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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > HOUSE RABBIT Q & A > Bonding Process...
Last Post by MooBunnay at 5/17/2008 8:47 AM (26 Replies)
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User is Offline JodiM
Smiths Falls Ont.
102 posts Send Private Message
4/30/2008 5:37 AM

Hey Guys!

So just another update. Things seem to be going well. According to the bunny bonding Info.  We are are at step; Semi - neutral spot.

The one thing i notice is that Flopsy and Carmel seem to want to be around each other.  Except that once they are together Carmel the male continously humps poor Flopsy(female).  Flopsy will get irritated at some point and put her foot down, and bat him, or she'll just keep trying to run away,  Carmel will lay down beside her for a bit, wait and then jump right back on!  Is this all good??

Also Carmel is quite the pooper! He pee's in the litter box but poo's everywhere in his area.  He's still recently neutered, so I'm hoping with time this will improve.

 

Jodi a.k.a
Bun slave to Flopsy and Carmel

Don't Shop, ADOPT!!

User is Offline MarkBun
Richmond, CA
2825 posts Send Private Message
4/30/2008 7:11 AM
I am assuming that Flopsy is spayed? If not, and it is a recent neuter, she can still get pregnant. Male buns can store their seed up to 30 days after being neutered. Other than that, it's all just fine. The humping will decrease over time and the poo is just Carmel marking his territory. Once he accepts that the house is his, he won't do it any longer.
My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond!

User is Offline JodiM
Smiths Falls Ont.
102 posts Send Private Message
5/01/2008 1:45 AM

Yes!!! Both of my rabbits are fixed!

Jodi a.k.a
Bun slave to Flopsy and Carmel

Don't Shop, ADOPT!!

User is Offline rabbitsmba
Mississauga, ON, Canada
480 posts Send Private Message
5/01/2008 11:05 AM
The pooping and peeing everywhere is also a territorial behaviour. Once he settles in, it should stop.

All the behaviour you describe seems normal - I think you are on the right track! Remember, patience and persistence is key! Good luck!

User is Offline MarkBun
Richmond, CA
2825 posts Send Private Message
5/01/2008 11:05 AM
Then I wouldn't worry too much. I wouldn't seperate them as that could cause harder bonding issues later. You should see a decrease in all of the habits you mention as time goes on, with a severe dropoff happening about 3-4 weeks after his neuter.
My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond!

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
8674 posts Send Private Message
5/04/2008 8:41 PM
It actually sounds like a normal non-aggressive bonding. But you do want to watch that Flopsy doesn't get so irritated that it will end up in a fight. You may want to give her a break if he constantly bombards her. How long does he bug her for? When does he finally give her a break? After how many minutes or ???

User is Offline JodiM
Smiths Falls Ont.
102 posts Send Private Message
5/05/2008 11:04 AM
I guess I'll pay more attention to the time when they are together. I know he does eventually stop for a short period. sometimes I pull him off. But I'll pay attention to the time tonight and report back! Thanks
Jodi a.k.a
Bun slave to Flopsy and Carmel

Don't Shop, ADOPT!!

User is Offline JodiM
Smiths Falls Ont.
102 posts Send Private Message
5/06/2008 12:46 PM
okay, so last night I pay attention to time. Carmel humped Flopsy on and off for about 30 minutes. when he wasn't trying to hump he would lay on her head, or lay beside her. I should do a video clip so that you can see how the reactions are going. Flopsy just sits still, doesnt' move too much. when she gets annoyed, after about 10 minutes , she does a little grunt and bats him, but goes back to sitting in one spot.
Jodi a.k.a
Bun slave to Flopsy and Carmel

Don't Shop, ADOPT!!

User is Offline JodiM
Smiths Falls Ont.
102 posts Send Private Message
5/08/2008 2:04 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaUneXAP6Ko

Here is a video of bonding session 1, I'll try and upload a recent session.

Jodi a.k.a
Bun slave to Flopsy and Carmel

Don't Shop, ADOPT!!

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
8674 posts Send Private Message
5/08/2008 10:43 PM

First, regarding the territorial poops. Though it will improve once his hormones die down (how recently neutered?) you will find that until they work out their relationship, the poop thing may go on for a while.

Okay, that video was really helpful. Carmel (the brown and white?) definitely is wanting to claim dominance. He first asks to be groomed by Flopsy(the gray one?) and when she not only refuses but boxes at him in full blown refusal of his "groom me" request (another dominant move) he takes to humping her to prove that she MUST groom him. If she would groom him when he asks, I bet he would not hump her so much. (of course this is just based off that one piece of video.

SO, since she's not fighting for dominance, only refusing to oblige his requests for dominance, the plan is to get her to relax and groom him.

This is actually going well, no real agression and they may work it out, but here's what I think you should do when things began to escalate or if Flopsy's annoyance begins to hinder the sessions:  Be more involved with comfort (you may already be, and just didnt' show it on the camera to be out of the way)

So for example, allow Carmel to mount for 20 seconds at a time (unless you see Flopsy getting mad) but WHILE Carmel is mounting, pet Flopsy to keep her calm. Also, males have a tendency to bite while they are mounting which then makes the female run away or fight, so if you see Carmel doing that, just gently push his mouth away, but don't push him off. Allow him to mount for 20 seconds, and then give her a minute or two break before allowing him to mount again.

You can also try putting some banana on Carmel's head (just smush a bit on there) and when he approaches Flopsy, maybe she wouldn't be so opposed to his groom request if he tasted good!

Also, when you see Carmel asking to be groomed and Flopsy boxes, the next time he comes to request grooming, pet them both. Make that interaction less threatening for both of them by making it pleasurable and relaxing. Now, your own hand may get boxed, so I always advise gloves.

Keep us updated!


User is Offline JodiM
Smiths Falls Ont.
102 posts Send Private Message
5/09/2008 2:42 AM

WoW! Your amazing! I can't wait to get more video!!

Okay so thanks soo much for all that great info, I never would have read all that bunny body language!  I will try your techniques and see how it works.  I'll get another vid up Asap so you can analize it for me!

Jodi a.k.a
Bun slave to Flopsy and Carmel

Don't Shop, ADOPT!!

User is Offline JodiM
Smiths Falls Ont.
102 posts Send Private Message
5/09/2008 10:08 AM
Okay, so I took more video today! Today was a really good day, I actually was able to let them be together for a few hours. Not completely unattended, as I was in the same area, but I just let them do there own thing. Flopsy really seems to like to hang out in Carmel's area. Strange.But good I think.
Here are more video's from today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTGFiUydGmQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2XBnbWea3M
Jodi a.k.a
Bun slave to Flopsy and Carmel

Don't Shop, ADOPT!!

User is Offline MarkBun
Richmond, CA
2825 posts Send Private Message
5/09/2008 10:17 AM
It seems to be going better. It is still as BinkyB says - that Carmel is asking to be groomed and when not obliged, he tried to mount. She seems to be less agressive towards him and actually seems to be all but oblivious to him until he starts to mount her - another good sign.
My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond!

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
8674 posts Send Private Message
5/09/2008 12:13 PM

Aw, they actually seem to be doing well so far.  She is doing the non-aggressive move of 'ignoring".   They actually know exactly what is going on,  but by sniffing around and pretending the other doesn't exist is actually a "peace" move.  I definitely think they want to be friends.  They are just working on their roles. 

The great thing is that neither one seem overly dominant aggressive. They make the moves, but each states their "opinion" with little serious aggression. It's obvious that Carmel doesn't like getting boxed, but he won't fight her and it doesn't make him mad. So basically she is teaching him what she will put up with. She is showing she will be friends, but she's not taking on a full passive role.  She may even at one point try and dominate him by mounting. That wouldn't surprise me with her.

In the meantime, they seem to be doing well - not getting territorial over the food etc, just more about the grooming roles.

So just keep doin what you are doing, keep things at their pace.   Biggest mistake people make is when things are going well to push it too fast.  Better to take it the safe route.   Not saying you would do that, you seem to be doing great, just offering up an extra word of advice.

ALSO, it is spring/summer, and this is the time when even neutered males get that "lovin" feelin sometimes.(like my bunny Jack - he's been a real pest to Rucy) So though I don't doubt much of Carmel's behavior has mostly to do with dominance, if you hear a low honk buzz noise coming from him, then at least at that time, it's the sound of "love". Also, when was he neutered?


User is Offline JodiM
Smiths Falls Ont.
102 posts Send Private Message
5/09/2008 2:32 PM
I can't find the sheet I got from the rescue that I got Carmel at , so I'm going to guess that he has only been neutered for about 3 weeks now. Not very long at all. Flopsy has also only been spayed for about 6 weeks maybe 8.
I thought things were going well myself, but I just needed a second opinion since I've never bonded rabbits before.
Also, yes I have noticed Carmel making a funny low noise when he's around Flopsy. Not as often anymore usually only when he's looking for a way to mount her.
Thanks for the input ladies!!
Jodi a.k.a
Bun slave to Flopsy and Carmel

Don't Shop, ADOPT!!

User is Offline electro-weezle
cornwall, england
75 posts Send Private Message
5/12/2008 9:15 AM
my bunny millie has started humping and grooming a toy elephant :L bless her x
"jupiter plays jenga with fish fingers"
<3 hhmm <3

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
8674 posts Send Private Message
5/14/2008 7:41 PM

electro-weezle - how old is Millie again? Just was checking on something - are you sure she is a she? Not that females won't mount out of dominance, and that could be exactly what she is doing, but just to be sure. Also, does she circle the toy first and/or make any low buzz noises. If you do find this happening, you might want to take a quick peek at the privates to double check.


User is Offline JodiM
Smiths Falls Ont.
102 posts Send Private Message
5/15/2008 1:46 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB2WhUJhkmk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLWbNHKcz8U

If anyone has a chance to check out these videos and get back to me on what's going on here, that would be great.
Jodi a.k.a
Bun slave to Flopsy and Carmel

Don't Shop, ADOPT!!

User is Offline MarkBun
Richmond, CA
2825 posts Send Private Message
5/15/2008 1:01 PM

The first video is just Carmel trying to establish dominance.  This can go on for some time even after they're bonded.  Many buns don't like to be mounted though but all Flopsy is doing is getting away from him.  The fact that Flopsy is grooming Carmel in the second video, especially when he presents himself the second time and she immediately picks up the signal and begins grooming means that you are basically done.

I would say at this point, they should be housed together.  Keep an eye on them but let them share everything.  There is a pen setup where you have a rectangular X-pen but have a  'L' shaped wall in the center so that it breaks up the area a bit.  That way, Flopsy has a place to run away to when Carmel gets friskey.  And, if they begin fighting too much, you can straighten out the L and cut the X-pen in half.  The 'L' is just a two piece gate that spans the width of the X pen that you then you fold half back at 90 degrees to make the L

This should be done in neutral territory for about 2 weeks  before moving them into their permament home in someone else's territoroy - unless the vid we just saw wasn't in neutral territory in which case, I'd say you've already gotten past that point.

My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond!

User is Offline JodiM
Smiths Falls Ont.
102 posts Send Private Message
5/15/2008 4:55 PM

Ok!  They are no longer in neutral territory.  Actually this morning Flopsy hopped into Carmel's cage and they sat on one of his levels together. No humping. Every so often they groomed one another.

But you answered my question! I just wanted to be sure I wasn't forcing Carmel on Flopsy and creating an issue between them.  I sometimes think they are getting along great and then he gets all hornified, and ruins my conception of the whole thing. Causing me to come on here and basically whine and cry for help, when really I guess there isn't much help needed.

Thanks for the input!

Jodi a.k.a
Bun slave to Flopsy and Carmel

Don't Shop, ADOPT!!
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