Today, Pip and Mimzy have been in the xpen almost all day together. Despite a bit of dominance behavior, the two have gotten along better today than they have in weeks. I spent a good deal of time in there first thing, talking to them, letting them push me around (when do they not?) and stroking each one in turn, then together, after they groomed one another, and told them what good bunnies they were. (Pip did most of this, Mimzy kind of ignores her if she presents and I think she gets her feelings hurt because she'll keep moving her head up against his chin as if to say, 'Okay, I groomed you, now you groom me....right? Right?...Hellooooo?')

I am loathe to take them to their own pens tonight, as I know it's possible that this will blow all the quality time they spent together today and we'll be starting form scratch tomorrow.

I still have nowhere to put them together permanently. My son has a larger room in the house that I could put all three bunnies into with room to spare, and a nice NIC condo could be built there eventually, and I hope to use this room once he's at college next year. In the meantime, I am thinking of sleeping on the couch and surrendering my room for the bunnies to have one big spot all to themselves. But I know it's not possible.

Am I wrong to continue to try bonding them at this point, when it's obvious that it will be many moons now until they can be together in one space permanently? They both just seem so content right now and I just feel like a heel at bedtime. I almost don't want to put them together anymore until we get this sorted. But part of me is afraid that will really do some damage to them mentally and emotionally.

How will I know they are ready for the big move? Sometimes they seem so content together, other times I have to remove Mimzy within the first half hour before he gets the snot beaten out of him (what a way to go, being humped to death! Yikes!)

 

i don't know if you ever KNOW. you get to a point where you just need to let your guard down and give it a real try. it's important that the final space is not claimed by either... or it's a space that they both are comfortable in. and once they are together like that, you don't want to take them back apart. this is when you need to make a hard and fast decision that they will either be a bonded pair, or you'll be keeping things how they are. if this involves rearranging furniture, getting rid of excess/unneeded belongings to make room, then that might be what is necessary. i think the joy that they will get having a mate, and you will get seeing them together is worth the trade-off.

i really hope this doesn't sound "preachy" b/c that's not what i'm going for... i know how much you want it to work out. also, you might be able to spend more time with Fiver b/c you will know that Mimzy and Pip have each other...

Oh I don't think it's preachy, Beka, I know you are absolutely right. As a matter of fact, I am going to breach the subject of my son's room with him today, to see if there's a possibility of a trade off.
Currently, he and my daughter have the two biggest rooms in the house. I think I need to exert some parental authority and commandeer one of them for the bunnies'/my bedroom.

I do have a few questions though, and concerns:
1.) Do bonded bunnies ever have falling's out? I mean not just a tuft of hair here or there, but have any bonded bunnies ever killed each other? I think one of the ideas that makes me feel uneasy about keeping Pip & Mimzy together permanently is that I could go off to the store one day and come back to find they'd fought and one of them has made an end of the other. That would be hideous. (Hey, I've watched Watership Down, I know how bloodthirsty rabbits can be...lolz!)

2.) What of their current night pens? Would I have to trash them altogether or would they be able to use them in their shared space? (I would assume they'd need to be practically sandblasted to eliminate the scents of each individual bunny.) Would they be necessary to keep in case one needs medical isolation from the other?
This will be the hardest part for me if I have to house them elsewhere from me in the house...I would miss seeing Mimzy on his little shelf, watching me as I sleep.
And what if it seems to me that he actually needs some time to himself? Can I separate them at a time like that, even if it's only temporary? (They could still be in sight of each other, just maybe one in a night pen and one out in the xpen around it? knowhutahmeen?)

There's also the cats to think of. The bunnies can't be anywhere accessible by the cats while we are not here or asleep. They are simply too devilish to be left alone with each other, much less with prey animals. >_<

3.) When it comes to traveling, or trips to the vet, do bonded bunnies HAVE to go together, even if only one is being seen? I could do it, but like I said, will have to get a LARGE pet carrier, as Pip is VERY claustrophobic and will spazz in just your basic cat/small dog type pet taxi all by herself, much less with another bunny in there with her. So far when they've gone to the vet, I put them in separate carriers just to be safe. No point in incurring other injuries for the vet to look at because one of them wanted a little more space for the ride in.

Hmmm...Okay, I think I've asked enough stupid questions. I'm sorry I seem to be doing nothing but virtually vacillating on this point, but I am just so clueless about all this. We've been over it so many times and I am sure you are all getting tired of me talking about it...but I just don't want anybun hurt or stressed. If they can be happy together, great, but if not I'd rather keep this sitch the way it is.

Oh, and speaking of that...if we determine they can't be left alone together (highly doubtful) should they not be exercised together at all, even if they get along most of the time? Isn't it better for them to have ANY interaction rather than none at all?

i don't know a lot about the longterms of bonding (remember... my own are only about 3 months into it...)

bonded buns can have falling outs, i think it's more common when they are younger and unaltered tho. adult, altered buns i don't think it's as common. the benefits they get from being with a mate are going to far outweigh the (maybe?) 1 in 100 risk of a fight. it's always a possibility, so i'm not going to say it's not. but i'm assuming you would not tell your human daughter, NEVER get married b/c he might someday leave you. constant fear is no way to live. for you or them. the bonding process is very important b/c that is how you become comfortable with allowing them to be together, unsupervised. the first time i left them together, alone for two hours, i was terrified. the first night was equally scary. but you have to do it eventually.

aren't their night pens small petstore cages, is that what the "superpet" is? i'm not familiar with that brand. if bonded, i would hope you could have a larger, new shared space for them as homebase. maybe a permanent xpen, or a condo with shelves? this is where the "more space" thing really come into play. they would not be separated again once bonded. the ideal is that there is a large enough area so if Mimzy wants to be alone, he can hop away. you can have hidey boxes, tents, etc. that is what i love about my set-up, it's so large that they never have to be right next to each other. they usually choose to be that way tho. Fiver could be your new bedroom bunny if you moved Mimzy and Pip out... it would be a great way to bond with him...

mine ride comfortably in one med size cat carrier to the vet. i think it's more important at the beginning that they not be separated at all b/c the bond can break more easily. this is where my limited knowledge of longterm bonded pairs comes in... i don't really know...

my opinion on the "playtime together but never fully bonded" is that they might find that more depressing. i think you've made great progress so far that it's not fair to them to just throw in the towel now when you are so close.

i think i answered everything... questions?

Yes, I think that's really all I was concerned about. I was hoping to have the hubby make them a new, more spacious 'retirement' condo, (something like BunnyLiz's Hammer's pen), but less upward level and more places to go on the ground floor. One of my main concerns about my current setup is that, every time I have to bring the buns out for play, I have to get on my bed and reach up to Pip's pen and clutch her to my chest quickly, because otherwise it's a looong drop. I don't like that, but it's what I have to do with the space I am currently limited to.

We haven't found the right piece of furniture yet to alter to this new condo, but we're working on it. What I was thinking, in the meantime, would be to switch rooms with my son, or move my stuff out of the little cubbyhole I live in, and have the xpen surrounding the two Superpet pens so that they each had a place to go when they are not wanting to be with each other. This is unlikely going to work though, for two reasons, 1.) Each pen smells like each individual bun and is going to be seen as personal space, therefore it could start an altercation if one bun goes in the other bun's pen. 2.) I doubt Mimzy will get much privacy once he and Pip share a living space anyway. If you look up my post "Xpen Antics" in Behavior, you'll see that Pip is most often found right next to Mimzy, wherever he is, and fiercely guarding him...sometimes even from me. They both love the willow tent, although it's seen better days, and huddle under that almost completely the whole time they are out for exercise...hence-exercise they do not. >.< Kinda frustrating, but eh...I think it's cute that they love being together so much. (Now if Pippi would just stop the darned humping!)

Soooo...options now are making a whole new pen for them and breaking down the Superpets. These are relatively nice-sized pens, and my first thought is, Mimzy loves his so much, will he adapt to a new pen okay? I'd say they are a little over 4' long by almost 2 ' high and 1.5' wide (I am eyeballing and I'm lousy at it, sorry.) I think they're the biggest ones you can get and they each have one, as Pip was starting out as my daughter's bun and lived in her room until we realized they knew each other was there and seemed like they would like to be together.

Or, I can bunk somewhere else and Pip & Mimzy can have the cubbyhole all to themselves. A nice idea as I can close the door to that room and never worry about the cats bothering them. And if Fiver ever winds up bonding with them eventually, he will fit int here nicely too. It'd be a great bunny room without all the junk in it.

So basically I either have to poop or get off the pot. Simple as. ^_^ I just want the bunnies happy, I will do what I have to to get them that way.

Oddly enough, the whole thing came back in my mind early this morning, as the cat had slunk into my room (the black one, ergo I hadn't noticed her) and that set Pip off on thump patrol for about 45 minutes. I kept thinking she might have been a little less excitable if she was cuddling with Mimzy at night and not watching all the doings from her high heights like a vulture. ^_^ I will have to load and post a link to a FLIP video I took of her in her pen, grouchy as all get out because I placed a terrycloth towel on her pen top to keep out light thinking she might sleep better that way...which never worked because she began to yank and chew it before I'd even turned out the light for the evening. lolz....

She's a good bunny...just sometimes...she scares me. 0_o She can be a little...intense. And the thought of poor Mim having to take the brunt of her weirdness just makes me feel terrible for him. *sigh* His two compatriots that he was abandoned with sure gave him a rough time too and he seemed almost relieved to be away from them when we brought him here. He strikes me as a little TOO docile at times. I wonder if it was a good idea to bond Pip to him at all, but I guess it's too late to worry about that now.

Poor MimzMum... I'm sorry your buns are so complicated.

How does Pip scare you? Now I'm picturing her as being demon-possessed or something...

An honest question...if they're not actually fully-bonded, and not really living together, and you're thinking you might not want to bond Mimzy and Pip after all, IS it too late? If they only barely tolerate each other, can't you just keep them separate and let it go, if you want? (Maybe Mimzy and Fiver will be a nicer pair? Poor Pip the outcast demon-possessed psycho-bunny!)

(((vibes to you)))

lolz...Unless you've seen her 'disapproving bunny' picture, I wouldn't call her possessed. But she is pretty, um, possess-IVE? ^_^

I think she just has to be boss. And it's sad. Mimzy is so mellow. Why she thinks she has to be the 'tough bun' is a mystery to me.

They DO seem most times to like to be together. But when they start getting uppity with each other, well, I just separate them. I don't want him getting hurt. He's kind of my hunny bunny.

And Fiver and Mimzy? Erm, maybe not. The first time Fiver was anywhere near Mimzy he took a snap at him that, if it had connected, would've torn out a chunk of Mimzy's throat. I'm a little wary of mixing those two currently.