Wet poo. Chilly bunny. Separate things.

[Valleygirl]

Getting chilly here and any cardboard anything to hide in we put she topples around and it ends up full of poo and of course she eats the cardboard. First winter with her…what do we do? She is indoors but it is a little chilly.

Struggling from diarrhea which we think was from 3 grapes my dtr fed her and now its still wet. We have resorted back to hay and pellet food for now and was told add oats but now I read elsewhere no oats. I am so confused.

We found this bunny in our yard this spring and have kept her. She is very sweet but does not play at all. We keep gaining weight and losing weight back and forth. Saw the vet once and otherwise healthy.

[tobyluv]

It was wonderful that you saved this bunny that someone likely deliberately put out. If she is indoors, it shouldn’t be chilly to her. Rabbits prefer cool (not cold) temperatures.

You definitely have to limit fruit due to the high sugar content. Is she actually having diarrhea, which is rare, or just loose poop? Loose poop can also be caused by too many pellets, so you might need to limit those and make sure that she eats a lot of grass hay – Timothy, orchard grass, meadow grass, etc. Oats should not be given to rabbits. Does she eat greens? If she isn’t used to those, you would need to go slow and introduce one at a time in small quantities. Kale, Romaine lettuce, green or red leaf lettuce, cilantro, parsley, dandelion greens are some greens that you could try.

To make her a hidey house that can’t be toppled over, you could construct a simple tunnel with untreated plywood. Hopefully that would be heavy enough so that she couldn’t tip it. Rabbits like to have 2 exits in a house so that they don’t feel trapped. Three pieces of plywood – 2 sides and a top of whatever length you choose, could be screwed together. A home center would probably cut the pieces of wood for you.

A lot of bunnies don’t play. They aren’t like dogs or cats that way. You can try some rabbit toys, but some rabbits just don’t care for them. You can take cardboard paper towel holders (ones without glue residue, since they will be chewed on) and give them to her either plain or stuffed with hay. Some bunnies like to toss them around.

[Bam]

Rabbits handle cold very well. As long as they have a place that’s not drafty to snuggle up in, they do well in cold climates and the fur grows extra thick and insulating. 

It’s very good that you keep her on hay and pellets for now, especially hay is important for an upset bunny tummy. Oats are not recommended for bunnies, some people still give their outdoors bunnies oats, but it’s not bunny-appropriate food and is likely to cause stomach trouble. Rabbits are grass-eaters.

Many adult bunnies never play. Mine don’t play. One of them chases a treat-ball sometimes, but that’s not because he’s playful, it’s because there’s food in the treat-ball. Rabbits often like to lounge. They like to be around their family and they socialize by just hanging out in the same room.

Cardboard is cellulose so that’s safe for a bunny to eat. It’s good that you get her cardboard-boxes. Bunnies often enjoy destroying cardboard boxes. A bunny may also like a fleece blankie to dig in, buy the cheapest kind you can find because there will be holes in it before she’s done. A fleece blankie is also good for snuggling if you are worried that she feels cold.

[Valleygirl]

Poo is better. But I can literally hear her tummy rumbling loudly at times. We noticed this a while ago and its been more consistent. She is losing weight too. Maybe she is not liking her hay? We wemt thru a mega weight loss a few months back and vet got on me for malnourished and said better hay and pellets. So we did. She got better. Now again this. I dont know what to do….

[redbunbun]

Tummy rumbling is indicative of gas in her gut. When you hear this rumbling, try to get your bunny to run around and give her gentle belly rubs if she’ll let you. This should help with the gas troubles. You can also give her a few drops of simethicone (baby gas drops), though the evidence that it really help with rabbit gas problems is mostly anecdotal and not actually scientifically proven. However, it definitely won’t hurt, and gas is uncomfortable and dangerous for a bunny!

We’re battling similar weight problems with our rabbit Sukka as well, who has a congenital health condition. What pellets are you feeding? An alfalfa-based pellet is good for gaining weight, and keeping up with fiber content is also vital for malnourished rabbits, so you need a pellet with high fiber as well. I’d suggest Supreme Science Selective pellets, which is what we’re using for Sukka now.

Oats are generally very tummy-friendly, and they contain a lot of energy, which is useful for a rabbit with problems gaining and maintaining weight. However, with an ailing rabbit, the introduction of very new food needs to be done very carefully and slowly and one at a time to not mess up their tummy, and in an ideal situation the introduction of new foods shouldn’t be done if the bunny’s tummy is already a bit “off”, like it sounds like your bun’s tummy is.

What I find odd is that her weight is fluctuating so much – to me, that speaks of an underlying condition. An otherwise healthy rabbit that is rescued from being malnourished should start off thin, but once they gain the weight they should keep it on unless they become malnourished again. The mushy poops together with her weight fluctuation sounds like parasites or other digestive tract issues to me. Has she been screened for parasites? For instance, a coccidia infection could cause the symptoms you’re describing, and it’s very common in rabbits, especially young ones. Do you have any idea how old she is? Another possible culprit could be what Sukka has, congenital rabbit megacolon, which is a deformation of the colon that causes various digestive issues, including gas build-up, strange poops and troubles gaining and maintaining weight. What color is she? Megacolon is more common in rabbits that display a scheck coloration, or “charlies”. However, megacolon is quite rare, and can only be diagnosed by ruling out all other possible causes, so it’s not a diagnosis one should jump to right off the bat.

[Valleygirl]

THank you.  She is black.  A Rex is my guess.  We did have her screened for parasites when she first was losing weight and was lethargic.  Negative.  But I do NOT remember the tummy rumblings going on at that point.  So oats ARE ok to be giving?  I know we need to increase dark green leafys.  And the food we have her on is a different brand which is pellets and some dried beans and other stuff.  I am reading now that may not be good so I need to switch that I guess.  I will try to find what you recommend or at least what we first had her on as I know she did gain weight and her coat looked great.  Even that is lack luster now.    This all seems so confusing to me.  I often wonder if we ought to surrender her elsewhere to someone who knows more…but my kids would be heartbroken. 

[redbunbun]

Well, that’s good news then – if she’s black, megacolon is very unlikely, and it’s a tricky illness and incurable, so it’s always good if it’s not that.

Oats are very high-energy, and since her tummy is already a little bit off I would be very careful with introducing anything new… by the sound of it, she really needs to have a different kind of pellet, though. If I were you, I would try a different pellet first, and then if even that doesn’t help I’d reconsider giving her the oats. Do you have the name of the pellet brand she’s currently eating? And what was the name of the pellet she was on before?

Whereabouts do you live? It could help us get an idea of what pellet brands are available to you, so it would be easier to recommend a good one. Other good pellet brands in addition to Supreme Science Selective that you could consider are Genesis (particularly the alfalfa-based variety, more energy for a skinny bunny than a timothy-based pellet), Burgess Excel and Oxbow.

As for giving her up, I’m sure it’s not come to that yet – you’re seeking help and looking for a solution to her tummy troubles, you’ve taken her to the vet, you’re trying to help her. You’re doing everything right, and if you keep at it, I’m sure the situation can be resolved. Everyone who knows anything about rabbits has learned it, and there’s absolutely no reason you couldn’t learn as you’re helping your bunny now! I certainly knew very little about proper bunny feeding and digestive troubles until Sukka started getting ill, but I’m glad to say I rose to the occasion and now she’s doing much better. I’m sure you’ll rise to the occasion too, you just need a good plan to get started!

Can you describe her diet more specifically? What does she get on a regular day, and how much of each thing? It’s not completely impossible that her mushy poop could be caused by dietary reasons, and maybe the weight fluctuation too (though that does still seem to me to be indicative of some underlying cause). Does she have constant access to good-quality hay and fresh water? Does she drink water and eat hay? How much pellet are you giving her, is it the same amount every day? Does she eat all of it? How about fresh greens, what types is she getting and how much daily?

[Valleygirl]

Ok thank u so much. I am in the US. I do not recall what brand she had before…we chose the highest protein and crude fat we could find. She has hay and water always. The hay is timothy and its green and fresh and yes has water. Initially to weight gain we kept constant full pellets and then reduced to about 1/8 cup 2 times a day. She does not always finish it lately. And i don’t feel like i see her eating much hay. Fresh foods we r bad on. Nothing regular. I have been reading the stuff here to learn what she needs and will buy her some stuff. She loves the oats …and when she had true diarrhea one day (my daughter gave her 3 grapes….we never do that so i am sure that was it) it did help bind her up. All i have now is steel cut. Are those ok? I am so stressed.

[redbunbun]

Supreme Science Selective should definitely be available in the US! I would look into getting that – it’s high in fiber and is alfalfa-based, so it’s definitely good for a bunny who needs to gain weight. It’s also been great for our bunny’s tummy, she used to get gassy and have loose poops on Excel, and it’s much better now that we’ve switched to SS. Of course, every rabbit will react differently to different foods, so Excel might work for you and SS might not. Both are good pellets!

Another thing you could do is order alfalfa hay, I know Oxbow at least sells it by the bag. It’s much higher in proteins, which means it’s good for weight gain and “bulking up”, since you do want your bunny to gain muscle and not just fat, even though some amount of fat is also healthy. In addition, it tastes much sweeter than regular timothy, and serving it alongside the timothy could definitely help your bunny eat more hay in general. It’s also an excellent source of fiber, which is critical to ensuring that your bunny’s digestive tract is doing its work as well as possible – it’s important that her digestive tract keeps going so that she can absorb the nutrients she needs from her food, and that her appetite keeps up. Again, I would introduce the hay slowly, maybe start with just a small handful and work up to about half timothy and half alfalfa.

Out of fresh foods, there are certain ones I would recommend. You want tummy-friendly veggies high fiber content, good vitamin content and lots of water to keep her gut hydrated, as gut hydration is (again) key in keeping her digestive tract running smoothly. Parsley, mint, fennel and dill are all very easy to come by and recommended for tummy-troubled buns. Fennel is quite strong in taste and smell, so she may not like it right off the bat, but mint for example is usually a bunny favorite. With fresh foods, it’s again very important that you introduce them slowly and make sure to introduce them one at a time! Anything that causes her to bloat or makes her poops go really runny needs to be eliminated immediately and maybe re-introduced in smaller amounts at a later time, or just eliminated entirely.

At the moment, I would maybe cut her old pellets entirely (the current pellets definitely aren’t working for her), cut out her fresh food entirely, and just start introducing the new pellets to her from the bottom up, maybe starting with as little as a tablespoon per day. It’s not ideal, because she’s already thin, but it’s also worrying that her stomach is a bit wonky and she’s even having diarrhea – that means she’s probably not retaining nutrients from her food, even if she is eating it, which would mean that even if she starts eating better and more it may not help her gain back the weight and keep it up. You need to rebuild her diet from the ground up, but it’s very important that she doesn’t go without pellets for too long – I would get the new pellets as soon as possible, and immediately once you have them quit the old ones and start introducing her to the new ones. After she’s introduced to the new pellets, and getting the amount you think she should be getting, you can start introducing fresh foods. Nothing too sugary or starchy, I’d stick to leafy greens, herbs and fennel to start out with. We also give our Sukka some cucumber, as she has troubles with gut hydration and cucumber is almost plain water. If she doesn’t start gaining weight well, I would look into starting to give her oats in addition to her pellets.

At least this is what we did with our Sukka!

[Valleygirl]

When i cut apple she begs. Today…nothing but laying around. Whem we make kissy sounds she jumps up. Nothing. I went to see if she might nibble on romaine and she turned her nose up, started to act like she was getting up and then quickly curled back while almost sounding like a bird cooing for a sex. Something is wrong. Might it just be her tummy hurting so she would rather not move? Should i take her back in to the vet? Ahhhhhhh

[redbunbun]

Oh, and also: you can try adding some unsalted almonds and pumpkin seeds to her daily diet. While most rabbits shouldn’t be getting any nuts or seeds because they’re very high in fats, for a malnourished bunny they’re a great way to speed along weight gain, as they have a lot of healthy fats and lots of nutrition in just one little almond!

For amount comparison, our Sukka currently weighs just south of 3kg (6.6lbs) and her target weight for her current size should be around 4kg (about 8.8lbs). Our over 4kg (he’s about 9lbs) New Zealand Red male is about the same size as our little Sukka, but he’s in good shape and not thin, so we think she should weigh about as much as him when she’s no longer skinny.

Daily, Sukka gets:
3dl of Supreme Science Selective pellets (1.25 cups, split into two meals)
unlimited hay, mixture of alfalfa and timothy (about half and half)
2pcs Oxbow Digestive Support tablets (which I highly recommend!)
Five almonds
A tablespoon of pumpkin seeds

This is her high-calorie weight gain diet, our goal is to get her up to 4kg (little under 9lbs) in weight and see what she looks like there. She’s currently plateau’d on her weight gain due to some mysterious tummy troubles because of her illness, but before this she was gaining 300g/week (0.7lbs) on a diet quite similar to this with Excel pellets instead of Science Selective.

How much does your bunny weigh, approximately? How thin does she feel, is she very bony to the touch or just slightly on the bony side? This would be helpful information in trying to calculate her ideal daily food consumption, though letting her eat as much as she feels up to is also not a bad idea, if you work up to the free pellets slowly: most rabbits do self-regulate, and at least with our Sukka her illness seems to have made her even better at self-regulation.

I hope this helps a little. Of course, not all rabbits are the same, and since your bunny isn’t suffering from the same illness as Sukka is, your outcomes may vary. But Sukka’s diet is definitely a very “basic” diet for malnourished rabbits.

In your shoes, I would also maybe take another quick trip to a rabbit-savvy vet. The weight fluctuation isn’t normal, and unless there have been dramatic changes in her diet that coincide with her dramatic weight loss, it seems very likely to me that there is some underlying illness causing her issues. It could be a genetic problem, a digestive malformation, or anything, really, but it sounds like a typical case of parasites and that’s probably what I’d have the vet check out first. Especially since she’s a rescue, parasites definitely seem like a likely culprit. In addition, a lot of parasites are tricky little buggers that can evade detection, even in a fecal sample. Though parasites wouldn’t explain her gas troubles, everything else fits well: the wet poop, the weight fluctuation, the listlessness, etc.

Also, make sure she gets lots of exercise and drinks a lot of water! Exercise and hydration are both very important factors in keeping her stomach working. We’ve sometimes given Sukka some Manuka honey mixed in with her water (about 1tbsp/350ml) to encourage her to drink more, which in turn has helped her digestive tract move and given her more appetite. Also something to consider if things don’t seem to start working as intended.

[redbunbun]

Oh dear, that doesn’t sound good. Has she taken any food you’ve offered her? When is the last time you’ve seen her eat or poop? Does her stomach feel hard to the touch, like there’s a balloon in her abdominal cavity? Do you hear the gurgling sound?

 

She could be having a bout of stasis or gas, by the sound of it. Both are very dangerous, but treatable if you act quickly and decisively. Can you get her to move around? With both stasis and gas, it’s important that the bunny keeps moving to encourage the gut to move. Can you give her some hay so that you put it in her mouth behind her teeth? That should force her chewing reflex, and if she is indeed in stasis it is important to get her to eat. Do you have a syringe? Making her drink water mixed with honey could be helpful with both gas and stasis – as stated, hydration is key.

 

Do you happen to have any Critical Care or Recovery around? Both would be great for a situation like this.

 

I would definitely take her to a rabbit-savvy vet as this point, and just keep her warm and try to get her to eat something and move around a bit.

[Valleygirl]

Thank u soooo much. I went and got the SS pellets and an orchard blend hay to add to her timothy and we saw changes right away. She loves the food and we are giving 3x a day now to up her weight. Added spring mix and parsley and so far so good. She is her old self again. Phew! I will not change pellets again!!!! Thank u sooo much.

Now my next question…she looks to have fur loss at the base of her ears, exactlt the same both sides. I do not believe its mites bc i dont see her bothered by it at all. Can there b another reason.

[Valleygirl]

Thank u soooo much. I went and got the SS pellets and an orchard blend hay to add to her timothy and we saw changes right away. She loves the food and we are giving 3x a day now to up her weight. Added spring mix and parsley and so far so good. She is her old self again. Phew! I will not change pellets again!!!! Thank u sooo much.

Now my next question…she looks to have fur loss at the base of her ears, exactlt the same both sides. I do not believe its mites bc i dont see her bothered by it at all. Can there b another reason.

[redbunbun]

Sounds good! I would be wary of introducing too many new things too fast, though, and I would keep the amount she gets of each new food low to start out with and then work her up to larger portions. That way you don’t risk upsetting her tummy. But it’s nice to hear that she is feeling better so soon.

 

I don’t know much about fur loss and ear mites, I’m afraid – dietary concerns are more my area of expertise!

[Bam]

Fur mites don’t always bother the bunny when the infestation is low grade. If it’s fur or ear mites, there’s always some “dandruff” or scaling of the skin accompanying it, not just hair loss. You will have to observe the area for now. If it doesn’t get worse, it’s not mites. Fur mites might affect other pets in the household if they come into close contact with the bun.

[Valleygirl]

She is still doing great. Loves loves loves her new food. Adding more and more greens daily. She is already looking fluffier and no tummy grumbles yet!

As for the ears I see no dandruff or scales or anything at all. Just thin hair and can see pinkish of her skin? She is not bothered at all. So will keep monitoringm

[Author]

Messages