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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Theo not eating again, at the end of my tether with this :'(

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    • Theodorusrex
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        Got his breakfast 4 hours ago and won’t touch it. He did do some poops about 5 minutes ago but they’re tiny and all squashed together ? to make matters worse we’re down at my parents house currently which is 1h30 from our normal vets if it comes to that. I also have run out of critical care – we are taking theo to the vets on Monday to get his vaccinations and was just planning to pick up some then ? can’t believe I allowed us to run out. I’ve given him some simethicone and belly massages and now we wait.

        I don’t know what to do about this it feels never ending ?


      • Benthebunny
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          Oh! Poor Theo! Hang in there, Theo. Give him extra snuggles for me.
          (((Stomach vibes)))


        • Bam
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            Make pellet mash, it works when you can’t get CC. (Just pour water on pellets and let sit for a bit, then feed as you would CC.)

            (((((Theo)))))


          • jerseygirl
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              Do you have some herbs you can try get him to eat?

              Could it be a bit of delayed reaction to travelling do you think?


            • Theodorusrex
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                He won’t touch herbs, we offered him a tiny slice of strawberry too which he refused and that’s his fav treat. He has nibbled on like 2 of his probiotics but that’s all.

                Managed to find a nearby vet with some critical care thankfully.

                I’m not sure about the travelling.. We arrived yesterday and the journeys only 1hr. We do it semi-regularly and he’s never had any problems before. But I suppose it could be that. This has happened at about fortnightly intervals since his first serious bout of stasis about 2 months ago

                Thanks for vibes everyone.


              • Benthebunny
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                  Thats great that you found a vet. I hope Theo gets better soon!


                • Theodorusrex
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                    Thanks benthebunny. His tummy troubles seem never ending my hear is breaking for my poor baby


                  • Vienna Blue in France
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                      Try rose petals or rose leaves, that was all Zou ate post-op…. she turned her nose up at everything else for 2 days…. hence my mission on ‘tidying’ up neighbours’ rose bushes….


                    • ergodic
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                        Has your vet done any blood work to see if there might be something underlying that might be causing it? It may be very well be the travelling. Rabbit can be very sensitive about travelling and changing environments. Feel better soon Theo.


                      • Theodorusrex
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                          I don’t have any rose bushes in the garden Vienna and I would be nervous to give him bought roses – pesticides etc??

                          He was at the vet last week who gave a clean bill of health but he didn’t do any blood work to be fair. We’re back in next week for his myx and rhd 1&2 vaccinations so I can chat more to our vet then.

                          I would agree with the travelling theory if it weren’t for the ongoing nature of this, and the fact that he has travelled to my mums probably about 15 times since we got him and never had even the slightest problem.

                          Just want my healthy boy back now – I hate seeing him so miserable and ill


                        • Vienna Blue in France
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                            Go around the neighbour then…. you’ll find some…
                            Even someone in their front garden would give you one if you asked nicely and explained why…
                            And if they say no, return later with some secateurs….


                          • Vienna Blue in France
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                              Or willow !! Loads of willow trees everywhere ! Bunnies luuuurve them.


                            • LBJ10
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                                What about willow leaves? That’s one of the few things mine will eat if their tummies hurt.


                              • Vienna Blue in France
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                                  LOL LBJ !! Great minds… half an hour after ! It must be the time delay !


                                • Bam
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                                    Willow really is great. It’s rarely if ever treated with pesticides.

                                    This could still be from when he was overfed by the boarder. It can take months, maybe traveling was just stressful enough for his tum to protest. I hope it’s just that, because time and hay and stubbornness will help.


                                  • Hazel
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                                      Poor Theo. Does he still seem uncomfortable/in pain or is he just not eating?

                                      I know this has been suggested several times (and I think you’ve given him at least one dose already?), but I would give the Simethicone a thorough try, over a few days if necessary. I know you mentioned that you think Theo’s problems could be partially caused by shedding. Our bun has tummy issues quite regularly, usually when he’s shedding. And giving him Simethicone has always worked like magic. Often he goes back to normal soon after the first dose, sometimes it takes a few, but it has always done the trick eventually.

                                      Sorry I don’t have any better advice. I’m sending lots of healing vibes to your little boy!


                                    • Q8bunny
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                                        Ok. So every problem has a cause.

                                        I would do an exclusion diet experiment to ascertain that there’s nothing he eats (even occasionally) that triggers his tum.

                                        I’d also have poo, pee, and blood checked for parasites, signs of infection, etc.

                                        Buns can get the equivalent of stomach ulcers, irritable bowel syndrome, etc.

                                        Finally, not sure what your darling’s genetic mix is, but megacolon can also manifest with Theo’s symptoms and not just with huge oval poops.

                                        Whatever the cause, I’m sorry he’s poorly again and send him love and well wishes ((((((healthy tum))))))


                                      • Theodorusrex
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                                          Thank you everyone for your well wishes and suggestions, really.

                                          Simethicone is our best friend at the minute, it really seems to help him when he’s unwell. We will keep going with that. He’s done some poop but it’s so tiny and misshapen we definitely have some gut slowdown.

                                          It could be still from the boarder, that’s what we think although I had been hopeful his probiotics would get him back on track. He will NEVER go to any boarder ever again. My husband and i’s parents have agreed to share the load thankfully.

                                          His shed is over at this stage so I think we can rule out that cause. I will be looking into his diet for sure and discussing all of this with the vet on Monday. He is great and so knowledgable about bunnies and has a soft spot for theo to boot. Hopefully he will have some suggestions although I feel like it will just be a wait and see if it improves situation


                                        • Theodorusrex
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                                            Oh and Vienna&LBJ he has some willow but not interested unfortunately! He has nibbled on a handful of his probiotic pellets (he actually adores them) and a few pieces of Kale but that’s all in probably 18 h


                                          • Q8bunny
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                                              Maybe no kale for a bit – it’s not recommended when the gi acts up.


                                            • Bam
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                                                The probiotic pellets have lots of fibre + the probiotics, so that’s good for him. Make sure he drinks too, or syringe him water.


                                              • Theodorusrex
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                                                  Really Q8? I had read on rabbit.org that it was a good choice for a rabbit in stasis :/ oh well no more kale then.

                                                  Thankfully he is drinking plenty bam. He’s fighting me plenty when I’m syringing him – always a good sign!!


                                                • Q8bunny
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                                                    My vet says in her decades of seeing buns, she’s noticed kale causes gas or more serious gi upset in buns prone to stasis


                                                  • Theodorusrex
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                                                      That’s good to know Q8 I’d never heard that before; just not to give it every day cause of the Oxalic acid.

                                                      Theo gets it a couple of times a week will have to cut it out. What a shame he loves it poor theo with his mummy taking all his favourites away


                                                    • beebun
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                                                        Oh, no, Theo

                                                        {{{{healing vibes}}}


                                                      • Q8bunny
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                                                          The thing is, once his tum’s totally recovered you could try reintroducing tiny bits occasionally. But bun tumtums can take a looong time to fully heal, so he might just need that time the way human ulcer pacients need to be on a bland diet for months sometimes to let their stomachs fully heal.


                                                        • Bam
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                                                            Kale is a bit controversial. It’s good because it’s deep green and buns love it, and many bunnies seem to tolerate it without a problem. But I’d go with what Q8’s vet says and leave out all cabbage-type vegs.

                                                            My rabbits love apple leaves, and apple twigs. They get it every day (twigs only in winter, of course, but they eat the bark). Mint is traditionally used for indigestion in humans, cilantro (coriander) is good too. Berries can be given because they’re not as sugary as fruit, the blackberries are ripening here now, maybe you could find some for him? I give my buns 1 berry each/day, they’re pretty big berries.


                                                          • Theodorusrex
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                                                              I would never dream of giving theo cabbage but never thought of kale as being a cabbage but of course it is! Funny, lol. There’s so much conflicting info out there!

                                                              He gets a lot of mint and coriander, as well as basil and occasional parsley. We’d totally cut all sugary stuff out for the mean time but he used to get a strawberry or raspberry as a treat


                                                            • Bam
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                                                                There really is lots of conflicting info. F ex I’ve always thought lilacs were toxic to rabbits, but looking online it doesn’t seem to be. I still don’t dare feed mine lilac. My buns get kale from October to Christmas, after Christmas there’s no more kale in the stores (it’s traditionally eaten at Christmas here). My efforts at growing some myself didn’t turn out well this year because of cabbage flies =(


                                                              • jerseygirl
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                                                                  Dill is another herb that can be useful for buns having tummy problems. {{{Theo}}}

                                                                  I’m very glad to read simethicone makes a difference for him.

                                                                  To Q8’s list of things to investigate, I would add teeth. Always teeth. If a rabbit is being sedated for anything, (like x-rays, for example), take the opportunity for your vet to get a thorough look at the molars.

                                                                  Theo’s recurrent bouts remind me of MissD’s rabbit, Buddy. He was like this when younger. I think he is more stable with it now. One of the things that helped him is zantac (Ranitidine). Some rabbits respond well to it. It just has to be used moderately as it can make the gut to alkaline.


                                                                • jerseygirl
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                                                                    Oh! btw, is Theo a paper or cardboard eater?


                                                                  • Theodorusrex
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                                                                      I wouldn’t be able to grow kale either bam but more to do with my ability to kill almost any plant

                                                                      JG, he had his teeth checked not that long ago as we thought this could be the problem as he’s not a big chewer and can go through phases with his hay. He has a hay he loves now though. The vet said his teeth were a tiny bit long but flat and in really good condition. We were definitely planning to get the vet to look at them again. He’s not a big cardboard eater. He will nibble on toilet paper tubes occasionally but it will take him days and days To get through one


                                                                    • Vienna Blue in France
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                                                                        Zou snobs certain cardboards and devours others – specifically a ‘normal’ cardboard box with a 2-3 mm corrugated bit inbetween the two layers.

                                                                        She gives toilet paper tubes and kitchen roll 1/10, not bovvered at all.
                                                                        Cardboard boxes 10/10, rips to bits in a Frenzy almost!!

                                                                        So maybe try different kinds…?


                                                                      • Bam
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                                                                          How is he doing now? I was only suggesting berries as a means to entice him to eat anything rather than nothing. Hay is the best thing both for teeth and tummy. A bun with dental issues often goes off hay. Frantically chewing cardboard can be a sign of dental issues in a bun.

                                                                          (Vienn:. It’s not always, esp not if a bunny has a preference for some types of cardboard and ignore others. A bunny with a dental issue can gnaw frantically to alleviate pain in the gums, but sooner or later this will be accompanied by some type of GI issue and/or inappetence. So it can’t be used as an only symptom to diagnose dental probs.)


                                                                        • Theodorusrex
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                                                                            He nibbled yesterday but still didn’t eat much – took him all day to eat 2tbsp of pellets but he managed them along with some coriander. He’s in good form though – running about as usual. He has pooped but maybe only once in the last 24 hours. He seems to have a bit more appetite this morning but still slow. So he’s definitely doing better. On Saturday he wouldn’t eat anything so some nibbling is a small victory and his poops have improved – they were so tiny on saturday it was really worrying.

                                                                            My husband and I were debating whether to do a change of food with him once him tum settles. There’s molasses in the Burgess we feed him and I wonder if that could be contributing. We also do feed kale a few times a week so we’re gonna cut that out and stick to romaine and herbs and continue to cut out all sugary fruits etc. Poor Theo and as I’ve said have a chat to the vet. He said last time that it could take months for his appetite to return to normal after his stasis bout but it’s the randomly stopping eating that worries me.


                                                                          • Vienna Blue in France
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                                                                              @bam – thanks for the info – she is more in a bunstruction mode when she’s doing it…. quite happy ripping her cardboard home into bits from the Inside out !


                                                                            • GeorgieTheBunny
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                                                                                A couple days ago on this thread you were discussing willow branches as a possible encouragement to eat. I know you said Theo wasn’t wildly taken with willow but it’s worth supplying to him.

                                                                                I remembered some alternate medicine while reading this thread; willow bark contains a chemical called salicin that is similar to aspirin, so not only will it help grind teeth if he chews it but has the benefit of some pain relief.

                                                                                Good luck with the vet


                                                                              • Q8bunny
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                                                                                  Aspirin’s active ingredient (acetylsalicylic acid) is indeed derived from the salicin found in the inner bark of the willow tree. Many indigenous populations and some neo- whatsits nowadays brew scrapings of inner willow bark to make a pain-relieving tisane. Unfortunately, in the long term, it irritates bunny tums. Fortunately, there’s not enough of it ingested through chewing willow twigs to worry about.


                                                                                • Theodorusrex
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                                                                                    The link between willow and aspirin was lodged in the back of my pharmacist mind somewhere but I had totally forgotten. Theo’s not fussed on willow sometimes but he has some there should he take the notion.

                                                                                    We had the vet today. Theo given clean bill of health, tummy, ears, teeth, mouth, weight, bum, eyes all checked thoroughly. Vet didn’t think bloods etc were necessary at this point. He’s recommended us to up his fibre as much as possible so pushing hay, maybe getting a couple of kinds, introducing a fibafirst (30 % fibre) stick per day, and changing his food to a higher fibre one (changing from Burgess (19% fibre) to Supreme Science Selective which has 25% fibre). I’m gonna continue with the probiotics and cut out the sugary foods. The vet said he recommended plenty of cabbage, broccoli and kale as an ideal veg with some herbs thrown in, I think I’m going to go ahead and ignore that advice seeing as they’re all gassy?! I was shocked because this vet knows his stuff about rabbits


                                                                                  • jerseygirl
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                                                                                      I was just coming to this thread to suggest trying Science Selective. Otherwise, you might have to trial a pellet free diet. Some stasis prone rabbits do better off of pellets altogether.

                                                                                      The vet said he recommended plenty of cabbage, broccoli and kale as an ideal veg with some herbs thrown in, I think I’m going to go ahead and ignore that advice seeing as they’re all gassy?! I was shocked because this vet knows his stuff about rabbits

                                                                                      They are known to be gassy veggies for humans but rabbits digest things differently. Having said that, some rabbits do have problems with some of those veggies. Either causing some loose stools or tummy upset. It sort of depends on the individual rabbit.
                                                                                      Calcium and oxalate levels are more cause for concern, so you’d want to only give limited amounts if you were to feed them.


                                                                                    • Theodorusrex
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                                                                                        Yeah, I’m anxious about changing his food but I’m sure it will be fine if I do it very slowly. I have read that some bunnies don’t take to science selective so quickly, as there’s no added sugar and Theo’s a fussy buggar sometimes so we shall see.

                                                                                        Yeah I’d always read to avoid cabbage and keep broccoli to small amounts due to causing gas, and to keep kale to occasional feeding due to the oxalates. So frustrating so many conflicting sources out there. The vet was suggesting I should feed all three everyday which couldn’t be good, especially with Theo’s delicate digestive tract at the mo.

                                                                                        Hopefully these changes will help get Theo back on the right track, its comforting to know that his teeth have actually improved since our last dental check up (praise the lord for oxbow hay!) so thats one good thing.

                                                                                        Thanks again everyone for support/imput/suggestions/advice. My husband and I really appreciate it, we just want our little boy to be healthy again and the last few weeks have been exhausting and worrying – you guys are all stars thank you.


                                                                                      • jerseygirl
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                                                                                          The vet was suggesting I should feed all three everyday which couldn’t be good, especially with Theo’s delicate digestive tract at the mo.

                                                                                          Definitely go with your instincts. You know Theo best.

                                                                                          So glad to see he is on the mend. : )


                                                                                        • jerseygirl
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                                                                                            Yeah I’d always read to avoid cabbage and keep broccoli to small amounts due to causing gas, and to keep kale to occasional feeding due to the oxalates. So frustrating so many conflicting sources out there.

                                                                                            It is confusing and what is fine for one rabbit may not be for another. Some seem to have iron guts. Even with healthy treats like willow that was mentioned. This is something I often use when I have a rabbit with tummy troubles and is one of the few things they’ll want to eat, along with rose leaves. I also give it as a treat to my rabbits. But one of them I give less then the others because with him, it seems to make him hot-headed and bratty and then quiet the next day. Another treat is rolled oats, which most love, but I had one bunny who the next day would be a bit off her food. A friend of mine with 7 rabbits cannot give one banana as it upsets his gut. Her other 6 have no trouble with it. It’s just such an individual thing.

                                                                                            It may take some time but you’ll know what are the safe foods for Theo. It may be he doesn’t tolerate any commerical greens or pellets and does better on a diet of foraged food like a wild rabbit.


                                                                                          • Theodorusrex
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                                                                                              Yeah you’re so right Jersey. It’s so individual. This is new to me though because theo tolerated everything really well until his stasis bout. I think it will take some relearning to adjust to his new needs.

                                                                                              Fibasticks went well just gave him his first one and he won’t touch it ? I even broke it up and mixed in with his probiotics which he loves but nope! He fished the probiotics out. He is such a picky little devil


                                                                                            • Bam
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                                                                                                I bought these pellets for my Yohio when he had tummy trouble earlier this summer and had to go to the vet:
                                                                                                http://www.vetuk.co.uk/rabbit-food-vetcare-plus-rabbit-food-c-649_650_1301/vetcare-plus-digestive-health-formula-1kg-p-5639


                                                                                              • Vienna Blue in France
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                                                                                                  Is it something that effects “little” rabbits more – there don’t seem to be as many big rabbits that complain of GI stasis (she says touching wood whilst typing!)… or is my imagination? Or are we in a minority on here?


                                                                                                • Theodorusrex
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                                                                                                    Bam are those to be fed instead of regular pellets? Were they helpful?


                                                                                                  • Q8bunny
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                                                                                                      Huzzah! Well that’s good news.
                                                                                                      Now it’s just a matter of sticking with what works and finding good stuff to replace what doesn’t quite work. I know – easier said than done. (((squeeze and noserub)))


                                                                                                    • Bam
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                                                                                                        The pellets are fed instead of regular pellets. Yohio’s poop got bigger. I think it’s primarily for rabbits that can’t/won’t eat enough hay. It probably doesn’t beat hay, if Theo is a good hay-eater he shouldn’t need them. But it is made for buns that are prone to digestive upset and regular inappetence.

                                                                                                        They’re very big, long pellets, like 8-10 cm. They weren’t expensive and I was ordering some other stuff anyway, so I gave them a try. Yohio’s tummy has been well since, but for the most part his tummy is well “all of it’s own”, so that might just as well be coincidental. 


                                                                                                      • narkut
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                                                                                                          I’m sorry I do not have any further suggestions to add to the group but I have my fingers crossed for Theo!
                                                                                                          How is he doing now? Has his health improved?


                                                                                                        • Theodorusrex
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                                                                                                            Those pellets could be a good option bam will keep those in mind if we still see no improvement with the fibafirst and science selective – I see a lot of positive reviews, the ingredients are similar to science selective with addition of mint and camomile. He eventually started nibbling on his fibafirst stick last night – hoorah. Going to go pick up some science selective from the store tonight and start him on some tomorrow. I have a feeling he will just pick the excel out and ignore the science selective for a few days but I shall persevere.

                                                                                                            Thanks narkut – He is doing a little better thanks – his appetite is slowly improving as is his toiletting – just hoping it stays that way!


                                                                                                          • ergodic
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                                                                                                              As to the Supreme Science Selective I had a vet recommend it for George after his ulcer. She said that rabbit have an easier time digesting the extruded pellets/it is easier on their stomachs. I do recommend braking them up into smaller bits. I have heard rabbit choking on them before.

                                                                                                              I hope Theo keeps improving


                                                                                                            • Bam
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                                                                                                                Redbunbun’s Sukka is a megacolon bunny i.e. a bun with a chronic GI-condition. She saw improvement with Supreme Science selective when she switched from Burgess Excel.


                                                                                                              • Vienna Blue in France
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                                                                                                                  Posted By Vienna Blue in France on 8/23/2016 2:01 PM

                                                                                                                  Is it something that effects “little” rabbits more – there don’t seem to be as many big rabbits that complain of GI stasis (she says touching wood whilst typing!)… or is my imagination? Or are we in a minority on here?

                                                                                                                  ?


                                                                                                                • Theodorusrex
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                                                                                                                    We’ve started with selective science today and he actually ate them! yay

                                                                                                                    I don’t know Vienna, I wonder if larger rabbits, being larger have a slightly more robust gut perhaps? You are right though I’ve rarely heard of Giants or anything with GI stasis


                                                                                                                  • ergodic
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                                                                                                                      That is great, Theo keep eating well.

                                                                                                                      I wonder if stasis in smaller rabbits might be stress related. My smaller buns seems to be a little more stressy than my big bun.


                                                                                                                    • Vienna Blue in France
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                                                                                                                        or bigger tubes, so they take longer to close down…??


                                                                                                                      • ergodic
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                                                                                                                          Maybe the bigger tubes/stomach means gas has more room/volume to expand into without causing displacement of the stomach wall?


                                                                                                                        • Odette
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                                                                                                                            I am glad Theo likes the Selective Science. I know that is a huge relief. I hope you feel better, sweet boy.

                                                                                                                            Vienna, my theory is that some small breeds are weaned too soon.

                                                                                                                            I know Odette’s mother was sold when she was four weeks old. I don’t have a lot of respect for the breeder after finding that out.

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                                                                                                                        Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Theo not eating again, at the end of my tether with this :'(