Hi guys, I have 3 unbonded rabbits that I would love to bond. Two females one male. All altered. Very aggressive netherland dwarf female (towards the other two)..male is next in line as far as aggressiveness, and a non aggressive female, who will fight if prompted to.

I would do just about anything to have hands on help. Does anyone know of any professional bonders either here in Calgary or in B.C.?

I've read tons of articles and have a dvd "introducing rabbits" but think that these 3 may be a bit more then I can chew. Could really use some help.

Anyone having information as far as bonders go would be greatly appreciated.

Alberta would be much much preferable to B.C., be about 10 hour car ride to Vancouver from here but willing to consider anywhere if I have no other options.

Thank you in advance.

Marie.

Hello: I do not believe we have any rabbit rescues in Alberta at all. Such a shame. I have emailed vrra already asking them if they do bonding but haven't recieved anything back yet.

I realize it would take more then one day to do the bonding, if I were lucky enough to find bonders near by. Could take a week or more. It would be

well worth it.

I've read of a lot of tricks, the car ride, washing machine, x pen in neutral area, kitchen table, bath tub. peanut butter on the cheeks (although I wonder about that one, given that nuts are not good for rabbits).

I guess my main question would be, should I start with what I feel will be the most difficult bond first (netherland dwarf female with my lionhead male)? or try what I feel will be the easier bonding, my male with my mini rex female?

I've done 4 dates on my kitchen table covered with a large towel and a litter box filled with hay...my male and my female mini rex. It hasn't gone that badly.

1st one was 10 min. Male tried to bite female but was not obsessive about it.

Next 3 dates were 1 hr long. My female wants badly to be friends with my male, grooming his head for long periods of time. My male still tries to bite her but not constantly. A lot of the time he kind of ignores her. She is slightly afraid of him. He tends to try to bite whenever she tries to smell him or moves too fast.

He's pretty easy for me to control though. I keep one hand gently on his back and that usually keeps him from trying to bite. I say no, be nice and usually that is enough. He is a very high strung rabbit (so is my female netherland dwarf).

The mini rex has not tried to bite him back, she really wants to be his friend.

Now, I'm very nervous about trying my newcomer, nd female with my male. She acts very hateful towards both my male and mini rex female, through the baby gates. I'm pretty sure if she tore into my male, he'd reciprocate just as badly. I really would like to make some attempt though, rather then give up before I've even tried.

None are caged. Male lives in living room. Mini rex has her own bedroom and the netherland dwarf is in the kitchen.

Any advice as to which two you would try first? Most difficult, easiest?

I'm thinking that my nd female and my male need a really scary first date...maybe the car? Do you have any other ideas for really scary dates?

I did try one 10 min bonding of the two females, on the table, hay filled litter box. ND female was fixated on biting my mini rex. I had to hold her the entire 10 min. The only other thing she did that was not trying to bite my other female, was jumping out of the litter box onto the table. I did not let her budge. Maybe it was a bit too close for her to start?

Any thoughts from Moobunnay and Becka27?

Thanks for any advice and for both you you replying to my post.

you are correct that you'll need to bond two into a pair, and then introduce the third. i have never bonded a trio before, only a pair (a difficult bond, and only once) but my thought is to try to bond the most difficult first. then introduce the easiest into the pair. sex aside, who is the most easygoing bunny? during bonding, they will need to be housed separately in the same room so they can see and smell each other at all times. do you have a neutral, or somewhat neutral, area where you can set up a couple xpens or cages? side by side with a few inches in between.

and rather than a table as a bonding space, is there someplace on a floor they can go?  bathroom, bathtub, empty walk-in closet.  they need to be able to walk around comfortably and i'm worried that if they fight, they might end up flinging themselves off the table, that could result in major injury.

Hi Beka27..definitely my mini rex female is the easiest going.  Munchkins, my boy, has been free run since he was a little baby. I think to lock him

up would cause him a great deal of distress. Would they need to "live" in cages or x pens during the entire bonding attempt?  Munch and Amethyst

can smell and see each other now. Amethyst is in the kitchen, Munch in the living room, separated by a baby gate. They try to bite each other through

it.

I think it's a good suggestion you made to "not" use the kitchen table for them. I think it may be a very volatile situation and who knows how much

flinging they will do.

I'm guessing it would be best to use towels in the tub? I think they'd only try to get out if they couldn't walk without slipping. My basement is

completely neutral, unfinished though with cement flooring.

If I managed to bond them (big IF), would you then suggest I add Pearl to both of them at one time or try to bond her with each of them seperately?

Thanks again, you are the only person to reply to my "which to bond first" question. I'd emailed several experts but not had any replies to it.

Marie.

This photo was taken about 10 minutes ago. Shadow (left) is from our pre-bonded female pair. Clyde (right) was adopted on July 16th of this year with his cage mate Bunny. Shadow has NOT been neutered but thankfully Clyde HAS been. Clyde and Shadow can be often seen cuddling and occasionally grooming one another. Shadow was VERY aggressive towards him during their first few "dates" in the washroom but we decided to have them out in the living room together with close supervision and as you can see they're getting close. We can now have Shadow,Clyde and Shadow's cagemate Luna (female, not pictured) out together for long periods of time without worrying about them fighting. It does take patience, love and the occasional treat but it is well worth it. Our buns do, however live seperately (Shadow and Luna in one x pen, Clyde and his cagemate Bunny in another) but they are next to each other with a spare litter tray laying sideways as a barrier between the two so they can see one another but not get close enough to bite. So far so good.

take it one step at a time. worry first about bonding the two, and then we'll re-evaluate how Pearl should be introduced. my opinion is that they need to be caged side by side so there is some level of forced interaction. they can (and should) have separate runtimes of course, but their "home base" should be together. once they are bonded, they will need to be caged together for a full two weeks to cement this bond, so you might as well get him used to being penned up now. and remember... this whole time is just temporary, so once they are all bonded together, you can slowly introduce free roam to the whole bunch. he may be a bit annoyed by it at first, but the benefit he will receive from having friends will be so much greater in the longrun.

here is what i did while bonding with two side by side xpens... i moved them closer and closer together, and then they were sharing only one set of panels betw/ them.  bonding sessions got longer, to over an hour a day, and within 3 weeks, they were living together fulltime.

Thank you so much people..It looks like the x pens are going to be the only way to go. Just trying to figure out where I could put them. Other then the cold unfinished basement (which I won't do) I think the only option is in the middle of my living room. It won't be possible to watch TV in there or have a l room table but it would be temporary, as Beka has mentioned, it's all temporary and be worth the inconvenience to all involved.

Beka27, those X Pens are very nice, do you know what the size is?  I think that would be a nice size to get.

Since Munch (as well as other previous buns) lived in the living room, the odors from bunnies before, is still there. Do you think putting down

area rugs would be enough?

Wow, that's great 2buns2luv. It gives me hope that it is possible, even when volatile at first. I'm glad things are going so well with your buns.

My male does not seem interested in the humping thing at all. My new female (the aggressive one) humps the stuffed bunny (I rubbed the stuffed bunny all over my male).  While visiting with me on my bed, she's tried to mount my head as well. LOL

My easiest going female, the mini rex did try to mount my male munchkins, the first time they had a date (10 min). She's had dates with my male, 4 or 5 times, of an hour each, since then and she has not tried to do that again. My male tries to nip her if she moves or tries to get close to smell him.

Thank you all for the tips and recommendations. I'd been hoping, someone, somewhere would do that so I'd know how to start it. (especially which rabbits to start with first).

I'll look around for some x pens and keep you updated.

PS   Beka, I'm not sure if the litter boxes in your x pens are where they are for the photo. I think my buns may go to the bathroom, at the inside edge of the x pens, to mark their territory. Should I keep the boxes, on the inside edge where their two pens will meet?

that's interesting you mention about the litterboxes.  i read a great article from House Rabbit Network every single day when i was bonding.  i actually printed it out (it's about 10 pages), and i kept it on my desk. 

www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/bond.shtml

from that article:

 Taking Your New Bunny Home

I would have two cages set up for the rabbits side by side, about three inches apart. It is important to keep the cages slightly apart because they will sometimes try to bite each other through the wires. Many rabbits have scars on their lips from this. You do want them in the same room so they can communicate with each other. I will often place the litter boxes on the far side, away from the other cage. Greens are typically placed in the side closest to the other cage. Eating is a social activity and this will force them to be a little social. Lastly, I have the rabbits switch cages every night. This way they get used to living with the other rabbit's scent and neither gets too possessive about either cage.

i did things exactly like this.  every evening they were switched betw/ the pens.  i left the used litterboxes and food dishes where they were, i only moved the bunnies, nothing else.  litterboxes are a more territorial area, so that's why they are kept on opposite sides.  like the article says, eating is the socal activity, so have that happen closer together.

my female mini rex, Meadow, sneaking some of Max's veggies.  this was later on in the bonding process b/c they were sharing one set of bars instead of a larger space.

during bonding time, they would have a big plate of veggies to share and a litterbox with hay.  there was some territorialness of the litterbox, so i would do forced snuggling inside the box by lifting them in together and petting both at the same time.

 it was a long process (3 weeks altho it felt longer), but it's well worth every minute once they're bonded and living peacefully.  keep at it, every single day.  if you have a camera, you might want to take pictures and post them on here so we can evaluate the body positions.  it's easier to explain if there are pics to go along.  better yet, if your camera has a video feature, that works too.  i have some bonding videos on my youtube account (username: Beka27)  let us know how it goes.

Posted By Kokaneeandkahlua on 09/14/2008 10:17 PM
Hi Vashira! I'm in Edmonton and we just started the first rabbit rescue in Alberta recently!! Our sites under construction but we'll be www.radrabbits.com

Area rugs would help

 

Fantastic Kokaneeandkahlua...wtg!  We really needed one desperately. Thanks for telling me about it and about the rugs

I'll check out your site and spread the word about your rescue to my other bunny parents.

Marie.

Ok, I now have two X Pens, all cleaned. Also just finished washing some area rugs that will go underneath them. I'll make sure I put the litter boxes at the far end and their food and veggies at the inside edge. So, I'll start about 3" apart?
Is it ok to give them little houses or toys in there or should it be bare boned, just the box and food and drink?
Also, is it advisable to take them out to visit with me? Munchkins has slept on my bed since he was little. Amethyst, although I've only had her since Sept 3rd, has gotten used to cuddling on my bed with me before Munch's bedtime.
Will them having visit times with me,  take away from their reliance on each other for company?
As much as I love to cuddle with them, if it will make bonding tougher, then I won't.
Can I start the "dates" the same day as they get moved into the x pens? Or should I give them a bit of time to get used to their new homes?
I will switch them every night, to the other pen and leave their food and litter boxes where they are.
Is there anything else you think is important, at this stage of the bonding game?
I'm so glad I found you guys/gals, you seem to be the only group who cares enough to reply and help me out. I feel I actually have direction now.

Thanks so much all of you for your input.

Marie.

i would give them lil hidey houses or boxes or toys, whatever they like, but remember that when you switch the sides each night, ONLY the bunny moves.  everything else stays.  so they have to play with the "other bun's" toys.  sleep in the "other bun's" house, and potty in the "other bun's" litterbox.  be prepared, there's goes to be territorial marking, but you can just go everyday and sweep up (or suck if you have a handvac).  it's par for the course and it will reduce over time.

they can still have normal runtime, but i would start to limit it. temporarily  instead of several hours a day, give each maybe 2-3 hours separately.  they will be penned more, but that's time when they will be right nest to the other bunny, and again, it's only during the bonding process.  like K&K said, eventually, their only outtime will be while they are bonding.  that reinforces to them that if they want out, they better get used to that other bunny being out too.

you can start with a bonding session right away.  have you figured out a neutral place where neither bunny has been?  bathroom, guest bedroom, walk-in closet, mudroom?  you want a small area, no bigger than about 6 feet square.  i learned that the hard way.  i was bonding in my bedroom and each bun was taking a side and ignoring the other.  they need to be close enough where they HAVE TO interact. 

some supplies to have on hand: 

clean! water squirt bottle:  if they start to get aggressive, soak 'em.  they will have to stop to groom and get the yucky water off.  if you squirt too late and they are in a full-on fight, the squirt is not going to stop them, so get them before it gets bad.

small, empty laundry basket:  i kept this handy, if i saw a bad fight about ready to start, i would very carefully lower the basket (upside down!) over whichever bun was closer.  this kept them apart, but they could still see and smell each other.  it's a much better alternative them reaching your arms into the fight where you will get scratched or bitten.  allow them to cool off for 30 seconds, and then remove the basket, try again.

litterbox with hay, plate of greens to share.

camera, if you have one.

phone and drink (anything you might need during the bonding time)  you won't be able to leave the room to go answer a ringing phone or get a glass of water, so have one near you if you need.

you can start short (ten to fifteen minutes).  i always did one hour at least, but you can always work up to that.

keep us posted!  i am confident that you will be able to do this.  most importantly, take it a day at a time.  around the week mark, you might get discouraged, but keep up with it.  everyday without fail!  it can be done!

Thank you Beka27, I'll follow your instructions to a T.

Amethyst seems to quite like her x pen,  Munch on the otherhand went into a terrible panic. Trying to climb the bars, jumping, looking at me like he was going to cry. I felt so sorry for him. He's so used to being free run. I had to put some large folded cardboard boxes on top to keep him in.

I imagine he'll get use to it.

I could start bonding date number 1 in the tub. It's the only place neither have been in, other then the basement, which we could use later on.

Should I put towels in the tub? I think it could turn into a panic attack for them if they slip.

Thanks again for the descriptive instructions. It helps me a ton.

Marie.