Pellets

[BB & Tiny]

Has anyone else read the ingredients on the pellet bag and been mortified ?

Oxbow, supposedly a top brand containing soy hulls and soy bean ? Cane molasses ? I recently bought some of their treats which also had cane molasses and preservatives which I refuse to feed my babies. I have now made my own cookies without the ” ground pellets ” or added sugar ( honey )  I read in most recipes. A little harder to roll out but they love them.

Has anyone gone pellet free ? I believe I saw an paragraph on House rabbit society on that. I visited our ” bunny ” vet recently and she said 1 tbsp of pellets only. Which is what started this quest of healthier eating for my babies. My little girl reacted to fruit, so now the only fruit given is what is baked in the cookies.

[HerculesandMolasses]

It’s okay to go pellet free as long as you make up for it with more veggies and a lot of variation of them.

[BB & Tiny]

Thank you

I think I have that covered. Thankfully they prefer the new bale of the most beautiful timothy hay I brought home last week over pellets anyway.

[Megabunny]

Keep watch of her weight. My vet got mad at me because I wasn’t forcing my bun to eat hay, so I cut back his pellets to 1/2 cup (he’s big) and lots of hay and his usual salad and he lost too much weight in my opinion. He hasn’t been back to that vet (we will go back, he’s just really far away) yet but I stopped in a vet in my neighborhood just to use the scales and it appeared Gus had dropped lower than I wanted him to, so I’m dealing with that. Sorry. I believe in some pellets each day for the vitamins if nothing else. But it’s a personal choice

[LongEaredLions]

If you go pellet free, you must provide 10+ types of veggies every day, as well as forage and several different hays. Additionally, all rabbits react differently, so there is no guarantee that pellet-free would be beneficial to your bun. I would talk to your vet about this, they can help you create a balanced diet.

[vanessa]

I thought my little guy was underweight. He had picked up half a pound since I brought him home, but the vet said he felt good. Said he likes to feel some, nto all, but some skeleton on a bunny. Says wild rabbits aren’t well rounded. Like a cheetah. Sleek. My little dude is definitely sleek. I’m happy with his weight. My female, is definitely overweight. I would love to be able to go pellet free. Lately I’ve been giving my bunnies their salads 3 times a day. In the mornings each bunny gets 1 Tbsp shredded carrots, 1 chopped celery stick, 2 romaine lettuce leaves. When I get home from work, they each get 2 cups of mixed greens (usually turnip, collards, curly kale). When I go to bed they get 1/4 bell pepper, 4 leaves flat kale, 1 sprig mint, 1 sprig basil, 4 borage leaves, 1 sunflower leaf, a pinch lemon balm leaves. I switched to orchard hay because my little guy doesn’t eat timothy. But now that he is eating orchard, I could try mixing timothy in with it. I spend a fair amount of time gardening, growing greens for the bunnies, and in winter, I have to shop for veggies. I think going pellet free would be difficult. I would need to double the veggies I feed them, because after eating all of this, they still eat 1/2 cup pellets a day. When I harvest the millet and other seed for my birds, I give the bunnies the rest of the millet/seed grass. It is a lot of work. I think I might be inclined to try this first with my outdoor buns. I seed the lawn so they get decent forage. I think next spring I will add my array of salad/veggie seeds to their lawn, and see how much pellets they end up eating.

I was a bit shocked myself when I read the pallet food labels… It would be interesting to hear from anyone who is pellet free.

[BB & Tiny]

Thank you everyone for the replies !

Combined they weight 5 lbs. Him being 3 and her 2. So the amount of pellets is 1/4 c which I do give them even though the one vet stated 1 tbsp. Perhaps I will look into fortified pellets minus the ” soy ” and ” cane molasses ” both of which are no recommended in a bunnies diet. Why Oxbow has included that in their formula I have no idea.

I will be visiting our regular vet soon to have their nails done and will ask her opinion. I saw her today for the cat and brought her some cookies for her bunny but didn’t broach the pellet topic.

Ten different greens daily ? I think we are only up to seven…

[BB & Tiny]

@Vanessa..Damn that sounds like an immense amount of work daily, very dedicated ! I don’t grown my greens, I buy them. The vet said Kale is to high in calcium, as well as dandelion greens, so feed sparingly. I was feeding them daily previously.

I may make some cookies with a kale base, as they are treats.

[BB & Tiny]

@Megabunny

I hope your bun achieves a healthy weight. Thankfully my babies love the bale of timothy I brought home recently and favor it over the pellets. My boy bunny is .2 of a lb over his ” limit ” but healthy.

I don’t have an issue per say with feeding pellets, only the ones with sugar and soy I suppose.

[BB & Tiny]

@Vanessa

That was meant to read ” I feed kale and dandelion greens sparingly ” not as advice of any type.

[HotCrossBuns]

I’ve bee having the same issue with Oxbow. I am not okay with soy, since most is GMO. But they have the Natural Science pellets. The don’t have soy but still have cane molasses. Just figured I would post in case you wanted to have a look at the ingredients.

https://www.oxbowvetconnect.com/products/type/detail?object=8239

[BB & Tiny]

@hotcrossbuns

Thank you I will have a look.

[vanessa]

I don’t go sparingly on the dandelions. When I see them looking big and green in the yard, I pluck them all for the bunnies. They grow great in shaded areas, and grow well into the winter. I can remember plucking dandelions last winter every month – except when covered by snow. When I was a teenager, I had guineapigs. One of my rescue guineapigs was fed a low quality pellet only diet, and had developed “cage paralysis”. I force fed her cod liver oil for the D and A, and when she could eat, I gave her dandelions. all she would eat. She recovered well. Dandelions make my bunnies pee orange/red, like beets. But I don’t skimp on them. They loooove dandelion leaves. They don’t get them every day – just as a treat when I see they are ripe for the picking… And then they get about 5-10 plants each. They devour them.
@Hotcrossbuns – I also recently purchased the Natural Science pellets – because I don’t like GMO either.
I do need to research the effects of high calcium. I know that white stain after pee indicates high calcium.

[vanessa]

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-5/calcium.html

http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/resources/content/info-sheets/calcium.htm

http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/calcium.shtml

Interesting articles about calcium problems.

Good point about the calcium. Looking at the ratios I feed – Kale actually isn’t the concern. Wh I pluck kale fromt he garden. It’s relally small. Young sweet leaves. I think the real calcium-offender is the collards. My bunnies love collards. I often feed then a large leave each a day I think the mixed bag has a good variety, but the collards dominate, and the kale is in the minority. Collards have more calcium than kale. The dandelion feast is once or twice a month. I think collards might be my routine calcium offender… I’ll have to think of how to rearrange their varieties… don’t want my bunnies getting kidney stones…

[vanessa]

It gets complicated… when you look at what has high calcium, what has high oxalic acids, that’s when pellets make sense. I think I want to cross reference a list of low oxalic acid with low calcium – and see what it is…

[BB & Tiny]

@vanessa

Believe it or not I was buying dandelion greens from whole foods, lol..$4 a bunch. It was a bit of a relief when she said not to feed them, because they love them so. Mind you that bunch lasted a considerable amount of time. I have some in the yard also, they don’t seem overly interested in those when I put them outside to play in their pen.

I will check some of those links, thank you !

[vanessa]

From what I read, anything over 50mg calcium seems to be on the “high” list. So here is my list of both low calcium and low oxalic acid:

Arugula
Carrot tops
Cucumber leaves
Endive
Ecarole
Frisee Lettuce
Mache
Red or green lettuce
Romaine lettuce
Spring greens
Mint (any variety)
Basil (any variety)
Watercress
Wheatgrass
Raspberry leaves
Cilantro
Radicchio
Bok Choy
Fennel (the leafy tops as well as the base)
Dill leaves
Yu choy
Carrots
Broccoli (leaves and stems)
Edible flowers (roses, nasturtiums, pansies, hibiscus)
Celery
Bell peppers (any color)
Brussel sprouts
Cabbage (any type)
Broccolini
Summer squash
Zucchini squash

[BB & Tiny]

Spring greens and watercress is listed as high, on that UK link.

Good Calcium Providers:

· Kale (130)
· Spinach (170)
· Parsley (200)
· Watercress (170)
· Mint (210)
· Spring Greens (210)

Moderate Calcium Providers:

Cabbage (49)
Broccoli (56)
Celery (41)
Lettuce: round/flat (53)
Parsnip (41)
Swede (53)
Turnip (48)
Oranges (47)

Poor Calcium Providers:

Brussel Sprouts (26)
Carrots (25)
Cauliflower (21)
Cucumber (18)
Lettuce: Iceberg (19)
Peppers: Red/Green (8)
Tomatoes (7)
Apple (4)
Apricot (15)
Banana (6)
Grapes (13)
Kiwi Fruit (25)
Nectarines (7)
Peaches (7)
Pears (11)
Pineapple (18)
Strawberries (16)

[Megabunny]

One of my favorite people who has been on here forever says Kale is fine. I believe if there’s a concern about calcium and their urinary tracts then MAYBE cutting back on calcium helps but I’m not sure the experts have agreed on that. I just worry about the oxalis acid foods.
So jealous of anyone who can pick so many dandelions as I used to pick them all the time back in NY. I’m going to try and grow them in containers as winter approaches, though things are cooling off so I’ll start soon. Right now I’m growing some cucumbers just to get leaves as well as sunflowers and carrots…all just for the greens, so it’s not any major gardening feat.

[Megabunny]

Oh and I think molasses is in horse feed isn’t it? Idk but my vet supplies Oxbow and he’s into everything latest and greatest about rabbits… conferences, books…and super smart, though I still won’t agree with him on getting my rabbit, bred for meat, to lose all that much weight. I think Gus is at a better weight now though with some cutting back on pellets

[BB & Tiny]

Binding agent, anti-dust agent and palatability enhancer

The main use of cane molasses is as a binding agent in feed mills. Molasses allows the feed granules to stick together during the pelleting process, which produces pellets that are less likely to break down during transportation and passage through feeding equipment. Molasses also reduces dustiness in fine-particled feeds. Due to its sucrose content, it improves the palatability of feeds and can even mask the bitter taste of urea (Blair, 2007). The amount used in dry feeds is usually small, lower than 15% DM and usually in the 2-5% range (Blair, 2007; Fuller, 2004).

http://www.feedipedia.org/node/561

It is excellent you are growing those for leaves. I find some of the leaves they list as food sources are somewhat obscure for the average shopper ! Like raspberry leaves ? Can’t say I’ve ever found those in a store.

[BB & Tiny]

http://www.feedipedia.org/node/561

Binding agent, anti-dust agent and palatability enhancer

The main use of cane molasses is as a binding agent in feed mills. Molasses allows the feed granules to stick together during the pelleting process, which produces pellets that are less likely to break down during transportation and passage through feeding equipment. Molasses also reduces dustiness in fine-particled feeds. Due to its sucrose content, it improves the palatability of feeds and can even mask the bitter taste of urea (Blair, 2007). The amount used in dry feeds is usually small, lower than 15% DM and usually in the 2-5% range (Blair, 2007; Fuller, 2004).

Good you are growing those for leaves. I find some of the leaves they list for food sources to be quite obscure in nature.

[BB & Tiny]

Oops, double post. My apologies, it wasn’t showing up.

[Megabunny]

Raspberry leaves! Oh I used to pick those all the time in NY too! Walked around our country setting and snitched from people’s wild growing bushes that I’m sure only the animals ate from. Boy I miss those! Now it’s $4 dandelions and huge produce bills, not to mention on-line hay. Ugh!

[Bam]

My bunnies won’t eat raspberry leaves. Too bad because I’ve got thousands of raspberry plants, they just pop up everywhere.
MB, I would’ve thought everything (almost) grew like crazy in South Carolina. Like peaches. My Bam loves peaches. He actually tolerates them too.

I pick dandelion, plantain, plain grasses and yarrow for my buns this time of year, plus they get apple twigs with leaves on them. And Jerusalem artichoke leaves.

[Megabunny]

There don’t seem to be apple trees around here, though I’m in much more of a city than I was before, so even some of the clover I see by the side of the road isn’t something I would pick because of all the cars and exhaust. Cottontail occasionally brings Gus some grasses from her back yard, but we are too citified for that and people would be aghast if we had weeds!! Ugh! Thus, my attempt to grow anything and everything in planters just enough for salad toppers. I can’t believe your kids won’t eat raspberry leaves. I just don’t have the room to plant anything here and I’m not usually somewhere to pick so, yeah, this state has gotten a lot more expensive. I’d thought about maybe fostering some rabbits through the cooler weather, but feeding one rabbit is enough right now. 🙁

[Nibbler2012]

Hey there

Just thought I would chime in, I too was ‘mortified’ reading the ingredients on rabbit pellets available near me (Ontario, Canada).

I found Sherwood Forest pellets with simple ingredients, the alfalfa hay through me off, but after reading up about it I was convinced. They have 2 types of pellets, for hay eaters and non-hay eaters. I got both and mixed them, serving the amount described for the hay-eater (supplement). Nibbler is on a bit of a diet at the recommendation of her vet. She loves the new pellets, they smell so fresh. Also the owner David is quick to respond and will provide a lot of info if you ask.

I also found Farmer Dave brand pellets that only contain hay, not fortified with anything. I didn’t choose them because I did want some extra vitamins (but not vitamin D3 from wool).

[Megabunny]

I’d agree. The pellets need to be fortified with something. How do our buns ever survive? ha ha

[BB & Tiny]

Those pellets look quite simple. I’d be concerned about the flax as it has been known to change estrogen levels in humans. At least there are no sugars.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/141046-flax-seed-bad-side-effects/

[Bam]

I think vets today increasingly recommend hay, hay and more hay for bunnies. Some even recommend 95% of daily calories from hay. Hay that’s been sun-cured has vitamin D in it, plus there seems to be some uncertainty as to whether bunnies really need a lot of vitamin D. They don’t seem to process calcium quite like other mammals (vitamin D is required for calcium-uptake in most mammals, but perhaps not bunnies.)

Hay is a species-appropriate diet since rabbits are foliovores and mostly eat grasses. I honestly think rabbit pellets first were “invented” to get meat-rabbits into a state of plumpness in the shortest time possible. Kind of like broiler-food. Since meat-rabbits never live to see old age, longevity and geriatric health and such never entered into the equation.

I give my buns very little pellets, but they do get some every day. In the summer they get lots of forage, because it’s easily available to me. They eat considerably more hay during winter because the store-bought greens thata are available in winter (apparently) aren’t as yummy as those I can pick outside during the vegetation period.

[Megabunny]

Bam, I think you and I would have such fun foraging for bunny food together! When I was a kid my dad said he couldn’t afford to buy rabbit pellets in summer when there was a yard full of food, so I spent countless hours picking weeds to feed my rabbit. I still love doing it. But the best I get here is a neighbor with a willow tree who has said to help myself to whatever I want. I’ve wondered about trying to dry them into willow wreaths, but now the leaves have brown spots unless it’s just the new growth on the ends. I only have an oven anyway and I’m somehow squeamish about the potential for missing a bug that may be on the leaves and then it would get baked in my oven. 🙁 Ick

[Nibbler2012]

Posted By BunLove on 9/14/2015 7:53 PM 

Those pellets look quite simple. I’d be concerned about the flax as it has been known to change estrogen levels in humans. At least there are no sugars.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/141046-flax-seed-bad-side-effects/

Trigger warning…

From this link:

“Overdose Effects

Effects of a flax seed overdose have been researched in animal studies, according to the NIH. Signs may include shortness of breath, rapid breathing, weakness and trouble walking. A flax seed overdose also may cause seizures or paralysis.”

This makes me so sad, why is this still happening?  This whole article is messed up.  The part about narrowed esophagus can be mitigated by the fact you are supposed to grind up the flax seeds before consumption (or you could chew the living cecotropes out of them)…but the part about intentionally ODing animals is disturbing.

[BB & Tiny]

@Nibbler2012

Sorry I didn’t read the entire article, had I seen that I’d of chosen a better information source.

[BB & Tiny]

Double post again. I think I will assume it posted from now on ? Even though I can’t see it.

[Nibbler2012]

@BunLove – I apologize if it appeared I was attacking you at all. I did not mean my comment to come across like that.

I was just blown away by the article. Aside from the animal testing, it’s almost funny, who eats that much flax? I usually use a tablespoon of ground flax to 3 tbls warm water as an egg replacer when baking. (ground chia works too, or apple sauce, even a bit of soy/nut milk with a bit of vinegar will do the trick)

[Bam]

Bun love, science is often cruel and not seldom unbearably so. Still if our bunnies can benefit from knowledge derived from scientific testing there was at least some point to the suffering of the lab animals. We often quote scientific findings here regarding safety of drugs etc, and while the experiments behind the findings may be so terribly sad, we need them to keep our bunnys safe and sound. It would result in more suffering and fatalities if we all did our own uncontrolled experiments with different foods and meds for bunnies. So don’t be sorry about linking to that article.
MB, I think we would have so much fun and our bunnies be so happy! Could you perhaps dry willow wreaths then put them in the freezer for like 48 hs to kill bugs and stuff? (Or maybe dry them after freezing). You could freeze them in plastic bags. Willow wreaths dry very well at room temp. I made a few this summer, but guess who didn’t want anything to do with them?

[Nibbler2012]

Posted By bam on 9/15/2015 2:01 PM

Bun love, science is often cruel and not seldom unbearably so. Still if our bunnies can benefit from knowledge derived from scientific testing there was at least some point to the suffering of the lab animals.

I respectfully disagree.  Some of these ‘lab animals’ are bunnies don’t forget.  Science may be cruel, but there are lots of willing (this may be a little presumptive, since I’m sure if there wasn’t such thing a poverty and all that bad stuff there wouldn’t be as many) people that are able to consent to testing on themselves.

Now I know this isn’t a vegan forum, but I love Nibbler and all other animals, and they are all equal. Sorry for ranting.

[Megabunny]

Bam, I was wondering if I could dry them at room temp. I think that will be my project for next summer, since I don’t know what to make of the brown spots on the leaves. It’s probably nothing,but looks awful so I only am trimming the parts with new growth for Gus to eat. FURTHERMORE the people had the NERVE to cut back all the branches and I can barely reach any of them!! I doubt it will take long for them to regrow, but sheesh!!

[Author]

Messages