Listless Bun! Not sure if tummy or something else?

[Dewi2015]

Hello, It’s my first time on here but I’ve been so worried about my 5 month old minilop Dewi!!
About 4 days ago he was producing very small poops but behaving normally otherwise. I encouraged him to eat more hay and fed him some Pro Fibre and Pro C (probiotic) and made sure he was drinking lots. His poops returned to normal but he started to become quite lethargic and wasn’t his usual self. He was still eating and drinking as normal though. I took him to the vet yesterday and she listened to his tummy, checked teeth and feet and ears and looked at his bottom. She ruled out stasis and gas but said he may be having a tummy upset so prescribed .5mL Zantac every 8 hours. He is eating and pooping today (much less enthuasiastic about his food but not turning it away) but he is just hiding in a corner closing his eyes. I’m so worried about him and just don’t know what to do!! I’m not sure if he’s in any pain he just seems slightly uncomfortable. The vet also commented he was underweight (which made me feel so guilty) which must be down to me starting to reduce his pellets a little too much (he’s 5/6 months now).

A bit of background, he has unlimited Timothy hay and water and haygates pellets (1tbsp morning and evening but upped to 1 cup a day now) and also a cup of greens (spinach, watercress, rocket, kale – normally 2 types at once for a few days before varying) every evening.

I’d be really grateful if anyone has been through this or has any advice to share! The vet gave me oxbow critical care and said if he stops eating or pooping give him that and bring him back in straight away).

[LBJ10]

Have you tried massaging his tummy to see if that helps?

[Dewi2015]

Tried tummy massaging and he tolerates it for a bit then hops off! He only really likes being touched on his face and back. Went back to the vet as he developed snuffles (for the second time since I’ve had him) and she prescribed baytril and gave him a shot of reglan. He’s perked up today but is producing these strange poops. They’re big and brown and quite doughy. I think it may be his cecotrpopes (judging from the smell) but they aren’t normally formed. What could this be?

[Bam]

Baytril (and all other types of antibiotics as well) can be hard on the gut. It’s good you’re giving him a probiotic.
Has his poop been perfectly normal until just recently? Is he eating a good amount of hay?

Big, brown doughy poop makes me think of megacolon, a hereditary condition. It tends to affect black/white spotted buns mostly, but it can occur in buns of other color/markings as well.

[Dewi2015]

Yeah apart from today and a week ago when he was doing tiny poos they were normal! He is grinding his teeth now and I’m so worried, waiting for the vet to call me back.

[Bam]

Ask for a pain-killer (Metacam) if he’s grinding his teeth. Pain can worsen any condition and should be relieved. A pain/killer will lower his body temp though so you need to make sure he keeps warm. Wrap him I’m a blanket or offer a hot-water bottle that he can snuggle up to if he likes.
If his poop used to be perfectly normal this is more likely about a disrupted gut flora and not megacolon.

[Dewi2015]

Went to the vet and have some pain medication for him. He’s having diarrhoea now which wasn’t happening before the metoclopramide! So I’m afraid it’s caused it or maybe the baytril or the two together? Trying to feed as much hay as possible but worried the diarrhoea is dangerous???

[Bam]

Diarrhea in bunnies is rare. It’s very watery sometimes with mucus and there’s a lot of it. Loose stools are more common and much less hazardous. If he has diarrhea he’s likely to need sub q fluids since he’ll get dehydrated very quickly. Your vet would have to distribute that. Do you have any Critical Care?
If it’s just loose stools it’s probably the Baytril + the motility drug. I think Critical Care might help.

[Dewi2015]

Just syringe fed about 10mL (he dribbled out the rest!) critical care and also a bit of probiotic too. Will see if his stool gets a bit harder. If I keep syringe feeding is there still a risk of dehydration? Thanks so much for all your advice!!

[Dewi2015]

He’s grinding his teeth again even though he’s had pain medicine! And seems so lethargic. I really don’t know what to do and I’m so so worried

[Bam]

I think you should call your vet again. It sounds like he’s not improving. Maybe he’s reacting to the Baytril or something. If he is, he could perhaps get injections instead of oral Baytril. The risk of dehydration is of course lower if you feed him CC. You always spill a lot when you give CC, so that’s normal. How much Metacam has he had?

[Dewi2015]

He has had baytril before with no problems and the vet gave him an injection with some oral suspension for me to take home (which I haven’t used yet as it’s not been 24hrs since last dose). He had a metacam injection so not sure how much but the vet said give him 10mL every 24 hours. Fed another 10mL critical care and his stool is a bit less runny. Still wet but starting to take form.

[Bam]

That’s good news about the poop! Critical Care really can be a life-saver since it has everything a bun needs.

Metacam is given in 24-hour intervals since it is long-acting. The dose should be calculated considering his weight and the strength of the solution. 10 ml sounds rather a lot to me, but if you have the weaker solution of 0,5 mg/ml, 10 ml would be 5 mg and that’s ok for a bun that weighs a bit over 3 kg (about 7 lbs). It would still be the maximum dose though (Medirabbit says 0,1-0,2 mg up til 1,5 mg per kg). http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Analgesics/safe_analgesics.htm

I’m not sure if I’m doing the math correctly so if you or someone else reading this thread would calculate it too I’d be very happy.
.

[Dewi2015]

Gave a long tummy massage which seemed to soothe him! His tummy made gurgling or almost bubbling noises – is that a good or bad sign? He is still making the noises now after the massage. Is he passing gas?

[Dewi2015]

My mistake sorry!!! 0.35mL

[Bam]

They often do appreciate a gentle tummy rub when there’s gas. Gurgling sound is indicative of gas. It’s good in one way because it means the intestines are moving (peristalis), but the gas needs to get out. I’d say in your case it is a good sign. You can sometimes smell the gas, it smells like cecals. I have even once heard my bunny pass gas, a small shoo-shoo-shooing sound, but that’s rare I’ve understood.

Even if the bun passes some gas, there can be more in production so to speak, so a tummy-rub once every 2 hours is often good. Be very gentle though. Do you have baby gas drops (simethicone)? They might also help breaking up gas-bubbles.

0,35 ml Metacam sounds a lot safer =)

[Dewi2015]

This has just made me concerned that he had gas to begin with and the vet misdiagnosed him and gave him motility drugs unnecessarily causing diarrhea! I will try to get some simethicone from a midnight pharmacy and carry on with belly rubs. He is lying down on his stomach now – does this mean he’s uncomfortable? I honestly can’t thank you enough for all your help!! I have been beside myself with worry!!

[Bam]

No he need not have been misdiagnosed, sometimes when the gut has been slowing down, when it starts again there are a few splurts of loose, sticky, yucky poop rather as if there’d been like a plug of poop. And then there can be gas. It’s like a million times better than a blockage or stasis as long as the gas gets out. The best thing is if he’ll move about on his own.

Does he immediately drop to the floor when you put him down and press his belly down (reminding of a push-up)? If he is, I think you should keep him in your lap, wrapped in a blankie so he keeps warm. And keep giving him CC. There must be food in his tummy for it to right itself.

All of us here know how deeply worrying it is when a bun isn’t well. So if we can relieve a tiny bit of that worry, we are very happy =)

[Dewi2015]

He just seems like he prefers to lie on his front and looks rather relaxed I think. He’s produced some big sloppy poos and is now having liquid stool! Good or bad? Will make sure he is hydrated

[vanessa]

How long is he on antibiotics for? It may be that his belly won’g produce harder stools until the antibiotics are finished?

[Dewi2015]

He’s been on baytril before with no problems so not sure if that’s what’s causing it. He had his first dose yesterday. He is producing so much diarrhea and big soft poos and no normal pellets

[Bam]

You could call your vet and ask, maybe you shouldn’t give more Baytril. It is possible to have an adverse reaction to a drug that you used to tolerate. Liquid poop is definitely not right.

[Dewi2015]

Called the out of hours and they didn’t seem very knowledgeable. Stopped baytril and feeding cc and water and continuing with zantac. I’m so worried he won’t make t through the night and the emergency vets may not help as they don’t seem to know what they’re on about

[Bam]

Zantac is a motility drug, I don’t think you should give anymore of that since his gut is moving quite audibly.
Last time I had a sick bun I sat with him in my lap most of the night, at my desk by my PC, I did massages and gave him Cc and simethicone every 2 hours while his tummy was rumbling. He did come out of it just fine.
ER vets often have very little bunny knowledge. So try to get him through the night so you can get to your good vet when they open.

[Dewi2015]

Just trying to do something for his diarrhea now as that seems to be the main problem! He is still moving around but when he does his stomach makes the loudest sloshing sound! Syringed probiotic and will take your advice and stop Zantac and keep him warm and massaged. If he is hydrated is the diarrhea still an emergency? Don’t know whether to chance it with the out of hours vet or wait til tomorrow to take him to the usual vet. Your bun is lucky to have such a savvy and caring parent!

[Bam]

I can’t tell you whether to go to the off hours vet or not, you have to use your best judgement. Be extremely gentle with his stomach now. It sounds like it’s full of fluids. If he’s moving around you probably shouldn’t do madsages. I think he needs vet care asap but if the vets aren’t bunny savvy it may not be worth the stress of transporting him.
I’m not very bunny savvy but we have terrible ER vets here so that’s why I didn’t take Bam in that night.

[Bam]

I’m going to bed now, just want to send you and your bunny a lot of good vibes and well-wishes.

[Dewi2015]

Took him to the emergency vet and she said he didn’t have an impaction but theyre keeping him in overnight. She says he has a 50/50 chance of surviving. I cried all the way home! He’s on fluid drips and will have things to get his gut moving.

[Bam]

I’m glad they’re keeping him over night. Now he’s getting the best possible care. He will get fluids + electrolytes to replenish what he’s lost. It’s not sth you could do at home.
Sending you so many hugs and so many healing vibes for your bun ((((((get well little bun))))))

[Dewi2015]

Thank you so much for all your support! I will keep you updated. I’m a bag of nerves it’s so horrible.

[Dewi2015]

The vet just called to say he’s stable. Still a lot of diarrhea but some solid poos emerging and his abdomen feels a lot more comfortable! Still not eating but he’s taking the syringe for feed and IV fluids. She said I could bring him home now but I’ve decided to wait til this afternoon so I’m confident I can take care of him at home.

[Bam]

Thank you so much for the update! I think it’s very wise of you to let them keep him until this afternoon since this has been rather a lot for his system.

Continued healing vibes for him (((((((Dewi’s bun))))))

[Dewi2015]

The vet called and asked me to go in. He was really really unwell and we had to put him to sleep

[Bam]

I’m so sorry, Dewi. You tried so hard. It’s terrible to lose a pet. We love them so much.

[vanessa]

I’m so sorry. That’s terribly sad 🙁

[Author]

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