Oh my, it’s been a while! (But also some not great news)

[RetroSquid]

Well, It’s been a while. Almost two years since I last posted.

I’m pretty sure my last post was the evening after the wee one was born. Life has been utter madness since!
But, as it’s been so long, I thought I’d re-introduce myself.

So, hi again from all of us!

Me, Louise, Hannah
Link, Navi, Daisy
Aryll, Pixie and Bubblegum!!

It’s always some kind of news that brings me back it seems.

I’m not sure if y’all remember, but our bun Link (Binker) suffered through the loss of an eye back in 2014 following losing a bonded companion then thinking he had lost a second bonded companion (He didn’t recognise Navi after she had to have surgery)

He lost his eye just to a stress induced E.Cuniculi flair up.

Anyway, fast forward to a couple of weeks ago and we noticed what we thought was diarrhoea in their enclosure. Upon closer inspection it was piles and piles of uneaten cecotropes. Now, Link has had issues with his back end a lot over the past couple of years. He doesn’t tolerate veggies very well and he has been at the vets a few times last year, and they weren’t worried as long as we had found how to manage it through diet, so we initially put it down to more of the same.

I noticed shortly after that his face was no longer symmetrical. I know that sounds odd considering he only has one eye, but his mouth always had symmetry, so, back to the vets again.

He’s always so interested in the phone/camera, but you can see the side of his mouth (His left) just sits a little higher than the right.

Speaking with the vet, we came to the conclusion that the E.Cuniculi that is already in his brain may have affected the facial nerve causing this slight facial paralysis and we also found poo and uneaten food in his cheek (than’s to the paralysis, he isn’t able to clear it out)

So, we had a rough diagnosis and have come away to keep an eye on him. On further inspection, I’ve noticed it’s the entire left side of his head, including his ear that simply doesn’t move or respond in any way. (With the exception of his third eyelid (the Nictitating membrane) still works for a blink)

So, we have another appointment with the vet first thing in the morning to discuss Link’s long-term prognosis. As this paralysis is on his sighted side, we’re worried about how any atrophy on that side might affect his only eye. He’s still happy enough, bounces out to see us, loves strokes and generally just seems happy.

Oh, we discovered the source of the piles of cecotropes. Because he’s now paralysed on his sighted side, that’s the way he turns to eat them, he just isn’t able to get them. So we’re also concerned about how this inability to eat them might affect his digestive health too. 

He’s been through the wars and at only 4, he isn’t having much luck at all.

Bonus picture of Hannah Summer, she’s utterly amazing. Mental but amazing (And nearly two!! )

[jerseygirl]

Hey there RetroSquid! Gosh, I was thinking of you and Ouisie the other day!
Hannah is adorable!! Is she really almost 2?!

Its good to see Link again also. <3
I hope this latest development didn’t impact him too badly. He may learn to make some adjustments. Will he take his caecotrophs if picked up in a tissue and put in front of his face?

My rabbit, Gooseman, also has asymmetrical face due to permanent spasm on one side. He also leaves a lot of caecotrophs but I never made the connection before that it could be to do with his face. Mmm…
He’s always overproduced on and off throughout his life though, so it’s hard to tell with him!

Could Link have some arthritis or stiffness in the spine factoring in also?

[Bam]

Hi Retrosquid! I absolutely remember Link and how great he did with his eye surgery. We often refer members with bunny eye-problems to his story.
Hannah Summer is as cute as a button!

I’m sorry to hear about Link’s facial paralysis. It does seem likely that it’s the EC again. It can happen with an ear infection or traumatic injury as well, but in Link’s case EC obviously seems the most likely culprit. Is he getting repeat courses of Panacur(fenbendazole)?
I don’t have any personal experience with facial paresis, but Jersey has and LBJ10. (currently on vacation though). They will of course see this thread.

ETA: Haha, Jersey has already seen the thread

[RetroSquid]

Jerseygirl, he’s never left them before. I had a spell in hospital a couple of weeks ago, and at some point between then and us getting back into a proper routine, he had just started leaving lots around the enclosure.

Considering it’s the entirety of the left side of his head, and because of the luck we have (I had a stroke in 2013, Ouisie’s father had a stroke last year and now Link) we’re thinking it might not necessarily be the E.Cuniculi, either. At this point, it’s just guessing, really. He doesn’t appear to have any stiffness to his spine, either. And him leaving a mess has literally started at the same time as him having complete left-hand-side facial paralysis, so, 2+2=… :/

Bam, I was actually only looking through some of my YouTube uploads the other day and spotting Link 3-days post surgery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLmdilHvDG8&list=FLyDSSjzx9hzz2exRG6XxNTA&index=3

He’s definitely been through the wars.

We’re basically to give him a 28 day course of Panacur and then a typical 9 day dose every 28 days after that. But as I said above, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d had a wee stroke considering our family seem to be having them left, right, and centre this past few years.

But, either EC or a stroke, he’s in the same boat, really. We’re just worried about the long term issues this could cause for his only eye.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Hi, and welcome back! Wow, 2 years already? Time flies. Seems like not that long ago you were posting here.

I’m sorry to hear Link is having more issues. Sending along some ((((Vibes for Link))))

Your little girl is adorable! They grow up way too fast, don’t they! 2 is such a fun age. My little Everly is already 2 1/2.

[RetroSquid]

So, not long back from the vets again. Been given Metacam now to give him twice a day and we’re to just continue with the panacure indefinitely.

We’re to go back in four weeks (Our usual vet is away for a few weeks, he’s back in four weeks) for a checkup, but we’ve been asked to keep a close close eye on him and if he crashes suddenly and stops eating and other such terrible warning signs, we should prepare ourselves for saying goodbye to him.

We don’t want to put him through all the hell Zelda went through before he died and the months of suffering Link went through around the loss of his eye.

We seem to be at a point where he’s okay just now, but there’s not really anything we can truly do if he deteriorates…

[vanessa]

I’m sorry that sounds so tragic. I hate EC. I hate it just as much as I hate Cancer. My little guy (Lancelot) has EC, but no facial paresis. He has weak limbs and incontinence. I also do monthly panacur, but I recently started adding toltrazuril to the panacur. I’m interested to hear that you have been doing 9-days once a month. I was doing 9 days twice a year, but I change my mind very quickly to 9 days 4 times a year, and now 5 days once a month. I think it sounds very reasonable to put him on long term panacur at this point. That horrible parasite just keeps on doing damage. I wish there were a way to reverse the damage. I am trying Gamma Linolenic Acid (based on studies I read), but I keep reading that once the damage is done, it is irreversible. Makes sense – seen as the protozoa causes cell rupture. It would almost take a stem cell treatment for the body to regenerate all those cells.
I’m glad to hear he is still feeling spunky and happy.
Lancelot is deaf and blind. His vision got noticeably worse after the first and second bout of EC. He has large cataracts over both eyes. They adapt very well to physical limitations. He sniffs to find his way around, he knows when I’m in the room and does the Stevie Wonder head sway while sniffing the air and blindly stumbling everywhere trying to find me. To let him know that I have put veggies/treats in his salad/treat bowl, I put my hand on his face for forward, and I touch his left/right ear to steer him left/right. He has become pretty good at reading my “steering signals”. In order not to confuse him, when I am just petting him, not steering him, I start with his body and then work my way up to his head. But if I start with his head/face, it means I’m about to steer him. He has learned what I’m doing pretty well. Other than that, I make sure to keep his items/bowls/furniture in the same spot so he always knows where his stuff is, and I keep the center of the room clear of bunny-jungle-gym-obstacles.
I hope Link keeps his remaining eye.
Hannah is really cute. I always like hearing about people’s toddlers. I’m expecting a girl myself, in June 🙂

[jerseygirl]

Posted By RetroSquid on 3/17/2017 5:49 AM

So, not long back from the vets again. Been given Metacam now to give him twice a day and we’re to just continue with the panacure indefinitely.

We’re to go back in four weeks (Our usual vet is away for a few weeks, he’s back in four weeks) for a checkup, but we’ve been asked to keep a close close eye on him and if he crashes suddenly and stops eating and other such terrible warning signs, we should prepare ourselves for saying goodbye to him.

We don’t want to put him through all the hell Zelda went through before he died and the months of suffering Link went through around the loss of his eye.

We seem to be at a point where he’s okay just now, but there’s not really anything we can truly do if he deteriorates…

Are they suggesting regular blood tests if he is on panacur long term? Metacam should hopefully keep inflammation down. Did he cope okay with Metacam in the past? 

[vanessa]

Good point jerseygirl. If he can be on long term panacur – why not more Metacam? I haven’t heard of long term Metacam.

[LBJ10]

Hi RetroSquid! I’m just now seeing this. I just got back.

Facial paralysis is tricky. Wooly has a problem, but it’s due to a tooth root problem. He has trouble manipulating things in his mouth (had a willow incident not too long ago because of it) and he doesn’t always eat his cecals.

Does Link have any nasal congestion or is it purely paralysis? If it’s purely paralysis, then I would suspect EC and that it’s cause inflammation of the associated nerves there. If there is some nasal congestion, then it could be bacterial (either a primary or secondary infection). Wooly deals with frequent secondary infections so he gets antibiotics every now and then. If the swelling is bad, then he’ll often get Metacam as well.

Anyway, it might not hurt to do antibiotics in conjunction with the Panacur. It might be something to ask about. The Metacam was a good move. It can often help some. Unfortunately, I think in situations like this that the facial paralysis often becomes a permanent thing. Wooly will always has facial paralysis to some extent. I just try to manage it as best I can. He has adapted fairly well and I just do a few things to help him (sanitary shaves, no willow, smaller veggie pieces, etc.). Oddly, he never seems to have an issue with hay.

[Bam]

Long term Metacam is quite common for elderly buns with arthritis, you start with a higher dose, then gradually lower it until you find the smallest effective dose (Molly Varga said this in a webinar on care of elderly rabbits).

Medirabbit says Metacam is often well tolerated by bunnies for long term use. It is however contra indicated in animals with disturbed renal function, and EC can cause damage to the kidneys. Blood test can be done to determine renal function.

(I remember that lovely video of Link jumping up on the sofa! Perfect aim in spite of having had one eye removed only days before!)

[LBJ10]

Yes, there was a study somewhere regarding long-term use of Metacam in rabbits. Where did that go? It was an interesting article.

[LBJ10]

Oh, that was the “Oxbow study”, wasn’t it?

[Bam]

Had to look at my notes, LBJ, it wasn’t Molly Varga but Livia Benato. It was a TheRabbitVet- webbinar though, M Varga is another one of the rabbit vets. Benato didn’t however mention a study. http://therabbitvet.com/webinar/common-medical-conditions-in-the-older-rabbit

Medirabbit says “Long-term use appears to cause little adverse effects in rabbits
Should not be used in rabbits suffering from liver or kidney failure” http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Analgesics/safe_analgesics.htm

[LBJ10]

Oh wait, the Oxbow study was the one that said long-term use does not cause liver damage/failure. It didn’t say anything about kidneys. I do know other studies found that long-term use in rabbits is much safer than in dogs and cats.

[jerseygirl]

I believe Dr Benato might be the vet that did Links surgery.

The blood work I mentioned earlier were to monitor use of fenbendazole as it can have some adverse effects.

{{{Link}}}

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