Chronic sinus issues has now blossomed into chronic ear issues

[LBJ10]

I brought this up in the chat thread, but I figured I should start a thread about it. Most of you know that Wooly’s tooth roots cause on and off sinus problems. Bacteria builds up, he becomes congested, we give him antibiotics, he gets sort of better… and repeat. Well, what was a sinus problem has now developed into an ear problem. This is the second time now that I’ve had him seen for an ear infection. Last time, it wasn’t really bad so the vet just cleaned it out and gave us eye drops. This time is pretty darn icky. Yet, it came on rather quickly this time. His ear was swollen and had gunk in it. This was also affecting his tear ducts, so his eye looks funny too (same as last time). I asked about ear drops since it seems like I get more oral medication on him than in him. The vet said that most ear drops contain steroids, but she agreed that something in the ear would probably be our best bet. So we’re doing an experiment. She mixed baytril in a regular ear wash solution (some people use it for their dogs/cats). So basically, he’s getting an antibiotic-laced ear wash twice a day. I’m also supposed to continue with the antibiotic eye drops.

Has anyone had any experience with this? I’m hoping this will be more effective, but I have a feeling there will be ear wash everywhere. LOL

[BinkyBunny]

I had a bunny Rucy who had several tooth root issues that caused eye and sinus problems. She had a couple of surgeries over the years and it would be gone for a few years, and then seem to return. On the last surgery to remove a tooth and root, the vet took a swab of the bacteria deep in the root so she could identify the different bacteria better and prescribe the meds that might finally beat this thing. (Unfortunately Rucy passed away before tests were returned and treatment could start. (unrelated to her tooth issue). I think the problem is if you don’t get at the main problem, this has a tendency to continue. I am sorry I have been out of the loop of previous discussions, so sorry if what I ask already has been. How does the vet know it’s based on the tooth roots? How many teeth are affected?

[LBJ10]

We don’t know 100% for sure that the tooth roots are the cause of the current ear infection. But it’s highly suspect. The vet said I would have to go to a vet teaching hospital in another state to try to have it corrected through surgery.

Anyway, it’s the right side. I’m not sure how many teeth are involved. It has been affecting his sinuses and his right eye. Now his ear is having issues. It’s all connected in there, so I’m sure the bacteria has been getting chased around. We have used several different antibiotics over the years. He gets better and then bacteria builds up again and we treat it again.

I did talk to Megabunny and she said that ear drops/ear wash was probably best too since antibiotics don’t reach the ears very well through the bloodstream.

[LBJ10]

Well, he is not happy about the ear wash It smells, so I suppose I don’t blame him. You know what’s weird? It feels slippery. I looked at the ingredients and it contains simethicone. I guess so it doesn’t get bubbly?

I’m a little concerned about the cecals. He can’t seem to get to them so they get stuck on his butt. I keep having to cut them off. =\

[LBJ10]

Never mind, just did a butt check and we’re all clear. He must be feeling well enough to reach down there.

[LBJ10]

He finally took some banana treats from me. He has been distrustful and was simply flicking his feet at me every time I offered him some. I have noticed he hasn’t been eating as much. There were still pellets in the shared food bowl this morning, so it’s difficult to tell how much he did or didn’t eat. It is unusual for there to be “leftovers” though. I’ve seen him eating hay though so I’m not too worried yet. I’m sure it will take some time before I start seeing real improvement.

[jerseygirl]

Anyway, it’s the right side. I’m not sure how many teeth are involved. It has been affecting his sinuses and his right eye. Now his ear is having issues. It’s all connected in there, so I’m sure the bacteria has been getting chased around.

I often suspect infection can move from nose to ear…

Maple use to sneeze a bit but never had any discharge. I was told if it was bacterial, it would progress so I put the sneezing down to something else.
Later, she developed head-tilt. It was never established if it was due to ear infection or EC but a lot if literature claims ear infection most likely. Anyway, she never sneezed during the illness and never again after recovery. So it made me wonder if there always was a low grade infection in her nasal passages that then moved into the ear…
Or, it may have been the month of metacam that reduced swelling that helped. Idk.

If there is swelling, I wonder if it would pay to have him on anti inflammatory also?

Regarding the chronic “snuffles”, I did read of a treatment protocol that the owner said helped manage her rabbits issues. She routinely used bisolven to get congestion to flow out so that bacteria was less likely to stay trapped in pockets and used metacam to keep swelling down which also allows discharge to flow out. Both these helped the antibiotics be more effective.

I also think that longer courses of antibiotics are needed to truly get in to of nasal an ear infection. 4-6wks. 4 in the very least.

{{{Vibes}}} for Mr Wooly! Hope the treatment is not too stressful on you both.

[Bam]

Jersey, the middle ear and the nose/ mouth are connected via the eustachian tube. Rabbits have eustachian tubes (had to look that up!) So bacteria can travel between ear and pharynx.

Bacteria can linger for the longest times in narrow spaces more or less inert, in biofilms. Those are very tricky to get rid of since most abs target active bacteria. This is why a course of abs often takes away the acute infection and the person or bunny seems well, but soon has a relapse: the abs have not eradicated the reservoir of inert bacteria, and they start to produce and send out active bacteria again as soon as the course of abs is over.

LBJ, I just wish Wooly will get well, I have nothing to say that you don’t already know. (((((Wooly)))))

[LBJ10]

Yep, that’s correct Bam, it’s all connected in there. =\

Jersey – You know, that might not be a bad idea. There was a bit of inflammation in there. Oral antibiotics don’t seem very effective, but it’s also very hard to get them in him. Megabunny talked about using injections with Gus. Maybe I should ask the vet about that.

Wooly doesn’t want any lettuce, which is worrisome. I don’t want to stress him out more by force-feeding. When he gets worked up, it’s hard for him to breathe. His eye looks pretty droopy on that side. I remember last time his eye looked terrible after the vet cleaned his ear. I can’t remember how long it looked like that though. It’s been 3 days since his vet visit.

[LBJ10]

Just got done hand-feeding Wooly some willow leaves. He took those willingly, but it was hard keeping Leopold away! LOL I didn’t dare leave them in a pile because I know he would steal them and devour them all in a matter of seconds. *sigh*

[jerseygirl]

Aw. Tell me you gave Leopold a few aswell lol.

Definitely enquire about pain relief/anti inflamms. I feel like I push these a lot these days on the forums, but I think it’s so important with rabbits.

Just thinking,.. the steroids in the other ear washes are there for a reason right? So if avoiding steroid use, surely replacing with NSAID makes sense… (Just contructing an “argument” for you to use LBJ )

Great info, bam. Thanks for sharing that!

[LBJ10]

Of course that little turd got some as well. :p

Yes, I imagine that antibiotic ear drops have the steroids for a reason and I imagine it has to do with inflammation. So yes, it would make sense to replace it with something more suitable for rabbits. I was reading on Medirabbit that steroids have been used for severe ear infections but they didn’t recommend using them for more than a few days. Right now I don’t think Wooly is that bad, but an anti-inflammatory like Metacam might not be a bad idea.

[LBJ10]

I wish I could tell if he’s improving. He isn’t getting any worse, but it’s hard to tell if there has been much improvement. He ate some lettuce for me today, which makes me feel better. He’s still eating hay, but I’m thinking he’s not really touching the pellets (and Leopold eats them all). He took a treat from me earlier too. He doesn’t seem to hold as much of a grudge every time I do the ear wash now.

[LBJ10]

Update: Wooly sprinted over to me and started doing circles around my feet the second I went in their room this morning. He was begging for a treat even though the treat bag was not in my hand yet. This is very normal for him so I was happy to see his enthusiasm despite his booger nose, droopy ear and weepy eye. His face was actually looking better this morning. It seems like he has a little more control.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Glad to hear he’s acting happy. Boo to face problems….those bunny eyes, ears and noses…sigh…..No one can relate to this more than me….

(((Wooly))))

[LBJ10]

LPT – Yeah, you’ve had to deal with this a lot. The nose problems weren’t too bad, but we’ve had to except that Wooly will probably always be a little “sneezy”. The ear though…. that scares me. Luckily he hasn’t had any true head tilt or dizziness.

[Bam]

I’m glad he looks a bit better and that he begs for food/treats =) That’s progress!

[LBJ10]

Yep Bam, he now feels so much better that he doesn’t just sit there while I grab his ear to put the wash in. *sigh*

[Bam]

Oh =/ That is a good thing of course, but they are a bit easier to deal with when they feel really bad. “What a sweet rabbit, he lies so still!” The x-ray-nurses said about Yohio when he had to go in for stomach trouble this summer.

He is a sweet rabbit, but that time he wasn’t being sweet, he was lethargic.

[LBJ10]

Yeah, he was sitting pretty still and allowing me to put the wash in his ear with little problems before. Now he seems to feel well enough to try to get away and then grunt at me when I have him cornered. He sure didn’t want the eye drops tonight either. He has been able to eat a little better too, although hay is still a little tricky. Stupid me starting giving him willow leaves because they seemed easier for him to eat. Now he thinks he gets some every evening. O_o

[LBJ10]

UPDATE: We are just about 3 weeks out now. I cornered Wooly tonight and got a good bit of ear wash in his ear. He was shaking his head immediately and managed to get some ear wash into my eye! LOL With all that shaking, some dried up chunks of ear wax/gunk came out onto my hand. They were milky white, no signs of blood. After much shaking, scratching, and grooming, he is now holding his ear more normally. I’m taking that as a good sign. I imagine as his ear has been healing, his ear was probably producing more wax/gunk. Now that some has been dislodged, maybe he won’t be holding his ear funny for much longer. The vet is out on Tuesdays, so I will be calling on Wednesday to give an update. I don’t know if she’s going to want to look in there or not.

[Bam]

More progress, yay!

(((((Wooly)))))

[LittlePuffyTail]

That must be a relief for him to get all that gunk out! I so wish I could get all the goop out of Bindi’s ears but it just seems like the more we clean, the more his ears produce and the infections are more frequent.

((((Wooly))))

[LBJ10]

Thanks guys! I’m hoping he will continue to get better. The vet thought maybe he will need ear wash periodically as “maintenance”. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

LPT – Oh gosh, I hope him losing some of the gunk doesn’t mean more will keep taking its place. =\ I don’t like having Wooly’s ears cleaned either. Both times have resulted in added inflammation that caused issues with the tear duct and facial muscles (I suppose that’s to be expected if things are being aggravated). They resolved themselves after the swelling started to go down, but poor Wooly looked awful. Maybe if there isn’t an active infection though, having them cleaned wouldn’t do that. I don’t know. I mean, it does seem to help some….. it just takes awhile.

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