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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > BEHAVIOR > Extra Peeing---HELP!
Last Post by BB at 3/28/2007 4:03 PM (15 Replies)
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User is Offline skunklionshow
City of Brotherly "Shove"
1247 posts Send Private Message
3/16/2007 10:16 AM

Jessica pee'ed 2x's on the couch and 2x's on the kitty bed.  My husband thinks its the cabbage.  Anytime she gets cabbage, she pees outside of the litterbox.

Does cabbage = extra pee?

HELP!!!!

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Ghandi


User is Offline wendyzski
Chicago, IL
1316 posts Send Private Message
3/16/2007 3:05 PM
Could be.  I've never fed Pepper any cabbage because I was told it could make her gassy.

User is Offline poopy
Orange County, CA
694 posts Send Private Message
3/17/2007 10:58 AM
just avoid feeding her cabbage and see what happens
qwerajsdlfjklwerajioasefklasdfjklasdfiojwe*!*!*$

User is Offline skunklionshow
City of Brotherly "Shove"
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3/18/2007 10:47 AM

So we stopped the cabbage and Friday night she pee'd on the couch again!  We have her reconfined to her cage during overnights and during the day.  It breaks my heart...she was so happy being free w/ the cats.

Any suggestions?  I want her to be free, but I don't want her peeing all over the furniture or cat furniture.  Do bunnies need constant litterbox retraining? 

HELP

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Ghandi


User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
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3/19/2007 3:40 PM

I bet is more of a territorial thing than anything.   Though cats don't have the same kind of hierarchy as rabbits do, Jessica still may feel the need to abide by her own rules and she is telling the cats what is hers or that she feels she is part of the clan.  Depends on her behavior with them.    Do the cats hang out on the couch where she peed?   She may be marking over their scent to say I'm part of the group, OR if one or more of the cats broke her rules, or made her feel insecure in anyway, she may feel the need to reinforce her message that she is to be respected - also by peeing on the couch.

If a rabbit is a dominant bunny, and she has other animals around that don't speak rabbit language nor care to, then you may have to retrain her.  

How does she react with each of the cats.  What is her body language.  What is theirs?  Try not to include what you think they are thinking, just give me body language facts only.  Like how ears are facing, what is their body doing. tail doing.   This will help me figure out if she really is feeling like a part of the group and what role she is trying to take on.


User is Offline skunklionshow
City of Brotherly "Shove"
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3/20/2007 10:58 AM

All the places that Jessi pee'd are cat areas.  She pee'd on their big bed and the couch.  She didn't pee anywhere else. 

Jess tends to be submissive to all the cats, especially my white girl and beige boy.  She tends to bow her head to the cats and lets them like her head.  My orange girl (Kattie) really ignores Jessica.  Jessica will hope up to Kattie, but Kate usually ignores her (not even looks at her) or walks away.  I've never seen her "freak out" around any of the cats.  At times she likes to chase Wolfgang----I think b/c he's very responsive to her.  If she sniffs him, he turns and watches her or hits her butt.  If she gets too close to any of the cats and they want her to go away, the cats will swat her (without claws).  Mostly my white female has issues w/ Jessica getting too close.  I have caught Jessi laying down w/ the cats, but, I think for my 12 yr old felines, she's just way too active.

I hope this helps to figure out some answers.  I really want Jessica back to roaming around.  Oh yeah!  On Saturday, when we stepped out to the store, we left the tv on for added noise...maybe to make Jessi think we were home and she didn't potty.  We've noticed that when we are around (within the same room), she doesn't poo or pee excessively...she will leave a few cocoa puffs to let us know she's here!

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Ghandi


User is Offline Gravehearted
Campbell, CA
2442 posts Send Private Message
3/20/2007 11:20 AM
she may act submissive to them - but peeing in the cat zone is a VERY clear territorial message!
~ bunny mom to to HRH Hareiette, Viktor the crazy Krum and Pandora, prima binky ballerina ~ Save a life, Adopt!

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
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3/20/2007 12:25 PM

Actually her bowing her head can be a dominant move.  Is her body leaning forward or hunched up with caution when bows her head to them.

She may be asking them to groom her which in her own mind is saying - GROOM THE QUEEN!  And if they don't abide, then she may resort to peeing on their stuff.

She may not do it when  you are in the room because she may see  you as the top dominant role, and so she has no need to push herself around.  But when left alone with the cats, she sees that she is the next top bun in line, and so she will rule the roost when you are not there. (in bed, gone whatever)

This really is a tough one because cats don't live by the same strict heirarchy rules that rabbits do.  Though cats can live in groups, their instincts and rules of interaction aren't the same as group animals, like dogs, and rabbits.   The importance of being a top dog and top rabbit may not be as important to a cat because they can live alone.   So they could care less if they don't abide by these same rules.

So what to do, what to do.... Somehow Jessica is just going to have to accept not being the top bun in the cat world.   I will have to ask around and do some research.  

If she is truly passive, and they are telling her to leave and she's not ready to leave, or she gets scared then she can step up her game and do the marking to tell them that she lives here too and she's part of the group to reinforce their acceptance.

For now, to save your furniture she may have to be pen when you're not watching her and during her time out, you may have to watch her carefully so that everytime she begins to go in a naughty place, you escort her back to her litterbox.

I'll keep you updated with what other solutions I come up with and maybe someone else who has also gone through this may be able to help.

 


User is Offline skunklionshow
City of Brotherly "Shove"
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3/22/2007 9:39 AM

It doesn't surprise me if she thinks she's the queen, that's how she was in our therapy program.  She was definately the queen bee and the kids loved her for it.

Now she's gone back to pooping all over.  She gets caged, at night and when I'm at work, so she hasn't pee'd anywhere.  She was just so great w/ the litterbox, so I'm really disappointed.  Bunnies are VERY complex creatures...I had no idea.  Anyway...I've noticed w/ the poops that she will often sleep in the area that she pooped in.  She lays all the way down w/ her back and front legs stretched out.  I didn't think they liked to lay where they pottie.

During her bowing, her butt is usually up in the air.  Its just the front of her body that bows down (paws and head).  On occassion when Max grooms her head he gives her slight nips.  We call this Max's "licky, licky, bite, bite" tubby.  He does the same w/ the other cats and its mostly just a gummy nip, no teeth are sunk into the skin.  Jessica seems to prefer Max and will often seek him out...maybe b/c he does lick the Queen Bee.  Its hard to correct her by escorting her to the litterbox....she takes it as chasing and runs around like a crazy beast.

I'd appreciate any suggestions/assistance.  I want Jessica to be happy and free, but I don't want my house destroyed in the process.  We had to replace our living room rug and toss out the sofa slipcover (I got the pee off, but my hubby felt she would constantly come back to the pee spot) already, and I just don't want to constantly replace my "stuff". 

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Ghandi


User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
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3/22/2007 10:29 AM

It sounds like she may be doing a "cautious" request.  However, if she actually leans into them, then she could be just doing a full blown dominant request.

Also, regarding escorting her to her litterbox.  The running around really is normal at first. She's not sure where she's supposed to go and it can really be a pain!    It takes patience....lots of patience.   Some bunnies get it with in a few days, others are more stubborn.   So though it really is irritating, the outcome can help bring peace.

This is the actual method:   When you want her to go to the litterbox, you begin your broken record horribly annoying request "litterbox, litterbox, litterbox...."   Don't yell it, just say it so she isn't scared. And get some ear plugs for other members of your household because they may want to dump you in the litterbox while this is going on.

ANYWAY, so you say the word litterbox while you are walking behind her.(herd her in the direction of the litterbox)  Don't chase otherwise she'll get scared.   So you keep saying litterbox and keep walking behind her until she actually jumps into the litterbox. (You may have to close doors behind you to keep her more and more confined as  you get closer to the box)  The moment she FINALLY jumps in the box, you stop talking and back away.   If she just refuses to get it, then you can pick her up, place her right in front of the litterbox and block her way so that she can only go IN the box (all the while still saying "litterbox" and of course stop saying litterbox the moment she jumps in.   She will soon realize that the litterbox gets you to stop your constant hovering and following.   Then  pretty soon, she will associate the word litterbox with that action.   So  you only have to say it once or twice while moving in her direction and off she'll go to the box.  

The other good thing about this is that this may also help her identify the litterbox as HER place, and the rest of the place as your place or at least everyone's space and that can help with negative marking habits.


User is Offline skunklionshow
City of Brotherly "Shove"
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3/23/2007 8:32 AM

My husband nearly had a heart attack yesterday when he came home and saw that Jessi pee'd on the couch (again) and pooped everywhere!!!  He never had pets growing up, so he doesn't seem to get that they don't always get our human ways and they need to learn.  He's very old school (AKA wrong) w/ animals...i.e. believes that you rub a dog's face in their accidents.  He needs to learn just like Jessi.

I will try the litterbox verbal requests w/ her...we'll also try this with her cage.  Its like a nightmare getting her caged for the night.  Would it help if we reward her when she follows our requests (positive reinforcement w/ a carrot?).  My husband doesn't like to do this b/c she gets mean/angry and lunges at us after we cage her. 

We are both committed to making this work for Jess.  I think that I have more patience for the beasties than he does.  I greatly appreciate your help Binky....I want a happy Binky Bunny too!!!!

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Ghandi


User is Offline Bear
United Kingdom
41 posts Send Private Message
3/26/2007 5:21 AM
Gosh your advice on this topic i helping me too I think.... I had friends stay at the weekend and Teddy had too much free roaming time coz we were all a bit tipsy, anyway friends stayed in my bed and i had the couch... after they'd gone home... Teddy pee'd on my bed whilst i was peeing in my en suite so could stop him in time and then ran off into the lounge and pee'd on the sofa too. Do you think he did this to rid of my friends scents?

User is Offline skunklionshow
City of Brotherly "Shove"
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3/26/2007 10:06 AM

We started the "litterbox" and "cage" requests on Friday.  Boy repeating "litterbox" like 300 times is a real tongue twister.

I just let Jess out when I got home.  I went to use the potty upstairs and came back down and saw that she left a bunch of poops where I sit on the couch.  MMMPH!!!!  I guess she's trying to tell me something!!!

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Ghandi


User is Offline Gravehearted
Campbell, CA
2442 posts Send Private Message
3/27/2007 10:24 AM
it is an ongoing process for sure, she's just really a very territorial bun it sounds like!
bravo to you for your commitment and patience.
~ bunny mom to to HRH Hareiette, Viktor the crazy Krum and Pandora, prima binky ballerina ~ Save a life, Adopt!

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
8672 posts Send Private Message
3/28/2007 2:56 PM
Posted By skunklionshow on 03/26/2007 1:06 PM

We started the "litterbox" and "cage" requests on Friday.  Boy repeating "litterbox" like 300 times is a real tongue twister.

I just let Jess out when I got home.  I went to use the potty upstairs and came back down and saw that she left a bunch of poops where I sit on the couch.  MMMPH!!!!  I guess she's trying to tell me something!!!



LOL! I know what you mean about repeating litterbox over and over.  Pretty soon the mantra sounds like lidderbugs.   It begins to feel ridiculous, and if anyone came in I'm sure they'd think you need to be committed.   You have to be sure to catch her in the act - so that means watching her carefully and the moment she does it or begins to do it, that's when she goes to the box.  (hopefully I told you this before - if not - WHOOOOOOPS, sorry)

Sounds like she really can't be left alone at all.   She's a persistent sneaky strong willed one!


User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
8672 posts Send Private Message
3/28/2007 4:03 PM
Posted By Bear on 03/26/2007 8:21 AM
Gosh your advice on this topic i helping me too I think.... I had friends stay at the weekend and Teddy had too much free roaming time coz we were all a bit tipsy, anyway friends stayed in my bed and i had the couch... after they'd gone home... Teddy pee'd on my bed whilst i was peeing in my en suite so could stop him in time and then ran off into the lounge and pee'd on the sofa too. Do you think he did this to rid of my friends scents?


Could be!  I know that when I have a pet sitter come in, my bunnies feel the need to mark more.
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