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Last Post by ea hurse at 10/19/2006 9:18 AM (38 Replies)
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User is Offline Gravehearted
Campbell, CA
2442 posts Send Private Message
9/18/2006 10:30 PM
I hope it will go better today...

It can really take a while for them to bond and get along, and there are lots of things that BinkyBunny suggested that can really help. I've had good luck with car rides and shopping cart dates too. It's just going to take some time and patience.
~ bunny mom to to HRH Hareiette, Viktor the crazy Krum and Pandora, prima binky ballerina ~ Save a life, Adopt!

User is Offline ea hurse
108 posts Send Private Message
9/19/2006 1:59 AM
about the car ride idea, can you give me the specifics- do i need a large cardboard box or can i use my carry-case? it isnt huge but they would both fit in- they'd both be straight out the case unless i zip it up, or out a carboard box unless it was sort of sealed up, and then how do you stop them fighting in a covered up container?!!

User is Offline ea hurse
108 posts Send Private Message
9/19/2006 2:02 AM
p.s, we don't really 'do' things like take animals into pet stores where i live, certainly not push them round in the trollies-they'd probably chuck me out if i tried! it's a shame since it sounds like a great idea, the noise would certainly help with my 2.

User is Offline Faye Perry
Leicestershire, UK
114 posts Send Private Message
9/19/2006 9:59 AM

will you be on your own when going for a drive?  I know i was quite concerned when we took our two scrapping bunnies for the first drive and i had my husband there... but they were so scared that they just huddled together the whole time, well almost,  there was a point when Mable tried to jump out!

We took them in a cardboard box with a blanket over the top (when carrying them to and from the car) and husband took it off when we were driving. I prefer the box as its easier to get access if world war 3  kicks off..

You could try putting them in a box or carrier and walking them round as this works for my two also... the only problem being they can get heavy after a while...or i read that some people put the box on top of a washing machine (switched on)..or maybe you could 'borrow' a supermarket trolley or purchase one of those shopping bag things with wheels and put the box on top... or if you have a wheel-barrow... (i would stay in the garden with this option in case you are mistaken for a homeless hobo) ha ha the things we do!

i also had beautiful visions of 'happy ever after' but we're not quite there either...but I am strong and I will not give in - so the saga continues......


User is Offline Gravehearted
Campbell, CA
2442 posts Send Private Message
9/19/2006 8:16 PM
Posted By loopy-lop on 09/19/2006 5:02 AM
p.s, we don't really 'do' things like take animals into pet stores where i live, certainly not push them round in the trollies-they'd probably chuck me out if i tried! it's a shame since it sounds like a great idea, the noise would certainly help with my 2.


I can see it now on BBC world news...  woman arrested at local petstore as she was pushing around two surly rabbits in a trollie...  he he
~ bunny mom to to HRH Hareiette, Viktor the crazy Krum and Pandora, prima binky ballerina ~ Save a life, Adopt!

User is Offline ea hurse
108 posts Send Private Message
9/19/2006 11:51 PM
yeh, i could do with a little excitement in my life, maybe i should just go ahead and do it- could be like a Benny Hill sketch, the security guards chasing me up and down the aisles in fast motion with the store musak playing abnormally fast in the back-ground, i manage to elude them for a while; they finally catch me and throw me and my bunnies out the door but the sketch ends with a close up of Lollo and Blue snuggled blissfully together......

anyhoo... they had their 2nd date last night, it lasted not very long. they started off ignoring each other, but once they decide to be interested there's no stopping them. Once again they were humping each other, Lollo seems to accept the humping and can't understand why Blue won't take it in return! It was quite amusing watching Lollo desperately try to get a grip, his back legs were working overtime whilst Blue scuttled around with him semi-attached! I again seperated them when they started spiralling (set off by a rather large clump of fur that Lollo had literally sawn off her back with his teeth!).

The car ride is an option but at the moment the various people who would help are holidaying, the others mostly think i'm barmy. I guess the only way would be to get someone to allow me to sit in the car with the bunnies whilst they drive 'to' somewhere they'd be going anyway (so they can pretend they're not actually just driving round for the sake of bunny-love!) ah, to be perceived as normal - maybe one day!


User is Offline Gravehearted
Campbell, CA
2442 posts Send Private Message
9/20/2006 9:26 AM
ooo man am i cracking up visualizing that - the fast motion muzak really adds to the visual, he he

It sounds like they're still figuring out the dynamics - the humping is all about trying to determine out who exactly is in charge. Lots of fur flying during bonding isn't really uncommon - but as a bunny parent is pretty anxiety provoking.  The spiraling is pretty stressful too - but the good thing is that wasn't ALL they did.

Some other tricks you can try.  Feed them together - there's nothing like some yummy greens to distract you from kicking someone else's butt, right?  You can also swap pens for the night - or just litterboxes - this can help too.  *thinking good bonding thoughts for you*
~ bunny mom to to HRH Hareiette, Viktor the crazy Krum and Pandora, prima binky ballerina ~ Save a life, Adopt!

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
8669 posts Send Private Message
9/21/2006 11:23 PM
Posted By loopy-lop on 09/19/2006 4:59 AM
about the car ride idea, can you give me the specifics- do i need a large cardboard box or can i use my carry-case? it isnt huge but they would both fit in- they'd both be straight out the case unless i zip it up, or out a carboard box unless it was sort of sealed up, and then how do you stop them fighting in a covered up container?!!


You can do either.   Having a container helps keep them from flying around the car  if you are whipping around corners and going at a normal speed.   Sometimes I just took mine around the neighborhood, and went slow, so I just put a blanket in the back seat with their litterbox.  They usually both jumped in the litterbox and huddled together.

I think it's a good idea to take someone with you just in case th fight OR just stay on local neighborhood streets, so that if they start fighting you can quickly pull over.


User is Offline ea hurse
108 posts Send Private Message
10/11/2006 6:05 AM
i need advice yet again- at what point do i say enough is enough and stop with the attempts to bond Blue and Lollo? Blue is a bully and their session just now has ended with out and out scrapping; Blue just wont leave Lollo alone even though he is happy to say hello to her (and even put up with a bit of humping) then do other stuff (ie hopping around sniffing!). he doesnt seem at all interested in grooming her which i think is what is p*ing her off. it was really difficult to seperate them, she just kept going at him- luckily no-one was hurt but i'm a nervous wreck. it isnt getting any easier, in fact they are getting worse. Blue is now ignoring me whereas Lollo seems to need a pile of reassurance.

User is Offline Gravehearted
Campbell, CA
2442 posts Send Private Message
10/11/2006 8:51 AM
oo that's so frustrating isn't it? It sometimes takes several months to bond a pair - sometimes even longer!

Since they keep fighting I'd recommend taking a few weeks to let them chill out and then start over again. I wouldn't abandon all hope yet, as it's only been about 3 weeks at this point.
~ bunny mom to to HRH Hareiette, Viktor the crazy Krum and Pandora, prima binky ballerina ~ Save a life, Adopt!

User is Offline wendyzski
Chicago, IL
1316 posts Send Private Message
10/11/2006 10:26 AM
I hear that a good alternative to the car-bonding is to put them in a laundry basked on top of the washing machine on spin cycle.  The idea is similar to to the car thing in that they should be a little frightened and seek comfort from each other.

I know somoene else put a dab of vanilla on each bun's head to encourage them to groom each other

User is Offline Ester Yeh
Houston, TX
127 posts Send Private Message
10/11/2006 10:57 AM
I've heard about the vanilla too. I had read to put it under the bun's chin and bottom area to mask their scent.

User is Offline Gravehearted
Campbell, CA
2442 posts Send Private Message
10/11/2006 2:10 PM
I have heard it works well for some people

I tried the vanilla with my Pandora & (edited: Hareiette) and somebunny started screaming as they chased each other (like the horrifying death scream) and it scared the h*ll out of me. I think they got freaked since they couldn't smell it was the other!
~ bunny mom to to HRH Hareiette, Viktor the crazy Krum and Pandora, prima binky ballerina ~ Save a life, Adopt!

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
8669 posts Send Private Message
10/11/2006 9:02 PM
I had  not heard of vanilla, but i have heard of putting  banana on the forehead to encourage them to groom.

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
8669 posts Send Private Message
10/11/2006 9:04 PM
Loopy-Lop

I agree with gravehearted's advice: To give them a break and start over.  Bunnies who have a nasty fight can keep grudges.

Starting slowly and do short bonding sessions.   You may have to start with a stress method before you put them in a neutral territory if they still want to kill each other when they see each other again.

When you do start again,use the kitchen strainer trick - it's  a trick that I learned from SaveABunny.com:  use a fine netted kitchen strainer  when you introduce them - to keep them separated while they can still sniff each other.  This way, if one goes nuts and tries to bite the other, they can't do any real damage and you can know right away whether you need take them on a car ride or put them through some sort of stress method first.

User is Offline ea hurse
108 posts Send Private Message
10/12/2006 8:18 AM
its so good to get support at the point when i'm giving up! i'll wait a few weeks then try a different way. i couldnt get them both in a box together when i tried but will give it another go. neither likes banana, beetroot is their vice but it might stain Blue's fur (not Lollo's cos he's black!) When you say vanilla, would it be the pure essence you use? My friend said her rabbits hated each other so much they couldnt even be in seperate cages near each other; in the end she took them to the local 'Pet's Corner' where they have large natural-environment type enclosures for various small animals. apparently the expert bloke took them away and when he came back they were loving each other. he'd rubbed them both with the same smell (dont know what though) and it worked a charm! do you think the fly-strike prevention spray would mask the bum-odour then i could use the vanilla on the heads to encourage petting?

The other thing i was thinking was to try bonding Lollo and Chino first as Chino is small and maybe would'nt be so intimidating to Lollo, plus they see more of each other (through a pen-panel) and so maybe are quite used to each other? she isnt spayed yet but he is neutered. is it a silly idea?

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
8669 posts Send Private Message
10/14/2006 8:31 PM
LoopyLop : I can't answer the vanilla question (I'll need to research it a bit)  but maybe gravehearted will be able to specify the type of vanilla better.

Regarding Chino's smaller size - Small size actually doesn't
guarantee submission.  Many times smaller bunnies can actually be more dominant and boss bigger bunnies around.  It really does have to do whether a bunny is dominant or passive and those characteristics can come in all sizes.

Though most experts suggest that both bunnies be altered, I have heard of success stories between an altered and unaltered bunny.   You can try.  But,  I still think you should wait. and give Lollo a break from bonding since it's been rough.   Lollo may be defensive.

When you do start bonding again, I would start the sessions with the car ride method.  

User is Offline Faye Perry
Leicestershire, UK
114 posts Send Private Message
10/18/2006 5:21 AM

Loopylop - I am in the same-ish situation.  Don't give up!  I'm sure it can be done...

My bunnies are still seperate... i've started bonding twice and the 2nd time all was great but then 'dearest hubby' didn't watch them carefully (enough) and a fight broke out.  we keep them separate but the cages are together -although they are kept apart enough to stop damage through the bars and we have to put a mesh around them when one is out (Mable has bit Booboo's nose! and she was the one out!) So I've given them a break of about 3 weeks, and i'm going to start again soon.  We have let them out breifly together, most of the time its ok, but we can tell if tensions rise..and we can't take our eyes off them.

I think you have to be patience and not rush things..but it can be very frustrating and disapointing x

What seems to kick things off with mine is in the evenings, they both love to runs around binkying and skipping, but when they do this and they're both out it seems to annoy the other, and it turns into the 'death spiral' (god just saying it makes me scared) and thats it.  Its awful when they're gunning for each other..But i will keep trying and if i'm still here in 2 years saying the same thing then i will admit defeat, but not until!!

Taking them for a drive really helps mine, but so does putting them in the cardboard box and carrying it around x


User is Offline ea hurse
108 posts Send Private Message
10/19/2006 9:18 AM
thanks bunnybabe, its not that im glad that you're in the same boat but, well, i am kind of- it's good to know that people understand. its so gut-wrenching to see them fight when they are both so nice individually, and poor Lollo, he looked gutted that Blue had started on him! i will wait a few weeks and try again. thanks all for the support!
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