Theo went into stasis again last night.. feeling so defeated

[Theodorusrex]

Not so much a question as a venting exercise.

We were at the emergency vets again with Theo last night – same story. Refusing food, lethargic, grinding his teeth, hunched etc etc. 

Vet was very keen to admit him and keep him in but I convinced her to let him come home with us, I felt experienced enough with this to cope with the syringe feeding etc, and I felt that keeping him in an emergency vets with noisy dogs etc about would hurt more than help the situation. He got the usual s.c. fluids, ranitidine, metacam. Then syringe feeding hourly once we got him home. He is coming round today slowly.

I just feel so sad and helpless about this situation, he is only 2 and this is his 4th bout of life-threatening stasis in the space of less than a year. We’re baffled, the 5 different vets we’ve seen are baffled. I feel like we’ve tried everything. 

I’m just so terrified that sometime it will happen while we’re away and whoever’s sitting him won’t respond quickly enough, or it’ll happen some day while I’m at work and we won’t catch it in time.

I love Theo to death and I feel like he is going to have a short life because we can’t get this under control  It sounds super dramatic but I’m just feeling down about it. Felt the need to rant, if you’ve read this far you’re a saint and thank you .  Just feel so helpless 

[Gina.Jenny]

(((Theo)))

[vanessa]

Is it perhaps gas? Have you tried simethicone?

[Theodorusrex]

Yeah, simethicone is always the first step when we notice he’s not feeling 100%. Sometimes within the hour he will have started nibbling again, other times it doesn’t touch the symptoms at all, like last night. Thats the weird thing about the last couple of episodes, he hasn’t felt bloated or gassy at all. There are just no gut sounds whatsoever but it would seem, no painful gas.

Thank you GJ <3

[vanessa]

Hmmm… that sucks, I’m sorry 🙁 Have you tried digestive support like Oxbow Natural Science Digestive Support Tablets and Sherwood Forest Digestive Support Tablets? I give Lancelot 2 Oxbows a day, every day, and 4 Sherwood forest tablets a day – every day.

[Theodorusrex]

I’ve never tried those ones, no. He gets a scoop of protexin pro-fibre probiotics every day and a papaya plus oxbow treat (although I know the evidence for papaya is shaky). I might try those, do you find them good?

[Bam]

Sherwood isn’t available in the EU. I’ve emailed them and asked

Is there any way you could get sub q fluids and gear to keep at home + motility meds and Metacam? I think our member Redbunbun had that for her megacolon bunny Sukka. It’d be easier on poor Theo if you didn’t have to take him in each time this happens, since it occurs so (comparatively) often.
You’d need a very sympathetic vet for that though.

As you know I have the pro-fiber pellets for Bam, but I’ve lately found Protexin professional probiotic sachets more helpful with his tummy. It’s available in 5 gram sachets but I only use a very small amount (tip of a knife) per day, so one sachet lasts a long time, more than a month. I sprinkle it on a wet dandelion leaf for him.

[vanessa]

I think they have merit. Now that he is on them, he only stops eating from pain/nausea. So at least I can pinpoint the cause instead of now knowing. I do especially like the Sherwood Forest. It has papaya enzymes, but it also has Vitamin B – which I really like because it keeps his appetite up. That has made a big improvement in his overall condition.

[Theodorusrex]

Thanks Bam, I will have to order some of those sachets to try. Do you give them alongside the protexin pellets? Theo would be bereft if I book those off him

I’ve often wondered that Bam, whether we could have these things at home. I’m not sure how confident I’d feel administering the sub cut fluid but I would be happy with the others. Does ranitidine come orally for rabbits? He normally gets a shot at the vet. The emergency vet has told me it would be unlikely the vet would prescribe the ranitidine at home as its an off-license use in rabbits (as are most things)

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Theodorusrex on 5/24/2017 12:09 PM

Thanks Bam, I will have to order some of those sachets to try. Do you give them alongside the protexin pellets? Theo would be bereft if I book those off him

I’ve often wondered that Bam, whether we could have these things at home. I’m not sure how confident I’d feel administering the sub cut fluid but I would be happy with the others. Does ranitidine come orally for rabbits? He normally gets a shot at the vet. The emergency vet has told me it would be unlikely the vet would prescribe the ranitidine at home as its an off-license use in rabbits (as are most things)

Buttercup had oral Ranitidine a couple of times. She liked the taste of it too. 

I agree it would be better for you and Theo to have something at home to save the stress. I don’t know about subq fluids tho. Poor little guy I wish I had something helpful to offer. It seems we both have very sensitive rabbits! Big hugs to you and Theo xx

[vanessa]

Sherwood isn’t available in the EU. I’ve emailed them and asked  
  
  

That sucks. I like the word “sachet”. I’m from south Africa, and Americans don’t use “sachet”. They use “packet”. I thow “sachet” around every chance I get!

But back to Theo… is there any other way in the EU to get him a regular Vitamin B supplement? I got the Vitamin B idea from Bam – and I love it. I distinctly notice that when he has his 2 morning tabs – he eats well. Then his 2 evening tabs – and he eats well. It all adds up in the end.

[Bam]

Ranitidine is an OTC med for humans. It’s sold as Zantac or as generic ranitidine. I gave Yohio 1/10 of a 150 mg pill, he weighed 2700 grams. I crushed it between the blades of two spoons and mixed with water. My vet was ok with that. Bam has thankfully never needed any. He mostly has a persistent sticky poop issue.

I give Bam a little bit of the pro-fibre pellets as well, but more as a treat now. He really loves them

[Bam]

Vanessa, vitamin B could be something! Yohio always had fluids with vitamin B when he had his bouts of stasis. I’d forgot that!

Packet sounds a lot larger than sachet to me

[Ellie from The Netherlands]

Please don’t say your frustration is overly dramatic, we’d all be just as concerned and frustrated as you are! Others have given some good tips, but I can’t help but think: can rabbits have food allergies? I know some dogs do, some are allergic to grains, soy or even some animal proteins like fish.

Have you or your vet thought about this possibility, and could there be a way to put Theo on an elimination diet to see what’s causing him trouble?

[vanessa]

I try and hit all angles as a preventative. Vitamin B to keep them eating, probiotics to keep the gut functioning, and whatever herbal/enzyme support I can get my hands on… And water of course… flavored if that’s what it takes…

OK I’m going to have to start a thread with international words… 🙂

[Bam]

BBs bunny is allergic to timothy hay, so they can have food allergies. I don’t know what symptoms she gets though.

[Boston's Mama]

I realise my bunnies situation is not common so I’m in no way suggesting to go this route – merely sharing my experience as it is different to a lot of others and I had to go the opposite of the most ( most have to reduce pellets and increase veges ) who have similar issues

My boy was having repeatitive gi issues – stasis – then followed by diarreah – true runny type which would scary the bleep out of me , I would sit up at least 3 full overnighters a week keeping him warm encouraging eating of him

This baffled his vets , he was on great pellets ( oxbow ) at a right amount , lived indoors , no illness he could find – labeled him ittermitent soft stool syndrome and reduced cecal intake … this went on from 8weeks old till 5months old – when we tried to introduce herbs and increase grass intake in hopes of reducing pellets … turns out grass causes his stomach to react – and herbs – and veges – and fruit!!!
He is so sentive that one tiny mint leaf will start GI stasis …now he has a completely brown diet – hay and pellets – and it has meant 2 months of no sleepless nights cradled over my wee man

My point in relevance is – it’s not always the mainstream cause – it might be a case of stripping his diet to a minimal (one vege you know he is ok on , pellets and hay ) then once a month add one thing – then a month later another and seeing if their is a trigger food

[vanessa]

Good point O&B’sM. That is also what Dianna Kremples writes in one of her stasis articles. Hay and water only – no pellets or veggies. That’s what I did – no – that’s what my mom made me do – when I was a little kid with allergies. Stripped my diet down to 1 or 2 foods for months at a time, before adding one more food at a time.

[WRXFamily]

I’m so sorry to hear about all your stress. Lots of ((vibes)) for Theo.

[ergodic]

Did you have any blood work done? I had one rabbit that had a gastric ulcer which was causing his stasis. Blood work would indicate anemia
Is he shedding? My rabbits will go into stasis due to the gut slow down from ingesting fur.

I hope Theo feels better, Gracie is having similar issues.

My vet thinks it might be something to do with the change in weather.

[Luna]

Oh Theo . OBM brings up a good point about stripping down to the basics food wise. STG’s Buttercup has had some recurring stasis issues and she has gone back to basics. This may be a silly suggestion because I know probiotics are good, but maybe that specific probiotic is giving Theo tummy problems? Maybe try a different probiotic? Luna sends vibes ((((Theo))))

[Q8bunny]

Since I can almost never get the Not Read tab to load, I seem to miss threads about buns I love. I’m so sorry that Theo was poorly again. I agree with the others that a prolonged hay and water diet with once in a blue moon reintroduction of other edibles would be my go-to approach. Something’s triggering Theo’s stasis – you just need to figure out what. The profalactic supplements also sound great, but again, introduced one at a time and well spaced apart to watch for reaction.

Since my vet (any vet) is more than a half hour drive away, I have sub-q fluids, equipment, and stasis meds at home. Talk to your vet. If she’s the one who’s seen Theo through all his episodes, she might be more receptive of home treatment than you might think.

((((((Theo)))))) Wishing your darling boy a speedy recovery.

[Vienna Blue in France]

Hmmmm. Not so sure bout that. You’re talking about a country who wldnt sell me infacol because I mentioned it was for a bunny, not a baby…..

[Theodorusrex]

Thank you all for your kind replies – sorry I haven’t got back quicker but I have been a busy bee

Theo is doing much better again, thanks everyone for your kind words and vibes – we had about 30 binkies yesterday so I think he is feeling better

@vanessa – will look into vitamin B – makes sense as they prescribe Hydroxocobalamin(VitB12a) for humans with reduced energy/appetite so makes sense!
@sarahthegemini – I will have to ask my vet about oral ranitidine then, although it would be near impossible to get it into him if he was already refusing food.
@bam – I have always been too nervous to administer human oral ranitidine to Theo. As a pharmacist I think I am over-cautious when it comes to dosing etc! It is maybe worth a try next time he is unwell. I’d be so worried he wouldn’t improve and I’d have to tell the vet that I gave him human zantac and they would shout at me haha.
@Ellie an elimination diet may be useful for sure.. he gets a pretty steady diet of pellets/hay and a variety of greens usually romaine, basil, coriander, parsley and mint. I may need to cut right back to basics.
@Oakley I may try stripping his diet way down. Honestly, though, I believe he is just SUPER sensitive to fur ingestion as he is moulting really heavily at the moment. Its important to explore all avenues too though.
@WRXFamily thank you for the vibes
@ergodic I’ve never had blood work suggested to me by the vet but maybe it’s something I should request at this stage just to role something sinister out. I think it’s likely caused by fur ingestion as you mention though. The weather has been uncharacteristically hot and sunny here in Ireland lately
@Luna I’m going to try the different probiotic Bam mentioned further up in the thread. Having said that though Theo’s tummy health has improved massively since we started him on the Protexin probiotics, so much so that I’m honestly scared to cut them down! We ran out a few months ago for a few days and Theo had a stasis episode – I felt so bad!
@Q8 Thanks so much for your kind words. I will definitely have to chat to my vet and see what options we have – it would be great if we could even get ranitidine or similar at home. Would save so much money for us (consultation fee at the emergency vet is £174, before they even administer any meds!) and of course would save a lot of stress for poor Theo. I’d love to try him on a hay only diet but I’d a. feel so guilty depriving him and b. worry he would starve as he’s a good hay eater but not a massive eater.
@Vienna You’re very right.. I can’t say much though! I’m a pharmacist and if a patient asked me to buy infacol for a rabbit I’d have to refuse the sale. Because it’s not licensed by the manufacturer for rabbits if I sell it knowingly for a rabbit and the rabbit takes a bad reaction, it becomes my responsibility rather than the manufacturer and in theory I could get sued! That’s why I never say anything when buying it lol! health and safety gone mad.

[Bam]

It’s good you are over-cautious imho. If your vet knows you’re a pharmacist I think they could be more willing to let you have prescription meds for Theo at home. As a pharmacist you have the required knowledge and respect for drugs.

Wabbitwiki has dosages for most meds that can be given to rabbits, in case you need to look stuff up or double-check etc:
http://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Common_drug_dosages_for_rabbits

You can give him both the Protexin pellets + a tip-of-knife-amount of the Professional probiotics that comes in sachets. Probiotics can’t really be overdosed, any unused surplus will just be pooped out.

[Author]

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