First time bonding

[Mark]

Hi, my first post here and first time bonding and rabbit owners for only 6 weeks, but addicted already.

We inherited a rabbit 6 or 7 weeks ago, Charlie, is 6 years old and has wry neck, other than the slightly twisted neck he is fine. He had been in a very unsuitable cage for 6 years stuck in a corner of a neglected garden, oh how is life has changed. A few weeks after getting him and after reading various post on other forums we adopted a female friend for him from a rescue centre. Jupiter, an English spot and 4 years old.

After receiving advice, we divided our 12 x 6ft log shed into 2 temporary homes with a small kissing gate. Left them for a couple of weeks until they started sniffing noses and laying / sitting together each side of the mesh. They have been together now for a few hours in a small separate, sanitised each time pen most days. They lay together, bit of playing but most just sit and fall asleep a short distance apart. But, Jupiter does like to pull fur from Charlies rump, no injuries, fighting or blood. This calmed down a lot in the small pen so we moved them to the ground floor of their new rabbit hotel (7ft x 5ft). All is well for the first few hours each time we put them in their but then Jupiter start fur pulling again. We use a spray bottle to stop her but after a while she repeats it. She knows she has done wrong as she runs and hides until she has dried off.

She is much faster than him and slightly larger so he doesn’t stand much chance of getting away or retaliating.

Any help and advice gratefully appreciated to help stop the fur pulling so we can finally leave them together.

[Sirius&Luna]

Hi Mark,

Sounds like your bunnies have a palace ready to move into when they’re bonded! Lucky things!

By twisted neck, do you mean head tilt?

I have a whole load of questions before I can help really!

Are both bunnies neutered?

What do you mean by playing? Are you sure they’re not chasing?

Have you seen any positive behaviour in their bonding so far? Have they groomed each other? Do they flop together (or even separately)?
Is Charlie scared and jumpy around Jupiter?

You need to go back a step to the neutral space, and stay there until there is no negative behaviour at all (fur pulling, chasing, circling, lunging, aggressive nips), and there is positive behaviour (grooming, relaxing together, snuggling, sharing food).

Once you have no negatives, plus positive behaviour there, you can move them into a semi-neutral space.

[Mark]

Yep, they have a lovely dedicated rabbit ‘palace’, 3 floors. Currently erecting a large walk in run.

1/ yes he has a head tilt, the vet calls it Wry neck.

2/ both neutered, Charlie many years ago and Jupiter 6 weeks ago.

3/ I would call it friendly chasing, they also jump on / off a cushion together, jump in the same litter tray, generally look playful to my untrained eye. Nothing fast and frantic except when the fur pulling occurs. She does lots of flopping, he spends most of his time sat in the classic bunny position, even before we got her, never seen him flopped.

4/ There has been nose sniffing, in the neutral area and between there linked pens, small amount of grooming and they have laid together. Generally, they seem happy to ignore each other and do their own thing around the pen. Charlie is only scared when she grabs his fur. After that he goes back to digging on the pillow. Doesn’t appear too concerned after the event.

5/ I was placing them together in a small 4 x 3 pen in our garage initially, they were good together in there. The fur pulling has escalated since introducing them to the new / larger ground floor only of the new shed. I sanitise every time after use so it should be ‘neutral’ the next time.

I hope this answers your questions. Grateful for your help.

[Mark]

Have uploaded some photos to an album if it helps to see them together.

Album here

[DanaNM]

Fur pulling and chasing often happen when you change environments or give more space during bonding.

When they chase, are the ears up or down? Down means aggressive, up means playful, or “I want to mount you”. At this early stage, keep a very close eye on chasing, and if it lasts more than 3 seconds, it’s good to stop it.

What happens when she pulls his fur? Is there a trigger? Or does she just lunge at him? What does he do in response?

Also, long many sessions have they had total?

I think it would be best to return them to the smaller area until they can be together for at least 4-6 hours without any fur pulling or aggressive interactions, for several days. You might need to do some really long sessions in the neutral space to really make sure they have things sorted out. It can take a while for the good behaviors to cement. It sounds like you may have just moved a bit too quickly to the new space.

Ignoring each other is better than fighting, but you’ll want to wait until you see a good amount of grooming (from both bunnies), and more cuddling, before you move into the new space.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mark]

There doesn’t appear to be a trigger, normally she approaches him, nuzzles him, then takes some fur and runs off and eats it. He tries to run off but shes too quick for him, a short time later he’s back to whatever he was doing but keeping an eye out, doesn’t appear to be too bothered.

Generally ears are up but I’ll pay more attention today on the lead up to fur pulling, my bunny language is not good at this stage but having just read the journals on here it is getting better.

I guess they have had about 10 sessions of a couple of hours in the smaller space, due to work commitments there are some days during the week where they don’t get together but can ‘nose’ through their kissing gate.

This certainly escalated upon moving to the larger space, rather than go back to the original small space, can I section off an area of the new larger space initially, I will of course clean it first?

[Mark]

Thanks for the advice, back to the separate small pen today, totally different bunnies! Had them in there an hour this morning with no issues. Sniffing some licking and hopping into / out of litter tray and a soft cushion. She went towards his rump once but just nosed him, he quickly hopped away with all his fur. Ears on both have been up all the time, even when she nosed him. Ended it at an hour as they were both happy.

This afternoon they’ve been together for 2 hours, lots of sniffing, more licking, mainly each others ears, eating together, and lots of laying / sleeping together, like watching paint dry. She just flops down and stretches out, Charlie snuggles into her mainly in the typical bunny position, we’re not sure he can lay comfortably or stand on his hind legs properly, we rescued him from a hutch he had been in for 6 years which was about a foot tall and deep and about 3.5 foot wide so never had room to stand, hop or stretch out.

One interesting thing this afternoon, when I removed Charlie from the neutral area to return him to his pen, she started thumping her feet until I returned and collected her too.

Really pleased with today, shall repeat tomorrow in the same neutral space and if similar results move on to the new palace Monday but in a confined area.

Glad I found this forum and really appreciate the help moving forward.

[DanaNM]

That’s really great! See if you can keep doing the sessions there for a couple days. My guess is that her nosing him is asking for grooms.

When you’re ready to try the shed again, you can start them in this area, then move them over together. You might also make the shed space smaller to start, then gradually increase it.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mark]

you can start them in this area, then move them over together.

That sounds like a really good idea, thank you for your suggestion.

[DanaNM]

Aww, I just saw the photos on your last post, what cuties!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mark]

Posted By DanaNM on 10/15/2017 10:08 PM

Aww, I just saw the photos on your last post, what cuties!

Yes. they really are.

Sunday – we had decided to do the same 2 hours today but they were doing so well we decided to leave them, then it happened, at the 4 1/2 hour mark I nipped out of the room for a few seconds and as I returned I could hear Charlie squealing, the usual fur everywhere, she was back sat in the litter try and he was in the opposite corner. A thorough check over revealed no harm done.

Upset that this happened again but on the positive side this was the longest they had spent together without incident. I shall keep putting them together this week aiming at only 2 hours and ending on a positive note before anything happens.

[Sirius&Luna]

Sounds like you’re making good progress.

It’s a shame you weren’t there to see what started the latest incident.

I think it is important to keep extending the time they spend together though – maybe they’ll always get antsy at the 4 hour mark, so it’s important to monitor through that and get them spending more than 4 hours together happily. As they’ll be permanently living together at some point you need to make sure that they can tolerate each other for more than 2 hours.

I know it feels very time consuming at the time, but its important to make sure they can spend longer chunks of time together without it turning nasty. What really solidified my two’s bond was spending 48 hours in the bathroom together (I did this after doing 5 hours a night for a week with no problems). They seemed to realise that the other wasn’t going away so they’d better just deal with it!

[DanaNM]

Aww bummer about the fight. Did you be sure to check them over for injuries?

I agree with S&L that you need to work on some longer sessions, as there are obviously some unsolved issues that come up. Be sure not to leave them unsupervised, even for a second, because as you can see, things can change quickly.

I would work up to 4-6 hours, and then once they are good with that amount of time, see if you can work up to a marathon (even if you need to use another neutral area where it’s easier to monitor them). If they get nippy after 4, that’s why your there to stop things from turning into a fight. When i marathoned my two, the would have hours of peace, followed by short periods of getting antsy, then back to peace. I think sometimes they would get bored, so I always tried to have hay everywhere for them to munch on, plus lots of twigs and paper towel tubes to chew.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mark]

Thanks for the advice, without it I may have given up by now.

Popped them both in the car today for a 30 min journey, don’t think they liked the roundabouts or the speed bumps but it sure makes them cuddle. They took it in turns hiding under each other. Followed by a calm & playful 2 hours in the small area

How long do you class as a marathon?

[DanaNM]

Stresssing can be soooo helpful.

I think 8-12 hours counts as a “marathon” session. With my 2 pairs, I have always seen the biggest gains (once we’ve gotten to the “they’re being stubborn” stage) with sessions that long.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Sirius&Luna]

Don’t give up! It sounds like it’s going well, so try not to be discouraged, it’s always a long process. I 100% know the feeling of it taking over your entire life, but it will be worth it when you have two happy bunnies.

If the car journey was successful, perhaps try that before a longer session next time? If you’ve found something that works stick with it!

[Deleted User]

It’s definitely going to feel like you are spending sooooooooooo much time on this. Mine are being super stubborn about bonding so you don’t even want to know how long I’ve been going at it XD

A few things that I think helped my two in the beginning was always starting the session with yummy food and me inside and petting them. IDK if it’s possible for you to get inside with them, but if you can manage petting them side by side and gently smushing them into each other, I found that starting with that for 10-15 minutes made them “happy” and they were relaxed. I would give them a serving of lettuce to share. Another thing I did (my husband actually found this out) was when they start getting antsy and bothered with each other, I scatter some pellets around the area and then they go into food mode. They don’t care what is going on besides getting those yummy pellets. And after “foraging” together they usually calm back down. Some bunnies have food aggression so that might not work for them, but mine are totally OK sharing food.

[Mark]

HI Guys, thanks for all your comments, it really helps and I can’t wait to see them in there new home together. The car journey certainly seemed to push them together.

Ok, currently I am using a neutral space in the garage, it’s hard doing long lengths of time out there and I really don’t want to do a marathon or sleep out there for a few nights. We have a secure, unheated entrance porch, about 5 x 3, we are planning on using this for bonding now as it attaches to our lounge. Although it is unheated, it is warmer than there shed as it is attached to the house, do I need to be concerned bringing them into this area and then returning them to the cooler shed after several hours or longer?

[Deleted User]

hmm I suppose it depends on the degree of temperature change from one space to the other. If it’s not a dramatic difference I would say it’s fine? But it couldn’t hurt to cool them down a little before bringing them back to the cooler area!

[Mark]

What a great day today 🙂 Rained off from work (shame), hurriedly put together the new indoor area and promptly brought them in. What can I say, after investigating, sniffing, they just got on with being bunnies. They have laid together, sniffed each other, ignored each other, eat together and a whole load of sleeping. Even some mutual licking of ears. Jupiter, has sniffed his rump roughly a few times but no nips, he just slowly hopped away, certainly nothing to concern me. They have now been together 9 hours, they were doing so well I just couldn’t part them earlier. Even felt like leaving them in together tonight.

How many marathons do you suggest before leaving them for a night?

Images below of the new area and today’s progression that made me a very happy bunny indeed!

[DanaNM]

That all sounds so lovely!

If that gets repeated next time, and you are able to sleep near them to listen for any scuffling, I would just leave them together overnight next time. But it is very important that you are very close to them, so you will quickly hear them if they start scuffling. Things can change at night, since bunnies are most active then.

Is the shed you had them in before going to be their permanent home?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mark]

Is the shed you had them in before going to be their permanent home?

Yes it is, I’ll try and upload a pic later. Which brings me to my next question, the best way of moving / introducing them to their new, much larger home after a successful night together?

[Mark]

Posted By DanaNM on 10/14/2017 3:53 PM

When you’re ready to try the shed again, you can start them in this area, then move them over together. You might also make the shed space smaller to start, then gradually increase it.

Just remembered your previous post, so, after a successful night together in the small space, can they be moved to the new home in the morning so they can be monitored for the day, or do they need more than one night together with me close?

I certainly won’t be able to sleep in / near the new home over night.

[Sirius&Luna]

That sounds really positive! I’m glad that extending the time helped them out.

I would do a couple of successful nights in the small space first, then move them into the new home for some day time hours immediately after a successful night. I would probably bring them back inside to where you can monitor them overnight for the first few nights though, as it would be dangerous if a fight broke out while you weren’t there to intervene. I personally found it very difficult to tell when my bunnies were ‘bonded’ and when it was safe to leave them alone permanently, so it is a bit of a judgement call, but once you’ve gone a week with no negative behaviours, and with positive behaviours (eg. not just no negatives, there has to be active positives too), then I think general opinion is bonded.

I’m not sure if moving between the two places would hinder the process – I can’t see why it would personally, but maybe someone with more experience will have different advice.

[Mark]

10 hours today, introduced a cardboard box for them to play with and they loved it. They are back in their separate pens now, my plan is, if all stays as is, next 2 days / nights in the small area then early on the third day, in time for breakfast, into the new bunny shed where I can monitor most the day. Depending how that goes I shall make a judgement call on where they spend the next night.

[DanaNM]

I agree with S&L, I would spend a couple of nights in the indoor space where you can be right there with them to really cement them. Then I would move them to the shed during the day (still monitored) for as long as you can. The safe thing then is to move them back indoors that night, unless you want to have a camp-out in the shed!

Since you can’t monitor them overnight once they are in the shed, I would go extra slow with this step final stage. You can move them to the shed whenever you can monitor them, and inside overnight. Try to have them together for 48 hours straight. If you can do that (even with moving back and forth between areas), with no aggression what-soever, I’d feel safe calling them bonded. Each pair is a bit different with the timing on this. Mine took 3-4 days at each new area for me to feel confident that they wouldn’t get aggressive. Some pairs only need a day or two, some more. My first pair I didn’t marathon, but they spent 2 nights together in the semi-neutral space with no aggression and lots of grooming/cuddling, and then I moved them straight to permanently living together in their condo, but I was able to monitor them overnight that night.

Trouble tends to happen at night, but you will have to take the plunge and leave them outside at some point. Maybe you can get a baby monitor so you can hear them if they start scuffling?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mark]

Posted By DanaNM on 10/19/2017 1:32 PM

I agree with S&L, I would spend a couple of nights in the indoor space where you can be right there with them to really cement them. Then I would move them to the shed during the day (still monitored) for as long as you can. The safe thing then is to move them back indoors that night, unless you want to have a camp-out in the shed!

Trouble tends to happen at night, but you will have to take the plunge and leave them outside at some point. Maybe you can get a baby monitor so you can hear them if they start scuffling?

I will follow your recommendations and update accordingly.

Going to be a long night tomorrow with a suitable horror film to keep me awake….

[DanaNM]

Haha, if you’re like me you won’t even need the film. I slept so lightly the first night my two spent together that even one jumping into the litter box had me bolting wide awake!

The things we do for our fur babies …

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mark]

I’ve put 4 of those balls that have a rattle inside into the pen, thought they would be a good audible indicating if anything broke out, problem is, their favorite play time is throwing them! Keeps me on my toes though.

[Sirius&Luna]

That’s a good idea! You are allowed to sleep by the way – just close enough that you would be woken up if they started scuffling!

The first night my two did I kept getting up – once I heard a huge thud. Rushed in and Atlas had managed to jump into the bath and get stuck…

[DanaNM]

How did it go?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mark]

Hi Dana, only 10pm here, just getting settled for their first night. They’ve been together since 11am and all I can say is they must have sore tongues from all that licking each other. Charlies back was really wet earlier and looked more like a hedgehog with his fur licked the wrong way!

Getting used to the jingle balls being moved around now.

[DanaNM]

Awww that sounds so cute!!! Sometimes in the morning Moose will have all these cowlicks (er… bunny-licks?) all over his face from Bertha grooming him. Bunston used to groom Bertha non-stop, it was absurd. Especially considering he attacked her when they first met, and then was terrified of her for months… and then one day he finally decided he just had to worship her constantly like a goddess.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mark]

A really uneventful night, other than the constant licking, chewing and throwing. There was a small amount of chasing and fur pulling about 9 this morning but their breakfast was later than usual and there was a cat outside the window, few minutes later, back to licking. They seem to be all licked out now and flopped out.

How long before I can introduce a house to them? I know this may a possible place to corner each other. Also, when I introduce them to the new shed tomorrow, which will have a sectioned off area similar to what they are in now, how long before I can introduce them to the larger areas / floors?

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Mark on 10/20/2017 3:50 PM

Hi Dana, only 10pm here, just getting settled for their first night. They’ve been together since 11am and all I can say is they must have sore tongues from all that licking each other. Charlies back was really wet earlier and looked more like a hedgehog with his fur licked the wrong way!

Getting used to the jingle balls being moved around now.

That sounds absolutely adorable 

[DanaNM]

Posted By Mark on 10/21/2017 6:10 AM

A really uneventful night, other than the constant licking, chewing and throwing. There was a small amount of chasing and fur pulling about 9 this morning but their breakfast was later than usual and there was a cat outside the window, few minutes later, back to licking. They seem to be all licked out now and flopped out.

How long before I can introduce a house to them? I know this may a possible place to corner each other. Also, when I introduce them to the new shed tomorrow, which will have a sectioned off area similar to what they are in now, how long before I can introduce them to the larger areas / floors?

You could prob try a house in the indoor area today since they have been doing well there for a few days now, but I would take it out if they seem territorial over it. 

Glad the over night went well. Since you can’t sleep near them in the shed, I would wait to move them outside overnight until they are perfect in the morning. Being a bit grumpy is OK, but you don’t want to see any fur pulling. That said, that is totally normal at this stage after the first overnight. 

You’ll have to gauge their reaction when you move them to the shed. If they seem tense, keep it small until they are mellow again. If they seem the same as in the indoor area (relaxed, snuggling, etc), then you can expand it sooner. I don’t know a hard an fast rule for how long in each step, but you don’t want to rush at this final stage. I think two days in the small area, with overnights inside would prob be a safe bet. Then two days in the big area, with overnights inside….. 

With my two, it seemed like all of the sudden I just felt very confident in them, because they seemed so relaxed around each other.  

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mark]

[Mark]

Posted By DanaNM on 10/21/2017 12:29 PM

You could prob try a house in the indoor area today since they have been doing well there for a few days now, but I would take it out if they seem territorial over it. 

Glad the over night went well. Since you can’t sleep near them in the shed, I would wait to move them outside overnight until they are perfect in the morning. Being a bit grumpy is OK, but you don’t want to see any fur pulling. That said, that is totally normal at this stage after the first overnight. 

You’ll have to gauge their reaction when you move them to the shed. If they seem tense, keep it small until they are mellow again. If they seem the same as in the indoor area (relaxed, snuggling, etc), then you can expand it sooner. I don’t know a hard an fast rule for how long in each step, but you don’t want to rush at this final stage. I think two days in the small area, with overnights inside would prob be a safe bet. Then two days in the big area, with overnights inside….. 

With my two, it seemed like all of the sudden I just felt very confident in them, because they seemed so relaxed around each other.  

Hi Dana,
Thanks, will put the house in tomorrow after their breakfast, will follow your advice re time scales as a minimum, thank you.

Anyway of uploading videos here?

[Sirius&Luna]

Sounds like they’re doing really well! And they look so cute together!

I see you’ve had litter trays in and I assume that’s been going well, so I don’t think a house will cause problems!

I think you need to link to youtube or somewhere external for videos.

[Mark]

They have been doing so well together. Saturday, she pulled a couple of times, yesterday once before breakfast and once today before breakfast. It’s getting like she can’t be bothered anymore which is great. They went to the bunny shed for a few hours yesterday and were fine there and they had a house without issue.

Just have one issue now, as soon as they went to the bunny shed the wife was missing them and wanted them back in, so there stay there was cut extremely short. Looking for a solution now to keep them in doors over winter and use the bunny shed and run as a summer resort.

Looks cold and wet today, guess they will be staying in doors with us today.

[Sirius&Luna]

I wonder if she’s getting grumpy before breakfast cos she’s hungry?

And yay, house bunnies! How exciting. It’s so rewarding having them inside. If you look in the habitats section, there’s loads of great ideas for indoor housing. It sounds like you’re quite handy too, so I’m sure you could create something. My dad is in the process of building me something like this, which I’m very excited by.

https://boylespethousing.co.uk/product/4-sided-indoor-rabbit-pen-or-cage/

It seems a shame your lovely shed is going to waste though. Maybe you could do some fostering? (Sorry… I’m getting overexcited.)

[Mark]

Posted By Sirius&Luna on 10/23/2017 4:14 AM

I wonder if she’s getting grumpy before breakfast cos she’s hungry?

And yay, house bunnies! How exciting. It’s so rewarding having them inside. If you look in the habitats section, there’s loads of great ideas for indoor housing. It sounds like you’re quite handy too, so I’m sure you could create something. My dad is in the process of building me something like this, which I’m very excited by.

https://boylespethousing.co.uk/product/4-sided-indoor-rabbit-pen-or-cage/

It seems a shame your lovely shed is going to waste though. Maybe you could do some fostering? (Sorry… I’m getting overexcited.)

Possible, going to give them a few nuggets before their greens breakfast, perhaps that will sort it, not too concerned though.

We have an under-stairs area that is 6 x 3, I think this will be their new winter home. Thanks for the link, that is really simple and cheap to build. All I need to add is the vinyl floor and the perspex door – sorted. They will come out every evening and whenever we have a few minutes to run round the lounge and hallway. She likes sitting on the sofa.

Fostering – no problem in the winter, but they will be enjoying the bunny shed and the huge run when it’s warmer.

Thanks for the ideas.

[DanaNM]

Glad to hear it’s all going well, and yay for house bunnies!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mark]

Just a quick update, they are still very much loved up, 97% of the time, it’s just may be once a day the female still gives chase and pulls fur. Never bites, but I am more concerned that the chase is so frantic that the male get injured from the chase. Once I have waved a towel in to separate they are normally washing each other a few minutes later. There is plenty of hay / toys and distractions in the pen.

I was thinking of putting her in the pet carry crate for a few minutes after each chase so she knows she has done wrong but I ask for your advice before proceeding.

[DanaNM]

Hmmmm, I don’t think the carrier would help with anything. Can you identify what happens to cause the chase? It is always at the same time of day (like before breakfast)? Or maybe when he’s demanding grooms? Is it only in a certain space?

I think you’ll need to identify the cause in order to solve it. If it’s escalating to the point of fur pulling then that means there is still something they haven’t quite sorted out.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mark]

It was happening before I fed them when I got up, so, as noted above, I started giving them a few nuggets slightly earlier, initially this seemed to have cured the problem but, what I am now finding is that the chase tends to happen an hour or so after there nuggets and full breakfast.

Unfortunately I’ve yet to see it actually start to determine a cause.

[DanaNM]

Hmmm, OK. Well I think the first step is to watch them very closely during the times when they normally chase, and identify the trigger.

You might try to break the cycle of whatever it is that’s making them chase by feeding them breakfast, then popping them in a carrier together and taking them on a car ride (or on top of the washing machine, etc), then returning them to the bonding area. This might also be a good approach following any chase (rather than “punishing” one of them), do a little stress session with both of them.

It does sound like they are very close to being bonded, but not there yet given the fur pulling etc.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mark]

Putting them both into the carrier does sound like a better suggestion, thanks.

We have been trying to witness whatever causes the initial chase but without success, however, we have been monitoring the chase and letting it continue a while longer to see if they can sort it themselves. We have those balls with a bell in them so we can hear when something is occurring. After a while we stop it with a towel to gently separate them. One thing we have noticed is that the chase is not so hectic now, it appears to be getting more playful, also, Charlie has started standing up for himself by stomping when he is chased, he never used to do this.

[DanaNM]

Hmmm… are their ears up or down? If it ends if fur pulling, then still not playful.

One other thing to try is to try to get the chase to stop without physically intervening. My go-to is always the vacuum cleaner. I would keep it plugged in and ready to go by the bonding area. If they chase doesn’t stop in 3-4 seconds, I would flip it on. Banging on a pot would prob work too!

The idea is for them to “decide” to stop, vs being forced to.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mark]

Just an update, the fur pulling has virtually stopped, may be once a week and far more playful, other than that. as said before, they are just so loved up I can’t believe it. So much licking, cuddling and even kissing, never seen anything like it! If one strays away out of sight, the other will shortly investigate looking slightly worried until together again – inseparable.

As mentioned they are now house bunnies, they have a run under the stairs which is 7ft x 3ft, just used at night for security when the cats about but they sleep most of the night anyway. They have been with our cat for short sessions without issue. They spend from early morning to late night free roaming our large living room which they love. In the evenings they will jump onto the sofa for a cuddle and either fall asleep in our arms, on the cushion between us or watch TV!

Thanks everyone for your help and giving us the courage to persevere, It has been very rewarding.

Oh, we are now going to be fostering bunnies for our local Blue Cross rescue centre.

[Sirius&Luna]

Wow, what a happy ending i’m so pleased to hear it. And amazing that you’re going to foster bunnies too I’m so so happy!

Well done for perservering! Sounds like they have a perfect home environment too.

Wishing you all a very merry christmas and a happy, healthy new year.

[DanaNM]

That is just so lovely to hear!!! Yay!

Doesn’t it just warm your heart to see them snuggling and loving on each other? Swoon.

Just a word of warning, it’s great that you are going to foster (!!), but do keep a close eye on how your two react to a new bunny in the house. Sometime new rabbits in the area can upset new bonds… but I’m guessing you are going to have the fosters out in the shed? So in that case you should be good to go! You just might need to make sure not to wear the shoes/clothes you wear around the foster buns around your two.

Happy holidays to you all!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mark]

Yes, they’ll be in the now vacant bunny villas. We had thought about the possibility of upsetting them so will take extra care. We have had a guinea pig in there for a few weeks which has now been re-homed, there was no issue there, may be different with Guinea pig scent???

[DanaNM]

I do imagine a guinea pig would be different, but sounds like you have a great set up. Yay for more furry friends!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Author]

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