Forum

OUR FORUM IS UP BUT WE ARE STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF UPDATING AND FIXING THINGS.  SOME THINGS WILL LOOK WEIRD AND/OR NOT BE CORRECT. YOUR PATIENCE IS APPRECIATED.  We are not fully ready to answer questions in a timely manner as we are not officially open, but we will do our best. 

You may have received a 2-factor authentication (2FA) email from us on 4/21/2020. That was from us, but was premature as the login was not working at that time. 

BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately! Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

What are we about?  Please read about our Forum Culture and check out the Rules

BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately!  Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES 

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet.  It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

Forum DIET & CARE Informational Account of Simba’s Fatal Choking Incident

Viewing 8 reply threads
  • Author
    Messages

    • mijOok
      Participant
      177 posts Send Private Message

        As the dust has settled, I just wanted to share my experience with Simba’s fatal choking incident to provide some info in a collective post. BinkyBunny had served as such a resource during my wonderful but too short ownership of Simba and I hope sharing this experience will contribute to the breadth of knowledge that can be found on this forum. Surprisingly with all the fast munchers we have, choking was not a big topic I came across and I learned too late to have prevented my Simba from inhaling his food to fatality. I’ll highlight a couple points at the top followed by a really lengthy, detailed account of the incident.

        ***If your bunny eats pellets very fast, serving them in a bowl is highly discouraged. I recommend either having the pellets scattered on the floor or use a cat/dog food dispensing treat ball so that they cannot access too many pellets at once. Or eliminate pellets from their diet altogether…***

        ***An exotics vet is so important, but even with an exotic vet, a second opinion should be considered if available for decisions on major things for a rabbit like an ultra-sound (also taking into account the vibe you get from the vet and what kind of animal care facility they are at). Unfortunately some places lend more to just making money, and if the real compassion is not there… that can be a greater danger to your furbaby no matter how renowned or knowledgeable the vet may be..***

        ***To be clear, choking is not always fatal! The vet shared with me many similar cases where the bunnies recovered successfully and even stories where they weren’t even brought to the vet and the bunny had returned to normal within hours on their own. However, a choking incident should warrant a follow-up vet visit within 48 hours to make sure it wasn’t aspirated.***

        ***In Simba’s case – the necropsy results showed that he had aspirated the food into his lungs that caused a reaction which ultimately collapsed his left lung. This incident was fatal because it caused him too much difficulty to breathe. Vets don’t perform a lobectomy (removal of a lung lobe) on rabbits because it’s so small and the surgery would be so invasive that the chances of survival from such a surgery are extremely low. ***

        The Incident – Regular weeknight as I gave Simba his regular “dinner” serving of pellets, he dug right in but picked his head up abruptly, and began choking. As rabbits do not have a gag reflex, he began trying to “cough” up what had gone down the wrong way. Shortly he had a watery, brown mucus getting coughed out through his mouth and nose and was visibly having trouble breathing. My husband and I rushed him to a 24-hr animal hospital as an emergency (not my normal vet but I knew they saw exotics from a previous bout of stasis) within 20 minutes. However, the emergency vet on overnight duty was not an exotics vet. They took x-rays and suspected aspiration that may cause aspirated pneumonia. So Simba was checked-in to an oxygen tank overnight and was started on antibiotics until he would be handled by the exotics team in the morning. I got to see him before leaving the hospital and felt uneasy with the noisy environment caused by other animals in the facility. I asked the tech that had brought me in and she just told me that it quiets down through the night. I also asked if they’ll be cleaning him up of the dried mucus he had around his nose and mouth, and she just told me from the emergency assessing they just haven’t gotten to the cleaning part yet. So with that I headed home…

        Upon my update by the exotics vet in the morning, she requested bloodwork to be done because she wasn’t convinced it was aspirated pneumonia from the x-rays. On top of that, they had removed Simba from the oxygen tank into a regular cage because his breathing had “improved” from last night to breathe on his own.

        A few hours later when the bloodwork results had come in, the exotics vet (specialized in rabbits) called again but with less than pleasant news that she now suspects a very serious condition called liver torsion based on the x-rays (not convinced to be aspiration) and the levels found in Simba’s bloodwork compared to bloodwork they had on file from a year ago when I brought him in for stasis. This needed an ultrasound to confirm. So I told her for financial reasons I would need to call back to authorize this as it was too unexpected from my checking him in for an episode of choking. I did some quick research as I was still at work and found that liver torsion was not a common condition to be diagnosed and would be very serious if it were the case. I was not convinced of this new diagnosis and my gut began feeling like something was not right. Additionally, the vet’s basis was mostly on the new bloodwork compared to old bloodwork they only happened to have because I had brought him there in the past. Without the old bloodwork for comparison, she really didn’t have much of a basis for diagnosing such an uncommon and serious condition.

        From a past negative experience with an emergency animal hospital and the fact that I was worried the environment with all sorts of animals would further stress Simba, I decided to reach out to Catnip & Carrots, a vet that only sees rabbits and cats if I could bring Simba in even though he hasn’t been seen by them before. Simba’s regular vet close to home is an exotics vet too, but again it’s a facility that also sees other animals. Dr. Saver at C&C was okay with taking Simba in based on everything I told her and I scheduled that day to discharge Simba from the animal hospital to bring him to C&C. The vet at the animal hospital during the discharge told me flatly that my option for discharging him meant that Simba would not live if it is liver torsion (and he was never cleaned up around his mouth and nose!). There was absolutely no compassion in her tone during this obviously stressful time. C&C understood my urgency and allowed me a slot as their last patient before closing time. She took a new x-ray because the x-ray photocopies provided by the hospital was unclear and was pretty sure it was aspiration and even showed me similar x-rays from other cases. On top of that, she was almost certain it’s not liver torsion and noted that at the difficulty Simba was having to breathe that an ultrasound might have killed him from the amount of stressful handling that would be done to get the ultrasound! Going almost an hour past their closing time already, Dr. Saver was patient, compassionate, shared stories of other cases where rabbits were brought in for choking and even offered to call me later in the night (like 11 PM) to update me on how he reacts to the medication (Lasix to remove the water from his lungs). He definitely still needed to be in an oxygen tank because he was struggling to breathe on his own and needed a heating pad to keep his temperature up. Everything made sense as related to the choking that started this whole thing.

        Dr. Saver had called at night as promised to update me and Simba seemed okay with the meds despite still having trouble breathing. She even offered to call again in the afternoon the next day after she finishes with personal business she had out of the office in the morning. Unfortunately, Simba passed away sometime overnight in the oxygen tank and Dr. Saver on her personal cell phone upon being notified by her staff called me in the morning to let me know. But she offered the necropsy and a memorial trinket with Simba’s fur in an attempt to provide me comfort and closure. I told her I may not be able to get out of work early again to make their closing time and she assured me since staff are still around after closing that they’d wait for me so that I can go see his body before doing the necropsy. When I got there, the other vet that was there brought him out resting peacefully on a pet bed. Simba had been cleaned up, even nails trimmed and she let me know to take as much time as I needed with him. They didn’t bring up paying my balance during this visit to see him and only confirmed that I wanted the necropsy, memorial trinket and a private cremation.

        It’s been a little over two weeks now since Simba passed. I’ve gone back to pick up Simba’s cremains and paid the balance for treatment he did receive and the cremation. In these two weeks, Dr. Saver has sent me a beautiful card with a seal-point lop on the front and a personally handwritten message inside and has called me each time she had any updates from the necropsy. I’ve found closure from the necropsy in knowing that nothing would’ve saved my Simba because he would’ve never been able to breathe on his own and I’ve found comfort in that he passed away at C&C and not at the animal hospital where I don’t think he would’ve received the dignity and compassion he received at C&C and affirmed my decision to discharge him rather than to have authorized the ultrasound. Thank you all who have sent my Simba bun healing vibes and words of comfort. Sorry it’s so lengthy but I hope it will help others in whatever information they are seeking for through this forum.


        Forever in my heart <3 Binky Free Simba 4.29.13 ~ 8.6.15 <3


      • Bam
        Moderator
        16869 posts Send Private Message

          Thank you so much, mijoOk.

          I hope and believe other rabbit-owners (and rabbits) will benefit from this information. I’m glad you got closure from the necropsy and that you took Simba to that wonderful vet at Catnip and Carrots. It is so sad that you had to lose him.


        • BarbaraC
          Participant
          77 posts Send Private Message

            First of all, I am so sorry to hear that Simba lost his battle.

            Secondly, wow! I can’t believe the vet diagnosed liver torsion given Simba’s symptoms. I speak from experience having just had a bunny with it, breathing issues and discharge were not a symptom. Also, there are two courses of treatment for liver torsion, surgery or supportive care. The outcome from both are about the same, 50/50. So saying that you would be doing the wrong thing in taking him home is completely wrong.

            There is definitely a few lessons to be learned here though. Just like with people doctors, animal doctors are not infallible and as rabbit owners we have a responsibility to educate ourselves as much as possible on what little is know about our bunnies health and always go with your gut. If you think that what the vet is saying doesn’t make sense you have every right to question them and seek a second opinion.


          • BarbaraC
            Participant
            77 posts Send Private Message

              P.S. Thank you for sharing your account with everyone. 


            • vanessa
              Participant
              2212 posts Send Private Message

                I’m so sorry. That’s such a sad story. Brings tears to my eyes 🙁


              • mijOok
                Participant
                177 posts Send Private Message

                  Thank you BarbaraC and also thank you for your detailed account of your experience with liver torsion in my initial post when Simba was still in the animal hospital. It had also helped me gain a better understanding of liver torsion and secure my decision on discharging him from their care (convinced that it’s not liver torsion). That vet did not think I’d be able to provide the supportive care to keep him alive if her diagnosis of the liver torsion was accurate…


                • DaisyMae
                  Participant
                  69 posts Send Private Message

                    I just read your story, and it brought tears to my eyes … many tears. Thank you so much for sharing, and as of today, I will be making a change in how I give my bun her pellets. Since she doesn’t get very many of them, she absolutely goes crazy for them. I do put a few in the bamboo toy (the same one I see in your picture), and I will scatter a few in a box of hay so she can find them, however, I do put some in a bowl to bribe her back in her cage, and she practically runs me down to get at them. Perhaps instead of the bowl, I will scatter some around her cage to bribe her back in. You are so brave for sharing with us, and as a spiritual person, I truly believe there is a special place for all our animals in the after life.


                  • Xxventanaxx
                    Participant
                    356 posts Send Private Message

                      such a touching story. so sorry for your loss. Just know the time Simba was alive he had the best life possible.


                    • emm_renn
                      Participant
                      309 posts Send Private Message

                        I would have never thought such a thing was possible. I am so sorry for your loss, but thank you for brining the situation to light.

                    Viewing 8 reply threads
                    • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

                    Forum DIET & CARE Informational Account of Simba’s Fatal Choking Incident