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Forum DIET & CARE Upper Respiratory Infection Outcome/Tips/Experiences?

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    • Shiver_Rose
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        My rabbit has had an upper respiratory infection for six days now.  I noticed an abnormality in her breathing last Sunday.  Since then I’ve taken her to two different vets (traveled a distance for the one) and called almost every veterinarian I can find in my county and the next over for advice.  

        I hear different and conflicting opinions from different doctors.  

        I was just wondering if any members have had any experience with this type of issue?  Of course I hope for the best but I’m really concerned that I’m going to lose my bun.  What can one expect as an outcome in this type of situation?  Is there a high rate of mortality for this illness?

        I took her to the first vet Monday.  The doctor I saw on Monday gave her two injections-one of baytril and one of flocillin and told me that if she didn’t improve she would have to be seen again the next day.  He said that one of the injections was supposed to last 24 hours and that the other would last for 48 but the paperwork I went home with does not specify which was which.  At this time (Monday) she also had a high fever.  The next day, I found a vet who seemed to know more about small animals (who my aunt highly recommended) and took her to him.  He perscribed ciprofloxacin by mouth (liquid form) twice a day for 7-10 days.  She was diagnosed with a normal temp at that time and the fever had subsided.  He told me that this problem was somewhat common in rabbits, not critical, and he told me to give it 7-10 days and then come back if she is still exhibiting symptoms.  He gave her a dose of the ciprofloxacin in his office then sent me home with instructions to begin administering it myself the next day.

        The next morning…magic happened.  Her breathing was completely back to normal.  But of course I continued with the antibiotics until further notice.  

        Friday her breathing was abnormal again.  I called the same doctor’s office, gave them an update, and asked to speak to the doctor.  The stupid receptionist began asking me questions over the phone attempting to diagnose her herself and I later found out that she had given the doctor misinformation.  I did not tell her that things were going well, all I stated was that there was a minor improvement in her eating habits in that she had begun consuming more hay.  She said that she would deliver the message to the doctor and that he would call me back “if he was concerned.”  I waited all day Friday and received no call from the Vet.  That brings me to today (Saturday.)  I called again in the morning and this time I was told that the doctor I had seen would not be in until Monday.  I spoke with another receptionist/assistant and found out that the woman I had spoken to had delivered a false report and told the doctor that the rabbit had improved!!  The woman I spoke with today said that she was personally upset to hear that this had happened and that the doctor was given incorrect information.  (I mean this is truly appalling.)  The only doctor on call today does not even treat rabbits so I was directed elsewhere for advice.  I spoke with another veterinarian who is highly recommended in my circle of friends/family and he insisted that she could wait until Monday and that I would be best advised to contact the doctor who had last treated her.  I was told that this issue could be chronic and doesn’t necessarily need immediate care, and that I could wait until Monday.

        All of this time she has been acting completely normal and energetic, behaviorally.  She is very feisty when we give her her meds and when I take her out she hops all around as usual.  But of course she is a prey animal so she masks her symptoms for her protection.  She has only been eating hay, and drinking half of the water that she usually does.  Stool is soft and moist, although at least she is passing her bowels and urinating.  The main symptom she is having is a very rapid breathing exhibited by a fast expanding and contracting of her sides.  One can visibly see that she is not breathing normally.

        What seems evident to me is that the combination of treatments from the two doctors seemed to be helpful, given the rapid improvement on Wednesday, but I suspect that the second doctor is not being aggressive enough in his treatment.

        I am unsure what to expect.  I anticipate having to spend a fortune to save her.  I am curious as to how she even developed this illness in the first place but could not get a definitive answer from the veterinarian.  All he said was that rabbits are very sensitive to irritants in their environment.

        Saying prayers, hoping for the best.

         


      • LBJ10
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          If she is eating, pooping, peeing, then I (personally) would not consider it an emergency. If the other vet said to wait until Monday, then I would wait until Monday. Are you still giving the ciprofloxacin then? It’s on the “safe” list. The problem with antibiotics is that they can take a long time to work. And then there is always the possibility that a particular antibiotic isn’t very effective to whatever bacterial is causing the problem. So it’s often a long waiting game to see if the antibiotics appear to be working and then trying a different one if improvement doesn’t happen in a couple of weeks.

          To answer your question about the injections, it was likely the penicillin (flocillin) that they said would last 48 hours. They will often give injections of that every other day. A single shot of each would most likely not be successful in eliminating the bacteria causing the infection though.


        • Shiver_Rose
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            Ty for the advice. Yes I am still giving her the ciprofloxacin. I’m glad to hear that sometimes it is simply a matter of more time or finding the right antibiotic. That gives me hope that it’s not necessarily as serious as I thought it might be. She is still eating. But it seems like she’s eating only hay. It’s hard to tell because she’s begun a new habit of burying her food at the bottom of her cage. I will know for sure when I clean her cage today. Was going to clean it last night but was out of latex gloves. Fyi to all rabbit/cat/pet owners using gloves to clean litter boxes and cages is always a good idea. My aunt once got a nasty infection and had to have surgery on her hand from cleaning a litter box.


          • Shiver_Rose
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              Cynthia is doing better.  We finally ran the right tests and she’s starting a new antibiotic today.  I think this one will finally do the trick.  ****Update coming soon.


            • LittlePuffyTail
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                ((((((Vibes for a Full Recovery)))))


              • LBJ10
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                  Thank you for updating! Yes, sometimes it’s a guessing game. Most vets don’t resort to doing a culture until after the typical broad spectrum antibiotics have been tried. Hopefully this new antibiotic will do the trick.


                • Shiver_Rose
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                    Thank you Little Puffy Tail 🙂

                    Yeah, we went through a lot of different antibiotics!

                    So I have a question, while she’s recovering, does anyone know if it’s okay to burn incense with the window open and the apartment well ventilated? I live in a rather small apartment, and I burn incense regularly pretty much every day and I was just wondering if that was okay for her while undergoing this infection or in general. I know their respiratory systems are pretty sensitive.

                    Also curious about administering the medication.  I was wondering if it’s better for one or two people to do it?  I know it’s better to do on a high surface because that gives me the advantage over her, instinctively, but I don’t feel comfortable putting her on a high surface without someone else there to block her from jumping away.  Of course, I wrap her in a towel and make a “bunny burrito” but she still sometimes figures out how to wriggle out of this.  I don’t want her to catch on to the process and become difficult to handle and give meds to.  Up until now I’ve been doing it with another person, but having someone come over to help me with this twice a day is becoming quite the inconvenience.  If I can, I’d rather do it myself, with her on the floor.  I’ve done it some odd times and it’s worked out okay but she’s been a little more difficult to handle when it’s just me handling her on a low surface and giving her the meds.

                    Ps. I know there were threads about giving meds and force feeding recently.  If there are any existing threads that would be helpful on this topic please refer or link me to them.  Thanks.  I couldn’t find them.


                  • vanessa
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                      There are diferent things you could try. If there are fruits that she absolutely loves, try putting her meds in a small piece of fruit. I don’t use high surfaces. I get on the ground with my bunnies. Some of them get meds sitting facing the same direction as me, I hold their chest/chin, and apply the syringe. I usually suck in a litle applejuice to the syringe to get them interested. The more wriggly ones get the burrito. Lancelot just gets held like a baby. But sometimes he’ll take it sitting if I add apple juice. If I’m sure he will eat his piece of fruit in one sitting, I’ll put the meds in fruit. But if he is going through periods of “now I only want to eat this or that”, then I dont’ use fruit.


                    • Shiver_Rose
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                        Posted By vanessa on 5/22/2017 9:00 PM

                        There are diferent things you could try. If there are fruits that she absolutely loves, try putting her meds in a small piece of fruit. I don’t use high surfaces. I get on the ground with my bunnies. Some of them get meds sitting facing the same direction as me, I hold their chest/chin, and apply the syringe. I usually suck in a litle applejuice to the syringe to get them interested. The more wriggly ones get the burrito. Lancelot just gets held like a baby. But sometimes he’ll take it sitting if I add apple juice. If I’m sure he will eat his piece of fruit in one sitting, I’ll put the meds in fruit. But if he is going through periods of “now I only want to eat this or that”, then I dont’ use fruit.

                        Thanks for the input.  I will try those suggestions.  Again, I don’t know why it put my answer in a box when I quoted you lol I can’t get the reply to work properly lol


                      • Wick & Fable
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                          Hey Shiver_Rose! I understand your anxiety and worry over uncertainty. I received Wick at 9wo, and at 10wo, he was taken to a vet for some really crazy sneezing. The following is Wick’s timeline:

                          1st (10wo): Since URIs are kind of common in rabbits from the area Wick is from (breeders don’t have a good rep in the county), we proceeded as a URI. Rather than getting a culture, we tried a broad-spectrum, with the thought that if it doesn’t work, we’ll try another. Then another, until we get the right one. Usually it takes about 1 to 3 tries for Wick’s vet to get the right medication. The first was Bactrim, given orally via syringe, twice a day. Additionally, Wick got probiotic to eat (powder sprinkled on lettuce for him) twice a day so his tummy wouldn’t feel bad after lots of antibiotics.

                          2nd (1w later): Re-examination found no real improvement, but Bactrim and probiotic was re-sticked and continued since it may take longer to see improvements. Dosage tweaked for weight gain.

                          3rd (2w later): Re-examination found no real improvement. Bactrim stopped and switched to Baytril. Baytril given twice a day, given orally via syringe. Probiotic re-stocked and continued.

                          — 3.5 (weekly until 4th vet appt.): Drop into the office to re-stock on Baytril, then leave. Rabbit not seen.

                          4th (5w later): Re-examination done with small improvement. Baytril and probiotic re-stocked and continued. Critical Care provided due to Wick being underweight. Critical care given every day, twice a day, with as many syringes as Wick was willing to eat (4-7 per sitting).

                          5th (2w later): Re-examination done with small improvement. Baytril and probiotic re-stocked and continued. Critical Care stopped since weight was healthy now. Started injections of flocillin (**flocillin is the long lasting one). Injection dosage started at x1/day (lasted 4 days), then changed to x1 every 3 days due to drastic improvements in health. Baytril dosage tweaked for weight gain.

                          6th (2w later): Re-examination done with major improvement. Baytril, probiotic, and flocillin re-stocked and continued. Molars shaved due to long length, which may have perpetuated the URI because of the stress it put on Wick’s immune system. Critical care given at the end of operation = 2 syringes.

                          7th (2w later): Re-examination done with major improvement. Baytril re-stocked in bulk for 2 weeks, probiotic re-stocked and continued, flocillin continued.

                          (5w later — that’s today!): No vet visit, but weekly phone calls since the 7th vet visit. The decision was to use up the rest of the medication given, so Wick has been officially off all medications for the past week and is sneeze free, minus allergy sneezes from going head-first into dusty hay.

                          Medication administration:

                          Oral syringe: I did it on my own. I sat on the floor, feet under bottom style, and put Wick in front of me, so his bottom was against my knees. This prevents him from going backwards. I get a gentle grip on his neck area (not choking, but between the jaw bone and shoulder bones). This will do a good job minimizing squirming and forward jumps. Don’t expect the rabbit to be 100% still and don’t force the rabbit to be that way, or it may hurt the rabbit. I use my other hand to get the syringe gently towards the mouth. I usually touch the syringe to the front teeth, then gently slide it over to get the teeth gap. I depress the plunger steadily and pet vigorously once it’s done. I always followed up anitbiotic doses with Wick’s feeding time, so there’s a good association.

                          Injections: If you ever need to start the flocillin injections, this is from a previous post I made, so Wick’s age is out of date, but aside from that, still applicable:

                          Wick is a runt Netherland dwarf, also at 3 months, so he is very small. I use my left-hand (dominant) for the needle, and right-hand to grasp the ideal “skin tent”. I recommend not having the needle in your hand until you establish a good stick location. To identify the location, with my right-hand (non-dominant), I place 2 middle fingers at the under belly and my thumb near his spine. I pull my middle fingers up towards my thumb, while pressing my thumb towards the middle fingers a bit as well. When I pull up with this motion (like a pinch & pull), I get a small skin tent. With Wick being skinny, my fingers are usually always pulling fur, which consequently pulls up his skin (it doesn’t seem to hurt him though; very small pull). Rabbits are furry, so their skin is difficult to see (are you sticking skin or fur?). I brush the fur in the opposite direction at the potential sticking site so I can see where the skin begins. I also use a finger to poke at the tent I’ve pulled up. Wick’s stick sites are usually a bit closer to his spine than the ground, but it definitely hovers the half-way point.

                          Once I have the tent established and I have a good idea of where the skin actually is, I stick the needle through the tent’s entrance (not at the ground of the tent or at the very top, but right in the center of the tent’s entrance). My vet specifically stated to stick parallel to the muscle, meaning my needle is usually parallel to the floor. Large angles of entry (sticking perpendicular or at any angle) is only required if you’re trying to target something deep in the skin. Since the shot is as superficial as it can be, the angle of entry should be as close to 0degrees, as compared to the muscle, as possible. It makes it a bit less nerve-wracking, because if I know I’m 1) parallel to the back muscles and 2) sticking above the back muscles, there’s no way my needle will collide.

                          This is where I’m not sure the anatomy of rabbit skin vs. human skin, but with humans, the longer you linger on the top layers of the skin, the longer it hurts and more likely to bruise/sore. Once I’m ready to stick, press the needle in— once you know it’s in, don’t hesitate and push the plunger to expel the penicillin. Again, only the skin needs to be penetrated, so I don’t need to stick too far. Once I’m done, I withdraw the needle (same angle as I entered; angle of entry/exit should match), have one finger ready to push down slightly on where the needle exits, and while I’m putting the needle down somewhere safe, I use my non-dominant hand to gently massage/rub the area around the injection.

                          ………. To help alleviate symptoms, I began doing a much better job at dusting around the living room and not giving Wick hay from the bottom of the bags (usually only dust). I have a stock of small hand towels reserved for Wick-nose-clean-use-only, and these get sprayed with water and used to wipe his nose when the discharge was too much for Wick to handle. Never use the same towel twice, and make sure they’re always clean. I would spray one towel corner, wipe, then dry wipe with the opposite corner of the towel. That towel would be done, then I’d use a new one if an additional wipe was needed.

                          It probably helped with bonding in general, but I always say Bless You to Wick, just out of habit. It seems sneezing isn’t the primary symptom for your rabbit though? Not sure based on your post. Wick sneezed at least 3 times every minute pretty much. When I say bless you, I also give him a small pat-pet, so he’s comforted. I imagine sneezing 24/7, every minute is very uncomfortable, so I do what I can.

                          It should be noted that Wick’s infection was really persistent. I won’t get into the microbiology of the bacteria, but essentially the bacteria put up a good fight. Usually, antibiotic treatment works faster than it did for Wick.

                          The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                        • Shiver_Rose
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                            ****Update:

                            Here’s the hap’s since April.  Cynthia has been medically cleared and is doing great.  She is as happy and hoppy as ever and full of energy.  Please try to learn from my story if you can, it might save you a whole lot of money!

                            Disclaimer: SOME RABBITS NATURALLY PANT AND BREATH SUPER FAST.  I did not think so myself but I have now learned it’s 100 % true.  Not to downplay snuffles cuz it is a very real and serious illness but this type of breathing does sometimes occur naturally.  I learned this the hard way.

                            So I took Cynthia to three different vets.  I finally ended up taking her to an exotics specialist who came highly recommended, studied and earned her college degrees at Yale, and has been featured on Animal Planet.  The first veterinarian, not being an exotics specialist was completely incompetent.  The second veterinarian, also a referral, wasn’t too much better.  The third and final veterinarian came recommended by another veterinary office .  Through being pushy and asking a lot of questions, a local veterinarian’s receptionist finally referred me to the woman her “crazy rabbit lady” friend uses (hey…it was her words not mine

                            I went to this exotics vet about 3 or 4 times.  First we tried penicillin shots every other day for two weeks and it did nothing.  (This was after the first vet who had her on Baytril and Flocilin and the second vet who had her on something else which I can’t remember.)  Then this veterinarian did a nasal culture and found that some bacteria grew from it so it was concluded that she might have something infectious.  Finally we tried a fourth and final antibiotic twice a day for a month and still nothing.  So I went back and she took x-rays of the lungs and most of the body.  This was done because I was told she could either have pneumonia or a growth on her heart (next to her lungs) that was hindering breathing.  Nothing was found.

                            The vet finally told me (after hundreds of dollars and after 5 or 6 vet visits) that this could be her natural way of breathing, particularly if she was nervous.  I probably spent a total of $1,000 dollars!!!! literally to find this out between the vet visits and antibiotics, treatments, tests, and x-rays.  And I don’t have that kind of money.  I put most of it on Care Credit, a medical credit card company which is just *excellent* and I am still paying it off.  I would not have been able to do it without care credit, I would have been screwed.  Most vets accept care credit if you’re ever in a jam like me.

                            That’s it.  That’s the conclusion… Some rabbits breath super fast and it looks almost like a dog panting.  Wish the veterinarians would have known this sooner.  I might have more money in my wallet but hey, what can you do.  At least my baby is medically cleared, 100 % healthy, and safe and sound <3 so I'm happy about that.

                            Imagine my sense of regret and frustration when I walked into the pet shop (this is a very reputable store that I’ve been going to for a decade and a half now) and saw a perfectly healthy bunny breathing just the same way!!  *Ugh*  So hopefully this story might save people some money and a whole lot of time/energy/worrying.  

                            Look at me I’m expensive 

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                        Forum DIET & CARE Upper Respiratory Infection Outcome/Tips/Experiences?