Boston’s eyes

[Boston's Mama]

[Boston's Mama]

Some of you know already when I got Boston he had vision issues already at 8 weeks old. No cataracts but def reduced very limited vision .
Well over night he developed some clouding in lower half of both eyes Does it look like cataracts? He didn’t have any clouding despite the vision loss prior …

[jerseygirl]

I can’t see much from the photo. Can you tell what area of the eye it is affecting? Like, the outer clear layer or under that? More in the centre or outer area of the eyeball?

I know you’ve had some concerns with his eyes. With such a sudden change, I’d get him checked out by your regular vet, but maybe ask about them referring you to an opthalmology vet if they aren’t able to diagnose this latest change.

[Boston's Mama]

[Boston's Mama]

Is that one any clearer/better? That blue grey cloud mosh look at the bottom of eye and flows up the sides

[jerseygirl]

How odd! Both eyes are doing this? Best get him seen and they can do a pressure test of the eye. It doesn’t look like cataract to me. My rabbit Jelly had them from a young age and it was the pupil that appeared a smokey blue colour.

It’s not the iris changing colour, is it??

[Boston's Mama]

[Boston's Mama]

Yep both eyes. He usually has brown eyes with a ruby cast – but the brown is such a cloudy colour that when I asked my wife to have a look just now she said ” all I see are his blue eyes with black centre ” and I said “his eyes aren’t blue! “

[jerseygirl]

It looks like uveitis as far as I can tell.

[Boston's Mama]

My vet is away sick – there are no other rabbit vets here and I have not heard of a eye vet here…I know I asked about Boston’s vision once before and the vet said ” yep he def has limited vision but I see no cataracts so nothing can be done for it – you are doing everything I would do” meaning the no hideaways as he hates enclosed spaces – easy to move around cage – talking to him to tell him I’m near etc. he didn’t want anything else done and said there is nothing medical to do

[jerseygirl]

Worth a look. http://www.petmd.com/rabbit/conditions/eyes/c_rb_anterior_uveitis

Another vet may be able to recognised the condition though. And Bostons notes are at the clinic. I think the main thing is giving an anti-inflammatory at this stage.

[Boston's Mama]

He did have EC and 28 days treatment when I got him so I guess it’s possible . and he produces too many tears for the tear duct to keep up with the vet said .
He doesn’t seem any differnet other than that and once a day for 7days poopy butt but I think I banana I used to get him to know where his drinks bottle is is to blame for the poopy but

[LBJ10]

Is this the iris and not the cornea? It almost looks like he’s developing marbling, which can happen with dilute colored rabbits like blue. Well, it can happen with a lot of things. Like Dutch and Vienna marked bunnies. But I believe I read somewhere that it can happen with dilute colorings as well.

[jerseygirl]

Was he prescribed any anti-inflammatory meds at the time? If you have any left, you could start him on it again.

Does he react to strong light?

[Boston's Mama]

I’m pretty sure he is either blind or close to it … he bumps into things , falls over things , won’t go into any dark places ( hideaways tunnels etc ) very needy of attention and when he hears me he goes frantic trying to get to me looking in my general direction but I think that’s based on sound until I am close – like right in front of him – then he can either see me or make out my form from light changes

[Boston's Mama]

I just looked up marbling and I think your right jersey!!

Wow how much more interesting can his eyes get! Brown with ruby cast and now marbled blue !

[jerseygirl]

LBJ

[Boston's Mama]

What’s lbj?

[LBJ10]

That’s me. Jersey was just pointing out that it was my suggestion.

Boston is still young and I’ve seen cases on here where marbling develops as young bunnies get a little older. That’s why I suggested it. Plus it looks to be limited to the iris in the pictures.

[Boston's Mama]

Oh right it makes sense now haha ! I was having issues viewing binkybunny from my phone yesterday for some reason and it was only showing me half the screen ( cutting off the side with names and profile pics etc) so I assumed it was jersey replying each time
Sorry about that!

Yes I think your onto it with the marbling – I will try get some clearer photos a bit later on and hope they make it easier to see what I mean

[jerseygirl]

How are his eyes looking now?

Its the watering eyes in conjuction with these changes that concern me. If there was some infection/inflammation responsible for the changes, increased tear production could be a symptom. 

[Boston's Mama]

The same – it’s so hard to photograph

His eyes aren’t watery as in wet , he started awhile ago now where he will form sores , looks like dried eye sleep but has to be picked off – like scabs…
back when this was happening I treated it like conguntivitis – cleaned with clean cotton wool/ chamomile tea and honey – it made no difference so went to vet. He said it’s not blocked tear ducts but a condition where he makes to many tears for the duct to keep up with. He described it as like a tap faucet if you leave the tap dripping… then turn it up slightly so it drips a wee bit faster – the plug hole can’t drain it as fast as it could before.
He said its not uncommon and he will outgrow it. And to remover the scabs in the meantime regularly- which I do. That problem has lessoned not worsened though, so I am thinking it’s not related-?

[Boston's Mama]

[Boston's Mama]

Is that one any easier to see it in jersey? The arrows points are where the cloudy level stops… below those arrow points down it is cloudy

[Boston's Mama]

[LBJ10]

That looks like it’s the iris in that picture.

[BunnyFriends]

Agreeing with LBJ. Maybe his eyes just changed colors?

[Boston's Mama]

I agree but can his eyes turn half cloud coloured???
The bottom half looks cloudy gray and the top half is brown and he has a ruby glow to his eyes too

They use to be all brown with ruby glow

[LBJ10]

The blue will likely continue to deepen. It looks gray-ish right now. But it looks very much like marbling to me. This would explain the ruby cast in his eyes that were such a mystery before. And, like I said, marbling often develops as young bunnies start to get a little older.

[Boston's Mama]

Can you tell me again how it explains the ruby glow?
Is it because the marbling comes from rew gene and so does the ruby glow or ???

[jerseygirl]

Ive only seen pics of heterochromia, where the blue section is really defined. Ive heard of it referred to “vienna-ing” before, as if the vienna gene being responsible, but I’m not certain that is the case for all that have these dual coloured eyes.

As long as the pupil looks round & is in the centre, then I guess this is his colour genetics revealing themselves!

I think the “ruby glow” or “ruby cast” to the brown eyes is due to the Sable gene. You see it sometimes in shaded rabbits. Maple has a bit of a ruby glow too. She was a sable point ( I think).

[jerseygirl]

I don’t know what gene would be responsible for the marbling. Most probably the vienna gene?? I did find this pic of a sable point rabbit (or perhaps its a sable that hasn’t developed its full colour yet as it’s young) that has the half/half colour eye. It has a sibling that is vienna marked (as seen in the pic).
http://anomalyrabbitry.com/tag/sectoral-heterochromia/

I think the vienna gene can “strip off” or “cover” colour genetically in some areas on a rabbit. I remember watching a video of a tri-colour rabbit that had blue eyes. The eye colour was from the vienna gene. But it also had completely white ears and the woman in the vid said that the vienna gene “removed” colour from the ear. So if the rabbit hadn’t got that gene, it’s ears would be pigmented and the eyes likely brown. The REW gene does this also. It covers all other possible colours, even thought the rabbit may have all those colour genes

[LBJ10]

Blue eyes often have a ruby cast to them. Marbled eyes can have a ruby cast as well. Marbling is associated with the Dutch, Vienna, Chinchilla, and Hotot genes/breeds. Boston definitely has something mixed in there. I think Jersey is on to something with her example.

[Boston's Mama]

Oh he’s def a purebred holland lop over here we have more colours in ours than the USA do in the breed

We have Vienna marked ( not sure if USA do in hollands ?) and blue eyed white Vienna carriers , sable point / seal point / ghost seal point / blue point etc etc
We also have beige and beige otter and blue otter which USA doesn’t too

[Boston's Mama]

we figured out prior who the likely breeder is ( long story ) but it appears his mum was sable point with ruby cast – so if Boston carries Vienna I would be guessing dad will be a Vienna carrying blue eyed white holland lop that breeder has.

[jerseygirl]

Those genes LBJ mentioned don’t necessarily have to do with breed. Rabbit genetics gets so confusing with the crossover of colour names and breed names and then the genes.  (Like chinchilla gene, vienna gene. Chinchilla and Vienna also being rabbit breeds). There are 5 main genes that will determine a rabbits coat colour.

The 5 are Agouti, Black/chocolate, Colour (better to call this the C gene as calling it Colour makes things more confusing again!), Dilution gene (so how dense or dilute a colour will be) and Extension gene.
With the C gene (colour gene), it gets quite complex. You have genes here responsible for Full colour, Chinchilla gene, Sable gene (sometimes called Shaded), Himalayan gene, Ruby Eye White gene.

If Boston is a sable point holland lop (??) his genotype is likely something like: aa B – cchl – D – ee (where cchl is the sable gene).
Then you can add to that the Vienna gene. So a rabbit may have vienna gene in is genotype but it’s not obvious looking at them.

we figured out prior who the likely breeder is ( long story ) but it appears his mum was sable point with ruby cast – so if Boston carries Vienna I would be guessing dad will be a Vienna carrying blue eyed white holland lop that breeder has.

Its possible, but if this breeder is looking to produce showable rabbits or keeping a BEW line strong, having bred a shaded bun with a BEW would be a mistake. It would give future BEW the ruby cast and it isn’t desirable for showing.
Also, if it’s known a rabbit is Vienna marked or a Vienna carrier, they will often get sold as pets. If you’re trying to produce showable colours (aside from BEW) then you wouldn’t want to breed with V marked or V carrier as you’d get rabbits with either white spots, or it affect eye and nail colour. But these make adorable pets with some cute, unique type markings.

Well, that is what I’ve garnered from my crash course in genetics today. I probably won’t retain anything Ive learned but is had only confirmed for me that colour genetics is super complex. So many variables!

[jerseygirl]

btw, I also learnt the chinchilla gene comes into play for the frosty rabbits. It’s crazy. I know you had an interested in the frosteds.
They are genetically similar to the oranges (in holland lops) but the chinchilla gene strips out the yellow, leaving white or pearl colour.

[Boston's Mama]

Oh I was thinking the comment about him having something else mixed in was in ref to a different breed based on the did colours in hollands in dif countries as I have had that confusion with USA breeders I am friends with as we have more colours here than there. I know the chinchilla and Vienna are colours and genes as well as breeds I’ve been learning and researching heaps on rabbit genetics – especially holland Lop colour genetics
Frosted pearls would be a dream for me but it would be a “accident” to get one here as there are zero breeders here of lops intentionally breeding colours from the chinchilla gene

I’ve only seen two orange listed in a year … fawns happen a lot ( the dilute of orange) as they are regularly littermates to blue whichever is also a dilute and most wanted colour here generally

Cream ( Oakley’s colour ) genetically is dilute version of fawn – so twice diluted orange – but here they can it beige otter because the genetics aren’t understood and it’s thought to be beige with otter markings where as it is a agouti colour as is orange / fawn / cream and it’s agouti markings causing the markings
because of the lack of knowledge with genetics here even show breeders put blue tort in the beige category for showing and judges don’t even know they aren’t
When I was looking for a bun (Oakley) I researched heaps and was shocked to see even “top” breeders really didn’t understand the genetics or what colours their own stock even was. Then Oakley’s colour confused everyone – even judges we contacted to see if he was showable colour got his colour wrong – that’s when I decided to learn about the Aa Bb Cc Dd Ee etc etc and the chinchilla gene , Vienna gene etc
But I hadn’t come across the mixed colour eyes – although I do admit I didn’t pay too much attention to the BEW genes and their Vienna carrying ability as Vienna marked genes can ruin solid colour lines and solid colours interested me more ( I don’t breed but hoped to show but ended up with two unshowable colours here as cream isn’t showable which is a shame as Oakley’s type , crown – everything – is great. Boston is not papered , has a slipped crown and a overall goofy look not show type )

Always interested to learn more though this eye colour change thing I find really interesting!

[Boston's Mama]

Also if we are right on Boston’s breeder they will not care what they are breeding just that they breed. They don’t show – they have appalling looking conditions ( such as hutches Babies couldn’t stand up in at 4weeks- I’ve seen photos!)
And they mass breed – Boston was one of 50 that came in at once from same breeder to petstore.

[BunnyFriends]

Well, it makes sense. Breeders that breed for pet stores are only in it for the money and mass breed so they make more. If people see all the cute bunnies there, they’re going to buy them.
Glad Boston got out of there, he’s such a cutie

While we’re on genetics, my fourth grade science fair project was on them (rabbit ones) and I actually remember a lot of it.

[LBJ10]

Thank you Jersey for going into more depth about that. That is what I meant, one of those genes (probably Vienna) is likely mixed into Boston’s genetics. He may be purebred Holland lop, but breeders often mix genes in there to get different colors. If the breeder was breeding mostly to sell to pet stores, then they aren’t going to care if the rabbits are showable. They just breed them to be cute and to have unique colors, which is very appealing to some people. It’s the same thing with dogs. Breeders selling to pet stores don’t care about breed standards, they just want to produce cute puppies that will sell.

[Boston's Mama]

Yeah I totally agree. See over here only holland lops sell in pet stores so that is all the petstores take in ( except the very odd Flemish baby )
So usually they have breeders that will breed bulk and sell them cheap as regulars.
Hence they usually being kept in small hutches , fed rubbish food , often sick etc

I refused to support that hence why I paid way more to go to a fantastic breeder for Oakley and waited a long time to get him as hard as that was.
And I’m glad I did wait.

Boston I was not going to get – I just wanted the petstore to help him as he was sitting in their sick – but they weren’t despite my badgering and I just couldn’t leave him like that. I am glad I didnt he needed me and he is amazing and unlike any bunny I’ve ever met
But I wish I didn’t fund that petshop and breeder. They between them caused the crappy conditions that led to most of his health issues – the rest of it ( ec ) wood have come from mums condition and the crappy tiny tiny space they were in with her

[Author]

Messages