

I know LOL I have no more words for these two

[DanaNM]

All I have to add is that they may be learning if they start bickering they will get to leave the kitchen (and/or will get some pets). So, be very aware of when you choose to end the date, and when you choose to pet them. If you think they will fight after 2 hours, and you don’t have the energy to push past to 4, then end it at 2. If you always aim for 3, and they start fighting at 3, and then you end it shortly after that, they are learning that they can get what they want by behaving that way!

If they do squabble, try to wait until they are both lounging comfortably again for at least 10-15 minutes before ending the date. And try your hardest not to pet them to make that happen. They can be manipulative little creatures (but really they are just being positively reinforced for behaviors you don’t like)!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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