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Last Post by Sage Cat at 9/30/2009 10:07 AM (11 Replies)
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User is Offline bunnytowne
7538 posts Send Private Message
9/26/2009 9:35 AM

Poor Boo all those dumb things grew back on his lip. . The one in the middle is sticking out again.  Drat.

Ohhh Boooo. Get well will you.

I gave him a tiny bite of plum.  He took it and ran off to eat it.   Funny how they do that.

 photo bunnytownesiggy.jpg

User is Offline Furface
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
648 posts Send Private Message
9/26/2009 10:25 AM
AWW, Poor Boo.

I'm going to tell you what helped my cat who had similar chin/nose problems - vet said it was acne & needed antibiotics & face washing each time it reoccured.
The antibiotics were always for 10 to 14 days & vet said it should clear up before pills are done but finish pills anyway.
It always took 3 weeks for it to clear up.
He started throwing up the antibiotics so I decided to try not going for the pills & to only was his face - healed up the same 3 weeks so no more pills for us.

His face was washed during outbreaks only.
Once per day with Hibitane skin cleanser - people soap, the same pink stuff that the vet uses - rinse very well & keep away from eyes - I would ask the vet if this is rabbit safe 1st.
3 or 4 times per day holding cotton balls dripping/soaked with peroxide against scabby areas.

I read somewhere that plastic bowls can house the bacteria so I switched out all food & water bowls to glass/ceramic ones & would spray straight vinegar in them everyday to clean them.

Like bunnies, cats chin mark things so I thought he may be spreading the bacteria around & then reinfecting himself so during outbreaks;
I would squirt all the upolstered furniture down with vinegar every 2nd or 3rd day.
I would wipe all the hard surfaces down with a peroxide soaked rag - check for finish damage in an unseen corner.
I tried to keep the litter box clean & wiped the chinable edges often with peroxide.

I also read that it could be food allergy or stress related.
I could never really figure out if it was food, I switched brands but it would come back eventually.
Today there are more options for cat food.
Bunny food is a lot like cat food then - all very similar ingredience - corn is a big animal allergen though so check for no corn.
Trying a different brand can't hurt.

New litter box maybe - bacteria could be lurking in the scratched or chewed spots.
Try a different litter.
Soak/clean or replace brushes or combs.

Since the meds are not working very well, I'd be trying to think of all other possible causes.
Could it be a household cleaner - try a different one.
Could it be a furniture polish - try not using one for a few weeks.
Could it be your laundry soap or fabric softener
Could it be something in the tap water - try filtered or bottled for a while.
Could if be the furniture fabric - toss a blanket on top or try to keep him off for a while

I'm just throwing ideas out there.
By the way, I had 2 cats & only 1 ever had the acne problem & it would reoccur every 6 months to a year - for his whole 14+ years.
Furry Family: Furry Family tiny

User is Offline Sarita
18886 posts Send Private Message
9/26/2009 2:34 PM
Furface gave lots of good advice! Please keep us updated...are you going to try that cleanser that Dana Krempels suggested...sounds similiar to Furface's cleanser she used for her cat.

User is Offline jerseygirl
Forum Leader
20762 posts Send Private Message
9/26/2009 7:40 PM
BT, do you think the plum or bluberries could have trigggered it? How fast did it come back like this?
Hopefully you can get them to disappear just as fast!!
Whoever says "It's only a rabbit" has obviously never loved a rabbit.

User is Offline MimzMum
Southwest Oregon
8087 posts Send Private Message
9/26/2009 7:48 PM
I also have to wonder if Mimzy's nose trouble isn't due to blueberries (I give him dried ones as treats) or if my little cat, who is always sneezing, doesn't keep reinfecting him with something?
Poor Boo! More healing vibes coming your way! (((((((((((Cotton & BT))))))))))))))))))

User is Offline katie, max & penny
984 posts Send Private Message
9/26/2009 8:17 PM
not fair at all poor cotton. and poor bt!
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User is Offline bunnytowne
7538 posts Send Private Message
9/27/2009 10:33 AM

Yes poor Boo.  I will try that technocare Dana Krempels mentioned. 

The stuff came back full force the whole time I had Cotton off berries of any sort.  So I am giving him his berries again.  I switched his food from Kaytee Timmy to Zupreem which doesn't have soy or wheat in it.  No change.  I switched hay no change just gets worse.

Switched his bowls from ceramic to metal.  I purchased new litterboxes.  Didn't change except for it coming back again.

Hmm that pink stuff Furface mentioned.  I may try that.  I am going to email Dana Krempels again too.  The antibiotics injections made no change in his lip.  He isn't chinning things.

I am really thinking that he has 5 organisms like the vet said from his 1st biopsy and they settled in there.  Dana Krempels seemed to think they may be antibiotic resistant and trying Technocare wash will clear it up.

I can't wait til I can order that stuff and get it on him. 

I did put peroxide it seemed to dry his skin out and make things crack open.

I don't want to do another biopsy on him.  Oh you know what.  His vet said she would send this biopsy  to a pathologist.  Hmmm.  Esther has told me papiloma usually doens't show up on a biopsy and there is a new syphyllis in rabbits that settles in their lower lips and doesn't spread to other buns.  But wouldn't that have showed up in a culture?  She is just giving me ideas possibilities.

This is so upsetting to me. I don't know what else to do for him.  If the technocare doesn't work I will be so upset.

Thanks for the ideas Furface. 

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User is Offline KatnipCrzy
Holland, MI
2982 posts Send Private Message
9/27/2009 12:04 PM


  I know that in dogs and cats a food trial to determine if a dog or cat has allergies to a certain ingredient in food takes AT LEAST 90 days.  I am not saying I think it is the pellets- but it would take at  least 3 months to determine if it was.  And it would be different with bunnies to trial as opposed to dogs and cats- in dogs and cats they have to go 90 days with nothing but the certain food (dry, canned or hypoallergenic treats)- no chews, rawhides, flavored toothpaste, flavored heartworm prevention, etc.

  The only way to trial for a bunny would be to choose a certain type of pellets, a limited number of greens and a limited number of treats and feed those only.  But if the bunny is allergic to any of those components the food trial would not be effective.

  I would strongly suggest trying the Technocare that Dana Krempels advised.  I have read the description and it sounds as though it is a surgery scrub that is well tolerated by humans and pets.  Obviously just make sure your vet knows since it could affect test results if they do a culture and sensitivity.

 If your vet does another biopsy they are going to send it to a different pathologist?  What does your vet think of using the Technocare?  Does you vet expect different results?  Does your vet hace access to VIN (veterinary information network) a website for licensed vets that they pay a yearly fee for but can post questions, x-rays and etc for a second opinion?

  I am not saying your vet is not good, but sometimes a pet needs more specialized care and you should at least consider looking into taking Cotton to a board certified veterinary dermatologist to be seen.  My vets know when they are out of ideas and will refer a pet to a specialist when needed.  I just hate to see you keep doing biopsies and doing the same thing with no results.  I know that I have called the lab that my vet (that I work for) sends stuff to and have requested that the slides made from the biopsy sample be sent to another pathologist (there is a fee for that- but when the doctor feels a second opinion or he wants a certain pathologist to see the slides- we do have it done).

Cotton and Schroeder- Mini Lops Griffin- English Lop

User is Offline bunnytowne
7538 posts Send Private Message
9/27/2009 6:51 PM

Well his vet consulted with a specialist in tampa who called a dermatologist to find out more.  They came up with rodent ulcer. Yet those meds only worked the first week.

His vet isn't in til tuesday.  I have been debating whether or not to tell her I am doing the technocare soon.  I did tell her about it b4 but she wanted to consult the specialist and try whatever she said first.

Apparantly that didn't work after the first week.   I am very reluctant to do another biopsy.  I dont want to keep putting him thru all this stuff. I wonder tho if she is sending it to a different pathologist and where it was sent the first time. I am going to call and ask about that too. Since you mentioned it.  I didn't realize that those biopsy are sent to pathologist to begin with.  Hmmm.

  When I go to pick him up for brushings he still runs around with his tail all puffed then grunts and boxes me. 

Gee so the food thing takes 90 days yikes.  Thats so hard to find out the allergen if they have an allergy. 

I have so much hope when he receives a treatment then it goes downhill. My hopes are up for technocare.  I hope they don't get dashed. IF this doesn't work I will be so lost as to what to do.

HE isnt' feeling too good tonite he didnt' run around like he had been.

 photo bunnytownesiggy.jpg

User is Offline Kokaneeandkahlua
Edmonton, Alberta; Canada
Forum Leader
12104 posts Send Private Message
9/27/2009 6:53 PM
Good advice Katnip

BT I'm sorry to hear cotton is still having trouble {{Cotton}}

User is Offline KatnipCrzy
Holland, MI
2982 posts Send Private Message
9/27/2009 7:24 PM

Reading biopsies are terribly complicated and best done by experts.  There are so many different types of cells and deviations in the cell that not only to you have to identify everything but know what all those things together means.  They analyze what is on the slide, what might be missing, what is in the background, etc.

I type in all the lab reports into our computer system at work- and the reports are confusing to say the least.  There are so many aspects to a biopsy I cannot even imagine for someone can read those all day long- but that is what the pathologists do that work for major labs. 

My vet will sometimes look at a sample/slide under the scope but they are in no way confident that they can be as accurate as a pathologist.  But sometimes pathologist reports can come back very detailed- but other times they do come back very general and non specific to a diagnosis- so that is possible to have happen.  And some pathologists are more known for being veterinary dermatology pathologists as opposed to a general pathologist.  So that might be something else for your vet to look into if you do another biopsy- sending the sample specifically to a vet derm pathologist that is known for their skill.

Cotton and Schroeder- Mini Lops Griffin- English Lop

User is Offline Sage Cat
1884 posts Send Private Message
9/30/2009 10:07 AM
Poor little man. I hope y'all can figure this out soon!
Bun - Buns!
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