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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Stones in bladder/kidney, not peeing, crying, heeelp

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    • Luna Rose
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      • Mimsy
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          If you can bring her to a vet familiar with rabbits that are not completely outrageously priced you may be able to have her looked at and spayed for 400, depending on what is going on and what type of blood panel needs to be done, if one is needed. If she is in pain and it’s due to an ovarian issue, a spay will fix that, so that would be a top priority. The hormonal issues make it seem likely in my very unprofessional opinion. My concern would be making sure the vet that looks at her can make the judgement that she is healthy enough to be spayed.

          I really feel for you both. I really hate to see any of my pets hurt, and if it’s an unknown cause it is really scary.

          Normal temp for a rabbit is about 101-103, slightly more if they are really stressed out.


        • Bam
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            Try and get a urine sample from her to bring with you to the vet. You do that by cleaning and drying her litter-box and the moment she pees in it, you pour the sample in a jar with a screw-on lid. Urine of course has lots of information both due to what’s there and what isn’t.

            You don’t necessarily need to have her spayed by a specialist vet, but you should do your best and try and find a vet that has done many spays. F ex vets that work with rabbit rescues. If there is a rescue/shelter in your area, you can call and ask what vets they use. Whatever vet you choose must also have the proper equipment to anesthetize rabbits, because that is a little different from anesthetizing cats and dogs.

            Prices can vary lots, so call several clinics to get estimates.

            This does sound like a hormonally driven issue, and girl rabbits do go into “heat-cycles” although not in the same way that dogs do. Rabbits are induced ovulators meaning they ovulate when they are being mated, but other things than proper mating, like f ex humping, may “set the wheels in motion” and then the bunny ovulates and goes through a false pregnancy. And then it starts over. Rabbits have a very high sex-drive, girl rabbits as well as boys.


          • jerseygirl
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              First things first is going to a vet you’re going to be happy with. If you feel comfortable posting your town/city & State, members here may be able to recommend some for you. And possibly some low cost spay options.

              From everything you’ve described, I strongly urge you to get her spayed.

              But I shouldn’t have to go to a ‘special’ vet to get her spayed right? She is 6 pounds so she us bigger than a kitten and kittens get spayed…. So a spay on a bunny is a common and easy procedure right? Plus most vets are capable of doing it right? Sorry for the questions.

              You’ll need a vet with a lot of experience with rabbits. Rabbits are classed as exotics. Many clinics will have a vet with this experience. While vets get some training in exotics, many will choose not to deal with them and even set really high spay/neuter fees to discourage owners bring rabbits to them! So high cost doesn’t always equal experience or speciality.

              Rabbit spay is more complicated – its removal of both ovaries and uterus. Given your girls symptoms, hers may be more complex as she may have some uterine changes happening and increased blood flow to urogential region. Hopefully current symptoms will abate and there will be a more optimum time to have her spayed.

              How are you taking her temp?

              Finance wise, I’d look into insurance through VPI or CareCredit.


            • jerseygirl
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                Welcome to Binky Bunny, by the way. And some {{{vibes}}} for your girl. Hope you can get things sorted out for her.


              • Luna Rose
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                • Luna Rose
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                  • jerseygirl
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                      He sounds promising. : )

                      When she got really sick a month ago I didn’t want her I wait to get into the vet since I had two more days til I got paid so I had no choice but to go to them since they would let me pay them on payday and then continue to make payments

                      I believe you made the right choice. When a rabbit is sick, time is critical, so getting her see to who you could at the time was best.

                      Ill look into options for your area. brb


                    • jerseygirl
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                        Re the previous owners, I have no words…
                        Just glad she’s now with you.

                        Alfalfa hay is ok if it gets her eating the grass hay, but do give sparingly. The higher protein in it is not ideal. Try different cuts of Timothy or different grass hays. Orchard is often a favourite. I feed mine oat hay as it’s most common here and they love it.

                        Was the pain med you were given recently metacam? Do you still have it? If her temp gets too high, I’m thinking you could give her some as it can help lower it. I’d like other members to weigh in on that though.


                      • Luna Rose
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                        • Luna Rose
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                          • Luna Rose
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                            • Mimsy
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                                Well, I think it’s fantastic that she has you now. She had a rough start, but it sounds like she already loves and trusts you and will hopefully have a long healthy life thanks to you.

                                The cage issue r eminds me of when I had this paralyzed ferret. He was the sweetest boy, but had to have “help” to urinate, he would poo on his own, though he did not feel when he had to go, so he just went where he was at the time. So I was going on a two week vacation and obviously needed someone who was really capable of handling the medical side of him. My vets tech offered to babysit. She knew how to do his bladder and how to watch for tummy issues which he was prone to due to his disability. I brought her a travel cage and a hole bunch of clean laundry, so she wouldn’t even have to do any if she didn’t want to. Instead of giving him a new blanket after he poo’d on one she just put another blanket on top of it. When I got back he had urine scald and the cage was just disgusting. I was really upset and stunned that someone who works at a vet office would be so stupid. It would of been better if I had left him with my other pets and had the friend who was at my house watching them watch him too. I just didn’t want her to stress over his bladder. Some people should not have animals at all.


                              • jerseygirl
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                                  I had a pair come to me like that for babysitting once and I have to say, I just cried. I wish I was assertive enough to have said something and been a better advocate for them.

                                  Ok, some resources that might be helpful:

                                  http://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Washington

                                  http://www.paws.org/cats-and-dogs/spay-and-neuter/

                                  I also found a positive reference to Dr Finch in an old thread on here.


                                • Luna Rose
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                                  • Luna Rose
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                                    • Luna Rose
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                                      • jerseygirl
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                                          ???


                                        • Bam
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                                            Luna Rose, is something wrong?


                                          • Luna Rose
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                                              No nothing is wrong. Sorry.

                                              I just had really bad anxiety, sorry. I was worried people would think I was a bad pet owner and then had anxiety I stated where I lived which honestly was stupid to have anxiety about.

                                              Sorry about that.


                                            • jerseygirl
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                                                We’re a pretty supportive community here. I like to think most can understand when circumstances get hard. We aren’t always in that situation when we first get a pet.

                                                The fact that you reached out to ask questions about your bunny shows you are a caring owner.

                                                Sorry you are dealing with anxiety. I spent last night with some paranoia and I can’t hardly imagine what it’s like for those dealing with it constantly.

                                                ETA: Also, please don’t feel bad about talking about anxiety. If you stick around on Binky Bunny, I think you’ll find many members who can relate.


                                              • Bam
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                                                  I second Jersey. You didn’t in any way come across as a “bad pet-owner”. You seem to care very much about your bunny. Imo that’s what makes a good pet-owner: to care and be really interested in the wellfare of your pet, to seek info from good sources and to try to find the best options for your pet and your circumstances.

                                                  I’m sorry that you have anxiety. As Jersey says, there are people here who can relate. I hope you stick around!


                                                • LittlePuffyTail
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                                                    Awww…((hugs)) I have bad anxiety as well. And panic attacks. No need to worry. BB is a very supportive community.


                                                  • Luna Rose
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                                                      Thank you guys so much. I am sorry you deal with anxiety, littkepuffytail, and I am sorry jerseygirl that you were suffering with paranoia.

                                                      Thank you guys for being so kind.

                                                      I took her to the vet yesterday. He said that physically that she has no signs of anything wrong. He said behaviorally that her crying and thumping her foot could be dominance. But there isn’t something right. Honestly I know her and know something isn’t right. Sometimes she will whine because she wants me to mate with her and then most of the other time she is crying like she is in pain and the thumping of her foot to me is pain. He said that he doesn’t want to put down what I am saying since I know her best. What he wanted to do was put her back on baytril for two weeks like what the other vet had done. BecAuse he wants to see if this makes the crying and her behaviors go away as it Sid last time. However I don’t think it will because the only reason it started up again is becAuse she got in the mood to mate. And I feel like it’s painful for her when she is in this phase. Before she went into heat she only sometimes would come crying to me. When she was sick and on the meds last time over a month ago she was in heat then too on top of all of the things going on and being sick. After the medication got rid of the infection she eventually started to stop crying less and less and it got to be very minimal.

                                                      Idk. He came back and said what she has could be bladder/kidney stones and that she cries when it’s painful. He said he could do xrays then and I should have said yes but I said we will wait and see and he agreed. Now I am really regretting not doing that. I knew I should have gotten them

                                                      Today she ran to me and I cuddled her and felt her bum was wet and smelt like her scent glands. So I feel maybe she was in pain and cried and ran to me and accidentally sprayed or peed herself a little becAuse of the pain. Tomorrow I will call and ask if I can bring her in next Tuesday and ask if I can just pay for xrays and not an office visit since she was just there. I only have enough money to pay for an xray and not a visit. The visit yesterday was 96 dollars, which included the visit, nail trim and baytril. He said the xrays would be 160 or 170 and that an ultrasound would be 180 and he would have to send me somewhere else for her to get an ultrasound. What would be important, xrays or an ultrasound?

                                                      And then I asked how much a spay would be at the front desk. They didn’t have the estimate for a spay. They only had the estimate for a neuter and that was 300….. so I assume a spay will be 400. That’s so expensive. I can call and ask a vet I have never been to if they do rabbit spays and how much it would be.
                                                      Also this guy vet said he hasn’t done a spay in like three years. Said it’s best to go to someone who does them more often. So he would have me go to the other doctor there who has done a couple spays in the last couple months. And he said he would assist this other doctor while they do the spay. Is this bad????????????? Is this a red flag?

                                                      Is 150-170 too much for xrays?

                                                      And I don’t understand how it could be so much for a bunny spay. At the crappy vet I took Luna to before this one yesterday, they do spays and it’s half the price. But not going there because they are so bad that I would worry luna would die be cause of them. :'(


                                                    • jerseygirl
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                                                        I’m on limited time so I’m sorry to be so brief. IMO, I think X-rays is a good next step and the price is reasonable.

                                                        If she has something like cystitis, the baytril may help. It may pay for her to go in pain med also. Did the vet say much about her temperature?


                                                      • Luna Rose
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                                                          Okay I will bring up pain meds and ask for her to go on those.

                                                          They did not. Nothing about it being a low fever on Friday either. I figured that was from stress. But I will mentioned it tomorrow on the phone. Since that day she has not had a fever whatsoever, not even a low one.


                                                        • Bam
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                                                            This is a good article from Medirabbit on kidder/bladder stones in rabbits:
                                                            http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/Mech_diseases/Urolithiasis.htm

                                                            It’s rather detailed and if you find it a scary read, maybe you should skip it. It does have good info though. It says what you can see on an X-ray etc.

                                                            Her symptoms may be worsened and complicated by her going into heat-cycles, which might have nothing at all to do with the bladder/kidney-issue, but you can’t spay a sick bunny, so I think you need to deal with the bladder/kidney issue first.


                                                          • Bam
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                                                              This is a good article from Medirabbit on kidder/bladder stones in rabbits:
                                                              http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/Mech_diseases/Urolithiasis.htm

                                                              It’s rather detailed and if you find it a scary read, maybe you should skip it. It does have good info though. It says what you can see on an X-ray etc.

                                                              Her symptoms may be worsened and complicated by her going into heat-cycles, which might have nothing at all to do with the bladder/kidney-issue, but you can’t spay a sick bunny, so I think you need to deal with the bladder/kidney issue first.


                                                            • Luna Rose
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                                                                Thank you. I will read it.

                                                                So you can see stones on an xray?

                                                                And if I have her put on pain medication, couldn’t that have bad effects too? Like.high blood pressure? Cause I know that happens in humans with pain meds.


                                                              • Luna Rose
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                                                                  She just cried while she was lying down on her tummy with her legs sticking out tloeouttlnd they do when they are relaxed. And her tail went up And stayed sticking up while she was crying and it was a long cry.

                                                                  Then she stopped. Then did it again and came running to me.

                                                                  Earlier she was lying down and relaxed and out of no where she cried and then came running to me. So I feel this is pain. I will tell the vet Th at I know it is as this isn’t normal


                                                                • Bam
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                                                                    You can see stones more than 2 mm in diameter on x-rays according to the article. Ultrasound detects even smaller stones.

                                                                    Side-effects of pain meds in rabbits are most often related to the GI tract. The type of pain meds used in rabbits are most commonly NSAIDs (Metacam, Meloxicam), which you may have heard about or taken yourself because people get NSAIDs too (diclofenak, voltaren). Long term use if course more likely to cause problems than short-term use.

                                                                    Here’s an excerpt from the article about X-ray and ultrasound examinations:
                                                                    “A KUB (Kidney, Ureter, Bladder) X-ray picture will reveal all calcium based stones larger than 2 mm. Uric acid stones are not detected by X-ray, but those are exceptionally seen in rabbits. The X-ray picture will help determine the size, the location and the number of stones present. It is indeed important to verify the presence of stones in the kidney, the urinary ducts (urethra and ureter) and in the bladder, before starting their surgical removal.
                                                                    It is advisable to accompany the X-ray examination of the urinary tract by ultrasonography (ultrasound examination), as it can detect stones of 1 to 2 mm of diameter, than remain unseen on X-ray. Beside stones, it enables to get a picture of the bladder wall, the kidney tissues, and can show the presence of a blockage inside the kidneys or the ureters.”


                                                                  • Bam
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                                                                      Does she display these symptoms?
                                                                      “A rabbit suffering from stones is often in pain. As a result, its appetite is decreased, it is depressed and it may whine when urinating. Often, frequent and long urination is observed, accompanied by urine dribbling. In some cases, the urine is so rich in sediments (calcium carbonate) that the urine takes a paste-like consistency, and stains the perianal region.”

                                                                      Have you seen blood in the urine? It’s commonly seen with stones.

                                                                      Could your vet perhaps be sympathetic to the fact that you don’t have a lot of money and give you the least pricey option that would still do the most good for her?


                                                                    • Luna Rose
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                                                                        Okay thank you.

                                                                        I read the article. And now a bit scared. I have just enough money for the xray which I am gonna call about tomorrow morning. I have exactly 200 dollars left, so they better not charge me an office visit since I was just there. I will try to get in early in the morning or early Thursday or Friday before work.

                                                                        then don’t get paid til the 27th, and I will only have 200 dollars then that I can use towards her which I would use for the ultrasound if they find nothing on the xray.

                                                                        I am just scared. Cause they would have to surgically remove stones? I am scared because I couldn’t afford that atm cause I assume it would be over 200 dollars to even do that.
                                                                        Super stressed. I won’t let anything bad happen to her. And I don’t want anything bad to happen. I don’t wanna wait too long to get her treated if she has a stone.


                                                                      • Bam
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                                                                          I can very well understand the money-problem. As far as I understand, kidney stones if found need to be removed surgically. I will read more about it though and I think we have members who have experience with kidney/bladder stones. You can edit the thread-title to sth with suspected kidney/bladder stones in order to attract readers who might have knowledge about these things.

                                                                          I’m glad you read the article, even if it’s scary.


                                                                        • Luna Rose
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                                                                            Okay thank you.

                                                                            Also I wish I would write things down when I go to the vet so I wouldn’t forget to tell them things.
                                                                            After Luna was first treated she still continued to have blood in her urine. That old vet was saying how it was probably nothing and from her food. But they suck, so not gonna listen to them. And as far as I know it has continued to be red up until now. Well maybe a week ago. I clean her cage once a week. And anyway, in the bedding I just changed I don’t think I saw any red in the urine. But I don’t know. It’s kind of hard to see because I use brown carefresh bedding. But a week ago before I cleaned her bedding I feel there might have been red, I think so. So I will tell them. Something isn’t right.

                                                                            Just don’t wanna lose her so I am stressed. She is all I have.

                                                                            Whatever happens I will make it work


                                                                          • Luna Rose
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                                                                              Sorry bam didn’t see that other post of yours til just now. Will answer your questions.


                                                                            • Luna Rose
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                                                                                “A rabbit suffering from stones is often in pain. As a result, its appetite is decreased, it is depressed and it may whine when urinating. Often, frequent and long urination is observed, accompanied by urine dribbling. In some cases, the urine is so rich in sediments (calcium carbonate) that the urine takes a paste-like consistency, and stains the perianal region.”

                                                                                She still has a good appetite. Not depressed. But she has never enjoyed things like playing so it makes her come off depressed and bored when she isn’t trying going through her in heat phase, and Will keep to herself. I have never seen her cry from urinating except a month and a half or two months ago when I first noticed something was wrong (before I took her to the vet) and she was peeing everywhere. And they were frequent and long then. She peed all over my couch and the floor. and kept peeing 10 mins apart and they were very long pees. Ever since she went on those antibiotics she hasn’t peed anywhere. The only incident was today when she cried and ran to me and I felt her bum was wet. She could have done this other times and I didn’t know. She didn’t leave any pee puddles or make any pee marks so it only came out a little.

                                                                                And she did have blood in her pee when she was on the antibiotics the first time. I knew for sure she did be cause she peed on my white shirt and there was blood. After the infection went away and so did the fever, I still noticed red in her urine. Before she got sick I never once noticed red in her urine.

                                                                                She just cried and came running to me now as she was eating hay. I think a tiny bit of urine came out be cause i touched her tush and it smelt slightly like pee though it wasn’t really wet. So it’s like only a very tiny amount came out

                                                                                Also she is restless. BecAuse of the mating thing. she will calm down and relax with her body laid out but soon it will be ruined by crying and running to me. She does the crying and running like every five minutes.

                                                                                Also I feel this vet will not be sympathetic. Unfortunately. I could ask and then ask the vet doctor I saw.

                                                                                There is one vet here I haven’t been too and I could call them and see what their prices are.
                                                                                If they treat rabbits that is.

                                                                                I cleaned her cage about 3 and a half hours ago and she hasn’t peed in it yet, is this normal?


                                                                              • Bam
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                                                                                  Red urine is most often not blood but from plant pigments. Red urine is very, very common in rabbits and perfectly normal and healthy.
                                                                                  Blood is often seen as specks in the urine. You can test if its blood with hydrogen peroxide. If you put hydrogen peroxide on, it will foam and get warm with blood. No blood, no reaction.

                                                                                  I know you don’t want to lose her. Please try not to think too much about that, because thoughts like that are paralyzing and harmful. My psychologist says to note that the thought is there, acknowledge it’s presence so to speak, but do not engage in it. Don’t try to reason with it or fight it, just “let it ride in the back” and move on with your daily activities. It’s better for you and it’s better for your bun since her mood will be affected by your mood. (I’m only saying this in all friendliness).


                                                                                • Bam
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                                                                                    It rather sounds to me like recurring cystitis, a UTI. I think you need to let the antibiotic do it’s work until you can tell. I think perhaps a pain-killer would be great until the baytril has taken full effect, since she seems to experience pain.

                                                                                    A probiotic helps the tummy both with Baytril and Metacam (if you get Metacam).


                                                                                  • Luna Rose
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                                                                                      Okay, thank you so much, bam. You have made me feel so much better. I hope it’s just reoccurring cystitis and not stones as it would be eAsier to take care of. The crying did die down for a while. It still happened but I felt it was less frequent. And then maybe for a week she didn’t do it and then started back up.

                                                                                      Thank you very much. I will not worry and listen to what you said. I will ask them if I can pick up some pain meds for her. Poor girl. I feel so bad. She cries so much. She is drinking water now and has cried four times in less than a minute. She was drinking water while it was happening and would stop. And then start drinking again and then would cry and stop and then drink again and finally the last time she came running to me.


                                                                                    • Bam
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                                                                                        Poor little darling girl. It is just awful when your bunny is sick, they are so tiny and you feel so helpless and a bunny can’t tell you what’s wrong =(

                                                                                        Medirabbit says this about Metacam (meloxicam):
                                                                                        Very palatable for rabbits
                                                                                        Concurrent use with another NSAID, corticosteroid, or nephrotoxic medication must be avoided. If unavoidable, the rabbit should be monitored closely.
                                                                                        Long-term use appears to cause little adverse effects in rabbits
                                                                                        Should not be used in rabbits suffering from liver or kidney failure.

                                                                                        http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Analgesics/safe_analgesics.htm


                                                                                      • jerseygirl
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                                                                                          Because she’s acting hormonally, the crying *may* be related to that. Of course, it’s a good idea to get things assessed to be certain it’s not pain related.
                                                                                          Are you able to get a video of how she is acting?

                                                                                          Regarding stones, there are some types that can be treated non surgically.

                                                                                          My psychologist says to note that the thought is there, acknowledge it’s presence so to speak, but do not engage in it. Don’t try to reason with it or fight it, just “let it ride in the back” and move on with your daily activities.

                                                                                          I like that advice. Definitely something I can use!


                                                                                        • Luna Rose
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                                                                                            Thank you.

                                                                                            I am freaking out. She hasn’t peed in over 10 hours. That was when I cleaned her cage and she hasn’t peed in it once. I think she didn’t pee at all yesterday. What could be the cause of this? I am sooo scared. The vet is calling me back to try to get me in today. But I am so worried. They are gonna try to get me.on before 11am. I believe I will have to call in late to work but I have to to take luna as I feel it’s an emergency that she hasn’t peed.


                                                                                          • Bam
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                                                                                              She could have a stone pressing on /blocking her her urethra so the pee can’t get out. It is very serious if there’s a total blockage and she can’t pee at all, (but that is rare in girl rabbits according to Medirabbit). and she’ll need to have her bladder emptied. She must see a vet, but I don’t know how many hours you can go before it becomes critical.


                                                                                            • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                So this morning I saw that she peed so I felt it was okay to wait til Friday. They cannot get me in tomorrow because the two doctors who treat exotics won’t be there.

                                                                                                If I have to I will figure something else out tomorrow if she hasn’t peed and take hEr to a different vet. Heck, I will take hEr to that old vet if needed, only because if she isn’t peeing she needs some kind of treatment. I am so stressed about money. I looked and I have 250 that I can use for her. And I have just enough to take a taxi to vet and back and then that’s all the money I have til next pay check.

                                                                                                Is it wrong I didn’t take hEr this morning since I saw she peed? It wasn’t a completely normal pee. But she still peed. It just wasn’t as much pee as she usually pees at once. Or maybe I am wrong and having ocd.

                                                                                                She is pooping and eating.

                                                                                                I couldn’t give her her meds this morning be cause she was so stressed. Her heart started working too hard so I stopped so she could calm down. Poor girl. I might have to give her meds to her on a banana. Those are her fave.

                                                                                                I feel like a bad pet parent. I hope it wasn’t bad that I didn’t take hEr this morning after I saw that she peed. I will.know more when I get home today at 8:30

                                                                                                I am freaking out so badly and having trouble breathing. I already have high bp issues even though I am on meds, and I am sure it’s bad now.

                                                                                                I am just worried and I don’t want her to die.
                                                                                                I hope she will be okay.

                                                                                                I hope you guys don’t think I am terrible. I would have brought her in this morning and been late to work but when I saw she peed, I felt like it was okay to bring her Friday, want to avoid being late if I can. But if she has an emergency then I would definitely choose hEr health over work. She comes first before anything else.


                                                                                              • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                  I cannot calm down.
                                                                                                  Can you guys please help calm me down? Having a hard time breathing because I am.So worried about her and worry I am a bad pet parent. I looked and there is a vet open til 10. When I get home, if she hasn’t peed, I will call them and ask if they can work her in.


                                                                                                • Sgt.Pepper and Jojo
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                                                                                                    I’m so so sorry that you and your bun are going through this  I’m sending you both good vibes and hoping everything goes okay for her.

                                                                                                    From what I’ve read, you are doing everything you can for her, and clearly are dedicated to giving her the best care possible. So don’t feel that you’re a bad pet parent! It’s hard not to, I know. But do try, and know that no one reading this thread thinks badly of you.

                                                                                                    Don’t beat yourself up over not going to the vet (and being late to work) when you saw that she had peed. That’s a tough call, because you need to be going to work to make money to continue to provide for your bun. Remind yourself that it’s good that she did pee some, even if it wasn’t her normal amount.

                                                                                                    Do you have anything you can do to help ease your anxiety/to make you feel better? Anxiety isn’t something you can control, or turn on or off, but I think you should do what you can to make yourself feel better! It’s not your fault that your bun isn’t doing great right now, and beating yourself up over it, or stressing yourself out more than you need to, isn’t going to help her any. I’ve been in a similar situation where my anxiety and worry over a sick pet was getting the best of me, and it helped to remind myself that the calmer I am, the better it is for my pet.

                                                                                                    Also, (I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned this or not) have you looked into CareCredit? That’s what I had to go with in order to be able to spay and neuter my buns, since smaller monthly payments was the only way I would be able to afford it. And since then it’s given me a lot of peace of mind, and came in super handy when my cat got UTIs. But, I know that everyone’s situation is different, so what works for me might not work for you.

                                                                                                    I’m thinking of you and your bun. 


                                                                                                  • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                      Can someone please answer immediately?

                                                                                                      I am crying. I am home. She hasn’t peed since I have been gone. Meaning she has only peed once in 24 hours. I can bring her to the er vet but I won’t be able to afford the cost of what they charge me. I only have 250.

                                                                                                      I can get her in tomorrow at another vet in the afternoon. I haven’t been there but after the xrays and exam it will be about 220′

                                                                                                      What do I do? I am crying. I don’t want her to die.


                                                                                                    • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                        Okay so after I sent this, she peed just a tiny bit.

                                                                                                        But before she did I called pet emergency and they don’t take exotics. Plus she said that even if they did that their power us out so they wouldn’t even be able to take xrays.

                                                                                                        What do I do? If I take hEr to the vet in tomorrow which is a different one I would have to lay for the office visit and xrays which would be 220. They seem more sympathetic and like they might be able to work something out with me.

                                                                                                        However the vet I went to Tuesday…. I have an appt Friday morning. No one is in tomorrow there that treats rabbits. But I asked if they could not charge be for a pet office visit since I was just in. So I would be laying 160-170 for the xrays but to me this place isn’t sympathetic to financial situations. So what do I do?

                                                                                                        Or do I take my chances and go to the terrible vet that suuucks?
                                                                                                        Reason I hate them is becAuse after I took my hamster to get spayed there, she died. But that is my fault. I felt I shouldn’t have taken her to a place that wouldn’t watch her overnight. Then I took my hamster there for teeth trimming. She choked to death from food that had been in her pouch while they tried to clip her teeth. The lady was do dumb that she tried to give her mouth to save her and then a shot in her heart. None would have saved her as food was lodged in her throat. Plus, she seems stupid when it comes to animals. Only reason I bring this vet up is becAuse all I would have to pay for are xrays and they would let me pay the rest later and make payments.

                                                                                                        What do I do


                                                                                                      • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                          Sgt pepper: thank you. I would.have replied earlier but was at work.

                                                                                                          Thank you very much. I did have carecredit but unfortunately I haven’t been able to use that for over four years cause back then I stopped paying payments due to unexpected life crises and ruined my account. so I have nothing to use to pay for visits except for money out of my pocket.

                                                                                                          What helps with my anxiety when it comes to my pet is being able to talk to people like you guys who are so nice and helpful and know what I am going through.


                                                                                                        • Bam
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                                                                                                            Luna Rose, I can’t tell you what to do, she needs to get that urine out. I have tried to find info on a time-frame but all I find is that it is an emergency. A vet can express the urine, or empty the bladder and rinse it out, if it’s thick pasty sludge that’s causing it.

                                                                                                            I’m so sorry and I know that doesn’t help.


                                                                                                          • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                              Okay thank you. I will bring her in tomorrow then.

                                                                                                              Sorry if I sound like I don’t care. But I will bring her in tomorrow.

                                                                                                              Hopefully they will work with me. They are the hunter vet clinic. In spokane wa.

                                                                                                              Sorry bam. Thank you so much for your post. I will be bringing.her in tomorrow.

                                                                                                              In the meantime is there anything I can do for her? Would a warm rag on her tummy help? She is still drinking.

                                                                                                              I am very thankful I found this site. You guys are so helpful. And bam, thanks for looking this up for me. I will be calling in tomorrow at work and then taking her to the vet.

                                                                                                              Can’t believe the pet emergency vet doesn’t flippin take exotics.


                                                                                                            • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                I really hope they will workout some kind of arrangement with me. Please please pray for little luna. please.


                                                                                                              • Bam
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                                                                                                                  I know you care so much. I am praying for her. ((((((Luna))))))


                                                                                                                • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                    Thank you so much, bam
                                                                                                                    You are so sweet.

                                                                                                                    Sorry for the question, but do you think taking a wArm wet rag might help if I gently rub her area to try to help stimulate her bladder? I guess that wouldn’t work if her bladder is blocked. Just trying to think of ideas to do in the meantime til I get her in tomorrow.

                                                                                                                    Will keep you guys updated. Thanks again. You guys are so kind and helpful on here. And it’s nice to meet other bunny lovers. I will tell someone I have a bunny and they make fun of me for taking her to the vet. I wish people treated animals.equally and didn’t look down on them, becAuse they are the same as us… They just aren’t as developed as we are, but they still feel and love, and have a soul. Anyway sorry for that random rant.. been dealing with a lot of people like this lately and.it’s frustrating.


                                                                                                                  • Bam
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                                                                                                                      Yes, I think that would be an ok thing to do, stimulate the area with sth wet, but gently so as not to cause any tissue damage to internal organs.

                                                                                                                      We love and respect bunnies here so you will not have to deal with anyone saying “it’s only a rabbit” here, I can assure you that, at least.


                                                                                                                    • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                        Thank you so much!!


                                                                                                                      • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                          Trying to upload some pictures of her to show her off lol, but it keeps messing up. It won’t display the pictures


                                                                                                                        • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                            Update:

                                                                                                                            Woke up this morning to call out and did for the first time at my job. But had to do it. Taking her in as a walkin at a new vet today since they didn’t have appts opened and they take walkins between 2-3.
                                                                                                                            Anyway, I better not get in trouble for calling out. I would hope these people would be understanding, and told them I couldn’t bring her last night as the pet emergency doesn’t take exotics etc and can’t get her in today til after I am suppose to be at work.

                                                                                                                            Also, when I was in the other room… Luna starts doing those happy hops… well, where she is like running around like crazy around the outside of her cage as fast as she can. So at least she is happy and feels okay enough to do that. But she still.is hardly peeing. She might have had another tiny pee last night but it a hard to tell.


                                                                                                                          • Bam
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                                                                                                                              I fixed the pix. For some reason they don’t show if you upload from a phone, but if you edit the post from a PC, they are there. She’s just about the cutest little bunny-girl imaginable! Those eyes and those sideburns!

                                                                                                                              I’m so glad she’s peed a little! You can gently, gently pat her lower abdomen with two fingers to try and further stimulate the expression of urine. Try and stand her up in your lap on her hind legs as you do, so the pull of gravity works with you. 
                                                                                                                              You will still need a vet, but if she pees some you at least have a little more time. 


                                                                                                                            • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                                Thank you so much for fixing the pictures for me.

                                                                                                                                And I woke up and saw she peed on a pillow. Like a good amount, so that is the first in two days. Will still being her in. I am going in two hours to take her. She is potty trained but since she is having these issues, she probably couldn’t control when she peed.


                                                                                                                              • Bam
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                                                                                                                                  I’m so glad to hear it!! Good girl Luna!
                                                                                                                                  You’re probably right in thinking she couldn’t quite control where she peed due to her problem, that’s very commonly seen with a UTI.


                                                                                                                                • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                                    Okay thank you. I will still get an xray just to make sure. I regretted not doing it on Tuesday when I went so I will get it done for sure today.

                                                                                                                                    Can a uti make a bunny stop peeing?


                                                                                                                                  • Bam
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                                                                                                                                      I haven’t found any mention of urine retention due to a UTI, only that a bunny can be susceptible till UTIs due to urine retention caused by sludge in the bladder making the bunny unable to completely empty the bladder.

                                                                                                                                      Hopefully it’s sludge, not solid stones.

                                                                                                                                      “Rabbits that have been diagnosed with a urinary tract infection are usually treated as outpatient. Affected rabbits often respond to a combination of antibiotic therapy, increased water consumption, dietary modification, weight loss, and an increase in exercise alone. In more severe cases, such as for rabbits with large amounts of calcium in the bladder, fluid therapy and manual massage to empty bladder will be necessary.” http://www.petmd.com/rabbit/conditions/urinary/c_rb_lower_urinary_tract_infection?page=2

                                                                                                                                      (I can’t say if the tests and exams mentioned in this article are good or not, the web site is commercial and not from a bunny charity or bunny organization, but the rest of the info seems like it’s correct and good.)


                                                                                                                                    • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                                        So I am home from the vet. Before he did xrays he took a look at her and said that he didn’t think anything was wrong with her bladder after feeling around down there and couldn’t feel any stones etc. He said out of the rabbits he sees 1 out of 100 have something wrong with their bladder and the rest is reproductive system. He said he really thinks it’s something wrong with her reproductive system like cysts or endometriosis and it’s causing the urine issues. Said she is Still pretty young to have cancer so he doesn’t think it’s cancer but highly recommends a spay. He also noticed that her baby teeth haven’t fallen out. (Btw luna is 1 year and almost three months). He said he has adult teeth h have grown over in front of baby teeth. So she has two sets of teeth. Because of this she cannot close her mouth all the way which means she cannot grind down her back molars like a normal bunny. He said that the baby teeth need to be removed.he said that if this never gets taken care of that she will die early of dental disease. He put her on pain meds. And he said he wants me to quit the baytril because it isn’t gonna do anything but said that if I want to I can still continue to do it because I already started it. He knows I am on a budget and so to work with me he is just having me get done the most necessary things to begin with. So today was to make sure there was no emergency by getting the xrays. And then I get paid in a week but I won’t make as much since I called out today and I only work four days next week (8hour days), and I have to pay rent with my next paycheck and make sure I can buy a bus pass and have money for food. So basically I would only have 100 dollars that could go to her. And on the 11th, I can probably put 350 dollars towards her.

                                                                                                                                        I was meant to go in today because if I never did I doubt they would have noticed at the other vet that she had her baby teeth still. He didn’t catch it before which is understandable as they are hidden and kind if hard to tell. But still, I want to go to a vet who will notice this stuff.


                                                                                                                                      • Crashley
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                                                                                                                                          I am new to binky bunny. How do I post something or ask questions in the forum. I cant figure it out.


                                                                                                                                        • Bam
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                                                                                                                                            Thank you for reporting to us what the vet said! It’s very valuable for all bunny-owners here who might one day encounter similar issues.

                                                                                                                                            I’m so glad you’ve found a vet who seems really knowledgeable and thorough and who’s willing to try and keep costs down by doing the most important things first. It sounds like he’s a guy to trust. I’m also glad you’ve finally got a proper diagnosis + that he found the surplus baby teeth.

                                                                                                                                            It’s good that you had stones ruled out, that really must have helped with the differential diagnosis, and now you know the problem lies within her reproductive organs. I’m glad there weren’t any stones so she didn’t need emergency surgery. Did you get a pain-killer for her?


                                                                                                                                          • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                                              Crashley, on the top of each thread there is a button that says ‘reply’ and you hit that to reply to a thread. When you look through the forum and go into the right category (relating to what kind of question you want to ask), there is a button on the top of the page that says ‘add topic’ And you press that and that is how you start your own topic.


                                                                                                                                            • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                                                Bam, thank you so much!

                                                                                                                                                And yes I did get her pain killers. They gave me metacam. It’s chicken flavor however… I should have asked for a none flavored version and mixed it in something myself. Because bunnies aren’t gonna like that and he even said they don’t but maybe he didn’t have a non flavored one. Didn’t think about asking until after I left. She isn’t crying as much. She has a couple times but it’s not as much. And she also fell asleep in my arms and never awoke from crying. Yesterday she fell asleep in my arms for the first time and awoke from crying.


                                                                                                                                              • Bam
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                                                                                                                                                  Chicken flavour is not ideal I agree but I imagine that the amount of actual chicken, if any, is minute. If you can mix it with sth yummy so she eats it it’s good, otherwise you’ll have to syringe it. It’s better than no Metacam, it will help both with the pain and if there’s inflammation, it is an anti-inflammatory med.

                                                                                                                                                  It’s so sweet that she falls asleep in your arms! She must trust you so much. I’m so glad she doesn’t cry as much.


                                                                                                                                                • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                                                    I don’t understand what is going on. I just had Luna out and she peed on my pillow. She never does this when I have her on my couch, not since she that infection or whatever it was going on a month and a half ago.
                                                                                                                                                    She also has peed on several other pillows. I thought that was a dominance thing… And then I saw she peed in one of her doggie beds I got her which she doesn’t use.

                                                                                                                                                    Should I be concerned? She is ok baytril but I have missed three does since starting it… And sometimes I will give it to her two hours late. :'( fml. The vet I took her to said she didn’t even need the baytril but that I could continue giving it to hEr if I wanted since the other vet had me start her on it.
                                                                                                                                                    The other Th ing is… the cap for the baytril has split open on the side so it’s not covering the top all the way… Will this make the medication go bad? I didn’t have anything to put over it like plastic wrap etc to cover the top. Also, if I have missed three doses since starting the meds, isn’t that bad?

                                                                                                                                                    I feel like a bad pet parent. Sorry.

                                                                                                                                                    The vet is closed now so I cannot call them. And won’t be opened til Friday. What do you guys think is wrong? She doesn’t have a fever


                                                                                                                                                  • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                                                      Here is a picture of the medication bottle. If you turn it upside down it will start to leak.

                                                                                                                                                      Does this mean the baytril has gone bad?

                                                                                                                                                      Also how bad is it that I have missed a total of three doses? The first time was be Cause she was way too stressed so I couldn’t give her her meds but that was right when I started it, and it was suppose to be her second dose. And the last two times were this week. Probably yesterday morning and a couple days prior.

                                                                                                                                                      I hope she doesn’t have an infection but she wasn’t doing this over a week ago. I feel like a major bad pet parent.


                                                                                                                                                    • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                                                        Not sure how to properly upload an image on here.

                                                                                                                                                        Bam: sorry I didn’t see you replied to me before.


                                                                                                                                                      • Hazel
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                                                                                                                                                          I’m very sorry you and your bunny are going through this.

                                                                                                                                                          First off, before your vet does something you’ll regret, do not let him remove the “baby teeth”. Rabbits do not have baby teeth, ever. What the vet saw were probably the peg teeth, which are a third set if incisors located right behind the first set of incisors in the upper jaw:

                                                                                                                                                          They are supposed to be there, and should NOT be removed. Did the vet actually find any molar spurs or is he just assuming they’re there because of the “baby teeth problem”? Either way, it seems that he isn’t familiar with the basics of dental anatomy in rabbits, so I wouldn’t trust him to be able to tell whether your bun has dental disease or not. Go to a different vet who is more rabbit savvy and get a second opinion, have them actually check the molars for spurs, not just the incisors.

                                                                                                                                                          He is right about the spay though, that should be done as soon as possible. Even rabbits as young as one year of age can develop reproductive cancer.


                                                                                                                                                        • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                                                            Wow are you serious????


                                                                                                                                                          • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                                                              Thank you so much for telling me this. This honestly makes me mad. Wow! Thank you!!

                                                                                                                                                              What do you mean by molar spurs? He said that she wasn’t able to close her mouth down because of the ‘baby teeth’ And therefore wasn’t able to grind HEr molars down properly like a normal bunny. He showed me the xray and said they weren’t ground down like normal.

                                                                                                                                                              Don’t bunnies always have their mouth open a little but constantly?


                                                                                                                                                            • Bam
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                                                                                                                                                                Bunnies don’t have their mouth a little bit open. A healthy bunny always breathes through its nose. 

                                                                                                                                                                Hazel is perfectly right, bunnies have extra peg teeth behind their normal teeth and that is a peculiarity of the lagomorpha (hare-like animals). But they do have a set of 16 baby teeth (deciduous) though, but from what I can find they are seldom seen since they are shed before or close after birth. Here’s a short article on rabbit and rodent teeth: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=18+1798&aid=3078

                                                                                                                                                                The article talks about molar spurs as enamel spikes. Rabbits’ molars grow continously all through the rabbits’ life, and must be worn down by chewing tough fibrous food (hay) or they will grow too much and cause problems.

                                                                                                                                                                If your vet is referring to the peg teeth as surplus baby teeth, he is wrong and, I would say, clueless about bunny teeth. But if he is talking about her actual baby teeth, those she should have shed long before you got her, that’s definitely a problem for her. I’ve never heard of it in bunnys before, but it’s quite common in dogs of the very small breeds, you often have to have at least some of the baby teeth pulled out by a vet.

                                                                                                                                                                I think the Baytril is fine. Don’t give her extra for missed doses. The reason your vet said to keep giving her the Baytril I think is because you should always do a full course of antibiotics once you’ve started it, in order not to risk helping bacteria develop resistance to the antibiotic. Antibiotic-resistant bacteria is a big problem these days, and it has a lot do do with patients not finishing their ab courses. (Not just bunny-patients of course.)

                                                                                                                                                                And you are not a bad pet parent. Honestly, do you think bad pet parents care the way you do?? 


                                                                                                                                                              • Luna Rose
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                                                                                                                                                                  Hey bam! Sorry I never replied to this. So much has been going on.

                                                                                                                                                                  So my vet was being really dumb of course you know from what he said about the baby teeth . I finally called them back and they had the doctor give me a call. I told them.I wanted to ask him if what he was referring to were actually her peg teeth and said I was confused and wanted him to explain.

                                                                                                                                                                  Lol the doctor called me back and left a detailed message. He made it sound like he never told me that what he saw were baby teeth and were indeed peg teeth. I feel he didn’t want to admit or come across as being wrong be cause he is a veterinarian after all…… 0_0 . He was telling me in person before at that vet appointment that she needed them removed and how it wasn’t normal. Lol wow. In the voicemail he said I did good research and said he looked at the xray again. He said that her peg teeth and insissors just needed to be trimmed and hoped that that would.fix.her problem and he felt she wasn’t too far gone with her back teeth. Her back teeth are off since she hasn’t been able to grind them down due to her front teeth being off.

                                                                                                                                                                  I called back and when I spoke to him I told him how I read that trimming the front won’t fix the back if the back are already off and he said that was true but was hoping she wasn’t too far gone yet.

                                                                                                                                                                  He told me that he doesn’t have the equipment to grind down her back teeth but said that they will do her front. But she will need to be sedated. He said.He doesn’t own a tube to put down her throat to do the grinding of the back teeth and the tube keeps any shards of.tooth from going down her throat.
                                                                                                                                                                  Anyway, he said he could order the tube but that it’s 400 dollars to get the piece and he has never needed it before. And I believe he said.He will only be able to see 75 percent of the back teeth. And wants me to go to WSU the teaching school to have them do it. But I cannot get down there. Not now at least. So I may have to have him try to do it but we will see. I will get an xray again soon to check on her back teeth.

                                                                                                                                                                  Since he was wrong about the baby teeth, should I hold.th at against him? I feel comfortable now going to him since he sees he was wrong even though He cannot admit it. But is it abnormal.for a vet to be wrong about that stuff? I rather go to him than any other vet in town be cause I feel other vets are even less knowledgeable and I don’t feel comfy with them.


                                                                                                                                                                • Bam
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                                                                                                                                                                    I’d try to find another vet, honestly. This guy may be a nice person and all, and he did spot that she had a dental problem, but he’s obviously not knowleadgeable enough and he has little experience with fixing bunny teeth and if he wants to learn how to do it, I would think it’s best if he does it under supervision of an experienced bunny vet, not by practicing on Luna.

                                                                                                                                                                    It is “normal” for vets (and human-doctors) to never admit they’ve been wrong about anything, but it’s not very nice.

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                                                                                                                                                                Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Stones in bladder/kidney, not peeing, crying, heeelp