What is acceptable?

[SeaTurtleSwims]

Playing? Not likely? Fighting? Can’t really decide if that’s what’s happening. Working out how the totem pole will go? Is that allowed?

I’m doing a supervised visit right now. As in not in the bathtub LOL. They don’t go into each other’s cages. They seem to respect that space. But they take turns chasing each other around and jumping in the air. No thumping or weird bunny noises. Ears pointed forward. And they’ll suddenly split apart and each run to their own home. It’s really weird. I’m not sure if they’re being nice or not and youtube bonding videos aren’t helping haha. 

Sorrel plays weird. Like when Tolliver is out and happy he binkies. Sorrel just makes a bunch of quick turns like she’s in a nascar race. I guess that means she’s having fun? I don’t know haha Please educate me.

I would like a very detailed bunny body language website if you have any recommendations. I’m only finding very generic ones. It felt very strange to youtube “rabbit fight” and am both glad and disappointing nothing came from it haha

[SeaTurtleSwims]

So I went on to read that chasing is considered an unacceptable/undesirable behavior. I didn’t want to accidentally keep facilitating bad behavior so I tried to ‘remedy’ the negative experience with a car ride LOL an even more negative experience to drive them closer. But not just any car ride. A top 40 radio, windows down in freezing december car ride on the windy roads of back country KY with not only my two dogs, but the two dogs I’m dog sitting as well. I think it worked! 

On a different level, what is your opinion on the ethics of stress bonding? After tonight, I see that it works, but is it Right? When I worked as a dog trainer I kind of prided myself in being force free. This seems…well… not exactly force free just collecting your thoughts on it is all, no judgement for people who use stress bonding or people who don’t. It’s certainly an effective tactic I experimented with tonight. 

Presenting the Bonding Team.

And the results at the end of the car ride.

A

[Mikey]

Stress bonding is acceptable because it shows the bunnies that they can comfort one another in stressful situations You dont want to do it often, but every few days/once a week if theyve had a troubled session should help drive them a bit closer together

Full speed chasing isnt usually a good thing. Binkies when being chased can be a sign of fear (read: “back off!”). I would assume jumping is another way to say “stop that” or “back off” while being chased. That being said, two of my bunnies play by chasing, but its a very slow chase. Bombur will poke Blue, then “run” a few feet forward, look back to see if Blue fallowed him, then “run” a few feet again if Blue is fallowing him, and repeat until both boys are tired or bored

[VivaLaBunz]

Wow I’ve never actually heard of “Stress Bonding”, what an interesting idea!

[SeaTurtleSwims]

Thank you Mikey I guess I am moving too fast by letting them roam around together. Back to the bathtub!

[Mikey]

Not a problem! Its very easy to move forward too fast, specially if everybunny is acting normal for the most part. They are adorable together, by the way!

[Bam]

Stress bonding does present an ethical dilemma. From what I’ve read, it’s ok because it aims to raise the bunnies’ quality of life considerably, long-term. Having a bunny friend is probably the best thing next to hay for the long-term well-being and health of a bunny.

Stress-bonding doesn’t always work though, and it is a form of flooding. Dog trainers often advise against flooding, as you know, since it can make matters a lot worse.

When it works it works though, and it seems to work for very many rabbits.

[SeaTurtleSwims]

Okaayyy Bam, thanks for that analogy. I understand how it’s working in the bunny brain a bit better now. I guess I lucked out it worked in my favor rather than ending in heightened aggression. I think like Mikey said, I’ll only use it in special cases. There’s got to be a star wars line in here somewhere haha

[Bam]

It didn’t work for my (neutered) males, but I had to try. If it had worked, their lives would’ve been so much better. As it were, they had to live in half the apt each, with a gate with double netting separating them. I tried without stress first, of course.

It’s different with dogs I think, they have been the companions of us for 40 000 years or so. They have it in their genes to trust humans and turn to humans for their needs. Rabbits haven’t been kept as companion-animals for very long, comparatively.

I’m really glad it worked for you – it seems to do that for most. Mine wen’t after each others’ genitals, so I gave up after like 6-8 weeks or so. Poor darlings. If I’d known it wouldn’t work, needless to say I’d not have put them through it =).

[SeaTurtleSwims]

I suck I know, I’ll just have to take the karma hit and work to be extra nice to gain it back

She grew increasingly aggressive over time. Kicking, spraying, boxing, growling? I didn’t even know bunnies could do that. I couldn’t change her water/food/litter without getting the snot scratched out of me. I did not let her around Tolliver again after the first time she growled at me. Tolliver has never bit or growled or boxed and I didn’t want him to pick up bad manners. She was very sweet when I took her home, but I think it was because she was paralyzed with fear? As she adjusted it was awful. I guess she was literally never socialized with humans outside of getting food thrown at her and so she was not in favor of human interactions. I was not about to spend $200 to spay a rabbit that was aggressive like that although yes, I acknowledge the spay itself may have reduced some of those behaviors it was not worth the gamble in the chance her behavior would not improve.

Instead, I helped the girl I got her from build a new cage so she can live peacefully and not in a combined housing situation where she was being bullied which was why I took her in the first place

I guess there’s kind of a big difference between house and outdoor buns in socialization which should be glaringly obvious but for whatever reason I thought “this one will love being a pet, I can tell”. Wrong. It was shocking.

I feel bad it was a sad situation all around. I thought I could help, but not at the expense of my face/hands/fingers/other rabbit

[Bam]

Thank you for doing this for her! I’m sorry it didn’t work out with the bonding. I’m not sure outdoors buns necessarily are less social -aggression and fearfulness are traits with strong heritability, so it could just be her personality. Likely enhanced by the fact that she’d been badly bullied.

It was lovely if you to try though, and so great of you to help build her a cage where she won’t have to endure bullying.

Most animals keep a low profile the first few days in a new environment.

My Yohio could growl and box and scratch. He did it quite a lot before we were properly acquainted. He’d been living feral. He and my other bun never got on. But Yohio and I became very close.

[SeaTurtleSwims]

I’m glad you were able to work through a similar situation, that means not all utility turned indoor buns are lost at ever being pets. That makes sense about it being an inherited trait. I guess I don’t know a lot about bunny genetics~ I bet there are some interesting papers floating around about that though.

I will definitely one hundred percent take the consideration of a second bun about a million times more slowly than a one time five minute hallway visit. Tolly is pretty bonded to the cat, and I think for now I am good with that haha

[Boston's Mama]

I be thinking this experience was hard I feel for you!
This ( amongst other threads and sites I have read lately ) has made me question if a second bunny is a good idea… it makes me nervous if they don’t bond , then if they have to be housed seperately ( or even if I house seperate from the beginning and don’t attempt to bond) I’m nervous they will get territorial and spray etc or worse be stressed out by the other being caged on other side of the room …. as much as I would like two I wonder if my boy would be happier and our bond better if he is king of the house with no threats around ( ie another bunny )

[Author]

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