Giselle has Kidney Stones

[Sarita]

Apparently she has 2 in the kidney and one that is kind of stuck in the uretha area.  This is a new one to me.  Apparently the risks of removing kidney stones are much greater than bladder stones so right now I’m just waiting to see the results of a urinalysis and bloodwork.

All I can do right now is fluids – I can’t do any metacam for her since it can be bad for the kidneys.

She doesn’t seem like she’s in pain at all but she has lost some weight since I brought her in 2 weeks ago.

Anyone have any experience with this?

[kralspace]

Oh no, Sarita, I’m sorry to hear you’re having more bunny problems. Poor girl, healing vibes to both of you!

[RabbitPam]

!!!!!!!
OMG, Sarita, you are having the worst time with your little ones.

I don’t have animal experience, just personal. I have kidney stones. Fluids, fluids, and more fluids. The way it works is that the stone is being passed, and the “tube” it has to go through to exit from where it orignially formed in the kidney can vary slightly in width. The passage, while a tube like structure, is not an even line as a garden hose would be. I don’t think it’s due to build up, like an artery that gets smaller due to gunk building up, but rather it just varies in shape like your intestines do on a much larger scale. So the fluids push, the stone(s) gets stuck, then pressure makes it pop through and keep moving (that’s what really, really hurts) and it flows along until it gets stuck again. The reason we’re supposed to keep drinking lots of fluids is to continually flush the kidneys of the crystals that form before they can become stones, or at least big ones. Pieces can get stuck in the kidneys themselves and get bigger, and some are too big at that point to even get through the tube. That’s when surgery is the only optiion.

If it’s in the uretha, it’s on its way out. I can’t believe the metacam can’t be administered because she must be crying from pain. If not, that would be great. But once it passes she’ll feel wonderful. After that, it’s fluids and food that does not form the kind of stones she has. I have to avoid oxolates. My Dr. said there are about 12 different kinds in humans, so I wonder what bunnies need to avoid. I get oxolates in spinach, coffee and chocolate (all of which I love). Some people have the opposite type and it’s a different food list.
{{{{{{{{{Healing vibes}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

[Sarita]

Thanks for the info RabbitPam. She honestly does not seem all in pain. She’s not hunched or crunching her teeth – I imagine she’s not comfortable though. I do have to watch to make sure she is urinating if not, then I need to get her back to the vet right away. I have some buprenex I think I will give her tonight though. I think the vet wants to see what the kidney values are and is being cautious about the metacam.

So I guess right now it’s just fluids, fluids, fluids.

From what I understand about removing kidney stones in rabbits it’s much riskier than bladder stones.

[RabbitPam]

Yes, I would expect so, just by the nature of the set up of the organs and their functions. Kidneys are much more internal. (In rabbits, they’re located somewhere around the ears, right? LOL)

Stones can hang out in humans for a long time – not moving, not growing, and you don’t feel a thing. The danger is more when they start moving. So if her functions aren’t stopping, she may be able to live with the stones staying put.

But sadly, my cat Lambchop had kidney failure when he was five, no idea whether he had stones, so they weren’t processing and he passed away soon after he stopped eating. That was more of a kidney disease he was genetically predisposed to. We couldn’t tell early because he went from 14 lbs. to 11 lbs. before he stopped eating, when we saw something was wrong.

Glad she’s not in pain. Flushing and change in diet may work.

[TARM]

Oh no! *get well vibes to Giselle*

[MimzMum]

You mean they can’t even use ultrasound treatments on her to at least help vibrate the stones so they break up easier? Poor Giselle!
No oxalates probably means no kale then, I think that’s one veggie for bunnies that might have some of those in it.
I will keep you all in my prayers, Sarita…I echo other members when I say I just can’t believe the medical issues piling on you & your bunnies this last 6 months or so. God bless you and all your furbabies! (((((((((hugs))))))))))))))

[jerseygirl]

Poor girl! (((Giselle))) Sarita, this is your californian?

Do they test a stone like they do bladder stones to see what it’s made up of? Is there something that would help dissolve the stones to help them pass?

[bunnytowne]

Sarita   healing eating and feeling good vibes your for best bunny.     Hang in there she will be ok

[Sarita]

Jersey, she is my Californian. Right now we are just awaiting blood tests and urinalysis to see where we go.

I have no idea about the ultrasound treatments either MM, I’ve heard of this – I wonder how much it would cost though…

I guess with older rabbits, these issues are just going to be common.

[RabbitPam]

I didn’t know they did it for animals. In humans it’s called Lithotripsy. I had it – it failed. Doesn’t always work.

They determine the type of stone for humans by catching it in a tight sieve-like basket while you’re passing it, then analyze it. I can’t imagine how they would be able to take a sample of the stone from a bunny, but maybe it shows up in crystals in the urine.

Is she any better today? Eating, drinking, peeing?

[BinkyBunny]

Oh gosh, I’m so sorry. I also have heard that bladders stones are easier than kidney stones to do surgery on. How big are they – Especially the one in the uretha? I was told that if it gets in uretha, it is very dangerous depending on the size. I know when Jack had his big stone in the bladder, he never seemed like he was in any pain. (though maybe some of his other behaviors – incessant humping etc was a way to relieve discomfort).

I know fluids are big thing so hopefully this will keep things under control until you and your vet and figure out the best next step.

We had recently cut Jack’s juice mix cut down from 2 cups to 1 cup (as he was getting chubby). We did a urinalysis prior the cutting down the juice mix and then a urinaysis after two weeks of only serving 1 cup and there really was a dramatic difference. So we are back up to two cup minimum serving. It seems to be the only way (without medication) to prevent the return…so far.

It is hard to watch our aging bunnies go through some of these things. But at least, like Jack, she doesn’t seem to be in any real pain. That is good news!

Keep us updated.

[Beka27]

(((Giselle!)))

[Deleted User]

I’m glad Giselle doesn’t seem to be feeling any pain. — how old is she?

[Sarita]

I’m not entirely positive of Giselle’s age she was a stray and was full grown when I got her. I’ve had her about 7 years now.

[Deleted User]

I have had this document on my computer since that rabbit I knew had the large urolith. I will link it in case you don’t already have it.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_disea…hiasis.pdf

[Sarita]

Thanks Petzy – I’ll take a look at this.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

I’m sorry *HUGS*

{{{Giselle}}}}

[KatnipCrzy]

I wish I had some practical advice for this situation but unfortunately I don’t.  She is letting you give her SQ fluids?  Once Schroeder started feeling better when he was ill- he make it clear that SQ fluid time was over.  But he is a feisty young guy that I have only had for a year now.  I am sure Giselle knows you are trying to help her.

[BinkyBunny]

Petzy – I couldn’t open that file. Is it just me?

[Deleted User]

BB, will it allow you to download it?

[jerseygirl]

Link didn’t open properly. Could be because it’s a pdf file (??)  Assuming this is same page I’ve tried link it again.  http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_disea…hiasis.pdf

If that doesn’t work for some reason, try this page http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_disea…l_main.htm then click on “Nephroliths and Uroliths”

[Deleted User]

Sorry about that! I’m glad Jersey is a computer. If there are still troubles to view it I can email the pdf as an attachment.

[RabbitPam]

I just clicked your second link, the one closest to this reply, and it downloaded just fine, as a pdf.

[Sarita]

Well Giselle goes back on Monday. It’s weird, she feels like she’s getting lighter and she’s definitely eating selectively. Her bloodwork came back fine. I’ve been doing sub-q fluids and she’s certainly urinating but not much poop. I’ve started her on baytril per the vet. She’s acting fine but I know something just cannot be right. I think my vet will do some more x-rays to see what is happening with the sludge and stones. It’s so odd to me that I don’t see any obvious signs of illness but she’s not right…I guess that’s the rabbit way. Hiding her illness. I know when I pick her up she’s much slimmer too.

[MimzMum]

Poor Giselle! ((((((((((((healing vibes))))))))) I know that feeling…to anyone else, the bunny looks just fine…but when you’ve spent so much time with them, you can feel those certain shifts in their countenance that speak volumes.

I’ll keep you both in my prayers, Sarita. ((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))

[BinkyBunny]

 I understand that “something not right” feeling too.   So frustrating…”the rabbit way” as it’s so hard to know what’s going on for sure all the time. I know I have to be really aware with Jack because he was so good about not overtly showing discomfort and never had any urination problems with his bladder stones.

Keep us updated with what happens on Monday.   Hopefully nothing major.  (keeping fingers crossed) 

[LittlePuffyTail]

Poor Giselle. I’m sure it ‘s not the same as in humans but I had a kidney stone and was in terrible discomfort for a week. I lost a lot of weight just in that one week.

{{{{{GET WELL SOON GISELLE}}}}}

[Sarita]

The vet also said she had some very minor points that she felt were not a problem but when I brought her back in if her appetite was still a problem we would do a dental float on her. But we she will also do some more x-rays to check the stones. I’m not sure at all what to think right now.

[MimzMum]

A dental float? I just did a search for that and it says it’s used on horses. Is it a device that goes in the mouth for a time or is it used one time to grate the teeth down?

You need hugs. (((((((((Sarita))))))))))) Good vibes still going that all will be well. (((((((((((((Giselle))))))))))))

[Sarita]

Float is another term for filing. Same thing – I promise my vet doesn’t use anything for horses on my rabbits – she doesn’t even see horses :~) She does see pigs and lizards though. There was the cutest pink pot belly pig in there one day – it was sad though because she had to give her a shot in her muscle and the poor thing just screamed. My vet felt bad but she said that’s how that shot is administered. Apparently this pig is bonded to a Wolfhound too – very cute and funny.

[MimzMum]

Oh my, that sounds like an odd couple for sure! ^_^ I had a friend when I lived in California whose mum raised havelina. I guess it would be kind of cute to have a little piggy following you around the house.
Thanks for clearing the procedure up for me…the articles online were kind of confusing.

[kralspace]

Poor Giselle, I hope things start looking up for you and all your furbabies, Sarita.

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