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Forum DIET & CARE Moose dental drama – *Update: no more extractions… for now

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    • DanaNM
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        Little Moosimus is getting his teeth trimmed and blood drawn on Wednesday. I know this is a routine thing, but I’m nervous! 

        I do hope he feels much better and starts eating a lot more hay after this. Right now he’s eating his pellets and veggies ravenously, but barely eating hay. Been supplementing with critical care to make sure he’s getting enough to eat.

        I’m also nervous because they won’t let me leave Bertha with him because they’ll want to monitor his poops and everything when he wakes up, but said I can bring her when I drop him off and pick him up. He’s just there for the day, so hopefully things are OK with them when I pick him up. The vet office has been working with lots of rabbits for 20 years and said bonds breaking in this type of case are very rare… but I still worry. Going to bring a towel that smells like Bertha to have them put in his pen while he’s there.

        Ugh, also worried that he’ll need this done every 3 months, and then every 3 months I’ll have to worry about his bond with Bertha being damaged… I know I’m getting ahead of myself, but ugh. 

        At least we should hopefully have some answers after this.

        . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


      • LittlePuffyTail
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          It is stressful for sure, having your bunny go under anaesthetic for this procedure. My little Bindi has to go every 4 months or so. It started quite a few years ago, first it was every 6 months then the time between trims kept decreasing.

          He’s 10 now and I get really worried every time I drop him off. He’s due back for a trim soon. Thankfully, he’s a super recuper and he’s back to eating as soon as he wakes up. Some bunnies are a bit tender and will be more stubborn. Good you have some Critical Care, just in case.

          Wishing your bunny a ((((Safe Procedure and Speedy Recovery)))))


        • Wick & Fable
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            Wick is 10mo and has had two molar grindings. It’s nerve wracking whenever your rabbit needs to do a procedure,but grindings are very simple! As long as your vet is experienced and confident, be at ease. When your rabbit is awake and back, providing positivity and comfort will provide the best recovery environment.

            The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


          • Q8bunny
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              The Bertha scented towel and drop-off/pick-up sounds like a great idea!
              I hope it all goes as smoothly as possible. (((Moose)))


            • DanaNM
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                Thanks everyone I’m hoping for a quick recovery too! The sooner he eats and poops after he wakes up, the sooner they can send him home with me.
                I feel like he will start eating soon…. since he is still eating most things ravenously now… he didn’t get the name “Moose” for nothin!

                . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


              • DanaNM
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                  So, just dropped Moose off at the vet for his molar trim, and on my way home the vet called to say that she did her physical exam of him and found an abscess that had formed on his jaw.

                  So, they now in addition to filing his teeth, they are going to extract that tooth and remove the infected material. Hopefully they don’t find any others that need extraction. She said that now this will most likely be multiple procedures… depending on whether they can get it all today or not. And the total cost for all the procedures will probably be around $2000….. ugh. This sucks. I have a savings account for this sort of thing, and Bertha has been amazingly healthy, so I guess it balances out in the long run, but I’m also worried about poor Moose, and the fact that he will need to be separate from Bertha more for these procedures.

                  I am VERY glad I took him in when I did, because she said that we caught it really early, so hopefully treatment will be easier. Poor little guy, turns out it really was his mouth bothering him all along.

                  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                • Luna
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                    Poor guy! Thank goodness you caught it early though. Do you know what causes an abscess on the jaw? At least his mouth should feel much better once he heals .


                  • DanaNM
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                      I am not sure what caused it, but I think it developed because of his molar spurs? I’m actively searching the forums now for info on abscesses. It does sound like the treatment the vet is doing is the most likely to cure this long term.

                      And yes, very thankful we caught it early, it seems to have developed in the week since his last vet appointment, where they discovered the molar spurs.

                      . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                    • Sarita
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                        Hopefully he will heal quickly. My rabbit Bobby who is now approximately 9 years old was dumped at a guinea pig rescue (we think because he wasn’t eating) and it turned out he had an abscess as well and as a result of this lost his lower left molars which has resulted in dental trims every 3 months now.

                        I imagine he will be prescribed antibiotics and maybe pen-g shots and pain meds – that is what got Bobby through his abscess…he kept losing those teeth at dental trims though until that finally stopped and he has lost no more teeth since then.

                        I think that some rabbits are just genetically weak and this occurs. Bobby is a Netherland Dwarf and this breed seems susceptible to abscesses. Although I’ve had other rabbits who even with the best of care have ended up with abscesses and they were mixed breeds – one was a rex. It certainly could have been the result of his molar spurs….I hope all goes well with him.


                      • DanaNM
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                          Thank you Sarita, they just called and said he’s in recovery and I can pick him up in a couple hours, so hopefully everything went as well as they hoped.

                          I wonder if they ever consider also pulling the tooth opposite the problem one, since that one will no longer have anything to grind against and will need trims no matter what? Or maybe the teeth are bound to shift around when they pull one, so it may not help either way?

                          He’s a Satin, so not one of the breeds that’s known for dental problems, but maybe he drew the short straw on teeth when they selected for his lovely coat. It also said in his adoption paperwork that the people who surrendered him only fed him pellets, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed that this was at least partially due to his diet when he was young.

                          *sigh* So many worries and questions…he had a great appetite for everything except hay even with these problems, so hopefully he does bounce back quickly.

                          . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                        • DanaNM
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                            Just picked up Moose, and got some good news! It turns out his front lower molar on the left was completely rotten and split into a bunch of pieces, which was where the abscess came from. She showed me the tooth they pulled, it was hollow with all kinds of food pieces stuck in it. During the initial exam, she had actually seen a pieces of the fragmented tooth and thought it was a point on a molar. The molar above it was really loose, so they extracted that one as well.

                            When she pulled out the rotten tooth, all kinds of pus started coming out from the abscess, which she flushed out.

                            All of his other teeth looked fine, with no points on them! So, for whatever reason, that front tooth got damaged and infected. I’m so relieved, I was imagining his whole mouth was going to have problems.

                            The hope now is that the abscess was cleaned out enough for the antibiotic to take care of the rest of it, and that she was able to get all the tooth, so it doesn’t grow back. I’m happy that they removed the molar opposite the rotten one, so it wouldn’t just keep growing and cause more problems.

                            He’s on metacam, and will get penicillin injections every 2 days for 10 days. I’m taking him back on Friday for the next one, but then they are going to show me how to do it at home for the others.

                            He started eating his veggies like a champ, and is currently grooming himself, pooped, and ate his pellet ration (no surprise there). He seemed a little unsure at home (he had a rough day, after all), but so far things are looking fine with him and Bertha. They cuddled together in the carrier on the way home. She;s currently grooming herself after the indignity of having to ride around in the carrier a bunch.

                            Assuming everything heals fine, he will need a check up in a month, where they sedate him and probably do x-rays to make sure they got all of his tooth out. Thankfully she said if the abscess just needs more cleaning they are able to do that without completely knocking him out, since it’s in the front of his mouth.

                            Whew!

                            . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                          • Sarita
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                              Continued healing vibes to Moose – sounds like he’s on his way to recovery.

                              His situation sounds alot like Bobby’s. It is very possible that due to the infection his teeth shifted and possibly his jaw structure may have changed so do not be surprised that even with that upper molar pulled that you will have lifelong dental issues and molar trims like Bobby – it is just to be expected. But as long as he gets the regular dental check-up’s he can live a good long life like Bobby is. This really doesn’t slow my little man down at all – at 9 years old he’s still jumping up and down on my bed and asking for pets.


                            • Q8bunny
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                                Aww… sweet dumpling… sad to hear it’s worse than spurs, but glad it ended up in a best case scenario sort of way.
                                Super nice noserubs from me ((((((Moose))))))


                              • DanaNM
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                                  Thanks guys, he is such a sweet boy. He’s doing great this morning, and has been grooming Bertha a lot, which almost made me cry. Maybe he’ll be a little grooming machine now that his mouth won’t be hurting him.

                                  I’m interested to see if his personality changes at all, because I now realize he must have been in some sort of pain from this the whole time I’ve had him.

                                  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                • DanaNM
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                                    Moose started eating hay again this morning! Yay!

                                    Took him for his pen-g injection yesterday, which the vet wants me to continue every other day for a month until his check-up. They showed me how to do it at home…. hopefully he’s not to squirmy, and I won’t have a helper around for the dose on Sunday!

                                    . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                  • Q8bunny
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                                      That’s such great news!
                                      Continued ((((((vibes)))))) for your sweet boy. Go Moose!


                                    • DanaNM
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                                        Well, Moose is recovering well. He’s been eating a lot more hay and seems to be drinking less. I’m still giving him pain meds… but want to taper that off over the next few days and see if he keeps his hay consumption up. 

                                        But along with that, his poops are looking weird. They look like they are strung together with fur, so I have been grooming him a ton, but I’ve started breaking them apart and it’s actually strung with hay pieces: 

                                        I’m guessing that he isn’t quite used to chewing with missing teeth? And before that, his tooth was so rotten it wasn’t useful anyway. 

                                        I’m just happy he’s eating hay and pooping a good amount, but I’m wondering if I can ever expect them to improve in shape, or if this is just normal for him. 

                                        I’ll add that when his teeth were really bothering him and he was getting lots of critical care, his poops did look better (more consistently sized and round, without the points), so I think it is related to him not chewing well. They looked a lot like this when I first got him, but I thought it was due to fur. I think it’s obvious now that his teeth were bothering him then too…. 

                                        . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                      • Q8bunny
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                                          I honestly can’t say for sure, but I imagine there must be an adjustment period with regards to learning how to chew efficiently again with his remaining teeth.


                                        • DanaNM
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                                            Well, Moose went back for his 1 month check up today, and the left side (that had the abscess) looked good and had healed well, but there was another rotten molar on the right side that had to be extracted.

                                            The vet said that the right side had all looked good last time, but maybe she had missed it. It came out in pieces, so she doesn’t think she got all of it out, and he has to go back in 3 weeks for another procedure. So we are back home, with more pain meds and will be continuing his penicillin. She did reduce his dose a little because he had lost a bit of weight. He’s eating his veggies well and wolfed down some critical care from a plate, so at least that’s good.

                                            Poor guy… I wish I knew why his teeth were rotting… and I’m bummed that now the other side is involved. She said he didn’t have any malocclusion, so it seems very strange to me.

                                            At this rate he won’t have any molars left by his 2nd birthday

                                            . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                          • joea64
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                                              Ugh…poor Moose. I have not-so-good teeth myself and I’ve been shying off from going to the dentist (yes, I know), so I understand intimately what a bun goes through when they have dental problems.


                                            • Wick & Fable
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                                                I forget if this was mentioned, but was Moose ever put on antibiotics for an elongated period of time to take care of any present tooth infections? If there’s more, it’d be best to kill those infections before they rot the teeth.

                                                The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                                              • Q8bunny
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                                                  Bummer. So sorry for the poor little guy. Does he get direct sunlight regularly? It helps strengthen bones and teeth in buns.


                                                • DanaNM
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                                                    Posted By Wick on 10/17/2017 7:42 AM

                                                    I forget if this was mentioned, but was Moose ever put on antibiotics for an elongated period of time to take care of any present tooth infections? If there’s more, it’d be best to kill those infections before they rot the teeth.

                                                    Yes, he’s been on penicillin injections since the first extractions about a month ago, and still continuing them.  Do you know if penicillin will address infections within the tooth? She did reduce the dosage a bit, because he lost a little weight.  

                                                    Thankfully we caught this one before it caused an abscess, it was just a bit swollen on that side. 

                                                    . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                  • DanaNM
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                                                      Posted By Q8bunny on 10/17/2017 8:20 AM

                                                      Bummer. So sorry for the poor little guy. Does he get direct sunlight regularly? It helps strengthen bones and teeth in buns.

                                                      Hmmm, well they do have the option for some morning sun that comes through my apartment window. But I wouldn’t say they get a lot of direct sun, as we have had the curtains drawn to keep things cooler. Might try opening the shades a little earlier to see if they want more sun baths. 

                                                      . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                    • Wick & Fable
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                                                        Penicillin does address some infectious bacteria, so yes! Wick is on Flagyl right now for potential tooth infections, so I thought I’d ask just in case. Are you giving a probiotic as well?

                                                        The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                                                      • DanaNM
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                                                          Yes, I’m been giving Bene-bac a couple times per week.

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                                                        • LittlePuffyTail
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                                                            Sorry to hear that. Poor little bub.


                                                          • DanaNM
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                                                              Thanks everyone. I’m trying to be hopeful…. I’m just so worried about the little guy. Needing so many extractions at his age… he’s just over 1 year old, and not even a breed that’s prone to dental issues.

                                                              And the development of another fractured rotten tooth within a month is scary. The best case at this point is prob molar trims forever… and the worst case is just scary and sad.

                                                              Thankfully he’s a little fighter and is pooping and eating well. Bertha gave him some good snuggles last night. I just hope we can get to the point where he isn’t in pain all the time. I’ve never seen him binky, and I’m now sure it’s because he’s been hurting.

                                                              Does anyone have any ideas as to why the teeth can just rot like that? Maybe his chewing was weird because of the first extractions and cracked it? If that’s the case then I’m really worried that this will just continue on until he has no teeth left.

                                                              . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                            • Luna
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                                                                Poor little guy . At least he is eating and pooping well, and I know you and Bertha are giving him lots of love . I wonder if buns that aren’t of a breed prone to dental issues can nonetheless be predisposed to dental issues because of genetics? Kind of like how some people are prone to cavities because of genetics?


                                                              • DanaNM
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                                                                  That’s kinda what the rescue he came from thinks. They are thinking when they selected for his handsome coat that he got the short straw on teeth. :-/

                                                                  And yes, glad he is such a good eater (didn’t get the name Moose for nothin!). I know some bunnies have a really hard time after dental work, but so far he seems to handle it well.

                                                                  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                                • joea64
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                                                                    Posted By DanaNM on 10/17/2017 11:32 AM

                                                                    Posted By Q8bunny on 10/17/2017 8:20 AM

                                                                    Bummer. So sorry for the poor little guy. Does he get direct sunlight regularly? It helps strengthen bones and teeth in buns.

                                                                    Hmmm, well they do have the option for some morning sun that comes through my apartment window. But I wouldn’t say they get a lot of direct sun, as we have had the curtains drawn to keep things cooler. Might try opening the shades a little earlier to see if they want more sun baths. 

                                                                    Really hope Moose gets better; I always worry about my buns’ teeth too! Panda and Fernando have good opportunity daily to get sunlight since their condo is right under a window. There aren’t any curtains, but the blinds are usually drawn; however, plenty of sunlight filters through the blinds especially in the afternoon (because of the way my apartment is positioned, the sun usually shines directly through the window), and Fernando loves to bask in the open space right under the window. So I’m pretty sure they get the sunlight they need without being overexposed.


                                                                  • BearMom
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                                                                      Poor Moose! Teeth issues are so hard. I hope he is feeling better and that this get’s better soon.

                                                                      Jack has had several molars removed and his front teeth, but you wouldn’t know it from how he acts or eats. He’s really good about eating hay now, better than he ever was before his teeth were removed. He also does things like chew on sticks. He gets them into the side of his mouth like an old man chewing on a toothpick So the good news is that they really can bounce back and do all the regular things even with quite a few less teeth. I tell Jack that I would get him dentures if I could, but he will just have to deal with being all gums


                                                                    • DanaNM
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                                                                        Posted By Jacks_mom on 10/19/2017 9:05 AM

                                                                        Poor Moose! Teeth issues are so hard. I hope he is feeling better and that this get’s better soon.

                                                                        Jack has had several molars removed and his front teeth, but you wouldn’t know it from how he acts or eats. He’s really good about eating hay now, better than he ever was before his teeth were removed. He also does things like chew on sticks. He gets them into the side of his mouth like an old man chewing on a toothpick So the good news is that they really can bounce back and do all the regular things even with quite a few less teeth. I tell Jack that I would get him dentures if I could, but he will just have to deal with being all gums

                                                                        Thank you, this is encouraging to hear. He is definitely in better spirits today, so I know he’s feeling a bit better. Just hoping his teeth stabilize soon!

                                                                        . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                                      • Q8bunny
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                                                                          Unfortunately glass kills the wavelengths they need. The idea is direct sunlight – so open window.

                                                                          I’m keeping my fingers crossed for the best case scenario.


                                                                        • DanaNM
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                                                                            Well I do have the window open (it’s a very large one) all of the time, so most of the light comes through a screen, vs. glass. So filtered, but the wavelengths should be the same.

                                                                            In any case, this problem seems to have started before we adopted him, since we’ve only had him a few months, and it would take quite a while to develop a deficiency like that (and none of my other bunnies have had this sort of problem with identical living situations).

                                                                            . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                                          • Q8bunny
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                                                                              Agreed. But I’m guessing now you’ll throw all the help you can his way with a mind to the future.


                                                                            • DanaNM
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                                                                                very true!

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                                                                              • DanaNM
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                                                                                  Well, some good news this morning at Moose’s check-up, or at least no more bad news!

                                                                                  The vet looked at his mouth without anesthesia (since the problem areas have all been towards the front), and didn’t see any serious problems. The tooth behind the one she pulled last was starting to be discolored, so that one might need to come out eventually. But, she didn’t see anything with the tooth she pulled last time (it wasn’t growing back yet), and no swelling or anything like that. She obviously couldn’t tell if the tooth was loose or not, but it didn’t look broken like the other one. He also gained some weight back, which is great.

                                                                                  So, the vet gave us the two options: do the anesthesia exam, or give it a few more weeks and see how he does.

                                                                                  We opted to wait and see, since we didn’t really want to subject him to anesthesia if not needed. He will most likely need more extractions in the future, but we do want to see if we can wait longer between them, for his sake.

                                                                                  We are also going to stop the penicillin for now (YAY) and see how that goes, but keep up the pain meds. Poor guy was getting a lot of scar tissue on his back from all the shots, so I’m glad to give him a break from that. If he is doing well after two weeks on no penicillin, we will also try weaning him off the metacam.

                                                                                  I was fully prepared for them to anesthetize him and do more work, so I’m glad the vet didn’t think that was necessary!

                                                                                  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                                                • jerseygirl
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                                                                                    Good to hear. I totally would have taken the wait and see approach also. Especially while he is doing well and gaining weight. Fingers crossed things keep improving for him.


                                                                                  • Luna
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                                                                                      Yay for weight gain and no more shots! So it sounds like his teeth should be ok for a while?


                                                                                    • Q8bunny
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                                                                                        Such good news! A wait and some meat on those darling wee bones should do him good. Lots of (((vibes))) and nose rubs from us.


                                                                                      • sarahthegemini
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                                                                                          Aw sweet little Moose. Despite his health issues (some just have bad luck ) I think he’s a lucky bun to have you looking after him. Lots of snuggles from me and my two monsters xx


                                                                                        • DanaNM
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                                                                                            Thanks everyone.

                                                                                            Yeah we still aren’t sure about that one tooth that was discolored, but hopefully it doesn’t need to be pulled soon. His poops are already looking better with just a few days break from the penicillin.

                                                                                            Bertha is giving him kisses right now, he is a lucky bun indeed!

                                                                                            . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                                                          • sarahthegemini
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                                                                                              Good on you Bertha!


                                                                                            • DanaNM
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                                                                                                Moose and Bertha both went in for a check up today, and both are looking pretty good!

                                                                                                Bertha had lost a bit of weight, but we think it’s because Moose is hoovering up all her pellet ration. Moose on the other hand, is a little chunk, and has gained weight! He’s up to 6 lbs! Going to keep an eye on Bertha’s weight, but the vet said if she had walking in off the street she would have thought her to be in perfect health.

                                                                                                Moose’s teeth still look the same (no sign of the root growing back from the last extraction). So, we are going to try weaning him off the metacam (will skip tomorrow’s dose) and see how he does. If he seems like he’s in pain without it, we’ll schedule a anesthesia exam to get a better look to see what’s bothering him. If he’s fine without it, then he’s fine until he needs a molar trim!

                                                                                                He’s been eating hay right before he’s due for a metacam dose, so I think he’s feeling pretty good.

                                                                                                . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                                                              • Luna
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                                                                                                  That’s great! Although I’m sure Bertha has a thing or two to say about him eating up her share of the pellets .


                                                                                                • DanaNM
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                                                                                                    After a check-up on Monday, we weaned Moose off his pain meds this week, and he’s eating hay like a champ!

                                                                                                    So hopefully that means no more procedures for a little while at least!

                                                                                                    Wooooooohoooooo!

                                                                                                    . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                                                                  • Bam
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                                                                                                      Yaaayy!!! Good boy! ?


                                                                                                    • Dee
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                                                                                                        So happy to hear that!! You’ve been through a lot with Moose- you both deserve a break. Isn’t it funny how the sound of a bunny crunching on their hay and the sight of poops in the litter box can make us so happy! ?


                                                                                                      • DanaNM
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                                                                                                          Seriously, every time I see Moose eating hay I’ve been doing a victory dance!

                                                                                                          . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                                                                        • LittlePuffyTail
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                                                                                                        Forum DIET & CARE Moose dental drama – *Update: no more extractions… for now