Help! My buns won’t stop fighting

[KrisPen518]

Hello all,

I don’t know where to turn. I adopted 2 male rex mixs about a month ago. ( adopted at 11 weeks so they are now about 4 months old.) Sunday morning I woke up to (then un neutered buns) circling and biting each other. Completely out of the blue, I have NEVER seen them show anything but love toward each other (they were litter mates and have never been apart.) I look under the hood and behold puberty had struck. I immediately separated them for about 5 min, put them back in their pen and they acted like nothing happened (The fur patches everywhere said otherwise.) I seperated them by a pen in between when i went to work, came home opened up their whole area ( cage, pen, running area) for a good 8 hours(monitored of course) . No issues.

Monday morning. I woke up to them nipping at each other through the wires of the cage (I seperated them over night). The one was passing around and trying to get to the tan one inside the cage. I couldn’t see what the tan one was doing. Same protocol as yesterday and they were fine. I took them the same day to get neutered (yesterday.) They were in seperate carriers all day. Got them home, kept them together all night. No issues, same as yesterday. ( best buds in the world.)

Now, this morning -_- I have them completely seperated so that they can’t get near each other. I put down hay in all the litter boxes, opened it up and within 30 seconds ATTACK! Up to this point it was circling and nipping but today was bad. Scratching, clawing screaming. So upsetting. I was able to break it apart and grab tan one. We walked away for about 5 min. I took both boys into the bathroom (neutral territory) and the brown one was moving exploring and having fun. The tan one sat there, not completely down and terrified, but definitely on guard and scared. I then let them eat a little in seperate cages, theb let them in the running area. The brown one started following and nipping tan and it started to escalate. I broke it up and they are now in their seperate cages.

Any thoughts/advice on how to proceed from here? I know it takes about 2 weeks after the neuter for the hormones to calm down. I’m just worried that this bonded pair will escalate to breaking completely. I did not really pay attention to who instigated the first 2 days, but it was apparent on the third that the brown one is the bully. I switch them 2 times a day between the two pens so they won’t get territorial. PLEASE HELP!!

This is my first time posting, sorry if i reposted/did it wrong. Thanks for reading!

[joea64]

You need to keep them strictly apart from this moment on, in separate cages/habitats at least 6 inches (or even 10) apart, and not permit them any physical contact with one another for at least a month while they heal and while their hormones dissipate. Because of the repeated fights they’ve already had both before and after they were neutered, it’s very possible that they have developed grudges against one another which only a significant period of time apart from one another will be able to abate.

I’m going to recommend that you contact your local chapter of the House Rabbit Society (if you live in the U.S.) or your local rabbit rescue, if you have such an organization in your area, and consult with them about how to proceed. They have people who have expertise in bonding rabbits, especially in difficult circumstances such as this instance seems to be, and will likely be able to help you more effectively in person than we can over the Internet.

[Deleted User]

It actually takes a month or a little more to calm to hormones down. So keep them full separated for the next 4-8 after their neuters before you start bonding them.

[joea64]

What you can do at this point, for at least the next month to 8 weeks as Asriel says, is what’s called “pre-bonding”. That involves, basically, keeping them physically separate, as I said earlier, so that they can’t reach each other to fight, and swapping their various things among them every couple of days so that they get used to one another’s various smells over time.

[tobyluv]

I agree that you have to keep them completely separated for a month or even a little longer. They can’t be together at all, not housed together or out for exercise together. When one is out exercising, you need to make sure that he doesn’t have access to the other one’s cage, so that there can be no fighting and biting through the bars. Rabbits can severely, even critically injure one another when they fight. It doesn’t matter that they were litter mates and grew up together. That all changes when puberty hits and a neuter isn’t an instant fix. Hopefully, if enough time passes, when it does become time to start the bonding process, they will have calmed down and will want to be friends again. There is a possibility that their fighting may have caused one or both to have a grudge against the other, which would make it difficult to bond them, but hopefully that won’t happen.

[Deleted User]

Why do you keep putting them together if they keep fighting? How many fights have you allowed at this point? They should always be separated after any initial fights. Continuing to let them fight may permanently damage their ability to be bonded. You need to do pre bonding for a month. Especially with how may fights they have been in.

They were not bonded before. Baby buns will get along, but once hormones come in, they have to be neutered and the whole bonding process has to restart. They got along because they didn’t have all this hormonal stuff going on.

[joea64]

In fact, personally, I’d separate kits of either gender as soon as they start to get tetchy with each other when they’re getting up in age to the point where their sexual organs and associated hormones develop, even before any actual fights take place, if at all possible. From what I’ve read on the subject, it seems to me that the signs of hormone-driven aggressive behavior should be fairly easy to detect so that early intervention can take place.

[sarahthegemini]

You don’t need to worry about their bond breaking because they’re not bonded. You should wait at least a month for their hormones to disipate before you attempt bonding but you must pre bond first. Having said that, yours have fought. Several times. Because of this they need to be completely separate, so they can’t see or smell each other. In a couple of months, start pre bonding and then progress to bonding sessions.

[KrisPen518]

Thanks all for the advice, much appreciated. I assumed I would need to seperate them, but not for that long. I will completely change the set up i have now and start pre bonding. I also looked up info for my rabbit society.

Thank you all again! I was so upset, but now i feel like i know what direction to go!

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By KrisPen518 on 8/29/2017 12:23 PM

Thanks all for the advice, much appreciated. I assumed I would need to seperate them, but not for that long. I will completely change the set up i have now and start pre bonding. I also looked up info for my rabbit society.

Thank you all again! I was so upset, but now i feel like i know what direction to go!

As I said before, because they’ve fought they need to be given time to forget one another which means no pre bonding yet. They shouldn’t see or smell each other for a month or so. Then you start pre bonding. 

[Deleted User]

Posted By KrisPen518 on 8/29/2017 12:23 PM

Thanks all for the advice, much appreciated. I assumed I would need to seperate them, but not for that long. I will completely change the set up i have now and start pre bonding. I also looked up info for my rabbit society.

Thank you all again! I was so upset, but now i feel like i know what direction to go!

I do agree that you need a complete reset. I had an accidental fight between my buns when I first brought the male home, and after that my female would attack the living hell out of his stuffed animal. I took it away for about 2 weeks. I think it would be best to give them time to “Reset” so that the fight isn’t fresh in their mind. Right now, if you pre bond it will probably just make them tense, because they smell this other bun and remember “oh $#!t I know that guy, I fought him!” lol 

[KrisPen518]

That makes a lot of sense, I am planning for the next few weeks just keeping them completely apart. Thankfully, they seem pretty content without each other. ( I miss seeing them together though haha

[KrisPen518]

I don’t plan of sharing stuff or giving them any kind of contact for awhile. I would like all of your input on the set up i have. The one I kept in the original cage/pen area and the other is in another room/different area.

Will this work or should I trying moving the one from the original cage and pen area? I dont want to see him get too territorial or anything

[KrisPen518]

I don’t plan of sharing stuff or giving them any kind of contact for awhile. I would like all of your input on the set up i have. The one I kept in the original cage/pen area and the other is in another room/different area.

Will this work or should I trying moving the one from the original cage and pen area? I dont want to see him get too territorial or anything

[Boston's Mama]

Completely apart for a few weeks ( seperate rooms as you have is great to begin with ) to reset them. After then you can begin swapping toys , blankets etc so they get each other’s smell. Once you have done that for a few weeks further ( at his point you should be at around 6weeks separated ) if they show no aggression to the toys and items that smell like their brother – then have them penned near each other ( 6-10inches apart ) .

[Boston's Mama]

It’s a slow process – and be patient which I know is hard when you want to see your bunnies back together – but it really is so important.

I did months of pre bonding – from march till July – yet mine did not bond. Some just don’t so it’s important to consider how you will house them if this does not work out bonding.
But if you give them a reset as you are – then prebonding is rushed – you will have the best chance you can have of bonding them from here

[Deleted User]

Taking it slow will be key! I know we all sound like a broken record, repeating the same thing over and over. But really, the time spent pre bonding and letting each bun get comfortable can make a world of difference!

I know that you just want to see them together. Mine are separated by baby gates and I just wish they could stop the nonsense and just be friends already I am a very impatient person, so having to wait this long is hard for me (I’ve been prebonding for about a month and a half, and we still have about 3 weeks to go until freshly neutered Quincy is ready)

I think separate rooms is a good way to start. You’ll have to gauge them accordingly. For example, I would have them in the separate rooms for about 2 weeks. During that time give each one a stuffed animal or a blanket. When two weeks has passed, try swapping the stuffie or blanket and see how they react. If they go nuts, attacking at it and looking obviously stressed, leave the toys and try switching again in a week or two. You’ll want to put their pens next to each other when they are no longer freaking out about the toys/blankets. Then when they are next to each other you can either just switch the bunnies into each others enclosure or you can switch the litter trays/hayracks/bowls. Once they seem comfortable during pre-bonding you can try sessions.

Remember that you should introduce them and do bonding in neutral territory. Somewhere neither bun has been. So if you have a separate room, or the bathtub/shower would work. They need to not have any sense of “this is mine I need to defend it” . They will learn to trust the other and then when they are put back into territory that is not neutral, they shouldn’t feel the need to attack.

Good luck!

[KrisPen518]

Thank you for the advice! Really needed haha what are your thoughts on how I have them now? They are apart but one is in the new set up/room and the other is on the ori ginal set up/pen/ room. Is that Ok? Should I move the original one he doesn’t feel like he “won”The space/is more territorial? Change it up by moving stuff and putting down a blanket? Your thoughts are much appretiated!!

[Deleted User]

Posted By KrisPen518 on 8/30/2017 12:19 PM

Thank you for the advice! Really needed haha what are your thoughts on how I have them now? They are apart but one is in the new set up/room and the other is on the ori ginal set up/pen/ room. Is that Ok? Should I move the original one he doesn’t feel like he “won”The space/is more territorial? Change it up by moving stuff and putting down a blanket? Your thoughts are much appretiated!!

I think it’s fine that way. Personally, I don’t think he will be able to make the distinction that he was victorious over the other bun. He will probably just be glad that the other one is out of his hair! They will make the territory they are given “their own” regardless.

[KrisPen518]

Awesome! Thank you so much!

[Deleted User]

No problem

This forum is a great place for new bunny owners, there are lots of knowledgeable members that are very helpful. I know that when I first got my bun I was on google questioning literally everything … I was redirected here so many times that I decided to join.

So if you have questions, definitely ask!

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