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Forum BEHAVIOR Spayed with neutered bonding

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    • Koton
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        Hi guys, so a little story before I post my actual questions. Me and my ex originally got Koton, he was a rex mix bunny, lost him after getting him neutered. Literally 3 days after we got Pikus (pea-kush), he’s a lion head, already neutered. Last year in spring we adopted two lion head baby girls, Tofi and Mufi. Then my ex decided to ditch out on our happy little furry family and I had to give the girls back to the breeder but I kept Pikus because he’s potty trained and very easy maintenance. By now I’m sure you can tell that the girls were simply too much upkeep but they ended up in good hands. Nanette the breeder takes care of her bunnies like they’re her children so I knew they were going to be looked after.

        A year has passed and I’ve made a decision to get Tofi back. I love that bunny. She’s a real trouble maker and gets into everything and is super smart, that’s probably why I’ve been thinking about getting her back this whole time. The trouble is simple – Tofi wasn’t then and still isn’t potty trained. I’ve trained Pikus but he was already neutered. Neither of the girls were spayed at the time because they were still babies. Here’s my other concern…

        Since the year passed and it’s just been me and Pikus he literally has the whole apartment to himself. When I leave for work he’s usually in his cage, I can’t have him running around for his own safety because of wires and everything, but when I get home I’m with him. Usually after I hold him he’ll stay out for several hours, then run back in the cage to poop or pee and either run back out or stay in and relax. I know he’s territorial (as most bunnies are) which brings me to another problem – I don’t want him to think that he’s going to get any less love because that’s not the case. I also don’t want him to get jealous or feel threatened by Tofi in any way. I simply want him to have a companion throughout the day when I’m not there so he’s not completely alone plus I want Tofi back because I miss her a lot.

        She’s still not fixed and she had few babies since. We’ve tried bonding them before but neither of us really knew what we were doing and didn’t know that Pikus chasing Tofi is actually NOT a sign of aggression. Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.


      • joea64
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          The absolutely mandatory thing to do if you want to bond Pikus and Tofi is to get Tofi spayed. Trying to bond them if she hasn’t been spayed is asking for big trouble, up to and including brutal fights that could badly hurt one or both bunnies and could also possibly ruin any prospect of their ever being bonded.

          Moreover, once Tofi is spayed, you need to wait a month after the operation for her residual hormones to go away before you can start bonding the pair.


        • Deleted User
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          22064 posts Send Private Message

            I am pretty sure that chasing should not be allowed, as it makes the bun being chased fear the other bun.

            You would have to get Tofi spayed. And they need to be kept completely separated (with NO contact at all, not even a face to face introduction) until at least 2 weeks after her spay, I say 1 month though to be safe. Luckily you are bringing a girl home to a boy, and not the other way around. Females are generally more territorial, so it’s actually a good thing that he is already established and not her.


          • sarahthegemini
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              Posted By Koton on 8/16/2017 1:50 PM

              Hi guys, so a little story before I post my actual questions. Me and my ex originally got Koton, he was a rex mix bunny, lost him after getting him neutered. Literally 3 days after we got Pikus (pea-kush), he’s a lion head, already neutered. Last year in spring we adopted two lion head baby girls, Tofi and Mufi. Then my ex decided to ditch out on our happy little furry family and I had to give the girls back to the breeder but I kept Pikus because he’s potty trained and very easy maintenance. By now I’m sure you can tell that the girls were simply too much upkeep but they ended up in good hands. Nanette the breeder takes care of her bunnies like they’re her children so I knew they were going to be looked after.

              A year has passed and I’ve made a decision to get Tofi back. I love that bunny. She’s a real trouble maker and gets into everything and is super smart, that’s probably why I’ve been thinking about getting her back this whole time. The trouble is simple – Tofi wasn’t then and still isn’t potty trained. I’ve trained Pikus but he was already neutered. Neither of the girls were spayed at the time because they were still babies. Here’s my other concern…

              Since the year passed and it’s just been me and Pikus he literally has the whole apartment to himself. When I leave for work he’s usually in his cage, I can’t have him running around for his own safety because of wires and everything, but when I get home I’m with him. Usually after I hold him he’ll stay out for several hours, then run back in the cage to poop or pee and either run back out or stay in and relax. I know he’s territorial (as most bunnies are) which brings me to another problem – I don’t want him to think that he’s going to get any less love because that’s not the case. I also don’t want him to get jealous or feel threatened by Tofi in any way. I simply want him to have a companion throughout the day when I’m not there so he’s not completely alone plus I want Tofi back because I miss her a lot.

              She’s still not fixed and she had few babies since. We’ve tried bonding them before but neither of us really knew what we were doing and didn’t know that Pikus chasing Tofi is actually NOT a sign of aggression. Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

              You’ll need to spay Tofi, let her hormones disipate and then start pre bonding. Pre bond for a month and then start actual bonding sessions. 


            • Mikey
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                Aside from echoing that BOTH need to be spayed, I have to add that yes, chasing is a sign of aggression. All chasing needs to be stopped immediately.


              • Koton
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                  Shit guys, maybe I should rethink this thing. I remember when me and my ex tried bonding them, pikus would go nose to nose with Tofi and Mufi then about one or two seconds he’d take off after her. Why do they do that?


                • Deleted User
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                    They are trying to get a feel for each other. They may bop noses then suddenly realize they don’t want to be that close. At least that is my understanding of why they would approach, touch noses, then scatter.

                    Bonding is a very stressful experience… I haven’t personally gone through it, but just taking some time reading through the bonding threads or watching videos gives you a good scare… If you really love this bun you may be able to give it a try. Is there anyone you have to help you? In the case of fighting I think it’s best to have two people around so you can quickly separate the buns and diffuse the situation


                  • Koton
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                      No there isn’t unfortunately. It’s just me and Pikus. I would separate them, scruff both and separate, but don’t want to go down that route. This does sound scary from what you guys are telling me. Maybe I should just keep it to me and pikus. He is happy I simply don’t want him to be alone. And yes I love Tofi but definitely wouldn’t neither one to get hurt. Not my intentions. Just the opposite. Hmm, thinking ?


                    • Deleted User
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                        He may be happy as a singleton Bun’s safety & wellbeing should always be the primary concern


                      • Koton
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                          Posted By BunNoob<3 on 8/17/2017 11:04 AM
                          He may be happy as a singleton Bun’s safety & wellbeing should always be the primary concern

                          I hear ya, and it always is. Pikus is spoiled as hell lol but you guys bring out good points about getting Tofi spayed first. Maybe I should hold off on it for a while.


                        • joea64
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                          1423 posts Send Private Message

                            Is there a rabbit rescue or similar organization (animal welfare, etc.) in your area? Most rabbit rescues have at least one person who is knowledgeable about bunny bonding and they can be a great deal of help to you. Many rabbit rescues will perform the (often lengthy and frustrating) process of bonding for you, either for free or for a modest fee.

                            If it’s been a long time since the last time that you attempted to bond Pikus and Tofi, they may have forgotten one another so that you could try what’s known as “pre-bonding”, which is basically exposing one rabbit to the other’s cage, toys, etc. and getting them accustomed to their scent, while preventing them from having any actual physical contact with one another. Again, you need to have Tofi spayed first of all, and then wait a month or so for her remaining hormones to dissipate (again, while preventing any physical contact between the two buns; only then can you begin to think about bonding. You’d have to start with very brief sessions in a neutral area, being ready to intervene immediately if they begin to express aggression toward one another, and then work your way up little by little as they become more familiar and relaxed with one another, and be prepared for setbacks and relapses along the way.

                            As I said, bonding can be a complicated, time-consuming, often frustrating process, as the experiences of others that you can read here make crystal clear, so I would really look for someone in my area who is experienced in the task and can assist you.


                          • Koton
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                              Thanks Joe, I can tell you guys one thing, I remember when the girls cage used to be next to pikus, when they were out on a tarp he’d be licking the cage door to get out. When he was out he would drop an entire pyramid of poops (not even kidding lol) right in front of their cage. Every single time he was out. Every time. Miraculously, the moment the girls were gone from the apartment his habit of popping outside his litter box sent away instantly.


                            • joea64
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                                That definitely sounds like a territory-marking thing! Not necessarily hostile, but Pikus was certainly letting the girls know where his turf was. The pyramid thing is a new one on me, though…


                              • Koton
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                                  Yeah sometimes it was just a handful pile, few times it literally formed a pyramid. I was like wow dude, how, lol

                                  The moment I have them back he immediately stopped.

                                  From the sound of things it sounds like it’s gonna be a process to bring her in. I don’t think I have enough room in my apartment to keep them completely isolated. I could keep Tofi in the bedroom and keep pikus in a living room but I know he would sense her there.

                                  I usually move his cage into the bedroom on Friday nights so we both go to sleep and so that he’s not alone, I also have him there with me on Saturday night, Sunday he gets transferred back into living room as he feels safer there cause that’s what he’s used to. So no “neutral” spot where he hasn’t been already unless I lay out a towel in a bathroom cause he hasn’t been there yet. Shit. Sigh, oh well.

                                  I got a picture from Nanette yesterday of how Tofi looks now and I’m like omg she changed, she looked so sad, eyes got a red lining around. It’s like she went from happy happy tofi to miserable depressed tofi. It’s like she was trying to tell me “I used to be happy when I had my family”. It broke my heart, again.


                                • joea64
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                                    The poor thing.  If you can work out how to get the neutral space you’ll need to do the bonding, or find somebody who can help you with it and provide said space, I think you should make the attempt. She might actually still remember you. Have you visited her yet?


                                  • Koton
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                                      I was going to go visit them this Saturday but Nanette is gonna be out of state in Kentucky so we agreed on the following weekend. The issue is that they’re 3 hour south of me down in central Illinois but I was willing to make the drive down there to visit mufi and tofi. With slight intentions of bringing her back home with me. Now I’m skeptical about that happening.

                                      The only place I can think of is my parents yard, I would bring my fence things around so they wouldn’t run off somewhere and would be in there with them. Two problems with that – 1 my parents got a dog, 2 pikus is a very skittish type, he’s never been outside.

                                      He’s a typical house bunny. He just knows the living room, bedroom, and sitting in front of tv watching a movie or watching me play on xbox, or watching me play piano in the bedroom. He never felt grass under his paws. I was seriously thinking about taking him outside but knowing him he’d have a major freakout.

                                      We all know bunnies like routine, and pikus has his. Sigh ?


                                    • joea64
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                                        Outdoors is too risky anyway to carry out such a complex operation as bonding. It’s probably very hot in Illinois like everywhere else in the US, and temps like that are just no good for bunnies. Not to mention the risk of predator attack (or even being literally scared to death by the presence of a nearby predator), the risk of flystrike, etc. NOT a good environment to attempt bonding in.

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                                    Forum BEHAVIOR Spayed with neutered bonding