An Interaction in the Target Small Animal Isle

[OhMommaButterGrits]

Alrite well I’m not sure if anyone else here has ever been in a situation like this…probably not since I’m sure you guys are good at keeping your opinions to yourself, but I apparently am not. 

It all started because I need to pick my cat up some food and I happened to have a Target gift card and so figured I’d use it on something that I normally would have to pay for.

Anyway into Target I headed and I went to the “PET CARE” isles and looked for the cat food which just so happened to be in the same isle as their  small animal selection…which was like the last corner of the isle. So as I was picking up cat food I just happened to overhear a woman asking a Target assosciate where the Rabbit food was and so I looked over excited to see another “Bunny Slave”. I swear I was getting ready to peform some like secret bunny parent wave and then I saw the food she was picking up and looking at.

 

Now I found myself torn on what I was feeling and what to say or not say anything or whatever. It’s like I KNEW it was none of my business what this women was about to feed her rabbits and that it was ridiculously soap boxy to go up to a woman I didn’t know and tell her that she might kill her rabbit feeding it a food with all those seeds in it….

It’s like I don’t believe in spanking children (I was just raised that way), but I would never go up to a parent that I saw spank their child in the store and tell them what they were doing is wrong. But then again spanking a kid isn’t going to kill them…

Well eventually I started thinking about how it felt when Panda died and how I just didn’t know certain things being a new bunny owner that I know now.

SOOOO….this is what I said.

Me: “Oh so you have bunnies?!”

Woman:”Yes”

At this point she is still looking at the bag.

Me: “I’m not sure if you knew or not, but that rabbit food isn’t really all that safe for them to eat, being that there are a good deal of seeds and other things in there.”

Woman: ” Actually this is very healthy for my rabbits! I have had my rabbits for seven years and they love to eat the carrots and other things in there!”

Me:”Oh, well I had a different experience myself and I feed my rabbits a timothy based pellet in small quantities everyday, along with unlimited Timothy Hay, and veggies.”

The woman then looked at me like a had said the most horrendous thing ever.

Woman: ” You CANNOT feed them Timothy Hay! I have never and will never feed them Timothy Hay.”

Me:”Well than what hay do you feed them?”

Woman: “None! If you feed rabbits timothy hay they will get diahrea and then they’ll….”

The woman leaned in close very dramatically and drew her breath in 

Woman: “…DIE!!!!!”

Me: “Um…well I’ve known rabbits to die from GI stasis from not having enough fiber that they get from hays.”

Woman: “My rabbits have lived for over 7 years on just pellets and I cannot change them now or else they will probably die. You can’t just change rabbit’s food.”

Me:”You are right about that. It’s best to introduce a new food slowly by mixing it in with the previous food and eventually being left with just the new food.”

Woman: “Stop telling me how to kill my rabbits. I have had them for 7 YEARS  and they are doing just FINE!”

With that she huffed away with rabbit food in hand. 

*END SCENE*

Okay so…all I could think about was how my rabbit died and okay I didn’t do all the right things for him…I gave him unlimited Alfalfa pellets and only a little hay…and his treats weren’t really safe and he died only after a year or so. So how in the hell have these rabbits been alive for 7 years!?!?

….I don’t know I feel bad for her bunnies, but she seems to fervently love them. So at least that is good I guess?

Anyone else have a similar experience where you just couldn’t keep you mouth shut???

 

[Stickerbunny]

Heh, not with strangers as I tend to keep to myself and don’t even pay attention to what other people are doing in stores… but with family quite often.

Problem is, people get so DEFENSIVE. I find the best approach is to mention it like “At X store you can get X food, it’s around the same price but recommended by X magazine”. For most people, as soon as you say they are doing something bad for their animal… it’s an automatic shut down, they stop listening and usually stop making sense.

And as for how they lived 7 years… I know people who do all the WRONG things for their birds, but the bird lives to be old. Same with dogs. Sometimes an animals will to live overpowers an owners ignorance.

[OhMommaButterGrits]

Stickerbunny-
Yeah…generally I do not say anything with out getting someone’s permission first because in any relationship whether a stranger or a relative we all get defensive when something is pointed out wrong. Espescially if you don’t have someone’s permission to talk to them about it first. Like if someone isn’t open to talking about it in the first place then they are definitely going to be defensive.

I really don’t know what I was thinking…blek I guess I was just thinking of those bunnies and my own loss…I got WAYYY to personal in the Target isle lol And I am generally a pretty shy person haha Oh well!

[Elrohwen]

I was most surprised at her reaction to feeding hay. Who the heck told her that feeding timmy hay would kill them?! I don’t think the seeds and things will be the death of her bunnies – they’re probably just fat – but it’s sad that they haven’t had any hay.

When we were looking for a house we saw three that had rabbits. The first had a tiny bunny in a small-ish cage, but he looked well cared for in general. The second house also had a nethie in the exact same cage, but with the pellet + seeds food. I felt bad for it, and it was really fat, but it seemed content and was happy sitting on the kids’ laps being petted, so he was a good bunny for that home.

The one that makes me feel the worst is the house we bought – they have a hutch bunny outside. It’s a nice hutch and he seems well taken care of and always has veggies when we’ve been there, but the last time it was pouring rain and I felt so bad for him!! The family seemed to love him and said he had to live outside because their daughter had severe allergies, so I give them credit for making it work and not giving him up, but I did feel bad for the little guy knowing how spoiled my buns are.

It’s not always easy to see people with the same pet as us who don’t the same amount of trouble learning about their care, but it is nice to know if they’re loving owners who are really doing the best they can.

[OhMommaButterGrits]

That was the biggest thing for me was like how in the world could you think that timothy hay is going to kill a rabbit???!?!?!? Like how did someone come to that conclusion? I mean I’m pretty bad at the jumps I make in my head, but I can’t for the life of me understand how someone made that jump?

I’m glad at least all the houses you saw with bunnies did at least care for them to the best of their ability and truly loved them. I think that that is all you can hope for I just hope that eventually more and more bunny owners will take that love they have and develop more knowledge about their pets.

I was thinking about it too. I mean I can’t blame the lady for not seeking more views on rabbit care because nothing terrible has happened to her rabbits for 7 years. To be honest I’m not sure if I would of found out more about owning a rabbit if Panda hadn’t died.

[Tate]

I used to work in a big chain pet store and came across this all. the. time. Not necessarily with small animals- hammies, gerbils, buns, guineas… I could generally steer people to the correct food easily. But MAN when it came to dogs and cats…!!!! It’s not like I always knew the best thing to feed my pets either… My cat used to get Iams and Science Diet and *gasp* Purina. But at least I was open to learning about proper nutrition!!! Haha! People do get so defensive of their animals. They just need to realize that it’s not that they are TRYING to kill their animals or do the wrong thing. They just don’t know any better. *sigh*
At least you tried and do try to feel good about that. It takes a real advocate to have a showdown in the Target pets aisle.

[OhMommaButterGrits]

Oh wait so what should I feed my cat? haha see look I’m learning something new too!!!

Hey see I don’t always know the right things either, but I’m always open to learning new things.

Hahaha and thanks, I don’t really normally frequent Target for their pet isle sooo I guess that place just brings out the fighter in me =)

[kralspace]

lol….Tate. I know you’re passionate about that, but my cats/dogs have eaten*gasp* purina one*gasp* foods all their lives. Sadly in May I finally had to send my dear Floppie dog and my Siamese cat Katie to the bridge only a week apart and it was devastating. But both were just under 19 years old and lived good, active lives up til just days before their passing.

Last week I had to take my cat Sandy to Dr. Erving for an slight ear infection and ran a lot of tests checking all her blood levels and functions. She made several remarks about how healthy she was and what great teeth she had for an 8 year old cat. She almost fell over when I told her Sandy was 14 years old…lol. No, it’s not the gourmet food for pets, but balanced out with other lifestyle factors I’ve always had good luck with Purina One.

Maybe we’re the exception, but my buns all thrive on purina rabbit chow in the green bag. I had to sit in a mechanic’s waiting room for a long time 2 years ago and the fellow next to me turned out to be a researcher in Purina’s rabbit division of all things (he gave me his business card to prove it…lol) We talked about how that line of feed was being geared for pets, not meat or show rabbits, and that their needs changed because they lived longer lives as pets. True, mine don’t get a lot of pellets, but I’m comfortable feeding them the Rabbit Chow. They get lots of hay and veggies, and Toby even sneaks the cat food on occasion.

[Monkeybun]

My mom had a cat that used to eat Iams… she had to stop it as the poor kitty kept getting sick, bladder stones, urinary infections, etc. After switching from Iams, he was good to go for another 10 years. He lived to be 18

[MimzMum]

I personally would have a hard time watching someone deliberately decide to feed their pet something bad for them, but as everyone else has said, you just can’t talk to some people. They know what they know and that’s the end of it. I enjoy having someone ask me what I feed my pets and how they do with it and I try to give educated answers. If I don’t know something, I don’t make a fuss if someone else seems to know more, I take it in stride, go to my vet or the net and get other opinions. What’s wrong with having an open mind…as long as nothing is falling out, right?

Meh. People are getting more hard-a$$ed all the time. I do feel sorry for the bunnies though.

MB, I’ve been that gamut with pet foods for both dogs and cats. All my cats now eat stuff that must be horrendous for them, but it’s the litter box results that keep me from getting them anything else. Tooey has terrible trouble in the potty and so gets what looks like a rubbish packaged food called Soulistic Luna Tuna. It’s a tuna she will eat (always important) and it is mixed with a ‘pumpkin soup’ to keep her regular. After some hesitation, Griff will eat it too, but he prefers either Bumblebee tuna or Solid Gold. That since his recent disastrous dental. I want them to both eat Natural Balance, but they won’t do it. So there’s not much I can do to change that.

Science Diet is the last thing I would feed any animal next to Iams or Purina. I just haven’t had good luck with any of those.
Some of my past cats’ diets have been supplemented by Meow Mix though, so I know it can keep some cats going.

[LBJ10]

Don’t feel bad about what happened. I agree, sometimes people just shut down because they don’t want to think that they may be wrong. As for cat food, I think it depends on the cat. Some cats can tolerate carbs a little better than others. The best foods are the ones with the least carbs and many cat people say that even cheap canned is better than cheap dry. I have been trying to get my mom to switch her cat to a low-carb food. Even the new dry ones they have now like Wellness Core, Innova Evo, Nature’s Variety Instinct, etc are better than what she is feeding him now. The reason he needs to be switched is because he is overweight and borderline diabetic. This can happen in some cats if they eat those high-carb foods. Unfortunately, she keeps telling me he will only eat the food she has been buying him.

[brittbritt]

I’ve caught myself stepping in and mentioning the type of food I feed my buns. I’ll even talk up this amazing rabbit forum where I’ve learned so much about my buns and then write down this website for them to visit. Some people take the advice really well and sometimes you see the people who are never going to change their opinion to save their pet’s life. I just do what I can and hopefully help at least one animal in the long run.

[Tate]

Posted By OhMommaButterGrits on 08/01/2011 06:21 PM
Oh wait so what should I feed my cat? haha see look I’m learning something new too!!!

Hey see I don’t always know the right things either, but I’m always open to learning new things.

Hahaha and thanks, I don’t really normally frequent Target for their pet isle sooo I guess that place just brings out the fighter in me =)

LOL, I started where you were! It takes time to learn cat nutrition as it is a bit more complex (in my opinion) that rabbit nutrition. This is seriously a topic I feel like I could go on forever about- and something I feel so passionatly about that it’s spilled over into my life!

It comes down to two things and really they have equal say: what the food is made out of and what the formula is. A food such as Iams and Purina is lacking in both ways… Purina’s chicken and rice cat formula’s first 10 ingredients are: Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, poultry by-product meal, wheat flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), whole grain corn, fish meal, soy protein isolate, animal liver flavor. The first 10 are generally the most important as the rest are usually preservatives, vitamins, and minerals which will be in most [dry] foods. Chicken as the first ingredient is GREAT! Awesome source of lean protein and something most cats are used to which means it’s easily broken down in the digestive tract. Brewer’s rice… it’s basically rice kernals that have been broken down. It’s entirely void of all nutritonal value and it used purely as a “filler”. Corn gluten meal… The cheapest form of protein on the market that’s usually used as an HERBACIDE! Yum? Poultry by product meal… Sounds great on paper. Organs like the heart and liver are rich in special proteins and such. However, it’s highly variable in terms of quality when it comes to pet foods. In one bag of Purina, you may be getting mostly hearts (with some bones, beaks, and feathers thrown in) and in the next bag you buy, it may be mostly made up of livers, lungs, and whatever else they have. Since it’s not specified, you don’t know what you’re getting. Wheat flour… Eh… The only time I see my cat eat wheat grass is when he needs to puke. ‘Nuff said. Animal fat with mixed tocopherols… Fine. Tocopherols are found in almost every dried pet food on the market. It keeps meat and fat from going rancid and should be of no danger to anyone. Whole grain corn… Corn is pretty much entirely indigestable- if your rabbits, who are herbavores, won’t eat it then a cat that’s mainly a carnivore definitely can’t eat it. Fish meal… ground up fish. No problem. Soy protein isolate… It can be ok for human consumption but animals, especially dogs and cats, just aren’t designed to utilize this product. It’s only used in pet foods to increase protein content. Animal liver flavor… What IS that?! How does one get liver flavor without ANY liver?!

7 out of the first 10 ingedients are questionable at best. It doesn’t exactly bode well for Purina. For a good dry food, you will want to be able to a.) know and b.) pronounce the first 10 ingredients. There shouldn’t be any wikapedia-ing of those ingredients, with the exception of mixed tocopherols. 

Further, and this is really not a *terrible* thing but… Iams is owner by… Procter and Gamble. That Proactive skin care line? Yup, that’s them. Purina is owner by… NESTLE. What?

I highly recommend the Wellness Brand, which is owned by Old Mother Hubbard. Other good ones are Solid Gold, Blue Buffalo, and Natural Balance. If you take a look at the ingredients at any one of those brands, you will know exactly what you are putting in your pet. You do it for your rabbit(s), why not your cat?

I’ve had 4 cats throughout my life that ate 9 Lives, Purina, Iams, whatever else was cheap/sold at a grocery store. 3 died before 10. One is still living and had severe health problems… throwing up 4 times a day, excessive weight loss, pulling hair out, lethargy.. all stopped once he was put on an organic food + the addition of butter (yes, seriously) and buffalo burgers. Hahaha

I became very passionate about food once I saw this change and then really applied it to my life. You cannot judge health based on appearence. I went 2 months of having mono and not knowing about it- yet (at the time) was in the best shape of my life. I also discovered I had fairly severe allergies to dairy products and wheat products. I’m 22 years old and while those allergies didn’t kill me, I sure feel a whole lot better without that crap in my system!

MM- Solid Gold is a great food. The *only* thing I don’t like is that the lady who formulated the food for her dogs went to jail because she said it was a homeopathic medicinal- type food. LOL. Natural Balance is good because it’s limited ingredients, but that’s not always better.

Also, I don’t want anyone to think that what I said was an attack on them. Sorry if it came off that way! I just figured that we talk so much on here about really great brands of bun food versus not the best brands of bun food, it would be ok.

OK, enough of that… I will step off the soap box. Hehe!

[LizzyBunny]

I definitely understand where you’re coming from! Whenever someone I know says they want a rabbit, I make sure I get 99% of the facts about them in and then give them the hrs website and binkybunny haha!

My 9 year old dog has lived most of his life on some Iams type kibble and now we have moved him to a very healthy (and expensive) brand called “Wellness”. He actually seems to be slowing down now that he’s on this food!

[LittlePuffyTail]

I probably would have done the same thing in mentioning about the food. I’m very shy but when it comes to animal welfare/animal rights I have a big mouth! She could have been a new bunny owner who would welcome the information. There are a lot of really weird/rude people out there.

I just don’t understand how you can have rabbits for 7 years and not even know their basic nutrition needs.

ps. My childhood cat lived to be almost 21 and ate only Friskies her whole life.

[LizzieKnittyBun]

I think I would have said something too, and it sounds like you were very polite about it. All you can do is try…

I was buying fish food one day in a pet center when someone told me, very confidently, that bettas should live in “dirty” water bowls because it’s closer to their natural habitat.

Yeah, no… you can’t imitate the environment of a rice paddy by letting your fishbowl fill up with filth. That’s a recipe for fin rot.

[Stickerbunny]

Oh I don’t ask for permission… I just kind of am oblivious to people I don’t know lol my family gets unsolicited attention all the time though. Sure it’s not “polite” to give it, but between myself and my grandmother we’ve badgered several animals out of very bad situations – including one dog that was beaten half to death, which the cops did nothing about, but my grandmother convinced her son to give to her so the dog would not die. There is nothing wrong with giving advice to a stranger though – maybe once she gets home and thinks about it without the “OMG THEY THINK I AM A BAD PERSON!” mentality, she might start looking into her buns diet. Maybe not, but you never know

As for cat/dog nutrition that one is hard to get into some people. Yes it is better for their health, skin, coat etc to be on a better quality food but it isn’t likely to kill them in most cases. My mother is finally learning the importance of proper nutritional balance though for her dogs – she got a great dane and has been feeding it Kibbles N Bits, Purina, etc. She sent me a message the other week “My Dane isn’t gaining weight, how can I put weight on her?” And I said to switch to a better dog food than what is found in grocery stores. Nope, not having it. She gives her some other stuff, including human food to try to gain weight. Dane still isn’t getting to the proper weight for her breed. So now she’s buying the more expensive, but properly balanced dog food that isn’t mostly filler / chemical additives / preservatives… and is actually balanced for a large breed (the grocery foods are about 5% less fat content than the food recommended by Dane specialists).

[OhMommaButterGrits]

@Tate Thanks! I really had no idea. Actually my cat was getting Iams and then recently we were just out at a store and were like, “OH we’ll just get her food her!” honestly I really don’t even remember what brand it was but she has always had problems with excessive grooming and I thought it might just be stress. Recently it got really bad (around the time I actually switched her brands) and it’s actually kind of starting to get better now that she is on Iams again…. I think though that I am going to look into those other foods you mentioned though because I am very strict on what I give my rabbits and I really should be with my cat. I just really never thought there was much of a difference and I was actually under the impression that they were all pretty similar. And I am going to tell my dad to try and switch to another brand too. After his cat got spayed she has continually had digestive track issues and been to several vet visits where they advised him to feed her science diet. So he has switched foods A TON and it gets to the point where he thinks of giving her up since she throws up ON EVERYTHING…he’s just exhausted so maybe I can convince him to try something else one more time. Hey I mean the worse that’ll happen is she will throw up again.

Anyway I mean I honestly am sensitive to foods myself (dairy), why couldn’t it be that my animals are too?

Everyone else I think it really depends on the cat, just like people. I mean my boyfriend can eat the crappiest foods and where as I would get lethargic and feel not so great afterwards he is fine. I mean I’m not saying he still won’t feel the effects of that food somewhere down the line, but I just think everyone (and animal) reacts to different things differently.

Oh and I didn’t think you were soap boxy at all, very informative…I want to do right by my kitty that’s why I asked!

@LittlePuffyTail That’s what I was thinking…I mean if someone came up to me while I was a new bunny owner I think I would of welcomed the advice. It was pretty hard to find out things at the pet stores and the internet is not always reliable and honestly at first it can be quite overwhelming being a new bunny slave. Oh and I had a cat that lived till she was about 20 and ate a lot of just whatever (that sounds terrible)…she died pretty terribly though and we actually had to put her down because she was just in so much pain.

@LizzyKnittyBun Yuck…I don’t think I would even attempt to mimic a “rice paddy” in a bowl.

@Stickerbunny I think there is a difference between unsolicited advice and taking a stand for the voiceless. One of my favorite sayings is that the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. I mean there have been many a time where I heard things I didn’t want to hear, but I had to. It’s the only way a cycle will break and if your family member was BEATING A DOG…that’s the point where pleasantries are thrown out the window and someone takes a stand. So kudos to you and your grandma for being people that are willing to say something despite how one might react for the safety of an animal! Give your grandma a hug for me for being awesome! Hugs to you too!

[Tate]

@OhMomma- Just make sure to do a slow transition to whatever new food you try, like you would do with the rabbits. You’re going from a food that’s higher in empty filler calories to a food that is a bit more nutrient dense so it can be a shock to their system.

[Lintini]

LOL wow!!! what a nut! I had to stop myself from giggling after her dramatic scene about them dying if you give them hay!

Luckily the people I have helped in petstores weren’t on their high horse that day! It was worth the effort though no doubt!

[LoveChaCha]

I have a big mouth when it comes to rabbit advocating.. lol.

I used to work in the mall and there is a Target connected to it. I would go in there once in a while to get apple twigs for Chacha bun.

Nowdays, I work in a grocery store and I see pet food on a daily basis… I see a lot of dog owners buy meat suitable for dogs. I just hope that one day, everybody would know how much of an investment an animal is..

[Arthur'sMom]

I don’t think you did anything wrong but you take the risk of getting a verbal-or even physical-assault when you approach people and question thier knowledge about anything. Strangers or family alike. You were just thinking of the animals and reacting from a very personal/emotional experience. This lady is clearly lacking a few “sandwiches from her picnic basket.”

As for the discussion regarding the cat and dog food, Tate, put it so well. All of you who are talking about the older ladies and gents you’ve been feeding the same food for years, I wouldn’t change it either. They are so used to it, they probably won’t accept the change even if it was better for them.

Science Diet is probably the worst food out there on the market. I have no idea why Vets would promote it. They must get a cut.

I am no means an expert, but I have done hours and hours and of researching dog foods which would be the best for my dog. I must have visited 100+ sites and asked many many people (some of my coworkers are also breeders) and I came to the conclusion that Tate previously stated, take a look at the top ten ingredients. A meat should be the first one (i.e. chicken, bison, venison) and corn should NEVER be on the list. And you can change up the food/brands for dogs to keep it interesting, just do it gradually. I personally use Blue Buffalo and Taste of the Wild.

[MimzMum]

Tate said:
I’ve had 4 cats throughout my life that ate 9 Lives, Purina, Iams, whatever else was cheap/sold at a grocery store. 3 died before 10. One is still living and had severe health problems… throwing up 4 times a day, excessive weight loss, pulling hair out, lethargy.. all stopped once he was put on an organic food + the addition of butter (yes, seriously) and buffalo burgers. Hahaha

Butter? Really? My older female has those same symptoms and would claw all the skin off your leg if you’d drop that margarine/butter you’re putting on your toast for her. But we don’t give her stuff like that because 1) I thought cats weren’t supposed to have dairy (milk, butter, etc.) and 2) she tends to really break wind when we do give in and give her any. I think it also caused her anal glands to become stuffed with gunk.
She definitely needed the extra fiber of the Soulistic, with that pumpkin soup additive. It made all the difference in her toilet.
I wonder if she’d eat buffalo now? I should give it a try. She seems to want steak when we have it. She’s never really shown interest in much ‘people food’ before.

Otherwise, good on ya! I agree with everything in that post. I got a real education in animal foods because we got Jenna. I had to research the best foods for her since she has a very sensitive tummy. Yorkies can get pancreatitis, liver failure, hypoglycemia and other nasty problems if you get weak with caring for their diet.
I think cats that lived some years ago on things like Friskies were dealing with different formulas than they have now. Most everything we have in this country is now made in China. They have already been popped a couple of times for allowing poisonous additives in animal food and baby formulas.

My two aged Mack Huskies both got put on Sci-Di when they’d had their GDV surgeries. I literally watched my eldest dog starve to death on it. He died of kidney failure eventually…I mean we had to pts due to it.
Drives me nuts when even good vets won’t dump this company. Do they REALLY have our pets’ doctors on such a short leash? (no pun intended)

[angelicvampyre]

I have a lead in which is great. My rabbit vet (the only in in Australia) does free teeth checks once a year. so when i see somene buying the wrong stuff I don’t tell them I ask they why they feed that, act intrested in their answers explain what i am feeding and then asked if they see Narelle my vet and when they say no i tell them about the free checks, this way a VET can tell them what to do not some random person on the street. narelle said that she has had a bunch of people from my area say “Oh this random lady came up to me in the super market and has like three rabbits and one has major teeth issues and cost her a bomb so she recommended that i get their teeth checked out…..” She figures between Rufus and I we have pushed about 20 odd new clients through her doors. What i don’t tell them is during the free rabbit check they also get a feed sheet and their nails clipped (as most need it) and also a “you should get them injected and once yearly visits” talk. once you get them in the door once then you will get them time and time again so I am lucky that way. Also Rufus is a walking advert for hay as his teeth cost me a bomb and he is 5 and he never had hay until I got him and he still does not eat it!

[LoveChaCha]

I think we all should be educated on pet foods.

The thing with China – a lot of our stuff is made there because it is ‘cheap’ to us. If we were to make everything in the US, it would be sky high. Basically, I understand that a lot of people want things made in the US, but it would mean paying workers high wages, and thus = the product would be expensive. It also goes along with the demand. Demand demand demand. It comes down to it. So cheap fillers (CORN.. ugh) help keep the price down and the food can be made quicker to fill the demand of food / products

I tell people: LABEL READ.
It is disgusting how much crappin corn is in food that there shouldn’t even BE corn *goes off to gag*

Off to give Chacha some more hay..

[Tate]

Posted By MimzMum on 08/02/2011 09:01 PM

 Butter? Really? My older female has those same symptoms and would claw all the skin off your leg if you’d drop that margarine/butter you’re putting on your toast for her. But we don’t give her stuff like that because 1) I thought cats weren’t supposed to have dairy (milk, butter, etc.) and 2) she tends to really break wind when we do give in and give her any. I think it also caused her anal glands to become stuffed with gunk.

Lol, I know! SO random! But hey, it works for him. I’ve *heard* that cultured milk products like butter and yogurt are easily digested in both cats and dogs although I haven’t seen any actual research. I do still believe that a teaspoon or less of yogurt is ok to give them, especially once they’ve finished a course of antibiotics. I think in that case the good (being that you’re adding good bacteria to the gut) can outweigh the bad. 

My oldest cat, Ritchie, died of kidney failure due to Science Diet too! I understand that some animals do need a very special and unique diet and sometimes Prescription Science Diet is the answer, but the stuff you can buy in pet stores is terrible! I don’t think vets have jumped on the healthy diet bandwagon yet. When Ritchie was diagnosed with kidney failure, the doctor said he was getting too much protein in his diet.  I thought cats were carnivores??? 

Arthur’s Mom- that is a good point… Older cats and dogs probably shouldn’t be switched. 

[LBJ10]

The cats I grew up with were both fed Science Diet. They both died of cancer, tumors in their mouths (exact same spot). Creepy.

[LoveChaCha]

Gah. Science and food have nothing good when you mix them together >_<

[MimzMum]

High protein I think is the actual cause of kidney failure. I know that my Grandfather, in his last illness, had glomerulonephritis … basically his kidneys failed him very slowly and that was topped with vasculitis, which meant his circulatory system just broke down and disintegrated. He was put on dialysis too late. He had been given an almost no protein diet because that’s what was blocking his kidneys and causing them to malfunction.
And yes, the elimination of protein in a carnivore’s diet is just about a death sentence. I didn’t realize it until it was too late. I watched a dog who was easily about 160+ pounds grow to a skeletal weight in roughly twelve months. It was awful.

Brit, it’s not just that it’s corn and it’s cheap. I think just about all our corn now is genetically engineered. Plus most of it is grown for ethanol now, isn’t it? All I know is, due to the allergic reaction I get from it, I haven’t been able to eat it in years.
I have to buy food for my pets that’s expensive anyway, why can’t it be made in America?

[Monkeybun]

IF I were ever to get a dog, HUGE if there, I would probably feed it a raw meat diet, organic local meat. No processed crap.

My mom’s kitty,t he one with iams, he got alot better when we fed him more raw meat too. Kitties are carnivores after all, not chemical composters. He got alot better with having chicken or beef every day at dinner time, with a bit of dry and canned food (usually tuna) for the rest of the day.

[MimzMum]

You gotta wonder how good the tuna’s going to be this year with so many migrating from the Fukushima area.

[Tate]

Posted By Monkeybun on 08/02/2011 10:45 PM
IF I were ever to get a dog, HUGE if there, I would probably feed it a raw meat diet, organic local meat. No processed crap.

My mom’s kitty,t he one with iams, he got alot better when we fed him more raw meat too. Kitties are carnivores after all, not chemical composters. He got alot better with having chicken or beef every day at dinner time, with a bit of dry and canned food (usually tuna) for the rest of the day.

This is what I would do too! At the very least, I’d incorporate it a lot but I’d settle for making my own dog or cat food. 

[Malp_15]

If you do use the raw diets for dogs you need to mix veggies in, because they won’t be getting all the needed nutrients from The meat. I’ve also seen mixes you can buy for the meat to ensure you’re feeding a well rounded diet. I’ve seen some horror stories of raw meat diets from very uneducated people, so I’m always leery when I hear of people using them obviously if done right they’re fine, maybe its the vegetarian in me haha my favourite story was when this lady came in and was complaining about all the by products in pet food, then she said she was feeding only the innards to her dog. And not the good stuff, the heart and liver went to the cat. We were like ummm…. Haha

[MimzMum]

There are plenty of good home cooked recipes for dogs (not just Yorkies) on my favorite Yorkshire Terrier website. If you’d like I’ll PM you the URL, not sure I can post it here.
I used to think that you could turn a dog vegetarian with the recipes in one of my cookbooks that supports getting animals “off the grid” so to speak of commercially prepared foods. But personally, I think they must have that animal protein to be healthy. They can certainly digest some of the veggies much better than cats can though. And cats need Taurine to have a complete diet, so you’ll see supplements of that out there too.

[LittlePuffyTail]

I feel the need to mention, regarding cat and dog foods, the majority of grocery store/vet pet foods are tested on animals. I don’t mean that they feed the cats the food and then ask if they like it. They feed them and then cut them up to see what it does to them. Then when they are no longer needed, they are killed. A lot of stray animals in the U.S. end up at these labs. The pet store where I shop has a lot of more natural, holistic options that are cruelty-free. I don’t want to feed my cats something that caused other cats suffering. Iams and Eukaneuba are particularly cruel companies. You can find a list of cruelty-free pet food companies here: http://www.peta.org/living/beauty-and-pers…earch.aspx

This lady is clearly lacking a few “sandwiches from her picnic basket.”

This is one I’ve never heard before. I like it.

[flopsydobinkies]

Tate, for some reason you mentioning giving your cats butter made me think of my fatass 17-pound black kitty at my parents’ house– her fur is sooo soft! The techs at her vet once asked my mom how she got Inkie’s fur so silky. Answer: the tub-o-guts likes to steal bacon grease while everyone’s distracted during breakfast! She’s a good kitty, though. When I was depressed in high school, sometimes I’d go on crying jags while my parents were out, and Inkie always found me and purred and rubbed all over me until I stopped crying.

[lwayne]

Some one please explain to me why companies like Kaytee sell rabbit food like that in the first place??

If all the experts (vets) say that is unhealthy, why would they (companies) make it? You’d think companies would sell the appropriate food..

People assume if they company sells it, it must be ok to feed to their pets.

[Joyfull_music]

Because they are a business, and if selling cheap food to the idiot masses makes them money, then that is what they do.

I have a lot of critters in my house. I would love to feed something like Blue Buffalo to the cats and dog, but we would be in the poor house on pet food alone. They get decent food. Not the best, but still better then Kitty McDonalds.

[Beka27]

Posted By lwayne on 08/05/2011 08:51 PM
Some one please explain to me why companies like Kaytee sell rabbit food like that in the first place??

If all the experts (vets) say that is unhealthy, why would they (companies) make it? You’d think companies would sell the appropriate food..

People assume if they company sells it, it must be ok to feed to their pets.

JoyfulMusic is right… Businesses try to make money and they think that offering 10 different options of rabbit food will help.  The majority of people on this site and other “rabbit-educated” people feed Oxbow.  Oxbow has always had two types of food:  a healthy baby/junior formula and a healthy adult/senior formula.  Recently they added in a healthy organic formula.  But you’ll notice they don’t have a “gourmet” mix with all kinds of junk in it.  So if people want to feed Oxbow, they don’t have the option to get a “cheapy” version.  It’s either the good stuff… or the good stuff.  You spend more on Oxbow, but if you keep in mind that the “gourmet” stuff is all filler and you feed Oxbow in such a small amount, pellets are incredibly cheap.  They do the same for all of their small animal feeds and I’d rather support a company like that than buy the “good food” from a company that also makes a profit on selling unhealthy stuff.

[Huckleberry]

at on point I was trying to take a rabbit off a coworkers hands. He had taken a few years of vet school and ran a farm so he felt that he knew what was what. He told me he kept her in a hutch outside (temps here range from -10 to 115) and that he picked her up by the ears and she was ok with it and was easy to handle because she didn’t bite him when he would do that. I tried to educate him but it fell on deaf ears. Later, he lost the rabbit during a storm. I was very sad.

[Stickerbunny]

Kaytee is making food because.. it makes money and no one really cares about animals getting a good diet as far as law is concerned, as long as the animal isn’t starving.

I was a bird servant before becoming a bunny slave, so I already knew how dangerous Kaytee and other foods are – the “small animal” industry though is allowed to get away with a lot – like a large majority of bird toys in the stores use toxic metals that will actually kill your bird. Half the food in my pet stores rabbit aisle are things I wouldn’t let mine touch for any reason (“harvest mania” and “gourmet” junk food). All the cages they sell for any small animal are way too tiny for anything to live in.

And the casual owners don’t bother to read up on these problems and just assume if the pet store employee says it’s good, well, then it’s gotta be great! (Never mind most of them are young adults who know very little about animals in general)

And YES vets get a cut of Science Diet

[lwayne]

 uhg.. I hate Kaytee.  That’s all they sell around here and so I have to buy Kaytee’s Timothy complete .  I hate how thats all pet stores sell.. all the treats are Kaytee yogurt drops and crap like that.  Bunnies are herbivors and cannot digest dairy!  When we move, hopefully I can find oxbow and switch them over.  

[Stickerbunny]

Can get it online for a small shipping fee, or some stores will special order the pellets if they carry the hay if you ask them

[LBJ10]

Posted By MimzMum on 08/02/2011 10:34 PM
High protein I think is the actual cause of kidney failure. I know that my Grandfather, in his last illness, had glomerulonephritis … basically his kidneys failed him very slowly and that was topped with vasculitis, which meant his circulatory system just broke down and disintegrated. He was put on dialysis too late. He had been given an almost no protein diet because that’s what was blocking his kidneys and causing them to malfunction.
And yes, the elimination of protein in a carnivore’s diet is just about a death sentence. I didn’t realize it until it was too late. I watched a dog who was easily about 160+ pounds grow to a skeletal weight in roughly twelve months. It was awful.

Brit, it’s not just that it’s corn and it’s cheap. I think just about all our corn now is genetically engineered. Plus most of it is grown for ethanol now, isn’t it? All I know is, due to the allergic reaction I get from it, I haven’t been able to eat it in years.
I have to buy food for my pets that’s expensive anyway, why can’t it be made in America?

Actually, most corn that is grown (almost 80%) is grown to feed cows and other livestock . Believe me, you wouldn’t want to eat that stuff. It’s like chalk! It is this type of corn that goes into dog food as well. It’s not so much that the corn has been genetically engineered, although I agree that GMOs are bad. It is that dogs simply cannot digest corn. But corn isn’t good for cows either. They cannot digest it properly either because they evolved to eat grass, not grains. Cows on feed lots develop chronic ulcers and that is part of the reason they are all pumped full of anti-biotics. If they didn’t, then the cows would actually die before they ever made it to the slaughter house. So if it does that to cows, I can’t imagine it being good for dogs! You should watch the documentary King Corn. You will never look at corn the same way again.

[Elrohwen]

LBJ, I was going to post something similar, but you beat me to it! I completely agree with what you said about corn.

[Author]

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