Bonding not going anywhere…?

[RowlyAndRalphie]

Hey everyone,

So I’m a new bunny owner and want to make sure I’m doing my best for my buns 🙂

I got Ralphie and Rolland in January and the two, unfortunately started fighting pretty badly a few days before they were due to get neutered.
The fighting was so bad Ralphie ended up screaming but the two came apart by themselves. I kept them separate for a few weeks after they were neutered and I’m now trying to reintroduce them to one another.heres an account of what’s happened so far and I would appreciate some advice/guidance on where to go next!

Day 1:
Put the buns in a puppy crate (open at top) and the two instantly went for each other. I sprayed them with water each time they faught and this broke it up. After a few fights, Ralphie became quite stressed whereas Rolly didn’t seem interested anymore so I decided to end the session for Ralphies sake.

Day 2:
Put Ralphie in the crate while I went to fetch Rolly and he instantly became incredibly stressed even without Rollys presence! due to this I decided to relocate the bonding sessions to the bath.

I put Ralphie in the bath first, then Rolly. Every time Rolly went near Ralphie, Ralphie stomped and ran away. Eventually Rolly got bored and decided to flop over and have a sleep…. Ralphie remained stressed the whole time even though Rolly wasn’t doing anything!

Day 3:
Back in the bath. Within five minutes Rolly was having a lie down but Ralphie was still stressed. After a little while Rolly went over to Ralphie to ask him for a clean but Ralphie ignored him (still panting and looking pretty stressed). Rolly occasionally pulled at Ralphies fur (not biting his skin directly, just eating his fur!?). Rolly remained super chilled the entire time and eventually stopped being interested in ralphie.

What is happening!? Everything I’ve read about bonding day to expect mounting and chasing and some fights and fur flying but none of this seems to be happening for me and I’m not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing! Do you think Ralphie will settle down and stop being so stressed and scared of Rolly?

Look forward to hearing from someone 🙂

Kate xx

[sarahthegemini]

Tbh I would stop putting them together for a while, give Ralphie a chance to forget that Rolly is a threat. Then do some pre bonding.

[RowlyAndRalphie]

Hi I was wondering that too! Ralphie has just spent every session absolutely terrified but as soon as he’s out of the pen/bath he’s absolutely fine…!

[DanaNM]

I agree with Sarah. Definitely do more prebonding (swap their cages every day or two, feed them at the same time, near each other, give them stuffed animals that have each other’s scents on them, etc). I read somewhere “never underestimate the power of living peacefully side by side”. Especially since they truly fought before, it will take longer for them to realize the other is not a threat.

It does sounds like the bath was better than the crate, but the space might be too small. And also three dates is barely anything….

When one bunny is scared and there are fights, many recommend a larger space, to allow them to get away from each other, and then come together on their own terms.

So, if I were you, I would do another week or two at least of pre-bonding, then try another very short date in a neutral, larger space (maybe your full bathroom). Make sure there are not any spots where one can get cornered (like behind the toilet). Start very short (like 30 sec – 1 min), and do not wait for them to fight or scuffle.

I had a bond fail between a very scared bun and another bun, and I learned that I pushed things too much. It is very important to take things very very slowly, and allow them to get to know each other in a gradual way. Stressing isn’t good when the stress influences the bunnies unequally!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[RowlyAndRalphie]

Thanks for the advice! I’ll definitely do some more prebonding for a couple of weeks. Ralphie and Rolland have had their cages side by side for the last few nights – the first night Ralphie was NOT happy and I was woken up a few times by his stomping around! But last night he was pretty happy to lie on the shelf next to where Rolly was also lying on his shelf 🙂 baby steps in the right direction!

I’ve been alternating them between hutch time and run time – id like them to have the run of the lounge. So when one is out and about, the other is in the larger cage that I have. When Ralphie is out, he seems to be interested in Rolly and goes up to the cage to have a sniff but if Rolly moves too quickly, Ralphie runs away.

Obviously it’s different depending on the bunny, but how long can bonding take? I’ve been told conflicting things. Firstly I was told two males are unlikely to bond and will probably fight in the future..? Then I was told if the bunnies haven’t bonding after a week to ten days it won’t work and I should give up 🙁 but I really don’t want to do that!

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By RowlyAndRalphie on 4/15/2017 1:21 AM

Thanks for the advice! I’ll definitely do some more prebonding for a couple of weeks. Ralphie and Rolland have had their cages side by side for the last few nights – the first night Ralphie was NOT happy and I was woken up a few times by his stomping around! But last night he was pretty happy to lie on the shelf next to where Rolly was also lying on his shelf 🙂 baby steps in the right direction!

I’ve been alternating them between hutch time and run time – id like them to have the run of the lounge. So when one is out and about, the other is in the larger cage that I have. When Ralphie is out, he seems to be interested in Rolly and goes up to the cage to have a sniff but if Rolly moves too quickly, Ralphie runs away.

Obviously it’s different depending on the bunny, but how long can bonding take? I’ve been told conflicting things. Firstly I was told two males are unlikely to bond and will probably fight in the future..? Then I was told if the bunnies haven’t bonding after a week to ten days it won’t work and I should give up 🙁 but I really don’t want to do that!

Baby steps indeed but great that it’s in the right direction! 

Bonding really does vary, for some it can take months and months whereas some have a love at first sight scenario. I opted for the marathon bonding method with my two and I would say after two weeks they were officially bonded. They were actually okay with each other right from the start but I monitored them 24/7 for two weeks to be really sure.

[RowlyAndRalphie]

Thanks Sarah. Can I ask what the marathon bonding method is? 🙂

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By RowlyAndRalphie on 4/15/2017 5:54 AM

Thanks Sarah. Can I ask what the marathon bonding method is? 🙂

Of course Marathon bonding is basically putting the buns together and just…never separating them. It doesn’t work for every pair but it worked well with mine as they had a sort of love at first sight meeting. I mean within half an hour, my girl was flopped right next to my boy and he had groomed her then bunny loafed  It’s really intense because you have to watch them 24/7 until you’re confident that they are bonded. I was lucky because my bf had time off work so we took it in turns to watch them and still get sleep lol. If either bun is stressed out tho it won’t work as stress obviously leads to its own problems! 

[RowlyAndRalphie]

Ah I see! Thanks for explaining!

Yeah I don’t think Ralphie would be best pleased at that haha! My boyfriend is also currently away at sea as he’s in the merchant navy so I don’t have someone to watch them 24/7, although I work from home a lot anyway so I can spend lots of time with them 🙂

Rolly is currently in the living room and Ralphie is in the hallway with half of the puppy crate in the doorway to separate them. Rolly hasn’t left the doorway all morning at all bless him. He clearly wants to be Ralphies friend!! Every now and then Ralphie builds up the courage to go and sniff Rolly but runs away as soon as Rolly moves. Hopefully he will realise in the next few days Rolly is through his teenage years and won’t bite him anymore for no reason!!

[RowlyAndRalphie]

So we made some unexpected progress yesterday!

I kept the bunnies in separate rooms all day which were separated by the dog crate. Rolly stayed next to the crate pretty much all day and Ralphie gradually built up the courage to go have a sniff of Rolly. The had a few nose to nose meetings which sometimes went well and sometimes led to Rolly having a little nip of Ralphie.

At about 3pm Ralphie flopped out near the bars of the crate with maybe a foot in between. Then gradually over the course of the day he moved closer and closer to Rolly. In the evening Ralphie gave Rolly the most adorable and gentle lick through the bars!!

Because they did so well I thought I would try one last bonding session with them to see how it went.. and thankfully it went incredibly well! Ralphie spent the first ten mins pretty stressed but Rolly started grooming him and I kept telling him how good he was doing and coz he’s a massive attention seeker he kept licking Ralphie like mad and then coming up to me for a fuss and then going back to lick. Ralphie seemed to relax quite a bit and then they shared a piece of broccoli! 🙂 🙂

Later on I saw Ralphie grooming Rolly 🙂

Do you think I should keep going with this now? 🙂

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By RowlyAndRalphie on 4/16/2017 12:50 AM

So we made some unexpected progress yesterday!

I kept the bunnies in separate rooms all day which were separated by the dog crate. Rolly stayed next to the crate pretty much all day and Ralphie gradually built up the courage to go have a sniff of Rolly. The had a few nose to nose meetings which sometimes went well and sometimes led to Rolly having a little nip of Ralphie.

At about 3pm Ralphie flopped out near the bars of the crate with maybe a foot in between. Then gradually over the course of the day he moved closer and closer to Rolly. In the evening Ralphie gave Rolly the most adorable and gentle lick through the bars!!

Because they did so well I thought I would try one last bonding session with them to see how it went.. and thankfully it went incredibly well! Ralphie spent the first ten mins pretty stressed but Rolly started grooming him and I kept telling him how good he was doing and coz he’s a massive attention seeker he kept licking Ralphie like mad and then coming up to me for a fuss and then going back to lick. Ralphie seemed to relax quite a bit and then they shared a piece of broccoli! 🙂 🙂

Later on I saw Ralphie grooming Rolly 🙂

Do you think I should keep going with this now? 🙂

The nipping isn’t too concerning, I’m pretty sure my boy nipped my girl through the bars a few times. 

Woah, I wasn’t expecting that, that’s brilliant progress, I’m so pleased!  I would say continue with what you’re doing then as it’s obviously encouraged a change in the bunnies behaviour for the better. Maybe they don’t see eachother as a threat now? Just be careful not too move too quickly with excitement  

[RowlyAndRalphie]

I know! It was a total shock haha! I did a one hour session with them today which ended with Ralphie flopping out beside Rolly 🙂 I thought I would end it on a positive note and try again later this afternoon 🙂 shall keep you updated!!

[sarahthegemini]

Ah that’s great And yes please do! Would love to hear about your/their whole journey

[RowlyAndRalphie]

I swear these bunnies have some sort of multiple personality disorder ?? Spent the last ten minutes chasing each other and now they’re both flopped out!?

Rolly keeps pulling Ralphies fur which Ralphie allows to a certain extent but then gets upset and grunts and runs away which usually leads to the chasing. Should I intervene when this fur pulling and chasing happens or should I let them figure it out?

[RowlyAndRalphie]

Hello!

So the bunnies have done reeeeeeally well today. They’ve been together in the pen for four hours. I made the pen a bit bigger and put in a little tray full of hay, a water bowl and a couple of toys. The both enjoyed a little play together and then munched on some hay side by side 🙂 now they’re both having a lie down, think Rolly is pretty much fast asleep haha

Just wondering where I should go next? Shall I just keep making the pen bigger? How do I introduce their hutches to them? Shall I perhaps bring the hutch into the pen? Not sure if that’s a bad idea though?

[sarahthegemini]

That’s awesome It’s always a good sign when they are happy to share food. I would keep doing daily sessions for a week or so just to be sure they’re really happy with the current set up. Then you can deep clean the area that will be their residence and put them there but supervise them 24/7 for a couple of days. 

[RowlyAndRalphie]

Great! Thanks so much for all the advice and support! I’d have been so stressed without it ?

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