LONG post – angoras, carpets, litter training, oh my!

[mobysmom01]

Hi everyone!

Three days ago I foster/adopted an English Angora (ambitious with the grooming, I know) who was rescued from the south and being fostered by a rescue locally.  I met him in his foster home.  His foster mom told me he was perfect with his litter box- he was roaming the room and I saw that he was.  His litter was ripped up newspaper and his litter box was in an enormous great dane dog crate which was open to the downstairs great room.  He got neutered four days ago, and the next day I brought him home, thinking that he was most of the way there with his litter training.

Not so, apparently.  I set up his living space the same way it had been in his foster home – litter box in a dog crate – and opened up an x-pen to part of his room.  He almost immediately peed on the carpet and scent marked EVERYWHERE, which I know is normal, but the peeing I was surprised at.  He does not consistently use his litter box for either and it has become increasingly frustrating.  I tried switching litters and putting out multiple boxes, and while he sometimes used some, it is about as  much as he has used the carpet.  He was also on a bad diet, despite the best intentions of the rescuer, and he so far does not eat hay, just chews occasionally on a hay cube, so in terms of hanging out in his litter box and eating he has even less reason to.

So here is what I’ve come up with so far as to causes:

1)  He is not used to carpet.  He had hardwood floors in both his foster home and his initial home down south.

2) He smells other rabbits.  I had a house bunny previously and his scent is probably still on the carpet.  I am also fostering a rabbit for a rescue in a completely separate room, a male who is not yet neutered, and I’m probably tracking the smell with me.

3)  He does not like the litter I am using.  He apparently consistently used ripped newpaper but I’d REALLY like to avoid that.  I tried care fresh which he just dug up and you can imagine how it stuck to his wool.  His previous foster said that he hated compressed wood pellets but she only tried for a day or so and I’d like to give it a longer shot.

4) He is still hormonal from his neuter and is more likely to scent mark and urinate everywhere, which doesn’t make sense only because he was fine before his neuter.

5)  I am just moving too quickly with him and should confine him to a large crate with some supervised time in an x-pen until he consistently uses the litter box in the crate… but what if he doesn’t?  

So, what I went back and did was put him in the dog crate with his litter box.  It’s not as big as I’d like but he has enough room for a few hops and telescoping.  I really want to get him used to the wood pellets so I put those in there.  I am really hoping he uses the litter box.  I am really worried that he just won’t ever get used to carpet and I’m also worried that he won’t like the litter I’m using.  Ideally I’d love to get him a grated box to use but I’m not there yet, or should I get one now?  What does everyone think of my plan of action for now?  Any Ideas would help!  It’s hard not to compare him to past experiences, but every bunny is different for sure.  

Has anyone been through this and been successful with an adjustment long term??? THANK YOU!

[mobysmom01]

I forgot to mention that he is estimated to be about 2 years old, so he is an adult bun

[sarahthegemini]

Firstly, you must post a picture of the handsome devil  

Secondly, I think you’re right with your thoughts on why he is peeing everywhere – you only got him a few days ago AND he was neutered so that in itself is a lot to deal with as he has to settle in his new home as well as recover and that could easily throw him a bit out of wack. Not to mention he can probably smell the other rabbit too so I think it’s a combo of things. Perhaps he is feeling a little insecure at the moment (again, new home, new smells, can detect another bun etc) and so he feels the need to establish and claim everything as his. Sometimes post neuter, they can go through a hormone surge too where their behaviour gets a little wild but it does settle down. So, there’s a lot of things going on! 

I would limit his space for now, you don’t have too have him cooped up but maybe limit his space to just one room at the moment until he settles in (giving him too much space at once could overwhelm him especially at a stressful time) and keep soaking up urine spills with kitchen roll and put that in his litter tray. If you think it might be due to him not liking  the litter, you could try making a gradual change so instead of switching away from newspaper right away, mix in the new litter and see how he gets on with that. Then reduce the amount of newspaper and increase the new litter. 

[mobysmom01]

Thanks so much. This was definitely helpful. I bet he is feeling insecure, the poor guy. Since I cut his space back today he has consistently been using his litter box, so I’m gradually going to open him up. We are still closely monitoring his eating and pooping, he was getting unlimited alfalfa pellets and his foster wasn’t familiar with rabbit dietary needs so he actually hadn’t eaten for almost a day after his neuter. We ended up doing critical care at home for a full day.

do you think that flooring could be an ongoing issue with peeing? I haven’t had the issue with other buns but I don’t know if they get confused…

I will post a photo. He is so handsome. He looks a little like a moose, especially with the haircut I gave him. It’s a work in progress but it’ll be easier to groom.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By mobysmom01 on 1/24/2017 2:12 PM

Thanks so much. This was definitely helpful. I bet he is feeling insecure, the poor guy. Since I cut his space back today he has consistently been using his litter box, so I’m gradually going to open him up. We are still closely monitoring his eating and pooping, he was getting unlimited alfalfa pellets and his foster wasn’t familiar with rabbit dietary needs so he actually hadn’t eaten for almost a day after his neuter. We ended up doing critical care at home for a full day.

do you think that flooring could be an ongoing issue with peeing? I haven’t had the issue with other buns but I don’t know if they get confused…

I will post a photo. He is so handsome. He looks a little like a moose, especially with the haircut I gave him. It’s a work in progress but it’ll be easier to groom.

Glad it was helpful, and happy to hear the space limiting is improving his litter habits!

It sounds like the best thing for this bunny is going home with you! I suppose the flooring could be an ongoing issue in regards to peeing but I wouldn’t worry about that just yet. Both of my bunnies have no issues with peeing on different flooring but neither one is territorial either (I’m very lucky I know!) I would assume that once he becomes settled and more secure, flooring won’t really matter. Just keep doing what you’re doing, and give him more space gradually when he is consistent with his litter box after each new ‘space addition’

Can’t wait to see him! 

[mobysmom01]

Thank you SO much. I’ll keep updating this thread with his progress
Now, how do I upload a picture to here??? LOL

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By mobysmom01 on 1/24/2017 4:06 PM

Thank you SO much. I’ll keep updating this thread with his progress
Now, how do I upload a picture to here??? LOL

I upload mine to tinypic.com and then copy and paste the html code here

[mobysmom01]

So, update over the past day and a half or so. He did so well in his crate, not a poop or pee out of the litter box. We opened him up to a really small area with the xpen and he was so happy but within 5 minutes he peed on the carpet ? Any more suggestions?

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By mobysmom01 on 1/25/2017 9:16 PM

So, update over the past day and a half or so. He did so well in his crate, not a poop or pee out of the litter box. We opened him up to a really small area with the xpen and he was so happy but within 5 minutes he peed on the carpet ? Any more suggestions?

Hmm. Does he have any fleece blankets or plushies in his cage? I don’t know whether this would work but you could put something fleecey in his cage and then after a couple of days (once his scent is on it), you could lay it on the carpet when he comes out. That way, he will already recognise his scent and might not feel the need to mark?

[mobysmom01]

He doesn’t have anything in his cage besides his litter box. that’s a good idea. I’ll add something. I have pieces of fleece.

Also, slightly different question- he has been digging on my pants and nipping my legs and fingers a bit (ouch) when he comes out if I’m sitting in the x-pen, i open it up wider when I sit in it. It’s not constant and definitely seems like a ‘move aside’ and not ‘give me attention’ thing, but could this be related to hormones too? He never did this in his old home!

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By mobysmom01 on 1/27/2017 12:19 PM

He doesn’t have anything in his cage besides his litter box. that’s a good idea. I’ll add something. I have pieces of fleece.

Also, slightly different question- he has been digging on my pants and nipping my legs and fingers a bit (ouch) when he comes out if I’m sitting in the x-pen, i open it up wider when I sit in it. It’s not constant and definitely seems like a ‘move aside’ and not ‘give me attention’ thing, but could this be related to hormones too? He never did this in his old home!

Hopefully that will work. Sometimes bunnies like to pee on fleece so don’t be disheartened if he does. It could go either way but fingers crossed 

Hmm, it could be. My Peanut has dug at my pyjama bottoms a couple of times but he is quite a diggy rabbit anyway and possibly thought my clothing was too hard to resist lol. I’ve only ever been nipped by my bunnies a couple of times. You could try giving him a digging box to see if he will concentrate on that rather than digging at you? 

[mobysmom01]

The digging was definitely just his was of saying ‘outta my way!’- he is a sweet guy and loves being pet, and groomed once he realizes why he’s being held!

So he has had another peeing accident on the carpet. Despite tons of white vinegar and enzyme diffusing stuff he must smell the spot where he went before. Since it is one spot I’ve given up on fighting it for now and added a second litter box-
Cosmetically I hate the location, it’s sorta in the middle of the room but he is peeing in it when he’s out of his crate in the xpen. I realize that’s my issue not his haha!
I’ve opened up his crate to his xpen several hours a day now with that second litter box and fingers crossed no accidents.

[mobysmom01]

Well, he stayed out overnight in the part of the xpen we opened him up to! He did great. Peed and pooped only in the litter box in the horrendous location but I’ll take it! I’m going to pick up an indoor/outdoor area rug today to put in his area because his wool majorly tracks hay everywhere.
One of these days I’ll post some photos. I’m also going to try opening up his area some more.

[mobysmom01]

Update, a month later…

Moby is officially a free range rabbit. It took lots of changes with carpets, litter boxes, etc. but he has the run of the house and hasn’t had an accident in weeks. I honestly believe our cat helped train him. They adore each other and have little boxes side by side. He may very well have been frustrated at his lack of space or just hormonal but he got there!

I also finally figured out how to groom him after a few less than ideal cuts. One of these days I’ll figure out how to post pics.

So for anyone reading this who is struggling have hope. I never thought we would get here.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By mobysmom01 on 3/05/2017 7:42 AM

Update, a month later…

Moby is officially a free range rabbit. It took lots of changes with carpets, litter boxes, etc. but he has the run of the house and hasn’t had an accident in weeks. I honestly believe our cat helped train him. They adore each other and have little boxes side by side. He may very well have been frustrated at his lack of space or just hormonal but he got there!

I also finally figured out how to groom him after a few less than ideal cuts. One of these days I’ll figure out how to post pics.

So for anyone reading this who is struggling have hope. I never thought we would get here.

Yay, glad to read such a happy update And the part bolded,  that’s adorable! 

[Yoyo]

lol Moby! – fantastic update! I myself too, kinda went through some of what you did… got an un-neutered male, and had him fixed.. it took a good month, before he x-formed into the gentleman, he now is… before that tho.. he was TERRIBLE xDD

Was very nice, to see your update too! ~ Binkey on!

[mobysmom01]

Thank you Yoyo and Sarah, I appreciate it. The cat and rabbit are ridiculously cute together. Can one of you give me directions about how to upload photos again?

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