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Forum DIET & CARE New Elderbun Diet Help – Now GI Statis :(

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    • Deb
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        Hi!  I recently took in a Lionhead rabbit named Marshmallow who needed a new home.  He’s going to be 10 years old in January.  I’m looking for help in how to get him converted to a better diet.  But first I’m going to give some relevant background info that I hope will help anyone who might have advice.

        Life with former owner

        The woman who had to give him up had him since he was a baby.  He lived primarily in a 29″ x 18″ cage with food dish, water bottle, & hay rack.  He did get out occasionally to roam.  He had hay in the rack, and she said he likes timothy but not alfalfa.  He was given free-choice feeding of a pellet/seed/dried fruit/oat mix.  For greens he got things like romaine lettuce, carrot tops, and spinach.  (I am not sure how often or how much.  She said sometimes he’d eat them and sometimes not.)  He got rolled oats sprinkled on his food every few days, and was given Cheerios as a treat.  The first time he ever saw a vet was last year — visits in February and October for dental procedures.  

        Life with Me

        I set up his cage (bottom only) in a 4′ x 4′ exercise pen.  He has his water bottle and I just added a ceramic water bowl as well.  I have been mixing his old food with Oxbow Rabbit Essentials, starting with a 3:1 ratio, but I’ve been picking the seeds and dried fruit pieces out of the old food first.  I have been putting timothy hay in the rack, and in the cage bottom opposite where he goes to the bathroom.  I started out giving him about a 1/2 cup of mixed greens — so far I’ve offered romaine, arugula, chard, kale, and parsley.  I also gave him a piece carrot on two occasions.  I have sprinkled a very small amount (literally a pinch) of rolled oats on his food a few times.  I do not give him *any* treats otherwise (no Cheerios!).  He had a wellness check with a rabbit-savvy vet yesterday.

        The Issues

        – As far as I can tell, he is eating very little (if any) hay.  This may be due to the fact that he needs dental work again, but the fact that he does need dental work again leads me to believe that maybe he hasn’t been eating much hay for a while.  (He has an appointment for surgery.)

        – For the first 5 days he ate the greens quite well.  For the past 4 days he hasn’t wanted to touch any greens, even what he pigged down before.  Last night he did eat some shredded carrot I mixed with some greens to try to tempt him.  He’s very adept at picking out only what he wants!

        – In the vein of picking out only what he wants… I’m pretty sure he’s eating mostly just his old food and only limited amounts of the Oxbow.

        The 20Million Dollar Question

        How do I get a bunny who’s been eating what is essentially junk food for the past 9 1/2 years to switch to a better diet?  I’m not comfortable with restrictions, at least not until he’s had his teeth taken care of.  And I am talking to the vet about this as well.  But any suggestions for things I can do once I know his mouth is straightened out would be much appreciated!


      • Bam
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          You do have to take it very slow. If he’s 9.5 years old his old diet can’t have been extremely unhealthy, plus he most likely has good genes that can compensate for a less than ideal diet. Or he wouldn’t be alive at this wonderful age for a bunny.

          My elderbun Bam needs to lose weight and he’s not big on hay, so his vet has said he can eat fresh grass. If you have somewhere safe (no pesticides, no racoons) where you can cut som fresh grass for him, that could be an option to help increase the wear on his teeth and the amount of fiber for his tummy. Hay is dried grass but to most buns, fresh grass is yummier.

          It’s good he’s not eating alfalfa, adult buns shouldn’t. Alfalfa and other high-calcium greens can be very bad for bunnies, because bunnies absorb every last bit of calcium the eat and they can get so much calcium in their bloodstream it deposits in their vessels.

          I’d pick out the dried fruit bits and use them as treets. And keep mixing in the oxbow, slowly incresing the amount of oxbow and decreasing the other stuff.

          Rolled oats isn’t really bad for buns, but it makes them fat so if your bun is an easy keeper, I’d cut out the oats.

          Keep an eye on his appetite. If he eats too little he can lose his appetite, stop eating altogether and go into GI stasis. This mustn’t happen.


        • Deb
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            Thanks so much for your response! All I know about his past diet is what his former owner told me. It could be that he ate better before his teeth issues. And I agree he must have good genes.

            I am steering clear of alfalfa, and will double-check on the calcium levels in greens before feeding from now on. I’ll have to see whether I can find a source of safe grass. My yard is tiny and done in flagstones, and my neighborhood definitely has raccoons! I have been keeping the raisins and banana bits in a little container for treats, though the rolled oats is what he really goes nuts over. According to the vet, he’s “lean” so weight isn’t a concern at the moment. He’ll be glad to continue the occasional oat treat!

            It sounds like slow and steady will win the race. And I will keep an eye on his appetite. He seems so good a picking out only what he likes that I was worrying he wouldn’t eat enough. Thanks again! He’s a really sweet bunny and I want to do my best for him.


          • Deb
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              Unfortunately, he did go into stasis. I’m wondering if it was already brewing when he came to live with me… his poops were small and slightly irregular in shape from Day 1. But he was eating and bright. Not very active, but his owner said he was mellow even when he was young, so between that and his age I didn’t expect him to be super active anyway. Maybe the stress of moving, and then a vet visit tipped him over the edge?

              He’s on a course of Simethicone (3x/day), Metacan (1x/day), metoclopromide (3x/day), and Critical Care (16-20cc 3x/day). He’s never totally stopped pooping (so far), but droppings are very infrequent and often joined by hair. The vet saw him Thursday. Physical exam and X-rays showed nothing alarming. He went back for more fluids and an injection of metoclopromide yesterday.

              The frustrating thing is he seems to take one step forward then another right back. For example, overnight he ate some on his own (I’m weighing the pellet dish + contents to keep track) and again this morning he ate a little of the pellet mix (mostly old, a little new) I put in fresh. Then after his round of syringe feeding and meds, he started stretching out and looking uncomfortable again. The same thing happened Thursday into Friday. By afternoon on Friday he’d brightened up. I’m hoping for the same today, particularly since it’s Sunday and the only vet available is the Emergency Clinic.

              Is this back and forth progress/no progress/backward progress normal? The vet found nothing alarming on physically examining him yesterday either, but it’s hard to see him uncomfortable again today. And then I read different things like — keep him moving to promote motility, keep stress to a minimum. These things seem to be opposites to me, and I’m at a bit of a loss. Any words of wisdom are welcome.


            • Bam
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                Movement is good, but it can be stressful if he absolutely doesn’t want to move. If he’s ok with you handling him, you can give him a light tummy massage as in this video with Mary s Cotter: How To Massage Your Rabbit

                It’s very important that he keeps warm. Stasis buns can get cold, and that’s dangerous because it slows everything down even further. If you can hold him in your lap wrapped in a blanket he’ll get warmth from your body without over-heating. You can otherwise place a hot waterbottle or hand warmers wrapped in a towel in his cage, but only if there is enough space for him to move away from the heatsource in case he thinks it gets too warm.

                Oats are not really bad for bunnies, it’s fattening, but often good for a lean bun that has a tummy problem. Let him have oats if he wants that, and is used to oats. It’s not high in sugar and it has good nutrients. When he’s going through an episode like this, it’s important that he eats, what he eats isn’t that important. Hydration is very important too.

                The back-and-forth process is rather common. It can take up to two weeks for a tummy to right itself. Even if he likes it in his new home, getting a new home still a type of stress, and stress affects the bunny tummy. He’s been given the appropriate set of medicines, and that’s great. You can add a probiotic like Benebac if you like, it won’t hurt but there’s no guarantee it works.

                Poop joined by hair is common during shedding, and it’s good if you can brush him often. If he has normal hair, lint-rolling can be a good option. My bunny prefers being lint-rolled over being brushed.


              • Deb
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                  It really helps to know that the back and forth is normal. I’m terrified of doing something to make things worse.

                  I had viewed that video (all the videos by Mary that I’ve seen are so helpful!) and I’ve tried some gentle massage. He tolerates a little bit and I give him a break when he says “enough”. I’ve been brushing him once a day. He doesn’t like the syringe feeding (though he’s getting gradually better about it) and always takes a big stress-bath afterwards, so I figured it was a good idea to help keep hair ingestion to a minimum.

                  Thankfully, I have seen him take a drink just recently, and I’ll put some more oats out to see if that will tempt him. I’ve just given him his afternoon round of Critical Care and meds and he looks a little happier about life. Looking back over the past few days, this might be a pattern — after his morning round of food/meds, he seems to feel yucky, but after his afternoon and evening rounds he seems OK. The only thing different besides time of day is the Metacam. Can that cause upset stomach? He always gets it at the same time as Critical Care so he gets it with food.

                  Temperature has been a challenge today. I’d read that rabbits in stasis shouldn’t get cold, but it’s abnormally hot where I am today and I’ve been equally worried about him overheating. I’m doing my best to find the happy medium.

                  Poop has been very scarce today. Yesterday, my vet called in a prescription for cisapride in the hopes that might get things moving a bit better, but of course since it was Saturday none of the compounding pharmacies can have it ready until tomorrow or Tuesday. So, I’ve been continuing with the metoclopromide.

                  Thank you so much for your support. I’m new to rabbits so this has been a complete crash-course.


                • Bam
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                    It seems you’re doing everything right. Metacam can cause stomach upset and some vets give ranitidine to counteract that effect by reducing amount of stomach acid produced. Metoclopramide is a drug humans get for nausea and gastric reflux, but it works by a different mechanism. Both drugs help the stomach empty itself quicker, which is the reason why stasis buns get these types of drugs.

                    This could very well be related to his dental issues.


                  • Deb
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                      Thank you, again. Is it sound logic to not give him the Metacam tomorrow morning if he seems bright, not painful, and willing to eat some on his own, as he did this morning before I syringe-fed & dosed him? I hate to think I’m making him feel worse by trying to make him feel better…

                      I’m really, really hoping I can get him through this, get his teeth fixed (the left molar is particularly bad… growing right into his cheek!), nurse him through the surgery after-care… and have a happy old man bunny!!!

                      (I have a horse who colicked pretty badly several years back and, from what I understand, stasis in bunnies is similar. Very Scary either way!)


                    • Deb
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                        GREAT NEWS! We seem to have turned a corner. I skipped the Metacam yesterday morning, since he didn’t seem painful. By evening, Marshmallow ate some pellet mix on his own and dug right in when I offered him a small bowl of romaine/arugula mix. And this morning he has been acting more like a normal rabbit than he has since I got him — he got out of the cage bottom/litterbox on his own to explore the exercise pen, threw around the toys I’d put out for him, stood on his hind legs to have a look around… He also produced a decent-sized pile of droppings that looked larger and more well-formed than any I’ve ever seen from him. Yippie!

                        He’s still not eating hay, though he shows interest in it — picking it up and tossing it and picking it up and spitting it out. I’m hopeful that after his dental issues are addressed he’ll actually eat it. In the meantime, he and I seem to have come to an understanding about syringe-feeding that doesn’t involve a total bunny rodeo, so I might just keep giving him Critical Care to make sure he keeps getting some fiber until his teeth trim. (Per vet’s orders, he’ll also continue on gut motility meds until he’s been pooping normally for a couple days.)

                        Thank you so much for helping me through this. I really appreciate the pointers and the support!


                      • Bam
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                          That’s great news! That he’s interested in the hay could be because he wants to eat it but cant because of his teeth. My Yohio did the same thing, although with almost all food, before he was diagnosed with molar spurs. A couple days after his dental burr he ate like normal again.

                          I think it’s a good idea to keep up the Critical Care. It has all the nutrients he needs, so that’s one less worry.


                        • Deb
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                            That he wanted to eat but couldn’t because of his teeth was my thought, too. I know horses will quid up their hay and spit it back out when they are in desperate need of a float, so I figured something similar might be true for bunnies, too. Poor Marshmallow has points on one side and a tooth growing into his cheek on the other, so I guess it’s really no wonder he’s not eating hay. I’ll definitely keep going with the Critical Care. Since he’s already lean, losing weight would not be a good idea, and I certainly don’t want him to backslide on the GI issues!!!

                            Thanks again!

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                        Forum DIET & CARE New Elderbun Diet Help – Now GI Statis :(