Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 4288


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| 06/10/2009 01:00 PM |
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I have no more excuses to put off bonding Deidra with Lint since Mops did so well with her. At this point, Lint hates her. Deirdra isn't as tense as he is, but ten days ago, when I first tried these two, she got in a all-out war with him when she wouldn't be humped by him... she left a bloody bite mark on his ear. Since then, Lint REALLY hates her, and has shown destructive behaviour in his habitat. He is just so angry.
The injury on his ear has healed and I did one stress bonding session in two parts. First part, I put them both in my empty kiddy pool with the hose spraying water in one spot for noise and distraction. They got their feet wet and did not fight or interact in any way. Part two, I then transferred them to my new bonding set-up in a corner of my deck where they hadn't been. I included my very rabbit-friendly dog in the set-up to break up any fights (he can do that). I wanted no blood this time, that was my goal for this session. I don't recommend anyone using a dog unless the dog is totally 'bunny-proof'.
I achieved my goal of no blood shed, but I have a long road ahead of me. I can't imagine these two to make peace... but I know they will.
I held more sessions after the stress bonding, with and without Mops in the mix. Lint continues to hate Deirdra and will not even try humping (He must recall vividly what she did last time he tried). Deirdra dared trying to hump him, but no way he would allow it.
Lint is also possessive over Mops. Mops' relationships with either of the two is virtually unaffected, even though there was some displaced aggression from Lint toward him.
I think it will take lots of time, lots of bath tub sessions which I'm going to include today.
this is a video of a session with the trio and no stressors.
this is of Lint and Deirdra alone which is the most intense situation because nothing distracts them. Lint thinking angry thoughts in his corner...
Lint here territorial over his designated "I hate Deirdra" corner...
Deirdra showing nerve, trying to mount Lint
I am pretty sure this set-up will not give much progress; Lint avoids D or chases her off. I am hoping the bath tub will make a difference.
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 1660


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| 06/10/2009 01:28 PM |
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I love these videos! It is good to see what similarities we are both having with 3! I just get so scared to "let them be". I am so worried it will end in a bad fight that Dexter has no chance of winning! The first time I "let them be" I had to hear Dexter scream after Delilah attacked him, which was terrifying! |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 4288


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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 1660


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| 06/10/2009 02:28 PM |
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Eek a boo boo! I get so worried about someone getting hurt! |
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jerseygirl  Australia
 Posts: 7488


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| 06/10/2009 07:30 PM |
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I laughed so loud at your dogs "talking" on that 1st video. It's like they're umpiring!
I think the tub should help some as they'll be forced to interact. Was Lint the more dominant with him and Mops? It's seems like he views Deirdra is going to take top bunny position and he's a bit threatened by her. Maybe due to her newness and size? But she kind of just goes about her business - ignoring Lint. From the vids, she doesn't seem that aggressive toward him. The tub should reveal more. If it turns out that she's not overly dominant and allows Lint to be, I think you might be 'home free'.
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 4288


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| 06/11/2009 11:12 AM |
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Yes, Jerseygirl, I'm pretty sure Lint feels threatened by Deirdra. Lint is a dominant bunny, humpy and dominant. I guess, Mops just puts up with him because Mops is very relaxed, never humps and generally just doesn't care. Deirdra isn't as submissive as Mops and in her budding friendship with Mops she is actually humping Mops sometimes. I know she won't let Lint hump. Lint knows it, too. He doesn't know how to be with another bun without being the boss.... so he's kind of in shock.... but he's smart and social and I hope he will figure out that there are other ways of relating to other rabbits besides humping them into submission!!!
I did a bath tub session last night, just Deirdra and Lint-- went great in my estimation. They sat together, next to one another, touching, for the first time without getting in a quarrel. you can see in the video clip that they were pretty scared, but at least it brought them together.
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 1660


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| 06/11/2009 11:49 AM |
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HAHA I love the treats sitting on their heads!!! Looks like it went well! |
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MarkBun  Richmond, CA
 Posts: 2532


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| 06/11/2009 04:53 PM |
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I would try petting them both at the same time while they're in the tub - give them a little reassurance as well as transferring both of their scents to one another. But you definitely want to go with the stress bonding with those two - Lint reminds me of Maryann when I first started bonding. |
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| My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond! |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 4288


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| 06/11/2009 06:39 PM |
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Good grief. Lint a distant relative to Maryann, maybe? well, I will definitely try transfer of scent. I am very willing to try anything new since today they got in a nasty fight, their second real fight. Things were calm during a session in the patio corner, until Deirdra started to be happpy and to race. Lint chased after her and she got defensive... things went fast and after a cloud of flying fur had settled I saw both buns on their sides holding each other by a scruff of hair. I let them settle down, petted them, but then ended the session, on a pretty bad note. I needed to check them over, nobody has any scratches or marks. I'm debating whether or not to have a session in the tub tonight late. I think, they need rest but I don't want to leave it at the bad note. |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 4288


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| 06/11/2009 07:02 PM |
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oh, I forgot. I also had to upgrade my nippage guards on D's condo. well, they serve more as 'boxing guards' --Lint started boxing at Deirdra at night time again. I may move one of the buns out of the room for a while if the tub sessions don't work.

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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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MarkBun  Richmond, CA
 Posts: 2532


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| 06/12/2009 10:38 AM |
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On the patio, you should put up a divider - something to break the straight line of chasing. If you have an x-pen, place it along one of the walls but leave the last two panels sticking out - sort of like using one of those oriental folding screens to turn a studio into a semi one bedroom. |
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| My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond! |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 4288


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| 06/12/2009 12:44 PM |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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MarkBun  Richmond, CA
 Posts: 2532


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| 06/12/2009 01:06 PM |
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Hmmm, I've never seen a bunny sit there like Lint does. I think he was almost daring Deirdra to move so he could nip her. I find that some agressive behaviour is triggered when the other rabbit moves. Maryann was more or less content with Dono as long as he didn't move. The moment he did though, she'd turn and bite him. But any event that doesn't end in fur flying is good one.  |
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| My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond! |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 4288


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| 06/12/2009 01:30 PM |
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I think, Lint is bearing a huge grudge because of the ear injury Deirdra inflicted. It put him in a shock at first, then he progressed to just hate her for it. I let 12 days go by after it had happened, but I can feel from him, when I do the sessiions, that he is not ready to even consider D as anything but a threat to him. she just tolerates her because he's stuck in the tub. |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 1660


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| 06/12/2009 01:55 PM |
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I think thats the point Delilah and Dexter are at too. You can see it in their eyes, if you werent there watching....it just looks like theyre uncomfortable and 'dealing' with it. |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 4288


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| 06/12/2009 01:56 PM |
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How do I get to your bonding quest with Maryann? I clicked on the link in your signature but it bounces me to the current forum page. |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 1660


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| 06/12/2009 01:58 PM |
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jerseygirl  Australia
 Posts: 7488


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| 06/14/2009 02:58 AM |
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You can really see Lint is out of his zone in the neutral bath tub. You always have some stress bonding up your sleeve. Car ride, washer rider etc. Good for after they've had a scuffle apparently. When I did tub bonding I popped both in a cardboard box one night to take them to the bathroom. I found this was like a stressor so I stomped around the house carrying them this way for a bit longer. So if you can't do the car thing - that might be another option. |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 4288


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| 06/14/2009 07:45 AM |
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I might do a car ride today but I have been rethinking my approach. I think stress bonding is what first stopped the nasty fighting between them but at this point I can see the same behavior that I dealt with when I bonded Lint with Mops. Small space seems to trigger aggression in Lint. So.... I spent yesterday doing a supervised 'roaming' bonding on the patio. I had all three, plus my dog and noise from my neighbors weed wacker as a stressor. It went well, First Lint avoided D, but he started moving around and inevitably ran into her. She showed interest in him, which he rejected with posturing but no biting. I also used clicker training as a resort to avoiding fights; I had done clicker training with Lint when I first fostered him last year and my friend reminded me of this the other day. So every time, D and L ran into one another I'd click and every second time I'd click I'd also reward wiith Lint's most irrestible (unhealthy) treat, tiny almond piece. -- It was a long day, breakfast, lunch and dinner on the patio for me (life is tough  ) I will try posting videos tomorrow. |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 4288


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| 06/14/2009 02:31 PM |
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So this weekend is all about bunny-bonding. The weather was in my favor so I scheduled nothing but bonding. 
I tried another neutral place not as scary as the bath tub with bad results. I put Lint and Deirdra in a giant travel crate in my basement. They had never been there, nothing was familiar. Lint acted aggressively, as I figured.
This was Friday. My friend phoned me after and she suggested (she knows that Lint is smart as a rat) that maybe Lint associated Deirdra with only stress and bad situations. Plus, I already knew that Lint gets very territorial and humpy in small spaces, he still displays this type of behavior toward Mops when confined in a small crate. So.... I took a leap of faith and took the sessions to the large area of my patio where Deirdra has her tunnel (figured she'd not want to share with Lint). I put Mops with them as well as the dogs, and evrybody in my neighborhood seemed to be running some kind of machine for yard work. There were no fights but Lint was tense.
He spent much time pouting in his 'cheese' box but no chasing and no fighting.

Whenever their paths crossed Lint found a way to avoid her, he jumped over the little barrier in this pic...

Yesterday ended on a good note with all three buns in Deirdra's tunnel. I called it a day after that.

Today i decided to put together just Lint and Deirdra and the dogs and the surroundings were peaceful and quiet. Lint tried to claim the tunnel as his but after a half hour relaxed and allowed Deirdra a place in it. He was, however, very tense...
I clicked them over with the clicker and rewarded them both with treats. After that, they ate dandelions together, but Deirdra was shy, worried Lint would throw a fit...but he didnd't, he just ate most of the dandies.
They ended up in their favorite spot, respectively, the tunnel (it is big enough for me to go in if I had to), and Lint relaxed, grooming...
They both went to sleep/grooming/doing cecals in the tunnel and spent two hours. Ended in good note.

i will try again, the three together, later on today because there are also jealousy issues over Mops coming from Lint. ... for now, I'm happy that there is some degree of tolerance. I will keep doing one bath tub session per day as well so i can get Lint to sit close to her and do more scent transfers. 
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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