New Rabbit Mom Seeking Info “Criney” Infection (?)

[Nev]

We adopted Daisy in August from an SPCA.  About a month ago, she received a small scratch on her cornea, possibly a hay poke.  We have a great vet, she was in the office about an hour after I noticed something weird going on.  Very long story somewhat shorter, it’s been weeks of different antibiotics and treatments, ups with the eye showing improvement, to downs like a week hospitalization to try some more heavy hitting medications.  She was improving and sent home with injectable medication and eye drops, had two positive follow up appointments, but rapidly developed an abscess behind that eye on Wednesday night.  She was at the vet’s again Thursday (yesterday morning), they almost immediately insisted upon removing the eye.

Which is what initially brought me to you yesterday via an online search, seeking information about the procedure, follow up care and quality of life.  I’ve read many stories of both successes and sadness.  Thank you for leaving your forums open to the public, it provided great comfort. <3

Daisy made it through her surgery and was eating this morning.  The vet called her status “just fair” and would like her to stay a day or more longer.  Her prognosis is “not great” (to quote), because “the infection can spread to organs and kill rabbits very quickly”.  Through all this, even yesterday her heart, lungs and ears were all doing great, so they feel there is some hope an infection hasn’t spread yet.

 Because we’ve been through so many treatments and theories about what is actually causing the infections, we were not given a name to any bacteria or virus.  However, today he mentioned something akin to “criney” infection over the phone.  I didn’t think to ask for clarification until he hung up.  All I have is this phonetic spelling, and it’s possible this is slang for something else, so it’s making an online search and even here on forums pretty unsuccessful without something closer to it’s name.  Does it sound familiar to anyone?  CRY-KNEE was how I heard it.

I offer thanks for any kind suggestions on what he may have been referencing.  We know it’s not E.C. or myxomatosis as those were ruled out, so this is all I have to go on lol.  I didn’t want to call back for clarification as it’s surgery day and I’m reluctant to have him paged from another patient for a non-emergency like my over anxious need to learn everything I can about what happened to poor Daisy and what may happen.

 We have a young daughter who also needs to be prepared, and sadly a home filled with grief as we’ve lost two other pets in the past few months (one from old age, the other was a sudden and horrible heart attack we witnessed – she was gone within seconds, before we could get her to help).  Daisy is very loved, her family wants to learn everything they can.  Thank you.

 

[jerseygirl]

Welcome

Im very sorry for your recent losses. To lose to fur babies close together like that must be so difficult.

You must be so relieved that Daisy came through the surgery well. It can be incredible how quickly they heal from this and how well they adjust with just the one eye. I hope that will be the case for your Daisy.

As to the infection name, the only things I can think sound similar are Cornea or Corneal infection or Chronic infection. Could your vet have said that? In regards to infection spreading quickly and being fatal, perhaps she was meaning septicemia?

[Bam]

Lacrimal infection (infection of tear duct)?

That’s the only thing I can think of other than cornea.

Bunnies as a rule do very well with only one eye. It doesn’t even seem to affect their aim that much. It’s probably because their eyes aren’t directed forward like ours and many predators’ eyes are, so they don’t have our type of stereo-vision/depth perception.

[Nev]

Thanks for your kind responses I’d like to think I am not mishearing things lol – I have a background in human medicine so it’s embarrassing to confess I may not pick up on something properly. I’m fairly certain it was not “cornea” as I’ve heard him use that term as well and it did not sound the same. Maybe “chronic” or some kind of variation on that as Jerseygirl suggests.

We know Daisy made it through the night and is “okay” today. I have to call in the afternoon to speak to the vet who will make the decision then if she can come home today. He’ll have to spend time with me obviously to instruct on her post-op care and medications, hopefully he will have time for a Q&A.

I reached out to my sister, who has a friend who was an exotic vet tech years ago, the friend has no idea what I am referencing, either lol. She is equally as curious, I will be sure to report back to her and anyone interested here if we get some clarification! I’m hoping it’s something common and I can do a “duh” head slap later lol.

I’m more of a cat person, Daisy is the first bun companion I have had since early childhood, and I do not recall the late Rody well (except he was gray. loppy eared and loved to eat the satin trim on my mother’s maroon bathrobe). Technically Daisy is the companion of my 8 year old daughter, but in the past month of illness her care has been provided primarily by the hubby and me. We did lots of research before adopting her, I learned about how sensitive rabbits are. Daisy didn’t flinch for a second when we first passed her at the SPCA while my hyperactive kiddo was loud and hopping around. In fact, when released from her cage, Daisy played with her and seemed to enjoy the action. That’s how we learned about “binkying” We were looking for a cat, but instead met the feisty rabbit with an attitude! We hope she pulls through. She is so unique and loved, truly the missing piece to the family.

[Bam]

Fingers crossed here for her continued recovery! And please update us about the “criney” too, we are really intrigued now.

There is a word for attitude in a rabbit: “bunitude”

[Nev]

Daisy is home

The infection is:
corynebacterium pyrogenes

He does shorten it to “cry-knee”. I would have pronounced it “core-eye-knee”, so if he did too we all may have found out faster lol.

Daisy munched on a little banana and kale. She seems disoriented. Her cage is in the kitchen/dining area; it’s my usual practice to chat at her when cooking and cleaning. I’m trying to be courteous by addressing her “good side” so she can see me, she isn’t having it. I’m getting the cold shoulder lol. My husband will be home in about 3 hours, she LOVES Daddy, maybe she will warm up to him.

[Bam]

Kale and banana-munching is great! I’d think being a bit disoriented is be normal in her situation. Her brain has some learning to do now.
So glad she’s back at home with you now. It must be such a relief for her too, to be back where she belongs

Many thanks for solving the criney-mystery!

[jerseygirl]

Oh my gosh, that was a term I read before I posted but 1) I didn’t find much on it to do with rabbits 2) I didn’t want to post about something to cause you concern if it was a complete guess. The only thing I read that I thought your vet could have been making reference to this was the way the bacteria can get into adjacent tissue and infection spreads.

So you vet said this is what her eye infection was or was he comparing it to infections of this kind?

Glad to hear you have your girl home.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Sending your bunny lots of (((Healing Vibes)))))). Crossing my fingers she makes a full recovery.

And sorry to hear about your recent losses. I know how much that hurts. I lost 2 babies in September.

[Nev]

Thank you . What a kind group, I wish I had found you all under more pleasant circumstances.

I actually couldn’t find any references to corynebacterium and rabbits that were more than a sentence. Apparently it’s more associated with livestock. We have two landlords (a brother and sister), the one who lives in the house behind us has goats and chickens. Daisy has never been anywhere near them, and vice versa. Because we live in rural NH, the goats and chickens are actually surrounded by live wire fences – so WE have never been near them close enough to touch, either, I can’t believe this is something we would’ve brought to her. All the other animals on the property are in good health, including cats and dogs.

I mentioned a former vet tech acquaintance who has been speaking to me via instagram the past few days. She says that rabbits are sometimes very difficult to cure, and infections can lay dormant in them for years. I plan to speak to the vet next week at the follow up appointment. I just have to know how this happened Something she was born with? Something she caught at the shelter that was exacerbated by the cornea scratch? She did come to us from the SPCA with a case of fleas, which were treated. We don’t have much info about her previous life, except she was a pet store purchase, was unaltered (which the SPCA spayed her before we could take her home), and was essentially given up by her original family willingly (no idea why, she’s adorable).

The other downside to lack of information regarding rabbits is the lack of info on home remedies, diet, environmental recommendations, etc. She already eats mostly organics, well washed veggies, clean well water (we live on an organic farm, hence the animals and multiple homes on the property lol).

Daisy has been unsocial today, but it seems more out of terror than discomfort – she’s been running from us or hiding under the desk, or even worse, turning away with her eye so she can’t see us I can’t blame her – the amount of times I’ve had to take her literally kicking to the vet or have her submit to medication in the past month is staggering. She was in the shelter for 3 months after knowing only a family, she’s friendly and playful but was JUST starting to become a little affectionate with us before this started. She would hop onto my bed every night to her “spot” for lots of love before bedtime. She’s been cowering when a hand reaches into the cage with a treat. The poor dear.

My heart is broken for her. I just want to be her mom, love and take care of her, even if her life is much abbreviated. Trying to put on a brace face for my daughter. Leah likes to draw comics and invent origin stories for her characters, she made Daisy the Pirate Bunny with carrot swords and eye patches.

Thank you again for all your kind words and welcome

[jerseygirl]

It seems to be associated with “lumpy jaw” in farm animals. Abscesses that form from the root of the tooth. Rabbits get those also, due to various species of bacteria. I wonder if corynebacterium species is just one of the natural (opportunistic) bacteria that inhabit the body and only become a problem when conditons are created for it to thrive and reach infection status?

Did your vet do an x-ray before the eye surgery? The association of this bacteria with tooth root abscesses brings me to ask if perhaps the abscess behind the eye was due to tooth root infection and the scratch on the cornea was just coincidental. Or due to her eye starting to protrude. Retro bulbuar abscesses can push the eye outwards and are most commonly due to tooth root abscess in rabbits.

My heart is broken for her. I just want to be her mom, love and take care of her, even if her life is much abbreviated. Trying to put on a brace face for my daughter. Leah likes to draw comics and invent origin stories for her characters, she made Daisy the Pirate Bunny with carrot swords and eye patches.

Aw bless. That’s really all we can do at times, isn’t it. We cannot fix everything, as much as we’d like to!! The comic sounds adorable!! I hope you’ll see Daisy returning to her former bunny self soon. It’s understandable she’s more skittish at this time.

[vanessa]

Shame poor little Daisy. She will need some time and bribery to feel sociable again. I have a bunny who is completely deaf, and can only see light and shadow. He does just fine. He sniffs around for his food, and gets around his room just fine.

[Nev]

I never had a name to an infection during the month process of her treatments. I did read later the bacteria was associated with “lumpy jaw” – my hope is the vets (at this point, there are two associated with her surgery and care) have a little more knowledge in the field than I’ve gleaned from Googled livestock articles.

It was the second or third follow up treatment when Dr. W noticed she had formed a ball of pus inside her eye that would require hospitalization for more intense treatment. That was when he first mentioned the possibility she would lose the eye – if they can’t get the infection out of the eye, they’d take the eye In hopes of sparing her life because a spread to the lungs or ears would likely be fatal. He admitted this was already unusual, at this point she had already tried tobraymicin and gentamicin optic drops (which are also human optic medications, I am familiar enough with them from my pharmacy background to remember those two LOL) and her progress was downs with few ups. He said at that time, he wasn’t able to culture for a specific bacteria because it was quite literally in her eyeball which she was still attached to, and fortunately even at this time there were no signs it had spread elsewhere. Maybe they cultured it after the eye was removed? I didn’t think to ask, so I’ll do so at her follow up on Saturday.

It was quite surreal, this last visit when they took her away for surgery. If they performed any X-rays or other tests prior to surgery, it wasn’t in my presence. Dr. W, who is normally very calm with a “least invasive” attiutude approach to heath care (he seen several of our other pets and in two cases helped us develop care plans so elderly cats could pass peacefully at home without his intervention), spent about two minutes accessing the eye and her heart and lungs, and said “this eye needs to come out now unfortunately, there was an abscess behind it that burst, it’s the only way”. I could see for myself something was terribly wrong even if I didn’t know what – she went from a damaged eye (it was bright red and purple) to forming a red knot above the bone, red swollen lids and profusely leaking a white pus from the eye within 12 hours. I did take a few pictures (in case Dr. W wanted me to text them instead of coming in) ill research how to post them here. So anyway, back to the story, Dr. J comes in to immediately says pretty much the same thing after a perfunctory exam, says he’ll have to do it now-ish, pops her back in the carrier and she is gone (I was so stunned, I didn’t even kiss her goodbye). Dr. W stayed with me for a moment longer to discuss the risks of rabbit anesthesia (which I was already familiar with, we started her adoption process before she was spayed, they explained it). He promised he would call if there were problems. I didn’t even think to ask for a price quote – we live on a serious budget (lol – who doesn’t?), so the impression I was left with was that this was extremely serious and the only way to keep any infection leaking into other things. I spent 24 hours terrified we were going to lose her while my husband made a plan to pawn our wedding rings and appliances (he is much more of an emotional being than I am, and I am still pretty shaken up lol). Fortunately neither one of those scenarios have come to pass yet.

Today Daisy is still mad. I had to do her injection before hubby left for work, she deigned to be petted briefly afterwards before hiding under my desk. She’s eating all her greens, doesn’t seem to be thrilled about her hay which is a little concerning. We have a pair of 21 week old male kittens who are obnoxious brats (but the adorable, lovable kind) my sensitive and kind hearted husband brought home two weeks ago (one of his customers had a cat who got out one night and produced a litter, this woman was due to be evicted for pet violation on her lease as she couldn’t find homes for these last two – so he took them, without consenting his wife or his landlord lol – fortunately our landlords are more the type to say “You have room for more pets, get more pets, these ones need a home.”). Daisy immediately declared herself alpha cat and would spend glorious hours chasing them around. Now she’s content to be under the desk, but these kitties won’t leave her alone. To be fair, they are being sweet and concerned (like they can tell something is very wrong), but they may be keeping her trapped under there, one laying a foot away from her on either side. I think they are irritating her.

[Bam]

I do think there was a real risk of the infection spreading since the abscess had burst. If that happens, bacteria can get out into the bloodstream – an abscess on the body surface generally bursts so the pus and bact can drain out of the body, but a burst abscess inside the body means all that goo spills out into the body and that’s really bad.

Abscesses are difficult to cure with antibiotics because of the connective tissue wall the body build to protect bacteria getting out of the abscess. This wall also stops antibiotics from getting in to the bacteria to kill them or make them stop growing.

Apparently corynebacterium pyogenes has been re-named trueperella pyogenes, and it really does seem to be an opportunistic bacterium. I quote: ” Trueperella pyogenes is a common inhabitant of the urogenital, gastrointestinal, and upper respiratory tracts of many animal species (2–4). However, a physical or microbial insult to the host can lead to a variety of suppurative T. pyogenes infections”. http://genomea.asm.org/content/2/2/e00400-14.full.pdf
It seems to affect wild deer as well as livestock, and dogs.

It has also been known as arcanobacterium p, and actinomyces p. http://www.vetbact.org/vetbactblog/archives/870

Get well now, Daisy, your family loves you so.

(Daisy’s mum, you probably know the things I just wrote, but others who find this thread later might be interested.)

[Nev]

Post surgery, Dr. J (who was the one who performed it) was careful to point out although this was Daisy’s only chance, it’s still highly possible it wasn’t enough, there may be bacteria in her blood stream (which doesn’t bode well for the rest of her body of they couldn’t get it out of her eye). They’ve had me monitoring her for coughing (sign of lung involvement) and head shaking (fluid in the ears) since she came home the first time. So far, so good. They even check her lungs, heart and ears when we stop in to concur.

I know you all will understand <3 I feel as if I can handle anything if it's all out in the open, known information, estimated dates and times, that sort of thing. If they said "This surgery will buy her three more months but she'd have a comfortable three months" we'd still have done it. If it was a known that she'd still go, and go quickly, or suffer, we'd have a different conversation about it as family. I know it's the nature of life in general, but it's so frustrating lol. Just trying to concentrate on Daisy here by my feet. Apparently my socks are offensive, but a scrap of paper is fascinating. So glad I work from home and can be here.

[Nev]

Greetings again I thought I would pass along an update on our Daisy, the patient with the unusual infection in her eye! I didn’t want to start a whole new thread, I hope a bump is okay.

It’s been over two weeks since Daisy’s enucleation. She has been back three times for follow up appointments, and we did go through a brief spell where she didn’t eat her hay (she would eat her greens, it was blamed on nausea and she’s since back to eating everything).

Daisy has been a week without any antibiotics, and had what we hope was her last visit for this issue today. They removed her scab to take a peek underneath it. No signs of infection, everything looks great. We will have to dab the site with some hydrogen peroxide every night to keep it clean, however the vets (all three from the practice came out to see her today!) are incredibly positive and pleased.

Thank you all for your kind support and willingness to comfort and educate a stranger <3

[jerseygirl]

That’s great that she is doing so well!    Thanks for the update.

Im a little wary of hydrogen peroxide. A short discussion came up about it in the last 4 posts in this thread

 if you’d like to take a look.

Also, this antibiotic info is something you might like to ask the vets about in the event there is further infection. Fingers crossed there never will be!!

 

Thank you all for your kind support and willingness to comfort and educate a stranger <3

I rather think you educated us!

Please stick around and keep us updated on your pirate girl.

[Bam]

Thank you for the update! I’m happy to hear she’s doing so well and that her vets are so positive. As Jersey says, this is educational for us, so thank you very much for sharing this with us. And we will appreciate updates on Pirate-Daisy =)

[Nev]

Pirate Daisy Update

Daisy has been doing well! Most of her whiskers and fur on the surgical side of her face has grown back, she has a weird scab jutting out a little but otherwise looks like there was never an eye on that side to begin with. She’s been a tad anti-social and anti/veggies lately, she has a check up after New Year just to make sure everything is okay. She’s just “off” enough that I am the only person in the family who has noticed, being the one with her most of the time courtesy of working from home. Our “kittens” (who are now over six months old and HUGE) are still terrified of Daisy; Daisy doesn’t seem to mind them in the least until they touch her things. They were recently neutered, and took just about no recovery time – right back to stealing poor Daisy’s toys until she chases them away.

Santa was kind this year. He brought me a battery operated Dirl Devil vacuum which is much quieter and doesn’t bother the bunny at all, as opposed to the upright which sent her hiding for hours at a time. He also brought Daisy some new toys, they’ve spared our door frames a bit

Best wishes to you all and your buns! Happy New Year!

[Author]

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