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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Blood in urine

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    • Poorvi
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        Need urgent help! I think there’s blood in my buns urine, but I am not sure, it’ maybe just red pigments (cause she has been on antibiotics and pro-biotics for 4 days now) She is a dutch rabbit and about 3 years old and not sterilized. I live in India and I have already lost 2 of my bunnies cause of mistakes of vets here and I dont want to risk taking her to them again. Someone please advice here.

        I have attached pictures, if anyone can figure out.


      • LittlePuffyTail
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          It’s really hard to say with a picture. Has she been eating anything red or orange lately? Lots of carrots or red dandelions can make the urine more red.

          One thing you can try is to put some hydrogen peroxide on the wet pee. If it is blood, the peroxide will really bubble.


        • Poorvi
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            She did eat a bit of carrot, but that was like 24 hours ago, does the pigment stay so long? I also read somewhere that antibiotics also change the colour to red. I’ll try to procure hydrogen peroxide but I am not sure where I could get it from :/


          • jerseygirl
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              Did you see this pee puddle as soon as she did it or notice it later? Pee that has been exposed to the air starts to oxidize and take on reddish brown colour.
              You could try line her litter box with several layers of paper towel and see what the pee looks like after she’s soiled it. Blood in urine normally comes out last and will appear in the centre of the pee spot.

              Is she on antibiotics for a urinary issue?


            • Poorvi
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                I noticed the pee minutes after she did it. She’s in antibiotics for a respiratory infection. Also she doesn’t really use the litter box as much as she’s cage free and pretty much dirties my room.


              • LBJ10
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                  Uniform reddish color in pee is likely due to plant pigments, oxidation or antibiotics. Blood is generally a streak or blob in the middle of an otherwise normal looking pee spot.


                • Poorvi
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                    So it is blood since it came again this time and it was very clear. Took her to the vet and they said it’s a bacterial infection of the bladder. Her bladder is very inflated. They gave antibiotics and a blood coagulation injection. What I’m concerned about is there has been a lot of blood loss and even though today there is only a streak of blood as opposed to yesterday when there was a puddle, the thing is she might be losing too much blood. The vet has given enrofloxacin injectable to be given for 7 days minimum and then oral suspension. Someone please advice as to what can be done now.


                  • Q8bunny
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                      ((((((get well soon, bunbun))))))


                    • LittlePuffyTail
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                        I’m sorry your bunny is unwell. I don’t have any help I can offer but want to wish your bunny ((((speedy recovery))))


                      • LBJ10
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                          Did they test her urine?
                          I also have to ask this, is she spayed? Blood in the urine can originate from the uterus (if your girl hasn’t been spayed). I just want to cover all bases here since you said you don’t trust the vet.


                        • Poorvi
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                            So update for now is that she’s on enrofloxacin but has stopped eating so I’m force feeding oxbow critical care for a day now. My mother who’s a doctor suspects there maybe some growth in the vagina which is causing so much bleed but the radiologist who did the ultrasound said it’s all clear so we don’t know. But then they don’t know much bout rabbits anyway. We have given blood coagulation meds which may have lessened the bleeding since the blood in her urine has lessened. Can anyone advice on any pain medications for her? Cause I’m thinking she must be in a lot of pain and maybe that’s why stopped eating.


                          • Poorvi
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                              Can anyone tell me what happens when a rabbit is over dosed on enrofloxacin? It seems my vet has been giving her 50mg everyday for 2 days unknowingly which is quite a high dose. The first day she lost her appetite completely. Yesterday though I gave her some b complex and periactin so she ate when I hand Fed her. So anyone who could tell me if we should continue giving the antibiotic or should we stop for today cause it may cause toxicity in liver or other side effects.


                            • Aki
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                                For pain, it’s Metacam. It’s safe and works pretty well.
                                I can’t tell you for enrofloxacin.
                                You cant’ tell without an ultrasound (or x rays at the very least) but my first thought with blood in the urine for a 3 year old doe is uterine / ovarian cancer. Spaying is the only way to cure it, and it has to be done fast before it metastases everywhere. It’s a very common operation in my country, but I can understand your dilemma if the vets aren’t very good concerning rabbits where you live. Truth be told, it got really better in the past 10 years in France, so it’s very recent – I had guinea pigs as a child and the veterinary care was still atrocious, I lost one of them after a butchered neutering and I was really scared when I had my first rabbit spayed.


                              • Poorvi
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                                  I got an ultrasound but the vet said she has chronic uti. Nothing else. But can’t trust them here since they have little or no knowledge about rabbits internal systems. I had a question though. For cancer in a doe, it is possible to determine it without an ultrasound? Like maybe with blood works? Since mom is a doctor we can get her blood to a human lab to check for cancer cells I think. If someone who has a reliable vet could ask and confirm please I would be so grateful.


                                • Aki
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                                    Does she have like urine burns? (loss of hair, red skin around her vent area) That’s a very common side effect of UTI and not a side effect of cancer.
                                    Article about uterine cancer:
                                    http://rabbit.org/tumors-in-rabbits/

                                    As far as I know, the normal way to determine tumors is x-ray, ultrasound, sometimes you can feel something with palpation (I wouldn’t attempt it and risk hurting the rabbit without knowing what you’re doing). Your mum should know : if you can determine the presence of cancer cells for human with a blood test (I think you can?) then it’s possible for rabbits too.
                                    I would try asking your questions to Dana Krempel who is really good for everything rabbit related (she’s got a Ph d in biology). I read really good articles from her and from what I’ve seen, she answers people and seem quite reliable. Maybe she can help you a bit:

                                    http://www.allexperts.com/ep/703-35789/Rabbits/Dana-Krempels-Ph-D.htm

                                    I hope your rabbit gets better soon…


                                  • Poorvi
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                                      Can anyone tell me how long does a rabbit have blood in urine even afterr treatment has started? It is the 6th day now of enroflaxacin and though there was no bleeding yesterday, there was fresh blood in the urine today again. i am really worried that it may not be just a UTI. Does anyone have any experience in this aspect?
                                      And thank you Aki I have posted on Dana Krempel’s forum. Hope she replies soon.
                                      There are urine scalds as well. But I am thinking now, that since even after 5 days of antibitoics bleeding hasnt stopped could it be a uti as well as something else that is causing the bleed.


                                    • LBJ10
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                                        Sorry I’m late getting back to this. I don’t think cancer cells will necessarily show in a blood test unless the cancer has metastasized. If this is uterine cancer, there is a good chance it is still isolated. In the earlier stages, no cancer cells in the blood does not mean no cancer. The only way to know for sure is to do a biopsy. Most people just opt to do a spay ASAP. This is because you want to remove the cancerous growth BEFORE it spreads (if it hasn’t already). Plus the added cost of doing the biopsy isn’t worth it for most people when they can simply have their bunny spayed.

                                        While a vet does look for white blood cells and blood in the urine when looking for signs of a UTI, any blood in the urine is generally not visible to the naked eye. The blood cells are observed using a microscope. I suppose if the infection was really bad, there might be some visible blood. But the volume that you are seeing suggests to me that this is not a UTI. Now I’m not a vet, but I’m speaking from experience from things I’ve witnessed on the forum over the years. Since your bunny is unspayed, it seems more likely that this is originating from the uterus. It may not be cancer, since there are things like uterine infections that can occur, but everything so far seems to be pointing in that direction. I would suggest trying to find a vet that can safely do a spay. Do you have any animal shelters that regularly spay/neuter bunnies? You may be able to find a vet that way.

                                        As for infections and antibiotics, it’s hard to say for sure how long it would take for symptoms to diminish. Depending on the infection, some bunnies get worse before they get better. I know with upper respiratory infections and ear infections that are particularly stubborn, it can take several weeks.


                                      • Poorvi
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                                          I see. My mom is taking her to a vet now. I have suggested that they look at the possibility of the uterine cancer or problems in the reproduction system. there are vets here who are experienced at neutering but none with experience of spaying a rabbit. The pool of blood is usually not mixed with the urine. And there is quite a pool. She also seems to be straining while peeing if that helps. As far as spaying is concerned, I feel like what if i get her spayed but she doesnt survive the surgery. But now that it’s crucial for her survival I think it leaves me no choice. The vets are not able to form a diagnosis which is the biggest problem right now. We dont know what we are treating anymore.


                                        • Poorvi
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                                            I see. My mom is taking her to a vet now. I have suggested that they look at the possibility of the uterine cancer or problems in the reproduction system. there are vets here who are experienced at neutering but none with experience of spaying a rabbit. The pool of blood is usually not mixed with the urine. And there is quite a pool. She also seems to be straining while peeing if that helps. As far as spaying is concerned, I feel like what if i get her spayed but she doesnt survive the surgery. But now that it’s crucial for her survival I think it leaves me no choice. The vets are not able to form a diagnosis which is the biggest problem right now. We dont know what we are treating anymore.


                                          • Poorvi
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                                              I see. My mom is taking her to a vet now. I have suggested that they look at the possibility of the uterine cancer or problems in the reproduction system. there are vets here who are experienced at neutering but none with experience of spaying a rabbit. The pool of blood is usually not mixed with the urine. And there is quite a pool. She also seems to be straining while peeing if that helps. As far as spaying is concerned, I feel like what if i get her spayed but she doesnt survive the surgery. But now that it’s crucial for her survival I think it leaves me no choice. The vets are not able to form a diagnosis which is the biggest problem right now. We dont know what we are treating anymore.


                                            • Poorvi
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                                                I see. My mom is taking her to a vet now. I have suggested that they look at the possibility of the uterine cancer or problems in the reproduction system. there are vets here who are experienced at neutering but none with experience of spaying a rabbit. The pool of blood is usually not mixed with the urine. And there is quite a pool. She also seems to be straining while peeing if that helps. As far as spaying is concerned, I feel like what if i get her spayed but she doesnt survive the surgery. But now that it’s crucial for her survival I think it leaves me no choice. The vets are not able to form a diagnosis which is the biggest problem right now. We dont know what we are treating anymore.


                                              • Poorvi
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                                                  So the vet just felt ollie and said tumors can only be felt, they don’t come up in ultrasounds and since he didnt feel any palpitations there is no cancer/tumor in the uterus. I doubt this is a comprehensive method. We did take an x-ray which came out clear according to the vet. He has told us to put her off all antibiotics and has given some nazi drops to be given instead and animal strata. I don’t know how good this course of action is. Someone please advice.


                                                • Poorvi
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                                                    Need some help again. The bleeding still continues in large amounts. And on top of that she’s had loose motions for over a week now. I’ve been feeding her oxbow critical care but even that’s nearly over now and it has to be shipped from abroad which takes around a month. Her stool sample showed an over growth of fungus in it. Does anyone have any experience with fungus? Is it possible the fungus has damaged the kidney and is also causing the loose motions? My mother and I are just speculating here. We don’t have any experienced vets for spaying her. So I’m hoping that there’s something else we can do. Surgery will have to be our last resort. Also in her condition she may not even survive the surgery. Any opinions as to what can be done now? The fungus growth is a major cause of concern since fungus is the most difficult to treat.


                                                  • Bam
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                                                      I’m thinking endometriosis as a cause for the blood. We recently had a bunny who was spayed without symptoms other than behavioral, this bunny’s uterus was full of blood but no cancer. It was only detected upon the ovario-hysterectomy, but if the owner hadn’t opted to have the bun spayed, sooner or later there would have been visible blood.

                                                      Fungus is difficult to treat. I still believe cholestyramine would be an alternative since it sequesters toxins. And treatment with bunny probiotics. I know you have Anima-strath in India, it contains brewer’s yeast, a fungus (yeast is a fungus) that is prevalent in the rabbit cecum and has been shown to improve gut health in rabbits. If you’re giving her an anti-fungal, it’d of course kill the good yeast too.


                                                    • Poorvi
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                                                        Thanks for the answer Bam that was helpful.
                                                        Cholestrymine is not available here I think. Moms a doctor so we tried every chemist store but people have never heard of it. Maybe it goes by a different name here?
                                                        Fungus treatment is long and difficult but we have to do something. Can’t sit like it. For the spaying I’ve talked to a vet who has very little experience but experience nevertheless. I think at this point something is better than nothing
                                                        But Ollie isn’t a good candidate for surgery as she’s having these charcoal black small poops for 5 days now. Don’t know the reason behind it, but with loose motions she won’t survive the surgery so can’t take her in just yet.
                                                        Any ideas on how to fix her poop?


                                                      • Bam
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                                                          I think she needs more fiber, so keep up the Critical Care. Tiny black but firm and round poop are way better than mushy poop, but it does sound like she needs more food in her tum. If you suspect a guy slowdown but are confident there’s no blockage, you can buy ranitidine (Zantac) OTC, 1/10 of a 150 mg pill for humans is suitable for a 3 kg bun. I know it’s available in some parts of India. Your mum will know about this med, of course.
                                                          You will need to get her to regain some of her strenght before any type of surgery.


                                                        • Poorvi
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                                                             this is the x-ray taken, the vet said it shows no uterine cancer or bladder stone but the blood still keeps coming. I think I’ll just have to take her in for a spay.

                                                            But now the problem is she is passing poops like these

                                                            .

                                                            this has been on for a week now, first 5 days she was on critical care, but last 3 days shes started eating on her own but in very little quantities. So this is what her poop looked like the first day after she ate. It still remains quite similar to this today, which is 2 days after the picture was taken.

                                                            I don’t know exactly why this is not getting fixed, cause all I am giving her is timothy hay. Can someone tell me how to fix her gut? cause only then can I take her for the next crucial step i.e. spaying.


                                                          • Bam
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                                                              Thank you for the x-ray. So glad there were no bad findings.

                                                              The poop you see means she’s been eating too little and her gut has slowed down a bit. It’s very typical of that. It’s still very much better than runny poop etc, this is not indicative of any illness, just of too little food. You often see this after a spay/neuter when the bun has been under anesthesia and hasn’t eaten like it normally does.
                                                              Hay is great, the best for a bunny tummy, but the bun needs to eat quite a lot of it, and if she’s not feeling quite right, she might eat less than she needs and/or drink less water than she needs. Supplementing with Critical Care would be good imo. Don’t stuff her with it, obviously, up the amount of food slowly and gradually with several small servings (4-5) over the day.

                                                              To me this looks hopeful. I have seen poop exactly like this in my buns and it has always been completely fixable. But it often takes a bit longer than just a couple of days for the tummy to get itself right again.

                                                              I do of course think a spay could get rid of the bleeding-issue, but first things first. Since she is still bleeding, food is extra important because she is loosing iron. (Don’t supplement directly with iron, it has a constipating effect. Your mother will know this, of course.)


                                                            • Poorvi
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                                                                Thank you Bam! So I’ll start her on critical care today with 4-5 feedings during the day. Let’s hope she gets better soon cause I had a chat with Dr.Dana on her forum and she said that many a times uterine cancer does not show up in any reports and is only seen as behavioural abnormalities or clinical signs. So I’m thinking the blood in her urine maybe cause of that itself, as the kidney function is good (as shown by urinanalysis) and no stones in bladder or sludge. So it’s like we have pretty much narrowed down the source of the blood to the uterus. What do you think?


                                                              • Bam
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                                                                  Dana Krempels is THE bunny expert, so I’d trust her without hesitation. Whether this is full-blown cancer or another uterine problem that very likely will develop into cancer, spaying your girl as soon as she has regained her strenght is the route to go.

                                                                  Make the CC runny so she gets extra water and the portion sizes small to begin with.

                                                                  Keeping my fingers crossed for her and you!


                                                                • Poorvi
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                                                                    I see. So let’s hope she recovers soon. My office won’t give me anymore holidays now though
                                                                    How long is the recovery period after a spay? Also she’s ready to eat zupreem rabbit pellets (not much) so should I feed her that or stick to critical care?

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                                                                Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Blood in urine