Bonding Stress

[Aaron]

I have two buns: Sebastian and Juliet. I wanted to bond them this weekend and through next week, but Sebastian just got over GI Stasis. Should I bond them, or will the stress cause a relapse. They have seen each other from cages, and she just pranced around and made a few noises, and he once tried to lick her nose (she wasn’t too happy with this) and he really tries to get to her. He also poops when ever he smells her scent. 

[Mikey]

“He also poops when ever he smells her scent.” Do not bond them while this is happening. Are they both neutered/spayed?

[Aaron]

yes, both are spayed and neutered. I really need to start bonding this weekend too

[Azerane]

Stress is one of the causes of GI stasis and it would probably be best to wait another week just to be sure he’s well recovered from it.

Have you done any pre-bonding? Swapping cages, toys, blankets or belongings? If he seems desperate to get to her, it may not be for positive reasons.

[sarahthegemini]

I would wait a few weeks to make sure Sebastian has fully recovered from gi stasis. Bonding is very stressful. He’s probably feeling stressed already if he feels the need to poop wherever he smells her.

[Aaron]

I called the vet and she gave me the OK to start bonding today. He has been eating for a full week and has pretty much recovered. I have swapped toys for a couple days, and she doesn’t mind, but he rubs his chin on everything. When he smells her scent, he poops. I really need to start this today.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Aaron on 2/11/2017 8:07 AM

I called the vet and she gave me the OK to start bonding today. He has been eating for a full week and has pretty much recovered. I have swapped toys for a couple days, and she doesn’t mind, but he rubs his chin on everything. When he smells her scent, he poops. I really need to start this today.

Well okay, but personally I’d still wait a little longer …

[Mikey]

You dont need to. You want to. You can easily damage their bonding if you start too early, and in the long run that is not worth it. Your rabbits could harm one another, and in a worst case one could kill the other. You dont need to bond them early, you want to.

With that, your male is very territorial which can very quickly turn into extreme aggression. You should be working more on prebonding. You should be swapping their cages every other day for atleast a month. Let him get his scent on everything, let him poop mark, and after every swap he will slowly start to care less and less. Only when he stops marking everything should you try to bond them in a neutral area where neither bun has ever had access to

Since you dont want to wait, stop all signs of aggression. Stop biting as soon as you think a bite is incoming. Stop mounting after 10 seconds. Do not allow any chasing. If there is circling, stop it immediately. Stop lunging before it happens

[sarahthegemini]

Mikey has a lot of valuable knowledge on bonding so it would be wise to listen and wait a while longer. But if you’re set on bonding now, how are you going to start? Short sessions or marathon style?

[Aaron]

I just finished a stress bonding session on the washing machine. She did not do anything, while he mounted on her. I did that for 10 minutes and then returned them. I will do another session tonight. No fights really, no noticable biting.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Aaron on 2/11/2017 12:57 PM

I just finished a stress bonding session on the washing machine. She did not do anything, while he mounted on her. I did that for 10 minutes and then returned them. I will do another session tonight. No fights really, no noticable biting.

So you specifically did a stress bonding session, even though it’s not wise to stress out your recently-recovered-from-gi stasis bunny? 

[Aaron]

yes, i know, it wasn’t very wise, and I just finished a bathtub session a minute ago, so it is aboyt 3-4 hours in between. This session went ok, he mounted her and nipped at her back a few times, but…………….she flopped down! The vet told me to do this bonding and if he shows any signs of relapse to call her.

[sarahthegemini]

I don’t think you’re taking things very seriously…I hope all goes well but having a bun that has just recovered from something potentially life threatening AND add to that the fact you have done barely any pre-bonding techniques…

[Aaron]

I have switched toys and litter boxes for the past week. He has been on his probiotic and his motility drug for a week, and I called the vet and SHE said it was ok to bond them now.

[Mikey]

A week is not enough to share scents. The minimum is a month, not a week. If he is nipping often, find a way to get him to stop. A nip or two every hour or two is safe, any more than that is trying to test the waters, which can lead to full on bites which is always a big NO. Please think of your rabbits needs instead of your wants. Bonding is only successful if the rabbits are ready for it, and your vet cant tell you that

How did the bath tub session go?

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Aaron on 2/11/2017 4:50 PM

I have switched toys and litter boxes for the past week. He has been on his probiotic and his motility drug for a week, and I called the vet and SHE said it was ok to bond them now.

I thought you originally said you switched toys for a couple of days? Apologies if I’m wrong, but even so, a week isn’t very long. I appreciate that your vet said it was okay but there are bonding experts on here (not including myself in that, I’m no expert!) that understand rabbit behaviour. I don’t understand why you asked for advice if you’re going to completely disregard it.

Again, I hope it all goes well but I think you’re playing with fire.

[Aaron]

The tub was alright. He tried to mount her and nipped at her back a few times. I would spray him with a mist from a bottle and settled disputes with a dust pan (there werent many). She flopped in the corner. Full on flop. He pooped a bit and peed. No full on fights, she would just run if he looked like he would nip. My vet is very rabbit savvy and she knows. How am I playing with fire?

[Mikey]

If she is running when he nips, he likely isnt nipping but biting. Has he pulled any fur? If he has, please check over your female to make sure her skin is alright. Rabbits skin is very thin and delicate, and in turn can rip and flake very easily. Both can be dangerous to a buns health

Keep trying to help with your males territory issue. He shouldnt be marking as much as he is. How long have they both been fixed?

[Aaron]

he has been fixed for over a year, and she was fixed 3 weeks ago.

[Aaron]

I understand he is a bit territorial, are there any tips for helping him stopping it?

[Mikey]

Stop bonding them. Your male is acting out because she still leaking hormonal smells. As her hormones drain, her scent will change making her smell like a completely new rabbit. Right now he is acting out to get her attention as he recognizes her hormonal scent, but when her scent changes and he no longer recognizes her, he will very likely attack her because in his eyes she will be a completely new rabbit he has never met before. It can take up to six months for a female buns hormones to be completely drains and until then, although she is not acting out, your male is and will. This is how you are playing with fire

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Aaron on 2/11/2017 7:17 PM

The tub was alright. He tried to mount her and nipped at her back a few times. I would spray him with a mist from a bottle and settled disputes with a dust pan (there werent many). She flopped in the corner. Full on flop. He pooped a bit and peed. No full on fights, she would just run if he looked like he would nip. My vet is very rabbit savvy and she knows. How am I playing with fire?

I’ve already explained why – because your male is only (very recently) recovered from stasis which can be caused by stress and by not doing enough pre bonding.

[Aaron]

Day 2 of bathtub session: He passed a lot of cecals while with her, and urinated. She did nothing except run and stomped when he came near her. Nothing much really happened in terms of fighting or mounting. I am just worried he is going to be sick again from the stress. I do admit, I should have waited longer for him to recover more, and the vet said I could renew his meds at any time. Should I continue bonding?

[Aaron]

Mikey, I am not an adult. I am a teen living with my parents. Juliet is living in my family room for now, but my mom really wants her to be bonded so she can move into my room. I tried explaining it to her that bonding is a long process, but she wants her out of the room.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Aaron on 2/12/2017 3:54 PM

Day 2 of bathtub session: He passed a lot of cecals while with her, and urinated. She did nothing except run and stomped when he came near her. Nothing much really happened in terms of fighting or mounting. I am just worried he is going to be sick again from the stress. I do admit, I should have waited longer for him to recover more, and the vet said I could renew his meds at any time. Should I continue bonding?

Quite simply, no.

[Aaron]

Mom listened to me finally! I am going to switch there living quarters tonight and see hownthat goes.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Aaron on 2/12/2017 4:53 PM

Mom listened to me finally! I am going to switch there living quarters tonight and see hownthat goes.

Glad to hear it! It’ll be better in the long term to go at the bunny’s pace

[Aaron]

Ok, just placed them in each others cage. I am going to do this for the night and then switch in the morning. She is reacting very nicely: she is binkying and playing with his toys. Him on the other hand, is rubbing his chin on EVERYTHING in her area: every toy, her hideout, her fencing. He is also pooping a ton and is spraying pee. But she is so happy! I am going to be doing this cage switching for a while until I decide to introduce them again.

[Mikey]

Posted By Aaron on 2/12/2017 4:53 PM

Mom listened to me finally! I am going to switch there living quarters tonight and see hownthat goes.

Huzzah! You can always show your mom this forum and let her look around a bit if she doesnt believe you/the effort that goes into a bonded pair

Glad your girl loves the switch up and doesnt seem to care about sharing things. Hopefully with a little more switching around and a little more time for hormones to drain from your females scent, your male will be able to calm down as well 

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Aaron on 2/12/2017 7:51 PM

Ok, just placed them in each others cage. I am going to do this for the night and then switch in the morning. She is reacting very nicely: she is binkying and playing with his toys. Him on the other hand, is rubbing his chin on EVERYTHING in her area: every toy, her hideout, her fencing. He is also pooping a ton and is spraying pee. But she is so happy! I am going to be doing this cage switching for a while until I decide to introduce them again.

I think that’s very wise!

[Aaron]

Day 2: Juliet binkied like a wild woman last night, all night! And she flopped 4 times. He pooped all over trying to get his scent on everything of hers. When should I switch the back to their normal cages? And are there any tips to help with Sebastians territorial issues?

[sarahthegemini]

When I was swapping my bunny’s living quarters, I did it every few days, sometimes even weekly, but neither of mine were territorial. I would say swap yours daily. If they are being moved regularly it might stop them (or Sebastian in particular) feeling so territorial.

[Mikey]

Timing doesnt entirely matter with swapping, just every other day or every few days. Thats adorable Juliet is so happy The swapping should help with Sebastians territory issues, but it might be a slow go because he is still spraying and marking. Go at his pace. When he starts to calm down and is only marking maybe once or less a day, that is when bonding can start

[Aaron]

I will give daily updates. I would like to thank you two: Sarah and Mikey. You guys have given me valuable advice about bonding and stress. As you can see I am absolutely no expert. You made me feel more empathy for my rabbits. How would I feel if I was put into a tub with a complete stranger? Thanks you two!

[Mikey]

Glad to be of help I look forward to the daily updates! Sounds like your little lady will warm up quick to your little guy once his territorial issues calm down. Always a good sign

[Aaron]

She flopped again when I got home from classes. I have decided to switch them every 2 days. He hasn’t pooped as much as yesterday, but still is spraying some urine. How can I send a picture?

[Bam]

Here’s a pictorial about how to upload pix:
https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/144934/Default.aspx

Or you can upload pix to an external source like Flickr or imgur and paste the link here.

[Aaron]

I have decided to switch cages every 2 days. So this afternoon he will be going in his own cage and she will go to her pen in the family room. Next switch is for Thursday afternoon for them to not be in their regular areas. I haven’t noticed him poop marking as much as he did yesterday, but he is still spraying a bit of pee. She could care less about his scent which is a large step to a positive outcome.

[Aaron]

I forgot to mention that I included a stuffed animal for her. It was an untouched dog toy. She loves to groom it, and she doesn’t chew it.

[Mikey]

Her and your male are going to be so adorable together once they are bonded!

[Aaron]

is there a way to upload a pic from a phone, update coming soon too

[Aaron]

Update:
I placed them rabbits in their regular cages after spending 2 days in each others cage. Juliet seems fine with him being in there before. He is reacting rather nicely than I expected. He is still rubbing his chin and claiming everything, but as far as I know he hasn’t sprayed any pee, and has only pooped in and around the litter box which has Juliet’s poop and pee for him to get used too. The next cage switch is Thursday afternoon. When should I stop cage switching? What should I look for?

[Vienna Blue in France]

Hi Aaron, I’ve been following your posts….

Don’t stop the cage swapping. It should be constant now until bonding begins and until they are bonded.

I would continue cage swapping (without bonding attempts) every 2 days until Juliet is AT LEAST 2 months post spay.
She will be physically healed (a spay is a very intrustive operation) and hormones will be easing off a bit….

Any earlier and you’ll be forcing a result too earlier and possibly putting in jeopardy their future bond.

I can hear the excitement in your words to get it done quickly but really, patience IS the name of the game!

And it will be worth the wait.
Some bonds are relatively simple
Some are excruciatingly hard.
It is NOT a guaranteed outcome… so please go slow and listen to the advice on here.

There’s nothing that we all want more than to see a picture of your two bonded buns

[sarahthegemini]

Absolutely ^ ^ Me and Vienna had very different bonding experiences (you can look through my thread on bonding Peanut and Buttercup, and Vienna’s mammoth thread about Zou and Henry) and you’ll see just how different it can be. It is crucial that you don’t rush, and you go at the bunny’s pace.

[Vienna Blue in France]

…and Vienna’s mammoth thread about Zou and Henry

yes, maybe get a cup of tea / long coffee and sit down before you start reading it…. although I was able to get ‘professional’ help when it wasn’t going right….

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Vienna Blue in France on 2/14/2017 4:49 PM

…and Vienna’s mammoth thread about Zou and Henry

yes, maybe get a cup of tea / long coffee and sit down before you start reading it…. although I was able to get ‘professional’ help when it wasn’t going right….

It is an  interesting one though! 

[Aaron]

Update: Sebastian has sprayed a tiny bit of pee on the newspaper by the litter box. Again, Juliet could care less about him being in her area for 2 days. Fortunately, as you may know, he has had GI Stasis a couple weeks ago. He has recovered great and is eating and drinking like a mad man! I am off from school for the next 3 days, so I can monitor both of them closely. He is using the litter box she has used.

[Mikey]

Yay for the recovery! Glad he is starting to calm down on the spraying and marking too. All great signs

[Aaron]

Ok, I have a dilemma. My mom said again that she wants her out of the family room and that we should start bonding them. I tried to tell her again. Is there a way to do this bonding since they have smelled each other for a couple days?

[Mikey]

A couple of days is not long enough. You need to do the swapping for atleast a month. Have your mom read this post and/or ask her to make an account so she can post her own questions so we can help clear the air about bonding

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Aaron on 2/15/2017 7:40 PM

Ok, I have a dilemma. My mom said again that she wants her out of the family room and that we should start bonding them. I tried to tell her again. Is there a way to do this bonding since they have smelled each other for a couple days?

Okay I need to ask, why did your Mum agree to having another bunny if she so desperately wants it ‘out of the way’? Is she really that insistent that she’s willing to risk injury to both bunnies by forcing them to bond before they’re ready? 

Quitesimply, if you attempt to bond before doing sufficient pre-bonding, they may well attack each other. Which is a little more inconvenient than having to keep one in the family room for a little while…

[Aaron]

I think she thinks that you can just throw two bunnies together and they will get along. I will try again to explain this who bonding thing to her/

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Aaron on 2/16/2017 7:27 AM

I think she thinks that you can just throw two bunnies together and they will get along. I will try again to explain this who bonding thing to her/

All she has to do is search: bonding bunnies, and she’ll see that you cannot just lump two rabbits together and hope for the best. 

[Mikey]

You can also show her this post, if you dont think she will get mad at you

[Aaron]

Now my dad is on me! I said to him that with Juliet getting spayed a few weeks ago, Sebastian can still notice her diminishing hormones, which is playing a role in the bonding process. He said that she cannot be in our family room for as long as she should be with the cage switching. I said it should be for about a month and he looked at me like I had 4 heads. He asked me if it was possible if I could put Sebastian his cage, that Juliet is in now during the cage switch. (They both will eventually live in Sebastians large cage). He is still rubbing his chin on everything of hers, and he sprayed a lot of pee today, and is still spot pooping a bit. Any suggestions for this? They were extremely serious about this.

[Love4Bunny]

Hi Aaron, I’ve just read up on this post and that’s tough that you don’t have your parents permission or the space to bond.

Suggestions:

– Print out concise bonding steps and advice from several sources relating to the issues you’re having and physically give it to your parents.

– Is there a siblings room you can use (if you have siblings?)

– Did you parents specify WHY exactly they want the space freed up? Maybe show them pictures of other people’s experiences/ bunnies (as in, injuries) when they didn’t bond correctly, because THAT is the reality for buns who are not ready to bond, you know? It’s such a temperamental and stressful time for both bunnies and humans, and you could try to explain that a cage in the room for a bit longer than expected is ALWAYS preferred over an injured bunny (or two!). It can often be financially stressful to deal with an injured bunny (the meds are the cheapest part of the deal – it’s the X-rays and tests and surgeries from injuries that cost the most).

[sarahthegemini]

What do your parents plan to do if bonding goes wrong then? Are they okay with the idea that one or both buns could end up seriously injured? Because if so, wow.

Why do they want her out of the family room so bad?

[Aaron]

Juliet just did something strange. I went to pull out her sheet that she likes to tug on, and she ran really fast at me and scratched. I did it again and she bit me, not hard, but it did hurt. Did she do that because I was in her space and that was her sheet that she claimed? She would run in circles around me when I would pull it out.

[Aaron]

I just did it again, and she ran around me, and then binkied! What the heck!

[Love4Bunny]

Yes, it sounds likely she is annoyed. I was told that sometimes those binkies are really a bunny speaking up for themselves (flexing muscle) when it’s directed at another rabbit. My rabbits sometimes “binky” when they know I’m approaching them to stop them from chewing the carpet behind the door. Thor does it time and again. It literally looks like he’s saying, “Don’t tell me what to do!”.

[Mikey]

Sounds a bit territorial. Her hormones may have started the post spay craze, meaning for about a week she may be cranky, mean, and territorial. It is essential you do not bond them at all this week, aside from swapping cages

[Aaron]

She kept chewing at the sheet this morning and when ever I would pull it out, she would run super fast, I think she was a bit territorial. She was spayed in early February, would her hormones still be coming out?

[Love4Bunny]

Early Feb? Yes, I think so. Took Thor a whole month to stop humping the dogs.

[Mikey]

For females it can take up to six months for hormones to be fully drained and to stop having hormonal craze weeks

[Aaron]

My parents don’t get it! I try explaining this to them that she still has her post spay hormones and that is what is causing him to be very dominant over her. They said that I should put both of them in the large cage that I have been swapping them out for about a week and see how that goes. I would have a spray bottle and dust pan. My dad specifically said “let them work out their differences”. I looked at him if he had 4 heads. Rabbits don’t hold meetings! They are dominant. What should I do?

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Aaron on 2/18/2017 9:28 AM

My parents don’t get it! I try explaining this to them that she still has her post spay hormones and that is what is causing him to be very dominant over her. They said that I should put both of them in the large cage that I have been swapping them out for about a week and see how that goes. I would have a spray bottle and dust pan. My dad specifically said “let them work out their differences”. I looked at him if he had 4 heads. Rabbits don’t hold meetings! They are dominant. What should I do?

Tell them that’s a great plan if you don’t mind the inconvenience of two dead rabbits!! Why do they think they know better? I really feel for you Aaron, it’s clear you want the best for your rabbits and you’re stuck trying to please parents that won’t listen. Have you asked them to read up on bonding? The whole “let them work it out” is how serious injury and death occur. 

[Mikey]

Posted By Aaron on 2/18/2017 9:28 AM

My parents don’t get it! I try explaining this to them that she still has her post spay hormones and that is what is causing him to be very dominant over her. They said that I should put both of them in the large cage that I have been swapping them out for about a week and see how that goes. I would have a spray bottle and dust pan. My dad specifically said “let them work out their differences”. I looked at him if he had 4 heads. Rabbits don’t hold meetings! They are dominant. What should I do?

I mean, sometimes that works, but you would need to be there for atleast 48 hours no sleep (or your parents would need to stay up and watch) while they are in there together. After the 48 hour force marathon, you would have to sleep next to them the next couple of days so you can wake up when they fight. Through all of this, youll need to stop all signs of aggression aside from mounting. Stop chasing, stop biting, stop lunging, stop nipping, ect. Youll likely get in the middle of several fights which will result in you getting beat up, hopefully more than the bunnies get beat up. If after the first 48 hours of you being there, no sleep, they still keep fighting, the bond will likely never work as theyre now focused on hurting one another, and will likely hold grudges. Meaning permanent solo bunnies that will not bond. If they do work it out in those 48 hours, the next week with you sleeping with them and rarely leaving their side will determine if they are or are not bonded. During this week, if they continue to calm down, even if slowly, you will have to stay by their side until they go 48 hours without any aggression. Once they do, theyll be considered bonded although likely not yet cemented

This tactic has worked for some people, but it depends heavily on the rabbits personalities. Right now, it would be very dangerous for your rabbits given your males high territory issues, and your females hormonal craze phase. It is dangerous because they can seriously injure one another, seriously injure you, one can kill the other, stress can kill them, and/or, on the best note, they refuse to bond so you have two single rabbits forever. The good outcome possibility, they will be forced, under a lot of stress, to work it all out RIGHT NOW. The bond should be cemented in a week or few, assuming they overcome the negative possibilities. Now, is it really worth it? For your pair, right now, it is not. The risks outweigh the possible bond, especially since your parents do not want two single rabbits in different rooms, and because you are still in school and cannot actually take  the week or two off to sit with your rabbits 24/7. The stress of it all could also send your male back into stasis

Here is a question that should be asked now, given that you are doing all you can do and your parents are not listening/understanding: would you and your family consider giving up one of the rabbits to a no kill rabbit shelter? If your parents would rather the rabbits die than work through bonding at a slow pace, it might be safest for one rabbit to go to a shelter where they do not have to risk death

[Aaron]

What should I do?

[sarahthegemini]

Well your options seem to be:
-Risk bonding too early, which can lead to fighting (and ultimately unsuccessful bonding
-Convince your parents to bloody listen and not be so pig headed (sorry)
-Rehome the one that’s in the family room, ‘in the way’

It would seem your parents aren’t going to change their thoughts, so either risk bonding or rehome the bun. Although if you try bonding before they (the rabbits) are ready, and they fight, it will be on your shoulders (or your parents specifically) Not trying to be mean but it is what it is.

Honestly though if they (parents) cannot grasp the concept of bonding, and they refuse to listen to you when you’ve done so much research, I would probably opt for re homing as they are not very supportive.

[sarahthegemini]

Is your room big enough to house both bunnies at separate ends?

[Mikey]

Your options are:
> Put them both in your room but on opposite sides
> Force bond for a week+ (your parents have to be willing to stay up all night for a few days, you have to be willing to sleep on the floor for roughly two+ weeks, you and your parents have to be ready to pay a lot in vet bills if something goes wrong, ect)
> Wait atleast another month to start bonding (best option)
> Rehome your newest rabbit to avoid risk of injury or death since your parents refuse to understand

[Aaron]

Well, I am not rehoming her for a fact, I have placed her in my room in her usual pen about 2 feet from him, so they can see each other but cannot get to one another. He is spot pooping all over. I have almost no room left in my room, but I care more about my little guy and gal. Is 2 feet enough? How would I do the force bonding, I may consider it.

[Aaron]

Update: Withen minutes, Sebastian flopped against his cage near hers. He got up, and spread his legs, with his back and butt to her. He was ignoring her I think! I gave them some lettuce by the ends of the cages and both are eating, not a care about the other 2 feet away. He has stopped pooping. Is all this good?

[Azerane]

Force bonding, or marathon bonding as I know it is basically just setting them up in a pen, I think usually with nothing but a bit of hay and water and just having them under constant supervision for minimum 3 whole days and nights (or more depending on how it goes). You need to be there with gloves and a dustpan to prevent any real fighting, but you also need to let them mount and chase and work out their differences. It can be stressful and is very tiring, and is not for everyone but is one method used. The slow and steady method is probably better for avoiding stress and major setbacks, but marathon bonding can work. Here’s one example here of a trio marathon bond on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7QOKF5lDXU

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Aaron on 2/18/2017 6:24 PM

Well, I am not rehoming her for a fact, I have placed her in my room in her usual pen about 2 feet from him, so they can see each other but cannot get to one another. He is spot pooping all over. I have almost no room left in my room, but I care more about my little guy and gal. Is 2 feet enough? How would I do the force bonding, I may consider it.

I marathon bonded my two and even though it was an easy bond, it was still two weeks of constant supervision. My boyfriend had 2 weeks off work so we literally took turns sleeping so there was always one set of eyes on the bunnies. 

As I said, my bond was easy BUT I waited a month and a couple days after my boy was neutered  (my doe was spayed a week and a half before my boy) and I did pre-bonding techniques  (switching cages, swapping toys, blankets and litter etc) as soon as I separated them which was a week prior to Buttercup’s spay. Basically, I did pre-bonding for around 7 weeks. Neither of mine were territorial either. 

[Aaron]

Is all of what happened above good!

[Aaron]

There was supposed to be a ? at the end. 🙂

[Aaron]

Should I do a bathtub session?

[sarahthegemini]

You’ve been advised to not risk bonding so soon but if you want too, well that’s on you.

[Aaron]

Ok, I wont do one for a while

[Aaron]

Could I start Marathon bonding now? Do I have to wait like I am doing? What are the basics of marathon bonding?

[sarahthegemini]

You are refusing to listen to the advice given here. You have not done sufficient pre-bonding, and marathon bonding itself can be very stressful which could send your boy back into stasis. What do you want us to say?

[Mikey]

Youre still in school, marathon bonding is not a smart idea. You will be up for atleast 3 days with absolutely no sleep. I highly doubt your parents would be willing to stay up one night each to help you out. Even with that, you will need to sleep right next to them (not across the room) for atleast 2 weeks after that to stop any possible fights. If youre smart, youll continue with the cage swapping for a full month like youve already been told

It is painfully obvious that you are not going to listen about the safety for your rabbits, just like your parents. Do what you want to do. If one dies, goes back into stasis, or gets severly hurt, well, youve already been warned

[Aaron]

It is painfully obvious that you are not going to listen about the safety for your rabbits, just like your parents. Do what you want to do. If one dies, goes back into stasis, or gets severly hurt, well, youve already been warned

Now I feel like crap, thanks Mikey! I feel like the worst owner. I have her in my room, and they can see each other, but cannot get to each other. I am trying to listen to you! I am doing the cage switching! This is hard for me as well as the rabbits. I am extremely worried about their safety, I am only [age edited out by Forum Leader due to Forum Rules] too! I am not an expert! I am continuing for the cage switching for 1 month, on March 12 is when it has been a full month. They can see each other from different cages too. Prebonding is what I am doing now, and will continue for 1+ months. I am sorry for disturbing everyone here. I feel like an idiot. 🙁

[sarahthegemini]

With all due respect, you have been advised over and over to wait to begin bonding for all the reasons listed above. You have refused to take our advice and decided to begin bonding anyway. Then you seem to ‘forget’ what advice you’ve been given (and ignored) and you ask the same thing again. What do you want to hear?

[Aaron]

I have not put them together since last week. I haven’t bonded them yet. I am working on the prebonding, which is what you told me to do! i am switching cages, litter boxes, toys, etc, what else do you want me to do! Her hormones are decreasing, that is playing a big role in this too! is all this my fault??????

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Aaron on 2/19/2017 12:23 PM

I have not put them together since last week. I haven’t bonded them yet. I am working on the prebonding, which is what you told me to do! i am switching cages, litter boxes, toys, etc, what else do you want me to do! Her hormones are decreasing, that is playing a big role in this too! is all this my fault??????

When you started this thread, you were warned not to start bonding. You then proceeded with bonding in the bath tub I believe. Not too long ago (previous page possibly?) you asked if you should try bath tub bonding again. And now you’re asking if you can start marathon bonding. You have been told the same advice multiple times. No to bonding. Continue with pre-bonding for at least a month. You don’t seem willing to accept that. 

If you continue to ignore the advice and do more bonding sessions before the bunnies are ready, then yes whatever happens will be your fault. Sorry but it’s true. You’ve been told the risks. If you choose to proceed, then as said before, that’s on your shoulders. 

[Aaron]

I am asking all the bonding questions for the long run, so I don’t have to ask later. I want to be prepared for what could happen, or what I will need to do bonding wise. That is why. As I said, prebonding at least until March 12, and then i will see where they are at. I accept that fully.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Aaron on 2/19/2017 12:30 PM

I am asking all the bonding questions for the long run, so I don’t have to ask later. I want to be prepared for what could happen, or what I will need to do bonding wise. That is why. As I said, prebonding at least until March 12, and then i will see where they are at. I accept that fully.

You’re not asking questions about the bonding process tho, you’re asking if you can start bonding now. Despite being told otherwise several times. 

[Aaron]

My parents want to, not me! I am asking on their behalf!

[Rookie]

Aaron…please take a moment and read your thread from start to finish. I think in the stress of it all you just keep spinning your thoughts and wheels. Take the time and read the thread from post one please and look t it with our eyes. Many people here would jump in front of a car for our bunnies and I am sure you would too. Which is why if you read your thread and look at it all at once you will see the concerns of the people on here.

You are in a tough position being so young, in school and with parents that just don’t get it. But that’s why all the people are trying to help you as best they can but you’ll see reading your thread that you being a teen about this…in one ear out the other….can I bond?- No! “okay i’m going to do it…oh no it didn’t work..told you so so, you have to wait…okay I will wait….can I start now? no…. okay how about now….?

you do not want any dead or injured bunnies on your conscience.

[Aaron]

Rookie, thanks for that, I really needed that. That opened my eyes more. I would jump in front of a car for my two, and I am sure you would for Rookie. I have been so anxious to get to bonding, that I need to take my rabbits lives into consideration a lot more. I didn’t even realize it, I have been too caught up in all this. I can tell that I am definitely a minor.

[Rookie]

it’s not easy with parents who do not understand. Keep the buns in your room for now and keep doing the cage swap as you have been doing. Unfortunately, this is something you will not be able to rush especially with your buns being stubborn and grumpy.

Take the time and be on the safe side. Try and make deal with your parents that the cage is okay in the living room when you are not at school. That way it’s out of their sight during the day but your room is not cramped all the time either.

And try and do what was suggested about printing out a “bunny bonding info package” for your parents so they understand. Print pictures and estimated vet bills for injured rabbits so that they can weigh the consequences of rushing something like this.

[Aaron]

Would age play a factor in the bond when the time comes? He is 2 years old and she is 7 months old.

[sarahthegemini]

Age shouldn’t make a difference.

[LBJ10]

I thought I’d pop in on this thread since it looked like things were getting a little tense there for a minute. Rookie, thank you for taking charge of the situation. The forum leaders appreciate it.

Aaron – I understand how frustrating it must be for you. Sometimes parents don’t understand and, if they weren’t completely on board with a second rabbit in the first place, I can see why they may be anxious to get her out of the living area. I’m guessing one of the arguments for getting a second rabbit is that she would be bonded to your first rabbit and would not take up any additional space. Believe me, I get it. I was young once and I remember convincing my reluctant parents several times to get this pet or that pet. And, of course, these pets had to stay in MY room. I just wanted to let you know that I understand.

As for your situation, I see a lot of things being bounced around in this thread. I don’t doubt that everyone is trying to help, but I can see how things might get confusing for you. The good news is that your situation isn’t unique. Many people blindly bring a second rabbit home with the hopes of bonding them to their current rabbit. What I mean by blindly is that you have no idea how they will react to each other or if they will likely be a successful bond. Unfortunately, not all bonds are successful. Sometimes a rabbit just does not want a friend and sometimes we just have to accept that. I think your best bet moving forward is to continue with getting them accustomed to each others’ smell (like you have been up until this point). Swap litter boxes or blankets. It might not hurt to have them in the same room as long as their enclosures are not right next to each other (you don’t want fighting through the bars). Once the hormones have died down, you can begin the formal bonding process. This is your best bet for success. But there are no guarantees. Yes, there are other possible methods and those methods have worked for some people. But as far as “safest bet” goes, this is probably going to be it. Hopefully that helps.

[Aaron]

Thanks for that LBJ! I have both of them set up in my room, about one foot from each other. They are in separate cages, and cannot reach each other, but can still smell. Yesterday, both laid up against the bars of the cage, as close as they could get to each other. I am switching cages tonight, so they can smell each others things (litterbox, toys). They have been about one foot give or take since Saturday and there is absolutely no fighting through the bars what so ever. They just try and sniff each other and then go about their business.

[sarahthegemini]

If they are one foot apart, they couldn’t fight through the bars even if they wanted too. It’s a good sign that they just sniff and go about their business tho.

[Aaron]

So, cage switching is still going on, everyday now. Both lay against the bars of the cages right near each other, in a loaf, or flopped out. I have moved the cages closer too.

[Aaron]

Ok, I haven’t done updates for a while. And now, I have a large one. I know prebonding was originally going to end on the 12th, but I cut it short, and the vet gave me the ok to start bonding, and, I must announce, the two are officially bonded. He is not spraying pee, nipping her, or humping her. And she grooms him every 5 minutes. Please do not come at me, and I know it wasn’t anyones intention to do so in the past.

[Rookie]

How long have they been together now? A few days or is this brand new?
Good job. That’s good news. But just stay alert and keep monitoring for a bit….just in case…

[Rookie]

How long have they been together now? A few days or is this brand new?
Good job. That’s good news. But just stay alert and keep monitoring for a bit….just in case…

[Aaron]

They have been together since Friday night, and I am monitoring them closely. I am extremely alert for anything.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Aaron on 3/06/2017 10:57 AM

They have been together since Friday night, and I am monitoring them closely. I am extremely alert for anything.

Are you supervising 24/7?

[Aaron]

Yes

[sarahthegemini]

Good, glad to hear it.

[Vienna Blue in France]

Hi Aaron, this is good news then, well done.

One comment made by a BB member ages ago rings in my mind and I repeat it at each member’s bonding.

Something like – The absence of negative actions does NOT mean the presence of positive ones

It means that BOTH buns should be grooming the other and BOTH should be accepting grooms too.
It should be TWO way street and not just ONE bun grooming the other.

Do you see? So if your two are indeed doing that and also flopping and sticking to each other like glue when they are chilled out sleeping – then that’s it ! YAY!

If only bun is grooming, then try a dot of banana mash on the head or side of the body of the bun that does all the grooming to invite the other bun to start licking.

Let us know

[Aaron]

I will definitely try that Vienna. She grooms him more than he does to her, he will a little bit but not as much as she does it to him. Other than that, they flop together, eat together, sleep next to each other (they are napping next to each other as I type this) and use the same litterbox(even though I put 2 in there to prevent territorial behaviors.)

[Vienna Blue in France]

Great – you try that
My bonded pair groom each other of course, but it’s definitely the lady doing all the work too, probably a 70/30 split I’d say.
He’s top bun and when he asks he gets !

Once, they were grooming each other’s back and bottom (sitting head to toe like a ying & yang shape) for about 30 mins (really!)… it was so cute to watch.

And neither have EVER been so soft and silky since they’ve been bonded

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Vienna Blue in France on 3/06/2017 3:28 PM

Great – you try that
My bonded pair groom each other of course, but it’s definitely the lady doing all the work too, probably a 70/30 split I’d say.
He’s top bun and when he asks he gets !

Once, they were grooming each other’s back and bottom (sitting head to toe like a ying & yang shape) for about 30 mins (really!)… it was so cute to watch.

And neither have EVER been so soft and silky since they’ve been bonded

That reminds me of something that happened yesterday – Ended up dropping some worming treatment on the top of Peanut’s head (don’t ask lol) and his fur was practically gelled. Buttercup groomed him better than I could manage and made his little head soft and fluffy again 

[Aaron]

She will groom him into oblivion, and she really gets into it. His whole body moves! He pushes his head into hers, requesting for a groom, and she gives it to him, and she does the same thing. He will rarely give her a few licks, but he will usually push his head under hers. Are there any tips for stealing food. Now that there are two of them, he eats like he hasn’t seen food in 6 years, and gobbles his pellets up in 3 minutes flat. She likes to savor her food and rations it throughout the day. After he is done, he goes over and eats hers. I had to lock him up in the cage portion so she could eat in the gated yard part that I had built in my room for them. Any tips?

[Mikey]

My two oldest are like that. Blue eats super fast and Bombur eats super slow. I have to feed my buns apart to avoid Blue from over eating and stealing the other twos portions

You can try to slow his food intake per minute by hand feeding them a few pieces at a time. It works for some bunnies, but doesnt help others

[Aaron]

Whenever I walk by the cage to get to my desk, both come dashing over, and they sometimes step over each other! It is like both of them have never seen food before! I usually give them a few pellets as treats through the day, and they get their rabbit hay cookie at night. Mikey, Sarah, Rookie, Vienna and anyone else I may have missed, thank you for helping me with this bond. Thanks for the info you gave me and the advice for me to be a better bunny owner!

[Author]

Messages