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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > BONDING > My bonding quest with Maryann
Last Post by Beth K at 1/13/2011 9:28 PM (144 Replies)
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User is Offline Thumpers_Mom
New York
171 posts Send Private Message
2/07/2008 8:37 AM

Wow Markus...I've been MIA for a while and just now had the chance to catch up on Maryann and Dono. I am so glad to hear that you are still going full steam ahead...

I just finished watching you last clip and it looks GREAT. The fact that he will groom in front of her is a good sign. You are doing absolutely fantabulous and I agree that they WILL bond!

*jackie


User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
7887 posts Send Private Message
2/07/2008 8:40 AM
Yipes! 0.o I just watched the first vid with them both hopping out of the bonding box at opposite times and those nasty nips! (Come on, Maryann, this is your dream bun and you know it!) I feel so sorry for you Markus...you must be so weary of chasing one bun after the other! ^^;
They DO seem to be settling down a bit. The calm moments are so precious!

Will watch the other clips too...I think this will definitely help to show to my daughter also. I am unsure she realizes just what an adventure is coming up for her when we try to bond Mimzy and Pip.

This looks like my attempts to introduce my feral cat to my other two house cats. (If anyone here has read the "Warriors" series by Erin Hunter, you would understand the difference between a clan cat and a kittypet...definitely what I have here!) "Hello Kitty" is my feral cat and she has been a house pet and been abandoned. She was attacked by other cats and her left rear leg is the worse for it. She is very tender back there and so she works hard to protect that flank. My two, of course, feel they have seniority and that she should tow the party line. So we have frequent fighting and it just breaks my heart because I can see what good friends they could be if they would only settle down. I get SO tired though of having to patch up scrapes and scratches (and mostly on me, not the cats!)

I will be keeping you in my prayers, Markus, and Dono and Maryann too. I hope this all works out and SOON. You guys are going to drop from exhaustion!
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User is Offline MarkBun
Richmond, CA
2819 posts Send Private Message
2/07/2008 10:00 AM
Well the two buns were always comfortable enough in each other's presence to groom. For Maryann, it is a proximity thing - whether they come close to her or she happens to be close to them.

Heather from Rabbit Haven, where I got Dono, has seen the last video and she is of the mindset that I should probably start looking for another boy. She knew Dono as a friendly and curious bun and to see him scrunched up in the corner in fear and letting another bun bite him - it is breaking her heart. We are discussing bringing Maryann down to meet another dutch dwarf to see if that will work any better.

I'd miss Dono as he has begun to grow on me and he has just started to let more of his peronality show. But if it is in his best interest to find a gal that will just accept him for who he is, I'm all for making him happy.

Again, I am not giving up but deferring to people who have done this alot more than I have. I've given the two buns the last couple of days off from bonding work and will probably try again Friday night before heading down with them on Saturday. Who knows, maybe it will be one of those stories of 'just when I was about to get rid of the other bun...'
My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond!

User is Offline kralspace
West, Texas
2680 posts Send Private Message
2/07/2008 10:46 AM

wow, sounds like all of you have been working hard! When I was trying to bond Daisy and Lola, after about a month we had gotten so close, but I still couldn't trust them together alone. Just a lot of irritating petty bickering if you know what I mean. Like kids going "MOM! it's LOOKING at me!"

I finally got fed up with it and turned them loose in the living room for the weekend while I rebuilt the condo, and let my dog, Floppie, wander through on the way to the kitchen. She'd never hurt a fly and never even looked their way, but boy, did those 2 bunnies huddle together under the stove. All weekend, if I saw them starting to fuss, I'd call Floppie in and those 2 bunnies were trying to crawl into each other's skin they were snuggling so close. They moved liked they were attached together from shoulder to hip and now in their condo, they're love buns.

I know that sounds mean, but the car rides, the bucket trots, nothing else seemed to faze them much, guess they know I wouldn't hurt them. But one whiff of doggie BO and they became siamese twins.

My Bunny Burrow is full! Pringles & Toby, Daisy & Lola, and my senior citizens Hershey & Simba.
The piggies are back, add Brownie and Sweetpea to the mix.

User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
7887 posts Send Private Message
2/07/2008 11:08 AM
Oh dear! (suppresses a giggle) That is a funny story about your dog and bunnies. I would try something like that, however, my dogs are WAY too big and unpredictable to let them supervise our bunnies. Anyway, knowing Mim, he'd warn them once with a foot stomp...then most likely they'd be running yelping with the bun on their heels and his fangs bared! 0.o

He's been all upset while the two dogs have been indoors for the deep cold. Throws his litter box and makes as much noise as possible to let me know just HOW unhappy he is! He doesn't want me taking care of anyone but him. >.<

I am sorry though to hear that the curtain may be going down on the romance between Dono and Maryann. But he IS such a sweet bun, and maybe that is what's sticking in Maryann's craw...she might prefer a more dominant bun than she? Or maybe she's just one of those 'girls who wanna have fun'?
That you are considering Dono's feelings in this situation is sweet and tugs at my heart. You are a great bunny parent!

My guess is, she doesn't want to share Markus. *nods*
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User is Offline MarkBun
Richmond, CA
2819 posts Send Private Message
2/08/2008 5:38 AM

Well Auntie Heather has a new boy in mind for Maryann to meet.  Lenny

I'm not sure if he'll be any better though.  For one, he's less than a year old and two - Maryann is a persnickety deva.  I think that Heather is hoping that another Dutch would be able to handle Maryann's temperment better.  But, if they don't hit it off and hit it off well tomorrow, I'm going to stick with Dono for another two weeks.  The holidays are coming up and I'd want to give him a chance with the boarding/bonding session.

Tonight is laundry night so I'll be bringing the two down to the laundrymat and let them ride the dryers.  After which, we'll go home and I'll put them both into Dono's large cage and see if they've 'matured' any.  Here's hoping for a last minute love interest.

EDIT: I'm not heading down on Saturday to meet Lenny.  I refuse to give up on Dono yet.  Going to try some more bonding this weekend at HRS, followed by more car rides next week and dropping them off at Save A Bunny for boarding and bonding during the holidays.

My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond!

User is Offline Lion_Lop_Lover
New Brunswick, Canada
972 posts Send Private Message
2/08/2008 10:01 AM
Good luck! We'll be anxious to hear...!
Everything happens for a reason.
If it is meant to be, it will be.
~ Words I have to live by.

User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
7887 posts Send Private Message
2/08/2008 4:21 PM
Ride the dryers? Oh my I haven't heard anything like that since my babies were born! ^^
I'm wishing you the best of fortunes with Dono, Markus. And if fate has other ideas, well that Lenny is quite the looker! What a great profile photo!

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User is Offline MarkBun
Richmond, CA
2819 posts Send Private Message
2/08/2008 7:54 PM
Well the riding the dryers resulted in an all out fight once they got out of the carrier. Dono didn't back down and went at her. So I guess I WILL be bringing them down and see what's up with Lenny and maybe see if there's something I'm missing. I am going to have Dr. Harvey check to make sure that Maryann had a full spaying and it wasn't a botched job as well as check for... cicullocus? Dun remember what it is but they check the poo for it.
My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond!

User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
7887 posts Send Private Message
2/09/2008 11:10 AM
Oh no! I'm sorry to hear that. Well, I guess it's best then to let the bunnies go their separate ways.
While watching the bad bonding clip a few more times, I noticed that spot in it where Dono went under Maryann's chin and seemed to nibble at it. I think he was going for the grooming command there, which means he was trying to take the spot as top bun. (Someone else may have mentioned this already, if so I am sorry.) But if neither will back down then, well, *sigh* one has to move on I guess.

I will continue to send good wishes and hope for the best. Take care!
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User is Offline MarkBun
Richmond, CA
2819 posts Send Private Message
2/09/2008 8:59 PM

So, I brought them down to see Auntie Heather. As it always is with them, they didn't fight at all in the carrier and, in fact, Dono gave her a little grooming. Heather decided to put Lenny in with Maryann and boy was she surprised when SHE was the one that got bit first! She also put her in with a couple other male bunnies, including one that tried to mount her and another that chased her out of his pen area. For some reason, when she was put back into the shopping cart with Dono, she seemed to realize what a prize she had. Meanwhile, Dono was upset with her for seeing all the other boys. There was no more fighting between the two of them.  And then something, as far as I'm concerned, was amazing.  Maryann mounted Dono.  Although this was an 'aggressive' showing of dominance, it was much better than biting him.

Heather then tried another technique where she put a rolled up towel between the two of them, dividing the cart in half. Amazingly enough, both of them respected each other's 'side' of the cart and didn't cross it. They sniffed and everything esle but never attacked each other. Then, on the ride home, Maryann made sure to snuggle next to Dono the entire way. Whenever she was shifted due to the bumpy ride, she plopped herself down against him afterwards. It was in the yin/yang position but still was encouraging.

So, yes, I do still have Dono and I've got a new type of bonding (the blanket border) to try with them. They'll also have a few days alone at SaveABunny for bonding work there.

Who knows, might still work out...

My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond!

User is Offline babybunsmum
Waterloo ON Canada
3872 posts Send Private Message
2/10/2008 4:50 AM

markus you DEF win the prize for 'most patient bunny slave while bonding'!!!  isn't it amazing how back & forth their bonding experiences have been?  whether or not it works out for maryann & dono, one thing is for sure... they have a great home with you

I like work. It fascinates me. I sit and look at it for hours.

User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
7887 posts Send Private Message
2/11/2008 4:12 PM
OMG! I am on the edge of my seat! 0_o (bites nails waiting for the next installment) This is worse than a soap opera, waiting for these two buns to fall in love! ^^
And well, there's nothing like a bad boy to teach you what a good guy you have right in front of you. You go, Dono! Woohoo! ^^

And Markus, wow...just WOW. You are the best bunny parent I know! Good for you for being so tenacious!
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User is Offline MarkBun
Richmond, CA
2819 posts Send Private Message
2/12/2008 10:55 AM

Although I appreciate the praise of bein' a good parent, I am more just too lazy to go through the dating process again.  My buns spend most of their day in their cages next to each other - although I have noticed that Maryann is no longer giving him the butt but rather sits looking at him.  They get about a 45 min bonding session every other night and I let them out for an hour each when able.  Unfortunately, my landlord pushed up the inspection date to this Thursday so everything is on hold now while I paint my bathroom and get the rest of the place up to his standards. 

I feel somewhat ashamed that I'm not a better parent:

  • They don't always get free time out of their cage
  • I don't always have greens on hand for them
  • I even have gone a day without even giving them pets.

My life is a busy one, that's why I wanted to get a playmate.  I have bunnyproofed my bedroom so once they're bonded, they can have free run of it 24/7 and I won't have to worry about Maryann getting into TOO much trouble with Dono at her side.  Or maybe it'll be double - either way, once bonded I hope to earn those praises of being a great bunny parent.

I will probably not get a bonding session in before the weekend due to all of this work.  So I'll be dropping them off at SaveABunny in Mill Valley Friday afternoon.  They'll take care of the buns and also try some bonding with them.

 

 

My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond!

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
8672 posts Send Private Message
2/12/2008 9:08 PM

I sure hope SaveABunny will be able to help. They are great over there! Tell Marcy or JoAnne (whomever helps you out) hello for me! What I noticed from that video right off the bat was Dono was way too tense, (understandably if he's fearing Maryann's wrath), and his tenseness also makes MaryAnn even more aggressive. So if the stress methods are not working and/or it actually only makes them worse, then you may need to take things back a notch.

What looks like has happened is they know that when they bond - it's just not going to go well, at least for Dono.  It looks as if MaryAnne asks to be groomed and is very impatient if Dono does not oblige right away.  You have one very bossy diva queen there. If the saveabunny thing doesn't work, and you still want to continue to try, I would give them a break for a week, and then bring the most aggressive or tense one into the bonding area first (you may have to try a new bonding place if they fought many times in the same area) and get that bunny very relaxed.  I normally wouldn't advise having one bunny in alone first as they could establish it as their territory, but right now from the history of things, it sounds less about territory (as they will fight even the suspended carrier) and more about their own relationship issues, so that is why I think you should bring in the most aggressive or tense one in, and get them calm - pet slowly, and calmly and rub their forehead and cheek, then bring the other bunny in and don't let them interact right away - just only seeing each other but pet them both. Only do this for five or so minutes, and then stop the session, until next time. And slowly increase the time. The idea is to help them associate each other with just relaxation and calm. You can even try giving them each a healthy treat the moment that they see each other (again not to interact yet)

NOTE: if you find that if you bring in MaryAnne in first, and she freaks the moment you bring in Dono, then try it the other way around, so that she is coming into a space he is already in.

My guess if Maryanne is dominate, then when Dono is placed over this bossy gal, it could make her even get more mad, so in this case, it may not help to put one bunny over the other. She has to feel confident that Dono will follow her queendom rules and not try to dominate her before she would be able to calm down.

I won't give anymore advice until after SaveAbunny has had a chance with them. I think if anyone could help them out, they could!

Oh, BTW, I hope your back is doing better.  I actually had my back go out while after so many sessions of bonding. It really is terrible for our backs!


User is Offline MarkBun
Richmond, CA
2819 posts Send Private Message
2/18/2008 6:05 PM

Hello all.

I just got back from my conference and have been in touch a couple times during the weekend with SaveABunny. First off, I want to say that they have perhaps some of the most gorgeous buns I have ever seen there. I immediately wanted to take three of them home and I was watchin' a poor mom taking a break from her kids in there. They took her out of her cage, put her into an X-pen and she almost immediately flopped over for a snooze. If you've never been, their setup is a bit tight but incredible and the one person I met there just gave off the vibe of being an incredible rabbit person (Of course, I am terrible with names so I don't remember hers).

Oh, and I got to meet the presidential canidate, Mr. Pinkerton. I have to say that he seems a bit quiet on the issues but he does love to 'press the flesh' with the voters.

Since there was a nice long car ride over there (once again Dono grooming Maryann on the trip over), they put them both immediately into an X-pen. After talking for a time and watching them (including one of Maryann's slow approach and nips), they decided that it would actually be best if both of them were in the same pen during the time there! Although a bit afraid, they seemed to really know what they were talking about, including a specific setup of the X-pen to discourage continued fights. With a heavy heart, I left by babies there and got ready for my conference - and let me tell you, nothing has tugged at my heart as much as coming home and immediately seeing the two empty cages.

On Sunday Morning I called and Gary answered. He said that he hadn't been 'on the case' all that much but what he had seen was rather mild. They had been in the same cage the entire time and fighting was almost non-existant. I think he said that from Friday afternoon until Sunday morning, only two instances of Maryann's nipping were recorded. He then told me to call them on Monday to talk to Marcy as she was out at a show that day.

On my way home from the conference, I called them and Marcy chatted with me. She said that there hasn't been any fighting and the aggression seems to have gone away. Instead of saying that Maryann was nipping Dono, she said that she would pull his fur. I suppose that this is a more accurate description of what she does and it seemed to mean a big difference to her.

As of Monday morning, they would 'sit together' (which could mean the usual sitting near each other but I was too tired to ask any questions) and Dono does groom Maryann and Maryann has groomed Dono! That was fantastic to hear. Although, apparently, she's a bit of an aggressive groomer. My personal thought is that Dono keeps expecting the bite so he flinches and it looks like she's being rough. But Marcy says that they are over the hump now. She wants to keep them for a couple more days to make sure things settle and solidify and if all goes well, I'll get them back on Wednesday.

I'll be sure to ask for as much details as possible of not only what went on while I was gone but also what I need to do going forward. Although this entire retreat for them is costing me a bit, I would gladly spend more if it means the two of them bond!

I am very happy right now.

As always BB, thanks for your thoughts.  I'll keep all of them in mind when the lil' dikens get home.  Oh, and yes the back is much better. In fact, it only hurts when the physical therapist works on it. I think he's looking for job security.

My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond!

User is Offline babybunsmum
Waterloo ON Canada
3872 posts Send Private Message
2/19/2008 4:10 AM

job security... lol. 

what a fabulous chapter in your bonding saga!  can't wait to hear the details of their retreat and what they recommend you continue with. 

I like work. It fascinates me. I sit and look at it for hours.

User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
7887 posts Send Private Message
2/19/2008 6:28 PM
Wow, what a sweet episode in the continuing Maryann/Dono saga! *sigh*
I wonder if I can find a retreat like that? Sounds like fun! ^^ Though I'll take a nice poolside lounge chair over an xpen anyday!
Take a rest Markus! You've deserved it! I sure hope all continues to go well for the lovebirds...err...lovebuns...and let us know the latest when you can!
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User is Offline MarkBun
Richmond, CA
2819 posts Send Private Message
2/20/2008 7:44 AM

I am going to go pick up the two rascals today.  Marcy at SaveABunny tells me that the two of them are currently snuggling and they've been doing that for most of the last 24 hours.  I told her I'll believe it when I see it.   I need to try and find some neutral place to put them but not sure where that could be.  I am going to try the bathroom again and hope that it's not too much of her territory as she rarely, if ever, ventures in there.

 If this works, it'll be worth the $200 I spent on the bonding & boarding.  And once again, I am amazed at how much I spend on my lil girl who cost me only $10 from the animal shelter.

 

My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond!

User is Offline Kokaneeandkahlua
Edmonton, Alberta; Canada
Forum Leader
11445 posts Send Private Message
2/20/2008 9:27 AM
AWESOME NEWS!!! Let us know how it goes when you get back!! I'm sooo excited for you!
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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > BONDING > My bonding quest with Maryann

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