Pregnancy/Injured leg

[Gracie]

My female rabbit is nesting running around with straw in her mouth and ripping up and using everything she can to make a nest – she has been separated from the boy since 15 weeks – so hoping its a phantom pregnancy. I only mention this because today when she was outside in her run I noticed she started holding her back right leg up and not putting any weight on it. I took her to the vet straight away and the vet first said she’d injured her back and had inflammation but we couldn’t give her and painkiller injection because she could be pregnant… she then said we should give her an xray – if she’ll sit still but if not have to put her out – I asked if that was possible considering she could be pregnant, didn’t get much of an answer – whilst hopping around the vets floor she seemed to get a little better but then she started holding up her other back leg. I asked the vet what she’d do – she gave me no suggestions really so I said i’d see how she goes. Wasn’t very impressed with the vets to be honest – does anyone know of any good vets near the London area? Lots of them don’t seem very good with rabbits.

Also is it possible she’s just pulled a muscle or something? I mean the vet jumped straight to surgery and the fact it doesn’t have a good prognosis I’d hate for her to be in pain so if anyone has any suggestions or advice of a rabbit holding up a back paw then switching and holding up the other one it’d be much appreciated. Thanks

 

[Muchelle]

Sadly can’t answer about the London vets, but in case no one is able to respond you could contact a local bunny rescue center or directly the animal protection services for insight about vets they trust. About the supposed back injury what did the vet say? Did they think it’s a bone or a tissue issue? (sorry for bad wording lol)
The fact that she’s having troubles with both legs (if I didn’t read uncorrectly) does seem suspicious, so while you search for a new vet I’d keep an eye on her eating/drinking and on how she moves around, especially if she pees herself cause that might cause urine burn troubles. Keep us updated! Good luck with the search!

[tobyluv]

Here is a link to find rabbit savvy vets in the UK. There are several pages of vets listed, but if you put in your address and the distance you are okay with, it should narrow down the selections a lot.

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-care-advice/rabbit-friendly-vets/rabbit-friendly-vet-list/

[Gracie]

Hi thanks for the replies.

I took her to a different vet today and they weren’t sure either but gave her an injection of anti inflammatories and have given me some to give her for the next 5 days. I mentioned to the vet that she keeps switching legs and the vet just said it’s weird – since coming home she has switched to the other back leg again, and the injection doesn’t seem to have changed her mood she’s not herself at all – very quiet and hiding in her bed and barely moves and when she does moves slowly holding one leg up

She seems to be making it away from her bed to pee but if she doesn’t what should I do to stop urine burn?

I had a look on that website last night and theres no vet on that list anywhere near me. I wouldn’t mind traveling to get her seen somewhere good but i feel like it would stress her out more being in a car for over 2 hours

Really appreciate your responses – I’ve only had these two like a month? and there seems to be so many problems already Just want them to be okay.

[Muchelle]

Keep going with the meds, if it’s an inflamation it will ease out in a few doses. Did you get them from a breeder or from a shop? If you got them from a breeder you could call them and ask if they had similar symptoms in other buns, it would help shed light on her problem. Is the other bun fine so far?
Is the girl peeing and pooping fine (no leaks of urine or difficulty in pushing out the pee/poo)?

If she’s in pain/discomfort it’s normal that she might be fussy about eating/drinking, in case that happens don’t panic and tempt her with a bit good herbs like parsley, basil, mint, dandelion mixed in her normal hay or with vegetables she likes. If she slows down her eating I’d also avoid sugars (carrot/pumpkin/fruit) unless it’s necessary, just to be sure she won’t get an upset tummy.

About urine, check her butt and inner thighs to make sure she’s not wet. If she is, try to rinse her with a cloth wetted in lukewarm water and dry her so that the chemicals in her urine won’t scald her skin. In case she wets herself often, you can ask any vet to give her a “sanitary shave” (shaving of her butt) to prevent the urine from sticking to the fur and to ease the cleaning process.

But! Since she’s still doing overall fine except for her mobility don’t stress too much as yet. While you look for a better vet (or agree to have your vet do an x-ray, which could help see if she’s got anything bad in there) keep observing her (make notes if necessary to show later to the vet) and let’s hope the medicines will kick in soon

[jerseygirl]

It does seem so odd. Is she still nesting?

Here’s another vet list. This has been compiled by rabbit owners recommendations.
http://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/vetfinder/list-of-vets-and-practices-that-have-been-recommended-by-rabbit-owners/copy_of_county-or-city/england/london

Scroll down for London.

[Gracie]

I got them from a breeder who seems to just breed Rex bunnies and mini ones. I might give him a call and ask. The other one is completely fine he’s his normal self. She seems okay, not wet but she’s popped a lot since the injection not in her bed though where she’s spent most of her time. I think if it doesn’t clear up in the 5 days like the vet said I’ll definitely have the xray done.

She was still nesting up until she started holding her legs up – running around like mad getting straw and ripping stuff up and making a nest – she tried grooming, eating and drinking with the straw in her mouth… Today though she’s just been in her box (I made a quick box out of wood and filled it with stuff in the hopes she’d calm down about the nest) I’ll have a look at that link thanks hope there’s someone nearish

[Muchelle]

I am having a sudden thought… how is her belly? is it soft? I’m wondering if she might be indeed pregnant and have an ectopic pregnancy or something similar that might be causing pain to her back and rear end…
I don’t know if it’s possible (I do know it applies to humans and other mammals), does anyone know anything about this?

[Gracie]

Her belly felt soft earlier when I was at the vets I don’t want to disturb her too much she’s looking very sorry for herself but her stomach was soft and normal earlier… I really hope it isn’t that but it is curious why it’s one leg then the other makes the most sense of everything so far how could I get that checked? Would the xray show it up? I guess only if they have developed skeletons it would.. Appreciate you thinking about this I’m really at a loss of what to do other than keep on with the pain killers but they don’t seem to be having any affect

[Gracie]

Only thing I can think to do in that situation is get her spayed quickly… but if it isn’t that she’s not in the best state it would be maybe too much for her currently – Although if it is that and I do nothing, she’ll likely die. Wish animals could speak sometimes ha.

[Muchelle]

Eh, buns are just the kind of animal that will never let you know what’s wrong… bad brain wiring for house buns!
The best would be an ultrasound, but it requires a belly shave, sedation and a bill higher than of a simple x-ray, so… I’d still go for the x-ray. A good vet can take a decent x-ray of a bun without sedation, given that the bun hasn’t decided to fight them.

[Gracie]

She’s stopped moving both her back legs can’t move looks terrified rushed her to the vet he’s got no idea going to keep her overnight I’m worried sick

[Mikey]

Has any of the vets done an MRI or xray yet? An xray will tell you if something is wrong with her leg and spine bones. An MRI will tell you if something is wrong with her brain. I also see no mention of blood work; has any of the vets done a fully blood work test on her yet? Have any of them done an ultrasound to even see if she is pregnant? Ultrasounds do not require a shave; my bunny had a few done and was never shaved or trimmed for them.

(((((VIBES)))))

Parasites can cause lack of muscle control as well as paralysis. There is also a thing called ‘sudden hind leg paralysis’ which can occur, rarely, in rabbits (and mice, rats, cats, dogs, ect)

[Gracie]

Hi none of what you’ve said has been done – the vet said they’d monitor overnight and possibly do an xray in the morning and do bloods -i dont know if MRI is even a thing they can do there and no ultrasound either they just said see if she has a litter

The vets currently giving her antibiotics incase it’s a bacterial infection. To be honest the vet said he’d never seen anything like it.

[Mikey]

I would call and press getting a full blood work test done, if possible. If you can afford it, also press for an ultrasound and/or an xray. Are you 100percent sure this vet has worked on rabbits before? (((((more VIBES)))))

[LBJ10]

Hind limb paralysis is not a good sign. I would be concerned about EC. If that is what it is, then you’ll need to treat her with Panacur. An X-ray would show whether she is pregnant or not, but if she’s that bad then I don’t know if she can wait for treatment. Panacur is supposedly safe for pregnant cats and dogs, but I don’t think there is any information for rabbits. Many vets will just treat for EC if it is suspected because the test for it is notorious for false negative results. Panacur is pretty safe and well tolerated, so if you treat them and it isn’t EC then it isn’t the end of the world. No harm done. Anyway, that is just my thoughts on this after reading through this entire thread. I’m not a vet, but we do see this a lot on the forum.

[Gracie]

Hi thanks for your replies I’ve rung and insisted they do blood, and xray but they said they’d have to put her out for xray so they are going to do bloods first then see if xray is necessary, they said she’s moving around a little more than last night but still not good on her legs but eating and drinking okay. Regards to rabbit care I mean they see rabbits there how good they are is questionable in my eyes they seem the best of a really bad situation and it was out of hours and they run 24/h 7 days a week. I was so worried that I wasn’t sure what else to do. When the vet calls I’ll say about EC see what they say

[jerseygirl]

Her being in care at the moment is the best thing. I hope you get some answers. Sending some {{{vibes}}} for her.

In a previous thread, I see you had concerns of a UTI for her. So, it is good they have her on anti-inflammatories and an antibiotic. Even with false pregnancies, there is potential for infections or complications. There may be some sort of uterine infection going on, urinary infection, or both.

[Gracie]

Could a UTI cause this? I mean I took her urine sample maybe over a week ago now and they said there was no blood or infection shown. She’s only 17 weeks old and it’s not looking great :/ concerned also about my other one if it’s a bacterial infection, he’s in a separate cage but right next to hers

[Mikey]

Agreed, her being in care of a vet who has atleast been trained is much better than being without a vet at all. The best of a bad situation is a good way to put it.

UTI likely would not cause her legs to give out like that, unless it was causing her extreme pain. The anti inflammatory should have helped with that, I would think. I too am thinking its EC or another parasite.

[Gracie]

Spoke to them again mentioned EC they said it’s unlikely because no head tilt but the vets been doing some research into things and is going to call me in an hour or so they said they’d give her a worming tablet anyway which would apparently deal with it if it’s EC not sure about that but I’ve only got Google to go by

[Mikey]

EC isnt a guaranteed head tilt. As far as I am aware, the only(best?) med that kills EC is panacur. I would try to nudge the vet treat her with it if they have it, next time he calls if she is not doing better.

[Gracie]

I said that to them they still said about the head tilt but said they could give her the worming thing anyway having a look online it’s possible they gave her panacur because that’s just a worming paste but I’ll verify that with the vet and if not make sure they do give her it. They’ve taken bloods just waiting on results currently

[Vienna Blue in France]

I would def speak to “breeder” and let him know, ask him nicely if he has ever heard of this or has any advice….
if he’s a good breeder he’ll want to know and be very interested in the outcome.
Of course you may just get a shrug of the shoulders and “what dya want me to do about it?”
There are more than plenty vets in and around the london area.
Phone local RSPCA (or rabbit rescue, loads in London) and get a rabbit savvy vets number if you feel that would help.

[Vienna Blue in France]

(Isn’t there a “pregnancy pee test” like human beings to see if preggers or not??)

[Gracie]

I tried to contact the breeder no response yet good suggestions about rspca etc will defiantly give that a try.

Vet did the bloods, xray and started the panacur – Bloods look fine – xray looks fine – they still have no idea what it is, but they’re thinking it might be EC – but the vet apparently said because she is slightly brighter, eating and drinking, and moving a tiny amount they’re happy for her to come home – so picking her up shortly. Apparently she’s on antibiotics painkillers and laxative and the panacur stuff. I mentioned about my other bunny and the nurse said she’d mention to the vet and i’ll get a course of panacur for him also. I really hope this gets better but feeling pretty bleak about it at the moment

Everyone who said suggested everything and anything thank you so much – I mean they had completely discounted EC until you all mentioned it and I then insisted they start the treatment regardless. I’m so grateful I found this forum <3

[Mikey]

Yay for the vet getting tests done! When she gets home, it might be worth it to start a journal for her. Write down when you see any differences. Like if she can move her left leg a little, write down the date, time, and a one sentence description of the movement change. Of course, if it gets worse, write that down too. If you see any other changes, write it down. I like to keep health journals like this as it might help you and the vet get more information on whats going on with your bun.

Curious though, why is she on a laxative? Diarrhea is very hard on a bun and can kill them within days if they are not taking in enough fluids. It can also cause scalding/burns and inflammation around their parts causing pain…

[Gracie]

Just got her home was in the vets for 2 hours most of the time was spoke the the head vet he was very candid about it all and said that the blood tests they can do there wouldn’t show anything of use so he took it off my bill because he said it was a pointless test.. The nurses also lied she isn’t any better she still can’t move he said to bring her home give her all the stuff there’s like 4 things ones the panacur stuff then see how she goes I think realistically if there’s no improvement in a few days or she gets any worse ima have her put down because I couldnt keep her going where she can’t move, wouldn’t be fair on her. I’m not giving up on her I’ll do everything I can but I just don’t think it realistically looks good

[Gracie]

Also the vet said she has feeling in her legs – it’s almost like she just doesn’t want to use the back two they aren’t floppy at all and when she’s sitting up she looks completely fine like looks really healthy and happy and if you put something in front of her she’ll take it off you, she even started chewing the box of the panacur and a syringe packet which were on the table with her – when I put her in her cage she was like oo I’m home then really went to move to go to her bed then freaked out and got scared when her legs didn’t follow her I’ve placed her in her bed and she has been eating loads of timothy hay I’ll see if she wants any water in a bit I guess.

[Vienna Blue in France]

Gracie, please dont give up on your lovely bun yet. Meds can do wonders and until you or the vets can pin the illness down, dont give up.
You’ve done so much already.
If bun is eating hay happily then thats a great sign there thats shes not too bad !

My bun had a poorly foot a few months after I got her, thought she’d broken it or something, temperature was sky high. Antibiotics and rest made it all better, she must have just sprained it. Phew. These things take time.

I would give all my animals the same chance be they rabbit or dog…. and i certainly wouldnt think of putting my dog down if her leg was playing up… just a thought.
((( Bunny, get better soon )))

[Mikey]

Some meds can take up to two weeks to show great improvement, so try to go a month with trial if you can. I would start a journal asap, and when you do, also note when she takes what meds. The journal then will not only tell you when she cant move and when she is scared, but also which medicines seem to help and which ones seem to do nothing, or even make the situation worse.

Alternately, how about a bunny wheelchair? Shes otherwise normal and happy, and only seems to get nervous when her legs dont move right. Consider a wheelchair and possible physical therapy. You would need to consult a certified vet who is very good with rabbits before trying any psychical therapy, though. You can start her on a wheelchair without physical therapy, anyway. Making your own wheelchair for her would be pretty easy depending on her temperament, and depending on her size, might be pretty cheap. I recommend this, because shes otherwise happy and healthy; theres no reason to put down a happy and healthy animal.

[Gracie]

Maybe it’s just because i’m super negative haha but to be clear not giving up on her at all – I’ve been hand feeding and holding a water bowl for her for hours and cleaning her underneath (which is tricky) and will be doing this all night to make sure she is okay. It’s just she cant move like at all, she’s going to the bathroom constantly it’s all in her fur i’m trying to clean it off the best I can but i’m concerned about flies. I’d hate to not give her a shot she’s so feisty and amazing but at the same time I feel it would be incredibly cruel to keep an animal alive that couldn’t function on it’s own – I’m not sure about the wheelchair not sure we’re there yet – if she was to recover but just have the issues with her back legs then i’d absolutely explore that option. But at the moment the vet said to just try her for a few days but said ultimately if no improvement there’s not much that can be done

[Muchelle]

Sorry, I couldn’t access the forum D:

@Mikey: about shaving and ultrasound I guess it depends what’s to be done… K had 2 separate ones for his furball issue and got shaved twice

@Gracie: keep going, it’s though but I’m sure the little girl will do anything she can to push through this hard time. I know what it feels like sadly and for us it’s as big as a stress as it is for them. Did the vet comment on her connective bone tissue (I’m thinking about a congenital form of rheumatoid arthritis)? Any news about the pregnancy?

[Gracie]

No news about the pregnancy I had a look at the xrays couldn’t see anything, thats kinda fallen behind, I mean the vet knows but the legs became way more important. i’ve just given her all her medication she wasn’t very impressed. I’m staying at home for the next few days to continually take care of her and i’ll see how it goes – just kinda hoping some miracle will happen and she’ll start to move a bit on her own

[Gracie]

Sorry I didn’t answer about the tissue the vet just said that bones looks good in the xray but can’t tell much else from it so not too sure about the arthritis. The vet said he’s treating all treatable things so basically if there’s no improvement from any of the stuff I’m giving her then he can’t think what else can be done. I mean he said we can do an mri but he said anything we find on it won’t be treatable? So it’s basically pointless :/ Idk I’m sure there’ll be lots of different views on that I’m just gunna see how she goes

[Vienna Blue in France]

It seems very strange, poor little love.
It’s great that you can spend all that time with her.
How sad for a 4 month (?) old bunny

[Gracie]

I know none of the vets can work it out, there’s theories about blood clots and inflammation of the brain but no definitives vets say they’ve never seen anything like it and yea she’s 17 weeks now same as her brother who seems completely fine

[LBJ10]

I agree with everyone else, it can take awhile for the meds to work. I understand that you don’t want her to suffer, but definitely keep the timeline for seeing improvement in mind. With symptoms this severe, if it is EC, it might take a couple of weeks before you see anything significant. It’s common to treat for 28 days, but improvement should be obvious before that (just not right away). I’m actually a little surprised that your vet didn’t suspect EC. Not all EC cases are “typical” where the rabbit has head tilt. In fact, “atypical” cases are much more common in young rabbits. They will seem fine and then suddenly have an eye uveitis, seizures, incontinence, or hind limb weakness/paralysis… no head tilt. So I’m glad your vet decided to go ahead and treat. Without knowing 100%, it’s generally the best way to go. I hope she improves with the medication. I’m sure she doesn’t understand why her legs aren’t working. Hopefully she’ll start accepting the meds more.

As for her brother, he likely has it as well (if it is EC) but most rabbits do. The difference is that only a few ever show symptoms. It’s OK to treat him though, just in case.

[LittlePuffyTail]

I don’t have anything new to add, but just reading up on this situation and want to offer some (((((Get Well)))) wishes. Poor little girl. Really hoping everything works out for you both.

[Gracie]

Thanks all really appreciate all your guys help <3 Ive read a lot of stuff about EC and about all kinds of terrible things which the rabbit actually recovered from I'm just really concerned about the fact that she can't move because well not to he gross but she's peeing and pooing all over herself and I'm just really worried about what that's doing to her skin/fur it must be so horrible for her she was so clean before I’m cleaning her up every hour and will continue to do so couldn’t possibly leave her in that state.

The only symptom from EC she has is that she can’t move her legs… Well we aren’t sure if it’s can’t or won’t… I mean she sometimes kicks them a little when I’m cleaning her up. When she’s sitting down they’re in the normal position although the feet are pointed up so her ‘heel’ is on the floor and her nails are diagonally up towards her front legs.. That probably makes no sense.. Anyway she’s eating tones of hay and pellets and when I offer her a drink every 30 minutes she seems really thirsty, she drinks way more with me holding the bowl than I’ve ever seen her drink normally before when she’d hop over to her water bowl (before all this happened)

[Muchelle]

I might have missed this if you wrote it but… did they test her blood for EC? (also, if EC is the main suspect, get the other bun tested as well so that you can do preventive panacur on him)

[vanessa]

I’m sorry this is so stressfull for you. Not all cases of ec present the same symptoms, in the same order. My 2 ec bunnies started with hind leg press, incontinence, then complete paralysis. Do stay the course with panache. You need to wait 28 days before analyzing improvement. I had my first evbunny put down because I caught it too late. Lancelot is my second ec bunny, but he is also old and arthritic. You need to focus on keeping your bunny clean, dry, and comfortable. Keep food and water close by.

[Gracie]

Testing the blood for EC is tricky I think most pet rabbits have it only affects some, I could be wrong but everything I’ve read indicates that it’s almost like a class of children a percentage have the cold, the rest of the class is exposed to the cold but only some of them actually get sick. And apparently the slightly more reliable test is take blood check level then take more blood in 2 weeks time and check level had it spiked? Its still not conclusive though apparently so you might aswell treat for it anyway if it’s suspected.

@vanessa did you see any improvement though before the 28 day mark? If there’s slow improvements gradually that’d be fine but at the moment I’m not sure how I can possibly keep her dry and clean for that length of time any tips would be great. I just checked on her after just under an hour and she was soaked and sitting in a pile of poo she looks so helpless

[Mikey]

The thing with a home made wheelchair is that it will keep her from getting soaked in her urine and will stop her fur from being matted in her poo.

Also, why is she on laxatives? That can really harm and possibly kill a rabbit…

[Gracie]

Yea I’m just concerned that we don’t currently know why the legs aren’t moving I mean she definitely has feeling in them. I had a look at wheelchairs online lots of people who have them for their rabbits say you need to ease them in and only for a few minutes a day and build up I just don’t think she’s ready for that if I’m honest and I’d hate to put her in a weird position and potentially hurt her more when I say laxatives it’s to increase motility it’s to speed up exit so it I mean laxatives work in different ways some draw water into the gut to flush stuff out and some speed up transit(for humans there’s a few different types) , it’s to stop her bloating because apparently if that happens vet said it’s pretty much death

[vanessa]

My 2 both got worse at first. I honestly only saw improvement after 28 days, not before. By then, you can start to get an idea of how bad the damage is. U r right about the blood tests. Lancelot has never regained his continence. Now that his arthritis is kicking in, he is in a diaper. I have been working at keeping him clean and dry for 12 months now. Sitting in poop/pee is a problem. Fleece allows per to flow thru. A thick bed of hay could work to keep both pee and poop from his skin. I don’t use hay with Lancelot coz it gets wrapped around his legs and he can’t untangle himself. He was getting butt baths daily, now its weekly. What is your bunnies cage/living area setup?

[Gracie]

That’s really useful to know thank you. She’s currently in a cage(plastic base) as I was waiting to get her and the boy fixed then they could go back together in the bigger enclosure. She’s got her normal cage setup which is her litter tray with wood pellets some space and a large straw and hay bed. I made the bed particularly big in every way so I’m able to remove dirty hay and you don’t really notice so she’s comfortable. She also has Timothy hay on top of the regular stuff which she’s been nibbling on all night

[Sirius&Luna]

I haven’t read through the whole post, so not sure if you’ve found a good rabbit vet yet – but I go to the Beaumont Sainsbury Animal Hospital in Camden. It’s part of the Royal Veterinary College and they are absolutely amazing and have a whole team of rabbit specialists. They have special small animal waiting area and check in areas, and are very knowledgeable.

[jerseygirl]

I second that recommendation. It is on the list posted earlier. Dr Joanna Hedley and Dr Nadene Stapleton.
Do you see either of those. Sirius&Luna? Or another rabbit savvy vet there?

Gracie, perhaps that hospital could review the case?

Posted by Gracie
Testing the blood for EC is tricky I think most pet rabbits have it only affects some, I could be wrong but everything I’ve read indicates that it’s almost like a class of children a percentage have the cold, the rest of the class is exposed to the cold but only some of them actually get sick. And apparently the slightly more reliable test is take blood check level then take more blood in 2 weeks time and check level had it spiked? Its still not conclusive though apparently so you might aswell treat for it anyway if it’s suspected.

That’s right. It can be unreliable. It is probably why the head vet didn’t bill you for it. EC is one of those conditions vets often will just treat for based on symptoms they see, rather then getting a definitive diagnosis.

For keeping her clean, consider getting a sanitary shave done. The fur getting soiled just hold moisture against the skin and it starts to affect it. Having the area shaved stops that from happening.

I wonder, given her age, whether some nutritional deficiency could be a cause too. Im not sure if it would come up in a regular blood test. Being deficient in potassium can cause some hind end paresis. Also deficiency in vitamin E.

You can get potassium back up quickly by giving some tomato juice to young rabbits. Banana and dark leafy greens are will give potassium also. Vitamin E you would probably need to use contents of a capsule. Although, almonds, wheat germ and sunflower seeds are good sources of vitamin E.

[jerseygirl]

Posted By Gracie on 6/29/2017 6:16 PM

Thanks all really appreciate all your guys help <3 Ive read a lot of stuff about EC and about all kinds of terrible things which the rabbit actually recovered from I'm just really concerned about the fact that she can't move because well not to he gross but she's peeing and pooing all over herself and I'm just really worried about what that's doing to her skin/fur it must be so horrible for her she was so clean before I’m cleaning her up every hour and will continue to do so couldn’t possibly leave her in that state.

The only symptom from EC she has is that she can’t move her legs… Well we aren’t sure if it’s can’t or won’t… I mean she sometimes kicks them a little when I’m cleaning her up. When she’s sitting down they’re in the normal position although the feet are pointed up so her ‘heel’ is on the floor and her nails are diagonally up towards her front legs.. That probably makes no sense.. Anyway she’s eating tones of hay and pellets and when I offer her a drink every 30 minutes she seems really thirsty, she drinks way more with me holding the bowl than I’ve ever seen her drink normally before when she’d hop over to her water bowl (before all this happened)

Does it look like she in pressing her butt down toward the floor? Are the toes of her hind feet digging up into her abdomen when she sits like this? 

[Sirius&Luna]

I saw Vicki Baldrey – she was fantastic, operated on Sirius at midnight when she decided it was essential, and kept us updated all the time. Sadly he didn’t make it, but I know that Vicki did absolutely everything she could, including round the clock nursing care, and letting us visit him in a calm bunny only boarding room multiple times. 

I’ve heard very good things about Nadene too, I don’t think i’ve seen Joanna, but the whole team is very specialized. They also will give advice over the phone, so might be worth at least calling and seeing if they have any suggestions if you can’t make it there.

[Gracie]

I’ll give them a call thank you for the suggestion Regarding deficiencies i’ll try anything i’m going to write down all that stuff and go to the supermarket in a bit. Can’t hurt to try them. They’re both fed Excel pellets, Timothy Hay, Oat hay, can’t remember all the different hays but theres a range oh and they have the normally bedding hay too which they eat sometimes. I also pick stuff in the garden for them. I’ve tried them on a few veggies, Not too much interest plus was taking it slow because I know how bunnies stomachs can be and they’re still young. Would this diet likely be lacking in things? Her nails aren’t dug into her stomach but if they went any further up they probably would end up digging in.

[Gracie]

http://imgur.com/a/XQEtr

This is her, taken a minute ago you can see in both pictures how she’s sitting and positions of her feet – not sure this helps but any insight is appreciated.

[Gracie]

The boy has started holding one leg up :/ well I know how this goes…

[Sirius&Luna]

Did you call the Beaumont? I really think its worth taking them there, even if it’s a bit of a drive. They normally can give you emergency appointments the same day (maybe not now that its late, but tomorrow for sure), and they honestly are bunny experts.

Her leg does look odd. I wonder if the boy is just copying her? Bunnies definitely learn tricks/mannerisms from each other… Or it could mean its something like EC that they both have.

[Sirius&Luna]

Oops double post

[Gracie]

No I haven’t yet and they aren’t near each other I doubt it’s copying unfortunately

[MK]

Perhaps she has an injured, but not broken, back? A bruised spine may not have shown up in an x-ray, and if there’s swollen tissue pressing on her spine it could cause her to not move her hind legs unless she has a strong impulse to kick them. Does she seem to be able to control her pooping/peeing on her own?

Best of luck!! I hope this situation is resolved soon!

[vanessa]

When they sit on their butts like that with feet too far forward, its classic pages is where her hind limbs are not strong enough to pull back. Lancelot sits like this. This is another way they get their butts wet. I check on Lancelot regularly to pick him up if he is lying down, and to hold his hips and move his hind legs back to a normal posture. Its tricky… This picture u posted is a good example of how they get their butts wet. But in a normal posture, if one side is weaker, they will slouch toward that side and per on the inside of that leg. When I pull Lancelot legs back to normal posture, I also position then a tiny tiny bit wider apart so he can balance better. The other problem with that posture is it places the weight squarely on the hocks. This will lead to sore hocks. Be sure to check her nails and keep them trimmed. Jersey is right about the fur… I cut Lancelot fur every time I bath him. He is quite used to me grooming him and I can get very close to his skin. If u r unsure, ask a vet to do the shave. There r more folds of skin than u might realise!

[Gracie]

Rang the Beaumont, they can’t give any advice, only thing is I could get referred to them but apparently that will take time that’s even if the vet agrees.

Yea the fact the boy is starting to hold his back leg up also though.. doesn’t look good for him now. I’ve given him Metacam and Baytril and he’s already had todays dose of panacur – but it’s the same pattern of deterioration as her currently.

I’m not sure if I’ll be able to do round the clock care for two rabbits who can’t move :'( I’ve literally not slept in 48 hours at this point. This is so horrendous I feel like I must’ve done something really really wrong for this to happen…

[MK]

You didn’t do anything wrong! You’re being a better, more patient bunny-caregiver than a lot of people would be at this point. Sometimes things just happen, and young rabbits are more susceptible to a variety of things. Do you have a family member/friend you can call who could come help you out or just to talk to? You should NOT be going through this alone.

I went through the same thing when my bunnies got sick (cancer), but it isn’t your fault, don’t blame yourself. You’re doing everything you can, and I know it doesn’t feel like it’s enough, but it is. 

[Gracie]

Yea it just feels like I must’ve messed something vital up :/ unfortunately even though my boyfriend lives here too he’s not particularly good with the rabbits not his fault he’s never really been exposed to animals before(kinda mad if you ask me haha) so I’ve been doing it on my own so far.

I’m in the process of moving also so currently the rabbits are at my parents where I’ve been staying I should really be in my flat packing up but obviously this came up. No one here is particularly aware let’s say… Of the treatment a pray animal requires…

I’m really sorry to hear about your bunnies <3 and thanks for saying that I just feel like it's got to be something it's so quick too. Before these two I had two mini lops a few years ago now they both lived til 10 and had really good lives I just wasn't expecting such heartbreaking things to happen so soon and also that if anything happens to a rabbit loads of vets just have no clue as my other two were basically fine their whole lives

[MK]

Wow, that’s a lot for one person to handle! It’s good you have family and your boyfriend there, even if they aren’t too aware of bunny care. I had a mini-lop too, she was only 5 when she passed away, I didn’t even know she was sick until a couple days before, and it all happened very fast. I felt super guilty when she was sick, I kept going over everything, and I felt like I missed something big too.

It’s hard when you’re responsible for a pet and they are unwell, you feel like you should be able to just fix them. But think how nice it is for your bunnies that someone is there caring for them when they aren’t feeling well! Making sure they get food and water and are comfortable. They’re very lucky rabbits to have you! Remember to take care of yourself, too. 

Too bad calling that vet clinic didn’t work out…have you tried the RSPCA?

[vanessa]

Trouble with wheelchairs is the front legs must b strong enough. Lancelot is not a candidate for a wheelchair. U can get panache it and treat the boy just in case… The treatment does work best with the addition of baytril/ enrofloxacin and metacam.its hit or miss with some vets and e.c. treatment. Iv had different responses from 3 different vets. By now, if it looks like e.c., I start panache while I wait for a vet appointment, I can get baytril, so all I need is to beg and plead for metacam… Google the list of symptoms. Its long and extensive. Some vets want a pos blood test b4 treating, and follow it up with a 2nd tiger count to “prove” it was or wasn’t after the treatment. But the only real proof is in a brain biopsy. Having a high tiger doesn’t prove that the e.c. is what caused the symptoms either. A bunny could have a high tiger and not get sick, while another with the same numbers does get sick. Its like treating an invisible disease because u can’t really prove it – hence the differences between vets. I am strongly for early and aggressive treatment, after seeing it in 2 of my buns. I do believe that one member here – I think it was jersey or azerane – off the top of my head. But one member had a bunny fully recover. Mine – not the case. Lancelot gets recurrences. And because of his arthritis it is hard to tell if his current immobility is due to e.c. damage or arthritis. E.c. causes cells to rupture in the central nervous system, and the body’s response is to wall off the damage with granulomae, and inflammation. That’s why metacam is advised. The inflammation contributed to the cellular damage.

[LBJ10]

It sounds like they are both on meds. I’m sorry your boy is now showing symptoms as well. Definitely keep it up. If it is EC, you should see improvement. For some, it is relatively soon. For others, like in Vanessa’s case, it can take longer. Every bunny is different, but we don’t want you to give up. Not yet, anyway. And please, don’t feel bad. EC happens and sometimes it happens quickly. There’s no way you could have known.

Hi MK! *waves*

[vanessa]

(((Vibes)))

[Gracie]

I’ve been checking on her all night every hour but there’s usually a small pile of poos under her but not anymore which isn’t good. She has started moving I mean not well… Or often but you find her in different parts of her cage. Just came out a minute ago and there was pee outside the cage quite a distance away – she’s been doing this thing where she moves forward on her two front legs lifts her entire back half and legs into the air and then she pees horizontally whilst moving away from it :/ doesn’t smell normal either could be all of the medication I guess. She has made small progress with moving her back legs a couple of times which she wasn’t doing before but it just seems like a miracle would have to happen now for her to get even a bit better

[MK]

I’m glad to hear she’s moving around a bit! Hopefully the other bun is doing OK as well. ((((Vibes))))

(Hi LBJ!!! *waving*)

[vanessa]

Sorry this is so stressful. 2 days of panache isn’t long enough to see improvement… Unfortunately u will need to wait some more…its good that she tries to move. Attitude and alertness are good signs.

[Gracie]

There’s poos! Never been so happy about that in my life.. Hahaha she’s very feisty she’s bit a hole in the panacur tube so it comes out the side quite away from Where’s in her mouth she also bit me first time ever.. Well there’s not a scratch on me it was more like a warning I guess? Teeth went round finger bit down slightly but not enough for a mark to be left. This was whilst the Emeprid was being given. Did yours get like freaked out when they needed to pee? And like quickly dart forward whilst peeing? That seems to be when she moves its like a panic to move and pee its weird. Does mean her bum is cleaner than ever tho so far.

[vanessa]

Good to hear. Mine didn’t know he needed to pee so it either leaked out or sprayed out wherever he was sitting. By now, he can feel enough to know it is coming, and lift his butt. But he never acted freaked out. Each bunny responds differently.

[Mikey]

Its good to hear that shes trying to move around more often. Since her front legs are strong (shes moving herself around and able to lift her back half!), I again want to bring up wheelchairs. It could help removing any back pain this is causing her as well. You dont need to use one through this process if you dont want to, but strongly consider it if she has permanent loss in her back legs after she is healed. And yes, medications can make pees and poos a little weird looking/smelling, so there isnt too much worry if there is a small change

[Gracie]

Yea unfortunately at current her front legs aren’t strong enough I don’t think She only manages to do that in a panic when she needs to pee, and sometimes afterwards falls down like her front legs slip away from her? it’s weird. I also think she’d be miserable in a wheelchair she’s so like bold and attacks everything even now haha. If she can slowly keep improving but never be able to hop again but could slowly get about to eat and drink and use the bathroom on her own that would be a miracle. And she could live on her own – I’m hoping for that currently. Even if it takes weeks to get there that’s fine but otherwise I feel it would be cruel and more for my benefit keeping her here I’m really worried about the boy, watching him like a hawk. I’ve just got this horrible feeling by tomorrow he’s going to be in the same state as her. I finally got through to the breeder, she sounded shocked and said they’ve never experienced anything like this in any of their lines so it really is odd She asked a load of questions too and said it sounded like i was doing everything right. So yea

[Mikey]

Her front paws could be slipping away because she cannot balance well. A wheelchair will give her balance, mobility, more freedom, and a clean bum.

[Gracie]

But are bunnies in wheelchairs happy? Is their quality of life good? I’m not against it but I’m very worried about putting her through something that wouldn’t be right. My main concern is her wellbeing and quality of life. I’d hate to keep her going and put her in something she hated or that hurt her and I’d never know.. And then not be able to give her the time and attention she’d require I mean I can’t always be at home with her I just don’t know if it would be fair do you have bunnies in wheelchairs? Does anyone have one? I mean if anyone’s got a bunny in a chair and they have any advice or suggestions I’m all ears.

[Mikey]

Of course! You wouldnt put a human down because their legs dont work. Instead, you give them a wheelchair. She would still be able to play, run, eat, sleep, ect all rather normally. There would be some adjustment needed with her cage/pen/free roam area to ensure that she cant get stuck or hurt. Typically, just making things where shes allowed to go wider/bigger and places shes not allowed to be smaller.

I have a bunny who is going to need a wheelchair when he gets older. He has splay leg, a muscle disorder (cant gain muscle easily, cant hold muscle), and a few other problems. Hes ok now, but as he gets older, using his legs correctly is noticibly harder for him. Like, last year he would fall once or twice a week from his legs not working right, and now, a year later, he is falling about once a day. He absolutely loves to run, but his leg problems make that hard on him. Right now, he doesnt need a wheelchair as he gets along alright, but in the next two or three years, hes going to need a wheelchair (one where his legs can reach the ground) do avoid him from getting hurt. Hes also prone to infections, so the wheelchair will also help him stay clean.

Consider googling disabled rabbits. Theres a website that documented their wheelchair bun’s improvement in life after being put in the wheelchair.

[Gracie]

But how long per day could she be in it? And also how would she sleep in it? like I won’t always be there to take her in and out of it I did Google that the first time you mentioned about it that’s when I found someone saying that he only put his bunny in for around 15 minutes a day I’ll do some more research

[Mikey]

http://www.disabledrabbits.com/

http://www.disabledrabbits.com/wheelchairs.html&nbsp;
http://rabbithaven.org/disabilities/

Google Bertha the disabled rabbit

For how long will depend on your rabbit and her comfort. Of course, talk to a trusted knowledgeable vet as well. My vet said as long as I bunnyproof Badger’s area extra, he would be able to stay in the wheelchair as long as one person is home and awake. When hes not in the wheelchair, he would need extra padding (puppy pads and fleece) around his pen and a soft bed for him to relax on.

[Gracie]

My vet said if she doesn’t recover tho she should be put down :/ also no one will be home unless it’s morning or evening I guess she’d get a couple of hours per evening? This is if she survives what she’s currently going through but then she’d be on Emeprid for the rest of her life? Because without movement she could get backed up?

[Mikey]

You should contact more vets, honestly. After this is all over of course. There is still a chance she will fully recover since she can still feel her legs I just ask you dont rule out the option, should it come to that. Theres no reason for her to be put down just because her legs dont work right; she can still have an awesome and fulfilling life.

Wheelchair or not, I have no idea if she will forever need gut moving medications. Thats something you would need to talk to a trusted vet about. My vet said it would not be a problem for my rabbit, even after he is wheelchair bound, but every rabbit is different.

[Gracie]

I’ve contacted quite a few they all just say what she’s on is all that can be done and time will tell – my only point with the medication to keep her gut moving would be if your bunny got a lot of the day in his chair he would be fine probably whereas if she only gets 3 hours every evening she’d probably need something to keep her moving Idk if it would be right – I’m just gunna see what happens 1 day at a time and hope for the best

[Mikey]

Instead of putting her down (should it come to that), it might be better to look for someone who has more time to care for her. Again, if its really only her legs and she makes a full recovery otherwise, theres no need to put her down because her legs dont work well. Putting her down should be the worst case scenario outcome. All other options should be exhausted first.

[Gracie]

I’m not going to put her down without cause – and it would be my last resort. I’m just not sure how I feel about it all if I’m honest I really appreciate your advice though.

[LBJ10]

Gracie – I agree with you about taking things one day at a time. No need to speculate about what ifs. You’ll know what is the right thing to do, when the time comes. Right now, just concentrate on treating them. If it is EC, then the treatment prescribed really is all that can be done.

[Gracie]

Yea that’s what I’m going to do very worried about him I was feeding him and he was fine, went and had a shower came back and he was petrified like thumping running everywhere so scared I’ve never seen him like that he’s always been sweet and friendly even the day I got him

[LBJ10]

Sometimes they have mild seizures that resemble them freaking out or being spooked. Hopefully he’ll calm down after a bit. Poor thing.

[Gracie]

Mild seizures? D: is that dangerous? Is there anything bad caused from it?

[Bam]

Mild seizures are not considered bad per se, only if the bun falls over and hits it’s head or something while seizing. For disabled rabbits people often recommend a padded environment, there are descriptions on the Disabled-Rabbits page that Mikey linked to. 

[Gracie]

Well so far he’s not disabled praying it’ll stay that way he just got really spooked for 10 minutes was so severe. Then 10 minutes later I went back and he was timid but nowhere near as crazy. He seems okay tho this morning I’m just so worried he’s gunna end up like her because he was holding his leg up for a few minutes the other day and that’s how she started off but I’m giving him all the same medication as her in the hopes that aggressive treatment so early might help him

[Bam]

No, I know he’s not disabled, I just meant in regards to seizures, the main problem with both humans and animals that have brief seizures is if they hurt themselves falling over. But it doesn’t seem like he has sth like that going on. After a seizure an animal (or person) can appear a little dazed for a while. But that’s normal after a seizure.

[Gracie]

Ah I see I’m not sure what caused it but it was odd I’ve never seen a rabbit so terrified before and I used to have a very nervous bunny who had been mistreated previously and she could be very nervous at first. Anyway at the moment I’m still home because of her and I put him in his run because I’m cleaning both of them out daily to make sure their whole cage and everything in it is super clean (as well as cleaning her up every couple of hours) anyway he’s binkying all over the place and is running up to me and up at the bars when I’m there like normal so hopefully he’s okay.

[Gracie]

Has anyone got any suggestions for a podgy bunny? Shes always been like big not fat but really healthy whereas boys much smaller and skinnier. But as she can’t move now and is impossibly hungry and thirsty she’s getting quite podgy I don’t want to have to limit her food because she just seems so hungry but she’s not eating that much more than normal I think it’s just lack of exercise that’s the cause I’ve tried holding her bum and back legs up so she can walk along but she doesn’t like it very much then her front legs seem to get too tired after two hops

[Gracie]

Oh also sorry one last thing – When I pick her up to check her underneath and sometimes to move her off a spot to clean, when I put her down again is when she manages to move slightly and she almost always pees, I don’t think i’m anywhere near her bladder, am I causing her to pee? :S

[Bam]

I think perhaps moving her could make her produce urine du to enhanced bloodcirculation. I think it’s like that with immobilized humans as well. Anyway I don’t think you’re hurting her by moving her. I think you need to move her now and then.

[LBJ10]

Seizures take different forms. You have the classic kind where the individual convulses and is unaware of their environment. Then you have partial seizures that cause twitching, etc. But the individual is still aware of their surroundings. There were a couple other cases on here where a bunny was having mild partial seizures. They would freak out and act really spooked. I’m not sure what mechanisms are behind that. Anyway, it typically is not a chronic thing. At least not when it’s caused by EC.

[vanessa]

Could u get a picture of the post bun? How much does she weigh? What breed? Age? How much pellets does she eat per day? Its a good idea to limit all your bunny’s pellets to 2-tbsp per 4lbs ideal body weight. When I limited guineveres pellets (my podgy bun), she acted starving. But she did start to lose weight, and after she lost some weight, she felt active enough to get more exercise. Now she runs and binkies in my room every morning, and is looking a lot better. I gave her enough pellets for what I wanted her weight to be, not for his much she weighed at the time.(edit for typos)

[Gracie]

I can find all that out and I will but should I limit her food if she can’t move? I mean she’s lost the use of her back legs from something but it’s absolutely not the weight she was fine before.

[vanessa]

Sorry I’m a bit confused about which bunny is which. Is the dodgy female the one with suspected economic? Or four have 3 bunnies?

[vanessa]

Darn auto type keeps changing podgy to dodgy…

[Gracie]

Sorry haha I have two bunnies Clementine which is the girl and Atticus is the boy. The girl is the one who can’t move at all and has subsequently got a little podgy haha. The boy seems fine although showed signs the other day so is having the same treatment – he still seems fine moving though was running about binkying earlier. So really hoping he doesn’t end up like her.

[vanessa]

U already keep her food within close reach right?

[vanessa]

If her immobilitystarted on June w7 which is when u first wrote, that’s only a week ago. Perhaps it is her posture that makes u notice her weight?

[Gracie]

It’s nearby but I’m currently doing nothing but staying at home with her so I make sure she’s not wanting anything every hour and move her etc. She’s also sitting on a huge bed of hay with a few different types of hay to eat which she munches on continuously and she gets fresh veggies fed to her everyday. It’s not her posture she’s eating more than normal and getting no exercise haha I’ll weigh her in a minute because I was weighing her back before this happened everyday because vet said might help tell if shes pregnant so I can see how much she’s gained over a week

[Gracie]

Okay so she weighs 2.20kg Last week she was 2.35kg. She’s a pure bred Castor Rex 18 weeks old. I don’t know how many pellets a day because I just make sure there’s always some there – she’s not like finishing the bowl ever, but still eats Link is 2 pictures of her, were taken last night when I was letting her eat some grass http://imgur.com/a/DU0my

She did make a small noise when I put her on the scale today like almost a squeal? But not really? was very quiet but she made a similar one last night when she was just eating hay in her cage.

[vanessa]

I’m having trouble with the link. Iv never had an overweight sick bun. On my an underweight sick bun. She is still young enough to b on unlimited pellets, but if This is ec, it could take a while to resolve. I’d probably go ahead and give her 2 tbsp pellets twice a day, and up the hay and veggie intake. She should eat more hay automatically, but do provide more veggies. I guess the choice here us treat the economy and worry about the weight later, or manage both now, since it might b a few months till the economy is resolved enough. A few months could be bad for weight gain. Just keep an eye on her that she doesn’t get too thin. Economy is more serious than weight gain, so the choice is yours… I free feed Lancelot coz he is underweight, but all my other buns get fed twice a day. But they r also healthy…

[Muchelle]

Sorry for not checking in for a while, Gracie. How are the babies? Is the boy better?
The squeal most likely was a polite protest to being put on the scale. Another noise of protest you might hear is a “grunf grunf” (almost like a little pig) sound.
She looks beautiful and doesn’t seem overweight to me!

[Gracie]

Hi that’s okay, he seems okay but am still treating him I spoke to the vet today and he said make today’s dose of the baytril and metacam his last as that will have been 5 days worth, but to obviously continue with the panacur. She’s still unable to move but she has made small improvements every day so far, when I carry her to the lawn I put her down and she kind of hops a few times then stops her record so far is 6 in a row when she does this though her movements aren’t at all normal. I asked the vet what to do about her medication he said keep her on everything up until Friday then just give panacur and metacam. I hoping she’ll just keep improving at the moment. She’s very loving now unlike before when she was just a terror haha although when she doesn’t want her water bowel anymore she nudges it and gets water all over my hand then demands food.

[Muchelle]

So good to hear! Seems to me she’s fighting pretty hard The “rehab” therapy outdoors might also be stimulating her to be more active and try harder. When my bun had that ear infection (complication of a major surgery) it took him about one month to start moving somewhat normally, so I guess it falls in the normal range that it’s taking her so long from a real neurological affliction. I truly hope she keeps doing as great <3

[Gracie]

Thank you so much I want to get the boy spayed as he’s getting a bit hormonal but way too scared whilst I’m not sure what’s happening with him he’s becoming a right nightmare tho and he really misses her altho she doesn’t seem to care too much

[Vienna Blue in France]

Do ‘we’ still not know if shes pregnant yet…..?

[Gracie]

I really doubt she’s pregnant – well I hope not, why?

[Bam]

My guess is Vienna was just thinking about a reason for the weight gain and the hearty appetite despite being poorly. It would make more sense if she were pregnant, but she probably isn’t. The nesting behavior you saw was so long ago now, it’s usually what they do very late in the pregnancy, like the day before the babies come.

[Gracie]

Ah I see yes I don’t think she is, was just a phantom pregnancy I think

[Gracie]

10 hops in a row! Dodgy ones but that’s movement

[Bam]

10 hops! Good girl!!! Yay!

[LBJ10]

Yay! That sounds like some improvement there!

[vanessa]

Hop bunny hop! 🙂

[LittlePuffyTail]

[Gracie]

Okay so I finally found a good vet nearby ish that I took them to. The vet was amazing he said it’s not EC both her knee caps have slipped to the side. There’s only been 1 reported case of it before but he’s going to get an orthopedic surgeon to operate with him and he said that once they’re back in place she should be absolutely fine! And be able to lead a normal life the boy doesnt have the issue happiness doesn’t even cover how I feel haha anyway just thought I’d update the thread

[jerseygirl]

Ahhhh…Im so pleased for you!! Yay for great vets!
I hope it is a successful procedure and she’s up and about in no time.

Did this vet say anything about continuing on with the panacur anyway? Since you are already partway through the course?

[Gracie]

I hope so too they can’t do it til the 26th of this month though so she’ll need constant care til then. Yea I’m going to continue for both of them anyway

[Muchelle]

Posted By Gracie on 7/07/2017 9:52 AM

Okay so I finally found a good vet nearby ish that I took them to. The vet was amazing he said it’s not EC both her knee caps have slipped to the side. There’s only been 1 reported case of it before but he’s going to get an orthopedic surgeon to operate with him and he said that once they’re back in place she should be absolutely fine! And be able to lead a normal life the boy doesnt have the issue happiness doesn’t even cover how I feel haha anyway just thought I’d update the thread

OMG!! I’m legit super happy right now! YASSSSS go baby buns!  

[Gracie]

Thank you I’m so happy too – it’s so me though to pick the animal with the unusual problems haha

[LBJ10]

Well, this thread has taken a strange turn. LOL

That’s great if it turns out to be a genetic defect that can be fixed. Keep up the treatment though, just in case. It can’t hurt anyway. Now you just need to wait for the vet to do the surgery. I’m sorry it can’t be sooner.

[Bam]

Amazing! Please keep us updated!

[Gracie]

Yes it really has haha will do the boy apparently doesn’t have the defect either so should be okay

[Vienna Blue in France]

Well well. It was so obvious….. “Hiding in plain sight” as Jersey would say….

[vanessa]

Wow! Fantastic that your bun will b healthy again!

[Gracie]

Yes I just hope it fixes it and there’s no complications, I’m such a pessimist haha

[Author]

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