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The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.
› Forum › HOUSE RABBIT Q & A › Help! Possible respiratory distress?
The good news is…the dried mass of food in Peter’s stomach is GONE!! But the bad news is…I could just be being paranoid since I’m hyper sensitive to everything he does right now, but it looks to me like he may be breathing somewhat hard and fast? Unfortunately both the bunny vets are closed today. There is another vet I could take him to, but they aren’t that specialized in bunnies, and if it’s a respiratory issue I’m weighing the positives and negatives of stressing him out and possibly making it worse for a very that may not be that knowledgeable. I have uploaded two short videos of Peter to Dropbox demonstrating the way he’s breathing, one with him sitting up, and one laying down.
Video 1: https://db.tt/qY3sTgW2
Video 2: https://db.tt/uiuVQnhE
I’m a little worried that he may have aspirated some water at some point when I’ve been syringing it to him. The video with him sitting up exemplifies what seems to me like he might be pointing his nose a little upward? He’ll sit in that position for hours…which doesn’t seem comfortable to me. He’s not making any noise when he breathes, and I’ve listened to his lungs with a stethoscope and don’t think I heard any noises I’m there either. Granted, I don’t have the best stethoscope and I don’t know what I’d be listening for.
Additionally, I was unable to get it on camera, but every once in a while his entire body hitches once or twice, almost like a cough, except he doesn’t make any noise when he does it, and he doesn’t open his mouth. Not sure what this is?
Thanks in advance!
Well that is excellent news ! I’ve been watching this thread
I didn’t watch the videos because to be honest, I’d not know what I was looking for.
I’m not sure if this is possible, but I have seen BB have what looked like hiccups once. Scared the living hell out of me but it only lasted a few seconds. Not sure bunnies can have hiccups ?
Yeah he’s had hiccups before, and this isn’t that. It’s different. I could just be seeing patterns where there are no patterns…but I’ve learned not to ignore the little observations.
The little things are the most important
Oh no, he is letting his mouth hang open a little. Here is the video. Granted, this was right after I gave him his sub-q fluids, so he is SUPER stressed in this video and the effect is more pronounced. But it shows out none the less:
Still not making any noise, just breathing heavy.
I don’t know what to do! Do I take him to the vet that’s less familiar with bunnies, stress him out more and possibly make it worse if he has a respiratory problem? Or do I wait until Monday and take him to my bunny vet? Is this an emergency? What do I do?
They can get so much gas in their tummy that it presses up on the lungs. Does his tummy feel distended? You can give simethicone together with the other meds if you like.
I’m so happy the lump is gone, when you first wrote it I barely dared believe it. But this doesn’t sound good. A bun that has trouble breathing through his nose will point his chin upwards.
His belly does feel a little distended, but not that much.
So you think the problem is his nose and not his lungs? That would make sense since his lungs sound clear.
Is this an emergency? Should I take him to thevet that doesn’t know as much about bunnies and risk making his condition worse due to the stress? Or should I wait until Monday?
Why do things always happen on the weekends!?
If it’s his nose, it’s not an emergency. If it were his lungs, I think you’d hear some ominous noises. If it is his nose it can be a mechanical obstruction or an upper respiratory infection, but I’d think you’d see som discharge then. Is his gums and tongue normal pink?
This is an informative article that you might or might not have read, I’m pasting the link anyway. There’s some scary stuff in it, but as you can see your bun is not displaying signs of severe respiratory distress like the bun on two of the article’s pics:
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Respiratory/Bacterial/URI.htm
Ugh, he seems to be getting worse. He’s still not making any noise, no coughing, no sneezing, no discharge, no noise in the lungs, and his gums and tongue are the same color as Little-Bit’s. But his panting seems to be more pronounced.
I don’t know what to do! Is there anything I can do?
I have some Enrofloxacin left over from when the vet originally prescribed it for him a month ago for his stasis issues. Should I go ahead and give him some? It seems like the article lists it as a possible treatment for both upper respiratory and lower respiratory issues. Could it hurt anything?
Any input anyone?
I feel like I’m falling him. There has to be something I can do.
The Baytril (enrofloxacine) can help if this is caused by bacteria. The risk with antibiotics is that the tummy might suffer since both good and bad bacteria are killed indescriminately. You always have to weigh that risk against the possible benefits.
You are not failing him. You are like the diametrical opposite of failing him.
Well he’s already on Metronidazole for his Clostridium, so the good bacteria are probably already upset. Given the circumstances, I think I at least ought to try it.
You can give him simethicone in case it’s gas. If it doesn’t help, it won’t hurt either. Is he moving around? Is he eating anything at all? When do your regular vet open?
I found a thread where Dr. Krempels suggests children’s Benadryl in a similar situation where the person could not get to the vet:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/2009/12/Bunny-trouble-breathing.htm
My only concern is that Benadryl might interact with any of the medications he’s currently on: Metronidazole, Cisapride, metaclopramide, and Meloxicam.
I don’t think it’s gas, I’ve been giving him Simethicone. My vet doesn’t open until tomorrow.
Also, he’ll eat a little bit of critical care. But this has been the case for weeks due to his clostridium.
Yes, benadryl can be given to buns, I know LBJ10 has given it to one of hers, but I don’t know about the interactions. I haven’t found any drug interaction checker for veterinary meds online. I myself take antihistamines (not benadryl though) almost every day for allergies (hay mostly) and it’s not a med that interferes with antibiotics. It works on the histamine receptors and can have an effect on the secretion of stomach acid (reducing it), so it’s sometimes used against GERD (in people).
Benadryl makes people sleepy. So it could potentially make a bun sleepy too, histamine is an important signal-substance regulating wakefulness.
Should I be concerned that it would make him drowsy? The only thing I’d be concerned about is 1. His body temperature dropping, and 2. He’s reputation rate slowing off he needs more air.
I went ahead and gave him the Baytril. I feel like it’s one of the only things I can do at this point.
Well, as you know I’m absolutely not a vet but I honestly don’t think it will do any harm, it’s a bunny-safe ab, he’s had it before, it’s commonly the first choice for a respiratory infection – and it is at least sth.
Antihistamines of the old type (benedryl is old-type) has been linked to respiratory depression in SIDS. There are other, newer, antihistamines that don’t cause drowsiness. I use ceterizine. It’s very safe for dogs, but I don’t know with bunnies. I’ve given it to my dog when she was stung by many wasps on the same occasion, as per my vet’s order.
His body temp will probably drop because his metabolism rate would drop, esp if he’s still on Metacam. You’d have to deal with that by giving him a hot water bottle or by keeping him in your lap so your own body warms him.
I’ll have to read what Dana Krempels said about benedryl, but I don’t think she’d recommend it to a bun with respiratory problems unless she considered it safe.
The Dana Krempels article says to instill the Benadryl drops through the nose, is this correct? How onearth do you do that?
I’m sorry I don’t have any advice for you but just want to offer some (((Healing Vibes))) and let you know I’m thinking of you and rooting for a quick recovery!
I’ve never heard of giving drops via the nasal route. You’d have to elevate the head and drop into the nostrils, like you did in the olden days with nose-drops for kids I guess. I suppose it’s meant to have some local, de-congestive effect on the nasal tissues.
You could try first with one nostril, then he has the other nostril as a reserve in case it’s not a success.
I just want to be careful about irritating the nasal passageway if it’s already irritated, you know? Would it work the same way if I just have it to him orally?
I think perhaps the idea is to make the bun’s nasal passage less irritated by applying the drops directly there. They would then have both a local, direct effect + a systemic from the drops that the bun swallows. The effect on the nasal passage is more swift if you apply the drops directly in it. Anti-histamines inhibit histamine-mediated inflammatory responses.
Antihistamines have a decongestant effect if you take them by mouth as well, but I’m thinking Dana Krempels probably has a reason for recommending them to be taken nasally, since it is not the most common route. In a human you’d use nasal sprays with corticosteroids as nasal passage decongestants, but bunnies shouldn’t be treated with corticosteroids, Dana Krempels always advices against corticosteroids for buns.
Eye-drops with anti-histamines have both a quick, localized effects on the eyes and a systemic (they get absorbed by the body).
I’m just trying think of how on earth I’d even get the drops into such tiny nostrils. And how much? What is the dosage for a bunny for nasal Benadryl? What about the dosage for oral Benadryl?
I found what LBJ10 wrote about Benedryl she’d given her Wooly:
“I got the children’s liquid benedryl, 12.5 mg/ml solution. It’s cherry flavored. The vet said to mix 1/2 teaspoon per 1 cup of water. Wooly was 3.4 lbs at the time (according to the sheet). So I’m not sure exactly what the proper dosage is, but that is what the vet prescribed for MY bunny.
I will warn you though, it does make them drowsy. I had no problem getting Wooly to drink it though, he probably thought the cherry flavored water was great.”
2015-08-10
LBJ10
As you can see, she gave it by mouth even if it was for his sinuses. It has a systemic effect, so I’d probably just just give it by mouth.
Gosh I’m torn about whether to give it or not. He already looks SUPER exhausted…having to breathe with your mouth open and point your head up all the time, I assume he hasn’t gotten much sleep. I’m afraid that if I give him Benadryl, one or both of two things will happen:
1. Combined with his exhaustion and inadequate oxygenation, he’ll become so drowsy that he can’t stay alert enough to get enough air into his lungs.
2. The drowsiness will cause his body temperature to plummet, especially combined with the Meloxicam he’s on.
I’m wondering if he may have inhalation pneumonia. The link I posted earlier that Dana Kremples is in, is mentioned that she’s seen cases of pneumonia which presented no audible signs upon listening to the lungs, and results were only identifiable through x Ray.
God, I hope he can hang in there 14 more hours until the vet opens…
Sending (((healing vibes))) for your sweet bunny in distress.
I know some bunnies here have been prescribed bromhexidine, an expectorant. Here it’s OTC and available as a solution for children. I don’t know the dosage. It’s a med I take myself when I have a lower respiratory infection (I get that rather often since I’ve allergic asthma). It helps dissolve thick mucus. It doesn’t make you drowsy.
Hang in there, little guy!
You could perhaps try the tip Dana Krempels gives at the end of her reply ” try to help her by placing her in a bathroom and letting the faucets run HOT to produce steam. This can help loosen mucus and allow drainage. But don’t leave her in there to overheat. About 10-15 minutes at a time is more than sufficient.”
{{{Peter}}}
Keeping you in my thoughts.
Thanks for all your support guys. Unfortunately Peter passed away on the examining table this morning. I’ll be posting a more detailed description of what happened and ‘lessons learned’ along with an RBB tribute shortly.
🙁 I’m so sorry 🙁
Oh, gods, Binkles, I’m so sorry. I’m pretty sure your situation was one all we bunny parents have nightmares about. Our thoughts are with you. (((binky free, little Peter)))
I’m so very sorry, Binkles.
Binky Free Peter. You fought so bravely.
I’m so very sorry…..I was really hoping he would pull through. ((Hugs)))
((((Binky Free Peter))))
Yeah, me too LPT. Thanks guys. <3
Oh Sarah, I’m so sorry!
Was he still bonded with Little-Bit? How’s she doing?
***Binky Free Peter***
Just seeing this Sarah I am so very sorry that Peter has passed away.
I wish I had been here more often, perhaps I could have helped. I’m sorry. If you want to talk you can message me thru here.
Thinking of you at this very sad time. :'(
Sleep well, Peter. xx
I’m very sorry about the loss of Peter.
So sorry for your loss
((( Binky free Peter )))
Thanks guys! <3 Little-Bit is doing okay so far. I've been giving her lots of extra love. I had them separated during the time that Peter was ill so that I could monitor how he was doing (although they were able to make contact through the x-pen, and they had some supervised integration time), so I think this may have ended up acting as a transition for Little-Bit.
Ugh, still feel horrible.
› Forum › HOUSE RABBIT Q & A › Help! Possible respiratory distress?