When to throw in a towel?

[Quartz]

Is this a hopeless case at this point, or should I keep trying for a while yet?

I have a male bun I brought from a shelter two months ago (neutered, 1 year old now) which I’ve been trying to introduce to my neutered 3-year old male bun.  Dates at the shelter have shown this bun to be one of the most promising (even though I do know about male-female being the easiest usually).  Unfortunately after bringing the new bun home, my “old” one just does not accept him.  We’ve tried a few car rides for stress bonding, and each time the two behave perfectly while in the car, basically snuggled next to each other, but as soon as we bring them back home, the original bun touches noses with new bun and starts loud grunting/lunging and trying to bite.  The new bun doesn’t generally initiate the aggressive behavior but does eventually start retaliating, so I’ve been bitten by both buns (not deeply) when trying to keep them separate during bonding attempts.  Also done a bunch of kitchen floor bonding attempts, each of which is promising UNTIL the two come face to face with each other, then the predictable grunt and lounge happens.  

I’ve been also trying the gradual approach where the two of them have their pens and litter trays side-by-side, separated by transparent acrylic, so they are very used to seeing each other closely–with a barrier.  Two months of this arrangement now.  Basically both are now fine like this, but not when they have free access to each other.

Is there some possible turning point still if I keep trying more stress introductions?  Or is this a pretty good indication of incompatibility?  Clearly whatever I’ve been doing so far has not been working.  My only hope now is to try to bond them in a place neither of them is comfortable with at all, as the old bun is extremely comfortable at home, whereas the new bun doesn’t get to come out as much and is not used to freely roaming our home.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Are your bonding sessions in 100% neutral territory?

[Quartz]

Not 100% neutral, unfortunately, as there’s no such place in my apartment.  The kitchen is the closest to neutral territory I have, since my original bun almost never goes there (his own choice).  I should probably find some place outside my apartment, shouldn’t I…  Clearly at-home meetings are not going well.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Do you have a friend or family’s house you could go to do some bonding sessions? It really needs to be neutral. What about a bath tub? That’s a common place as most bunnies don’t go in there.

[Quartz]

The bathtub unfortunately did not work as intended. I did try it, and it is neutral ground for both buns, but unfortunately there was fighting there almost right away (it was the first time I had tried to introduce the two after I brought the new bun home). Back at the shelter during 3 dates, it went very well between the two of them, but not since I brought the new bun home.  I’ll think of some place outside of our apartment.

[DanaNM]

Hmmm, yeah the car ride sounds promising…. so I wouldn’t give up just yet. Did you do pre-bonding? I agree that it sounds like you just need a better space. Could you try parking your car in the shade and doing sessions there without driving around? 

Be very certain they cannot access each other when you are not doing a bonding session (such as through fence bars), as bad feelings can build up. 

A friend’s house could also work. The shelter may also let you bring them both back to do some dates there. I did this for the first several dates with my two, as I have a tiny apartment with very little neutral space. 

You could also try to “disguise” an area in your home by laying down a blanket or tarp they have never seen, with a pen around it, with the view blocked by more blankets, so they don’t know where they are. You can pop them in their carriers or a box and carry them around outside before putting them in the pen. 

Some people also have success with a laundry basket on top of the washing machine while it’s running.  

I would keep up the car rides if that is working, and then try to think along those same lines. It kind of sounds like you are just moving a little fast. My first pair took three months to bond, and it didn’t go in slow steady increments. it felt like nothing what happening, and then we would make a big jump forward. Then nothing. Then big jump. 

Also, not sure how you are doing your car rides, but if they fight as soon as you bring them in the house, be sure to separate them before bringing them in, so you end the date on a good note. 

The progression that usually works (in cases where stressing is helpful):

-start in very neutral, stressful space (so, the car ride, in this case).

-then start a date in a stressful space, and move them to an equally neutral, but less stressful space. 

-then start the date in the neutral space, and move them to a stressful, less neutral space (so maybe the bathroom, with you vacuuming around them)

-then start a date in a stressful semi-neutral space, and reduce the stress in that same space.

– etc. 

Work up to longer and longer sessions for each step. And before you progress, you want to see lots of positive behaviors (snuggling and grooming) and no fighting. Everytime you move to a less-neutral space, you might take a step backward, so you may need to make sessions shorter so that you can always end on a good note. It’s very important to end the date before they start fighting, as this is all really about building trust.  

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

Also, I didn’t think of this in my last post, but if either bun has broken skin (aside from yours) in the fighting that occurred, you should take a break and let them cool off for a while. 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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