RE: Male Male both not neutered – Initial bonding Stopped – Now neutered – Bonding Restart – Bonded

[VeroAlmo]

Short version of my questions:

These boys seem to be doing great together with mild and sweet personalities so… 

What are the thoughts outside of how crazy we are for the male male not neutered action even if their initial interactions have been great?

Am I being too optimistic for them to bond without being neutered? Has anyone ever heard of a not neutered boy on boy bonding? I didn’t have much luck finding that in this bonding section which makes me think we are completely nuts and I am delusional!

So, this is the long novel version for intros and bunny backgrounds !

Background on Bunnies: I have had my male Stewart for a year now and I am a first-time bunny mom. He is a year and 3 months old and not neutered. Stewart can be ppl shy and is not a fan of being picked up but he is an absolute sweetheart and likes to be near you. No grunts and never sprayed around the house. His only dislike is the brush we use to clean his house (full on attack mode).

Onto our newest bunny, his name is Pepe he is 2 and a half years old and we have had him for 3 days now. Pepe was in need of a home so we took him on, very last minute decision. So far Pepe is a super cuddler and would prefer to be in your arms all the time. He is a big time grunter which I am not used to and does it the moment I walk by his cage. He keeps grunting if he can see you until you pick him up (I AM IN LOVE). His grunts seem to be about attention not so much about aggression.

So of course we want our bunnies to get along but Pepe is not neutered either and from everything I have read we are already starting the bonding off wrong.

The pick up and Home entry: I use a Sherpa bag to carry our first bunny Stewart, so it smells like him, I picked Pepe up the new bunny in Stewart’s sherp bag to intro his smell. Pepe sniffed it the entire car ride home. Once I got home I chucked Pepe’s harness and leash he came with into Stewart’s cage while I set up Pepe’s new home. Stewart was very curious but did not approach the leash and harness right away, just sniffed the air a lot (typical Stewart, caution first).

We set Pepe up in our living room out of sight from Stewart. I wanted to make sure Pepe ate and drank and he seemed comfortable right away.

My husband setup a temporary pen in the living room so we can sit with Pepe to get him comfy with us. He was all over us with his little cute grunts and nose nudges to be picked up. He even flopped and binked (happy hopped), btw Stewart is able to see the temp pen from his house.

Bunny Introduction: DAY 1: After about an hour of playing with Pepe and seeing how friendly he is we decided to let Stewart’s door open to see if he wanted to approach the temp pen. AND APPROACH he did, he shot out like a rocket and although we were super nervous the licking fest began through the temp pen gate cubes which have wholes. They played from the opposite side hopping along and the occasional licking. Then they started to stand to see over top of the temp pen lots more licking. Their faces are now moist at this point and the hubby and I are laughing. We say this is going well why not let them be together if it goes south we will break it up. We opened the temp pen and Stewart went right in.

Stewart and Pepe are now in the temp pen together and the first thing that happens on intro of course is mounting by Stewart and then Pepe mounts him. They took turns in this circle dance of humping for like 10 min straight. Slight nipping to keep the other in place during the mount but nothing alarming and they both seemed to not mind. Now they are exhausted and decide to both sit in Pepe’s litter box. So odd to sit in that small litter box together it looked super tight lol. Then Stewart mounted Pepe again and after he was done he ran to the opening in the temp pen and bolted for his house. After Stewart left Pepe grunted at him from the temp pen but Stewart wasn’t having any of that. Even though we left Stewart’s house open he didn’t come out for like another hour or so. When he came out he kind of licked and ran back to his own house never really wanting to enter then temp pen.

Side note: night 1 was rough for me, Pepe thumped and grunted off and on and I came out every time to hold him .

DAY 2: Temp pen is placed up again and Stewart’s door was open to give him the option to come out, it took a long time for Stewart to come out even with all the grunting from Pepe. Once he did they licked through the gate and they laid down side by side for a while. Stewart never went to the entrance of the temp pen so we didn’t have the op to see them interact with no gate up (which is fine). We only want good memories/experiences between them so everything is on their terms. Eventually Stewart went back into his house and we closed his door. Since Pepe seemed to be doing a good job with his litter box we figured no harm in letting him roam around to see the rest of our apartment…well you may have guessed it he roamed right to Stewart’s cage and they again laid next to each other; so lose their fur is touching. We allowed this for hours and they were super calm. All is well in the world.

Side notes: 1. Pepe did not eat or drink, he only wanted to lay next to Stewart. Even with everything moved close to him. Once I put him back in his house he scarfed down his food and drank a ton of water. All of this was available to him while out but he didn’t leave Stewart’s side.

2. Thumping and grunting through the night from Pepe forced me to sleep on the couch!

DAY 3: This is today and it is playing out a lot like yesterday, they are laying side by side now, with Stewart in his house and Pepe laying right outside of it. Stewart has an up and downstairs to his cage and normally he is upstairs always. With Pepe here and on the downstairs ground level that is now where Stewart is hanging out. Occasionally he will go upstairs for his food and water and then Pepe grunts and Stewart comes back down to lay next to him. Pepe is not eating and drinking again even though the food and water are out so I plan to put him in his cage every so often.

***We are not against neutering, I never neutered Stewart because his personality never changed and there were no spraying issues. I never thought we would have another bunny, kind of a pleasant and welcome surprise like most second born. If this bonding isn’t working out of course we will get both neutered.***

[Mikey]

You cannot bond two unneutered males. Not eating and drinking is a sign of high stress and can kill a rabbit within 24 to 48 hours. If he stops eating for more than 8 hours, he needs to see a vet asap. Step two is keeping both boys apart until Pepe is recovered from stasis if he has to see the vet, then get them both neutered. Step three is working on bonding 2 months after both boys are neutered.

[VeroAlmo]

Thanks Mikey. Just to clear something up Pepe has never skipped a meal in the three days we have had him. He just ate later (maybe 2 hours later) since he does not eat when we let him free roam. I now know I have to put him and the food in the house and lock him in there. While in the house he grunts and complains for a few min and then he starts to eat. He has the option to always go in his house and eat or to eat from another bowl in the living room but he basically won’t leave Stewart’s side while out in the living room and I don’t want to put food within reach of both bunnies.

I appreciate the advice/steps and will absolutely continue to ensure both bunnies are not stressed.

[Mikey]

Good, but dont ignore the part about not being able to bond hormonal rabbits

[VeroAlmo]

but but but…they seem like they wanna be buddies. I am gonna try and post a vid so you see how calm they are laying next to each other. Plus from some of the other bonding threads they seem like they are behaving okay together. No? Not buying it huh Mikey. I am being a stubborn lady…le sigh.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By VeroAlmo on 5/07/2017 1:31 AM

but but but…they seem like they wanna be buddies. I am gonna try and post a vid so you see how calm they are laying next to each other. Plus from some of the other bonding threads they seem like they are behaving okay together. No? Not buying it huh Mikey. I am being a stubborn lady…le sigh.

That’s very irresponsible. They could fight at any moment. 

[VeroAlmo]

Agreed, seems the fighting while attempting to bond is always the main concern. That’s why If they are hanging out it is always supervised and my husband or I sit on the floor with them. Even with these hours on end stretches of nothing happening, just laying side by side. Yesterday my bum and my toes got all tingly.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By VeroAlmo on 5/07/2017 6:56 AM

Agreed, seems the fighting while attempting to bond is always the main concern. That’s why If they are hanging out it is always supervised and my husband or I sit on the floor with them. Even with these hours on end stretches of nothing happening, just laying side by side. Yesterday my bum and my toes got all tingly.

How fast are your reflexes? Because if a fight breaks out, it can be a matter of seconds between being close to one another and then trying to tear chunks off each other. I think you’re playing with fire.

[BanditCamp]

The thin is here in the forums is promoting safety for bunnies. Some parents won t go through the procedure because they feel their losing a part of their bunnies personality or they just feel bad overall.

For house rabbits fixing your bunny has lots of benefits, were not just pushing you to get the fixed because it’s common here. As Oakley has stated you need to make a decision that can not only your bunny but yourself as well.

If your not willing to fix both and follow normal house rabbit recommendations from the ABRA or from the helpful folks around here you have to accept the very high and likely fact that you will have a VERY HIGH AND LIKELY fight and possibly seriously sustain SERIOUS or FATAL injuries due to this fight that will happen some time. Sadly it is not a matter of fact of will happen when it will happen. I and others implore you that for your buns safety that you should consider the safer route versus the assumption that everything will work out. If you really love your boys and want to keep them for longer and not think about re homing them try and be the bigger person and thinknabout what you can do to make your bunnies happy. From the picture and video their content now but one day Stewart might take a leaf or a snack from pepe that he might really want and that’s enough for territorial conflict and escalation to possibly having to separate them forever.

Be safe, be smart, the lives of those you care and love reflect in decisions we make every day.

Good luck and hope things go well and if you need help bonding there are articles and forums here for that as well

[vanessa]

I’ve had plenty of unneutered males. Between 2 breeding pairs and 36 kits that I kept untill 3-5 months, (this was a few years ago and my bunnies are now spayed/neutered house pets), I’v seen unneutered/unspayed fights. It’s not nice. Even through a fence. They seem fine and buddy untill the next wave of hormones kicks in and then it is bunny kungfu cage fight. It’s really dangerous for your bunnies. You will have no idea and no warning that it is about to happen. I learned the hard way. I didnt’ know about rabbit forums. I googled and researched, and ther is so much junk out on the intertweb. (That was not a typo :-)) Most of what I found was from people who advocated outdoor rabbits, and advocated not neutering/spaying. So I worked on keeping them separated into different “camps” in my yard. (I didn’t cage them). But they had to have at least 6 inches between their fences. Once the first major fight happens, you will not – and I mean – not – be able to bond them. They remember that stuff and hold grudges. They can learn to hate and distrust eachother. I might sound dramatic – but this is my personal experience. I didn’t see fights in rabbits under 3 months. Only over 3 months. I use to be part of that group who advocated outdoor and not neuter/spay. I’v since changed my mind.

OK – soap box over. You can house them safely where they can see eachother, just dont’ let them get too close. THey are really cute, and since they already have a god relationship, if you can house them separately, get them fixed, and help them to keep the peace, then when you are ready to bond them, it will go smoothly. That was my experience to. After houseing my unfixed breeding pairs close but not too close – after I had them fixed, and gave them a onth to recover (2 months like Mikey suggests is a good idea too), they bonded within 2 weeks. Those were the easiest bonds I have EVER experienced or read about. (My thord bonding experience took 8-10 months of anguish…)

[Mikey]

Did what youre doing (almost a year ago) and it ended with one bunny almost losing a toe. It was less than 2 seconds before I could split the between cage fight. Bunnies bleed A LOT. Dont risk it

[vanessa]

It’s amazing what they can do in 2 seconds. They are really lightening quick.

[VeroAlmo]

Thanks everyone! I think, I really needed to hear that other ppl have had bucks unneutered that looked as friendly as these two. They have literally just like cozied up to one another so well that it gave me such great hope. So I guess the answer to my questions is I am being too optimistic/unrealistic and a bit delusional. I can always put more of a separater between Stewart’s house and the roaming temp pen in the living room so they are not as close. I have no ninja skills and average reflexes, my only defense was a duck taped ski glove and the swifter which luckily neither were needed. I 100% do not want Pepe on home number three and ideally I want them to live in one area so I certainly do not want a bad experience to form a grudge. We will keep you all posted. Gonna use the forum advice for NJ vet to go for the neutering. Xoxo and I will post more pics with the spacer between cages hopefully later tonight.

[Mikey]

Great! The great news is, since they are both calm, bonding them after hormones have drained should be a breeze. My Blue and Bombur took only a few days to a week to bond because their personalities clicked so well. Have hope for the future, but go at your bunnys’ pace

[vanessa]

🙂

[VeroAlmo]

Thanks but tonight was pretty rough. I think I spoiled them and in these short few days, I got them used to my silly bad behavior and now it is like punishing them. I placed the temp pen further and Pepe jumped over and out two times to reach Stewart. I got to him each time before contact and then I made the temp pen higher. Well he failed that jump and fell hard! Scared the bleep out of me!!! Stewart didn’t make this any easier with the gnawing at his flat grip clamp that keeps his cage door closed and then jumping between his two floors and standing to grab my attention for pick up. This stressed me out so I know they couldn’t have liked it at all. I held Pepe for a bit and then put him back in his respective corner. I held Stewart with the same hoody I held Pepe and am now drinking wine. Tomorrow I will move Pepe’s entire cage next to Stewart’s with a safe distance but today this mama is DONE!

Oh I also think tomorrow I will buy some stuffed animals to switch back and forth between them for smell goods stuffs!

Sidenote: I am so in love with Pepe!!!! Like, love LOVE! He has been with us 4 days and I just cannot even!

[VeroAlmo]

Cage distance and the messy apartment we now call home. When I get back from work I will fold the play pen and put away the tunnel and bunny bed and all that bunny bagged food, litter etc. Day 5 has begun.

Newbie at work…somehow posted the above message twice so I edited the second copy, the date and time stamp for this are now wrong lol.

Tips and pointers welcomed for the cages this was a quick fix. Thanks is advance! Also I think Pepe was free roam in his last house he hates this cage he came with.

[VeroAlmo]

Our boys will be neutered on the 16th! Nervous but excited! Also North Bergen vets (closest to us, one just 10 min away) are insanely priced, $600+ per bunny. We are going an hour away from home since it is like $220 per bunny there. All vet info including the one we chose were sourced from House Rabbit Society.

I really hope their personalities stay the same.

[Mikey]

Out of my three boys, all personalities changed, but in a good way. Blue was often terrified of everything and after being neutered, he calmed down a lot. Hes still nervous, but hes much more outgoing. Bombur became happier to the extreme after his neuter, and he is generally more friendly and trusting. Badger got much more confident and energetic after being neutered Your boys will be fine. Congrats on finding a vet sourced from the House Rabbit Society!

[vanessa]

Yeesh! I looked around and found a low cost clinic. I got a neuter for 50 and a spay for 75.

[drewpea]

Posted By Oakley and Boston’s Mama on 5/07/2017 7:51 AM

I have two boys – and I def would not risk this.
Mine are housed next to each other and they actually seem to really like each other and there is no stress at all. However the older one with a differnet bunny I attempted to have was a totally different story – very very stressed responses to the point they could not even be in same room.
Even though the older one is muxh better with this one than the other boy I attempted I would not risk them together unneutered.
Both mine will be neutered this month but I am unsure if I will bond them. Male rabbits CAN bond together – but male/male is also the most likely mix to fight to death. It’s not something to take lightly.
Not only can everything be completely fine in unneutered ( or even in neutered) unbonded- until a sudden attack- but you being there isn’t going to stop it nessasarily.
Bonding two bucks should only be attempted once both are neutered and had time for the hormones to be gone – but it should also be done in a neuter area not the area they both know – you will need something to seperate them in a real hurry too not your bare hands as rabbit fighting bites are very vicious – lops may look all cute and teddy bear like but a male who is hormonal and in a fight will do some serious damage whether your hand is in the way or not.

I actually couldn’t see the problem trying with two brothers from same litter – always been together – until the other day I saw two unneutered male baby lop brothers 3.5 months old the other day who have always been together – after a fight between the two- one now has a huge chunk out of his ear which will be like that for life and now they will likely never tolerate each other after that as they hold grudges. ( not my rabbits by the way ! )

*I would think of these things :
Am I prepared to risk a huge fight / high possibility of injuries ( neutered males are more likely to fight than male / female rabbits – unneutered ups that even higher but quite a lot) or possible death ?
*am I really prepared to handle it if a fight does break out? ( I recommend watching some YouTube videos of bonding rabbits failures / bad bonding sessions / rabbit fights to see what you need to be prepared for)
*am I prepared to house them in seperate rooms forever if they have a fight that they can’t get over ? Or to have to rehome one ( which it would be the 3rd home for Pepe by the sounds )

I think your taking too much risk even having them only have one lot of bars between them. They can do serious damage suddenly and quickly through that.

Hi O & B’s Mama! 

So would you say that even bucks from the same litter never separated should be penned independently, with prebonding before they are neutered and rebonded after the recovery time of the op??

Sorry to hijack just saw this and wondered what’s best! Pick up my brother bucks next month and struggling to decide what to do!

[vanessa]

Yes they should.

[VeroAlmo]

Tomorrow is our big day! So nervous!!! Everything must go well or I will feel guilty forever. The boys had kale and plenty of water and of course their typical pellets/hay. Our bags are packed and drop off is 8-9am. The vet is in Whitehouse NJ and I still have to go to work in NYC so tomorrow will be a long day for all of us.

Thanks Mikey for the personality heads up. As it stands today, Stewart is ppl shy and loves to be close but prefers not to be picked up and is a bit of a loner. Stewart is also very chill always lounging, daydreaming out the window and super super quiet. Now Pepe, he is a social butterfly and is a spoiled brat when it comes to cuddles. From his nonstop grunting to his love for hops and binks which include the worse landings ever (SPLATS!!!), he is madness! My hubby is hoping Pepe calms down after this for the noise factor alone (I love his bunny chaos).

p.s. Should I start a new topic in Bonding or keep this one going? I think it is helpful to keep this one going so ppl get the whole story but I don’t want to have the subject be misleading either.

[VeroAlmo]

So jealous! @ Vanessa

[vanessa]

You can change the subject title. I like using one continuous thread myself. Its like a journal. Thats what i do with lancelots health story.

[VeroAlmo]

Hi all,

Surgery went well yesterday Thanks be to God. Everybody pooped peed and has eaten/drank water. Someone by the name of Stewart peed in my car on the way home but I forgive him!!!

Anyhow, I am really concerned about pain or fever. So today the first day after surgery they both look a little moist on the ears and face. Like their fur is damp…They are not warm to the touch at all and they are acting normal, maybe lying down a bit more than normal. I gave them both a dose of the pain meds this am and the box says once a day so I am lost.

Also Stewart has a wet bottom and I am not sure why either.

Vets office is closed but I plan to call in the am.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Mikey]

Usually the surgery can drop their temps instead of giving them a fever. Have you been able to look at their wounds at all since being home? In 1/3rd of their cages, you can add a fleece blanket for warmth. On the other side of the cages, you can add an ice water bottle for cold. Leave the middle of the cage normal in case they are not overheating or too cold

Definitely ring the vet. Im not sure why their ears would be wet, unless one of them got into a water bowl

[VeroAlmo]

Thanks will try the fleece blanket I put a little bag of ice for both and neither went close to it. Only Stewart has a water bowl.

[BanditCamp]

Rabbits tend to not like direct cold, as its wet and cold, try wrapping the bag in a pillowcase or a blanket/sock/towel that they can lay on.

[Quartz]

Is it actual moisture or lubricant? I know the shelter near me that does spays/neuters on their rabbits lubricates their eyes prior to surgery, so the face can be a bit greasy for a few days afterwards (as the buns rub that stuff all over when cleaning later).

[vanessa]

Ditto on quartz. Anytime lancelot has anesthesia they lubricate his eyes.

[VeroAlmo]

Posted By Quartz on 5/18/2017 11:06 PM

Is it actual moisture or lubricant? I know the shelter near me that does spays/neuters on their rabbits lubricates their eyes prior to surgery, so the face can be a bit greasy for a few days afterwards (as the buns rub that stuff all over when cleaning later).

You are 100% correct, sorry I did not update you guys and yes it is an ointment for their eyes.

[VeroAlmo]

Also I am making a calendar for the countdown of days till they reunite! I may sing a lil Peaches and Herb on that day, hehehe. All jokes aside from my calculation they are good to say a in person hello starting from July 5th.

Currently I have stopped with the switching of litter pans and blankies during these few days of recovery post surgery. Figured I will let them just have their time to heal without going crazy over random smells but starting Monday the swap meet is in full effect.

I have also purchased them both a stuffed animal that I leave in the cage and have never swapped (Pepe Loves his – Stewart has literally stuffed his in the corner and never returned for a visit again).

So aside from the swapping of items and telling each boy how amazing the other is, what else should I do?

OMG! Weirdest thing, so they both do everything at the same time in the separate spaces! They are definitely in view to one another at all times (cages are about 14 or so inches apart). But if Pepe is grooming/cleaning himself Stewart is too, if Stewart is in the litter pan you bet Pepe is too and same for laying down on their belly for lounging, totally mirrored. So cute! I am hoping this is a good sign does anyone else with two not bonded bunnies notice they follow the same schedule as one another?

[VeroAlmo]

Okay so I could not wait till July 5th as i originally planned but it has been 4 weeks today since the neuter. One of my buns also had a stasis issue about a week or so ago but has been super chipper since then (thanks to everyone who sent the healing vibes our way).

Today, every boy seemed to be in a good mood so I made us an area in the hallway with my oven mitt, swifter and colander all ready for action. Well I am so HAPPY to report there was no need for any of it! My boys were all over each other in a good way, I think. So we started off with both taking turns humping, which worried me a bit but neither seemed to mind. They were literally like taking turns. Then they separated from one another both just laid there flat on their tums for like 7 minutes. Stewart got up suddenly which seemed to startle Pepe a bit but then Pepe hopped over to Stewart for some nose rubbing and sniffing. Stewart shook his head cleaned his face and hopped away, over my leg and went to the door of his cage so I secured him in and Pepe stayed in the hallway a bit longer before going to his cage for some hay. All in all I think this is more than awesome can’t wait to tell you about meeting number 2 post neuter.

For anyone with a neutered pair what did you specifically look for to confirm bonding is complete? I have read a bit but am worried I won’t know for sure and mess it up.

Also is it a bad idea to introduce toys while attempting to bond? Both really enjoy toys and like when I roll something back and forth to them but I am worried they will be more possessive/territorial over the toy even if neither own it. 

I really hope they bond 

[VeroAlmo]

Sorry your bond didn’t go so well and thanks for the advice to steer clear of triggers for territorial behavior. 

We read the same for post successful bonded pairs to have all things neutral. 

We plan on building a bigger C& C cage for both of them if they bond well so it is new to both, different layout same location of Stewart’s current cage but I am unsure if this is an issue. Side note, this is gonna be a fun build and if they bond we cannot wait and of course will share pics with everyone. 

So far if they are to share a home I am worried most about the litter boxes because Pepe is totally obsessed with his litter box. Like even when I try to clean it he needs to be distracted or he will hop in it so I cannot take it out lol. 

Drives me nuts when I am rushing for work in the am. 

[VeroAlmo]

Haha, that is a great idea!

This morning he and I had a stare down…2 lone cowboys in the living room, the bar doors swing open, the people are standing still…(insert whistle from The Bad and The Ugly here) then… I make my move, chucked some romaine heart pieces super far from him. He folded like a cheap suit.

[vanessa]

The picture looks good. They are both flopped and relaxed. What are their interactions with eachother? Do they mutually groom? Do they lie nest to eachother? That’s how I would tell if they are bonded. All good and no bad interactions. Start adding food and toys to their bonding area, and I would use 2 litterboxes at first. I’v read opposing things about adding food/toys/litter boxes. Personally – I would add them to get them used to sharing, before moving into their bonded space. How long are their bonding sessions? Once you can add food/toys/litter boxes, you can start leaving them for longer periods, and eventually overnight – in the bonding area. Once they can get along in that area 24/7, you could make it larger. but it looks like the hallway – which is a fixed size! Once they are ready for their fully bonded space – before you move them in together – give it a good clean, rearrange the furniture, don’t leave parts of it as “his” or “his”. Make it like a completely new space.
Hearing about the length of their bonding sessions and their interactions would be helpful – but it looks good from that picture.

[VeroAlmo]

Hi Vanessa – They were both laying down but Stewart (the black and white bun) is wayyy more cautious. So most times he sort of bows in front of Pepe (tan boy) or stays lower than him like sort of tucked under his chin. Also when they laid down if Pepe moved even a little Stewart popped up right away (not so relaxed) but then he would lay back down. 

Stewart is grooming Pepe only and Pepe when mounting sort of nibbles at Stewart’s back, seems more so to keep him in place. No lying next to each other aside from being like a foot or so apart like the photo. As far as adding items thanks for the tips and I agree before going into the shared space I will insert some toys and food to check they are okay with sharing. Today will be day 2 so I will not add anything tonight. Yesterday’s bonding session was like 20 minutes but they were mainly laying down like in this pic. The mounting nibbling and grooming only lasted for like 10 minutes. I know this is long as many people say a few minutes for the first interaction but they seemed to be doing so well I let them hang.

Tonight the goal is 10 minutes total depending on how they are interacting. I am going to try for a video but think to share it I may need to open like a YouTube account. Plus if it is just me I will not be able to record and break up any drama if required.

I think all the tips of swapping items between the two cages when they were separate is paying off. I also gave them each a plush animal and I switched those every week. With the plush animal it is so funny that they seem to be treating that plush toy the same as they are treating each other when face to face. Stewart’s plush toy for example he sort of leaves alone but will sit next to it on a occasion (rare) vs. Pepe will lay on his plush toy and at times drag it from one side to the other so it is always close to him. 

[vanessa]

All sounds good. I’d definitely start adding items, and increasing the amount of time they spend together. But if you see any aggression, go back to the last step that had no aggression. Even lying at that distance from eachother is good. They feel comfortable enough to flop and relax. “Ignoring” is good. Do they have a favorite fruit juice? If you need to encourage one or the other to groom – you could use a drop of fruit juice or squashed fruit on their heads to encourage grooming.

[VeroAlmo]

My buns have never had a juice but that is a neat idea. I will keep it in mind. Omw home now so the buns will have another go at all this very soon. I am so excited for them lol, sounds silly but I really want them to bond. This would make me feel less guilty when I leave them and head to work.

[vanessa]

It’s not silly at all! Everyone wants their buns to be happy 🙂

[VeroAlmo]

It has been a little over a week of full swing bonding and so far so good I am content with the process. 

So far I would say the boys are doing really well adjusting to one another. Stewart my black and white boy seems a bit jumpy but overall still flops so that is great. Zero fights to report  so this makes me extremely happy Our longest time letting them hangout together was maybe 30+ minutes, speaking of long… the vids are pretty lengthy but I could watch my buns all day so hope you enjoy.
I have also started to limit the amount of space to get closer to a cage size for them and I added both of their litters and bowls since they are doing so well . I feel like I am moving really fast but they seem so eager to be together. Once I walk in the house they start to nudge on their doors to come out.

This vid is sharing a bite of romaine together, excuse my sneeze! This scared our nervous bun Stewart made me laugh a lot tho. 

As always tips and views on how we are doing are welcome!

[Jack and Victor]

my two males are in the same cage and friends. How ever my two were bot together so they new each other from the pets at home store. When there Nads dropped there were fights and I separated them in till I got them both neutered and waited 6 weeks. after that they basically became best friends again. I sprayed down everything with a water/vinegar solution to get rid of the scents. How ever in your situation It may be possible after they have been for the chop and time given for the hormones to die down they may be able to become friends though it may take some time. But I would keep them separate and when trying to bond if you do try have two people and just stroke them together side by side for 10 mins a day then build it up. hope this helps

[VeroAlmo]

Thanks for the advice my boys are neutered and have been hanging quite often now at least for 10-15 minutes a day. Sometimes longer… Love that your two are roomies…

[Deleted User]

They are both such gorgeous bunnies!!

[vanessa]

Looks good. If continue to increase the time.

[VeroAlmo]

I know, I know it’s been months now. Fell off on my forum updates but happy to say our boys are bonded and sharing a space!!! We plan to build them a new home soon because we feel like they could use a bit more space. They really love the bottom portion of their house so we want them to have more room down there. Below are some pics and things we learned during our bun’s bonding. 

The most important rule …Pepe is the boss! Pepe is super affectionate and always first to approach the humans of this home for a cuddle and some attention. Now we assumed this would translate into the same for the bunny relationship but it turns out Pepe is a demanding diva of our other bun Stewart. See evidence below of how Pepe must always be on top for play time

Next thing we learned is what works one day may not work the next. These buns started to favor and use one litter box so we assumed they only needed one litter box (Hint: Never ever insert or try something new during bonding without being fully prepared to watch the interactions for the entire day). So with one litter box all was well in the world for the first few hours and then…Pepe started grunting at Stewart while he was in the litter box, which is not nice. Stewart being the submissive bun he is, exited the litter box but stared at Pepe the whole time after he took over. Pepe must have taken too long (see pic below). Good measure to note, our buns never had a “fight” but in these little quarrels, we (humans) said okay this (insert change), it’s a confrontation starter – no litter box sharing. In their shared home there are two litter boxes and from time to time they swap but one litter box is not ideal for these guys:

 

Full honesty bonding takes hours of supervision and pretending/attempting to be a bunny whisperer and understanding where your buns are setting boundaries or saying this enough for us today. On some days Stewart in particular would cancel a bunny bonding session before we even started. 

I used a particular blanket and the same toys (toys, were introduced later into the bonding sessions) and whenever we had a bonding session in our mutual space (the hallway). I would start each session by letting one bun out at a time, always Stewart first. Some times after opening Stewart’s cage he would hop out and once he hit the hallway and saw the setup with the toys and blanket he would run right back to his cage. This was my alert that today is not a good day for Stewart and on those days I would take the plush toys they have and swap them into the other buns house. So the smell of the other bun is near but not all the personality. They really love their seals (Stewart with his Pepe scented seal):

Thanks for the advice and amazing posts that helped us with ideas like the plush toy swaps, the mutual space, the do’s and don’ts for sharing and of course the advice for neutering before bonding. Our boys in their shared space having breakfast :

THANKS AGAIN!

 

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