Hannah has EC, advice appreciated

[MissD]

Hi, I haven’t posted for a while, mainly because I started working nights and sleep through the day . Hannah’s in stasis at the moment and, as some of you may remember, I’ve got a lot of experience there as Buddy was sick every two weeks for a period of time I want to forget about. Anyway, we saw a vet about an hour ago, she did everything right I think – gave her a gut stimulant, pain killers and some sub-q liquids. Thing is Hannah is a little bit unstable on her feet now. Looks like it’s her front feet that are the problem. Buddy never had sub-q’s when he was ill and he was never like this. Could the sub-q injection have caused Hannah’s wobbliness or do you think it’s something else? She was all right this morning.The vet says it’s the injection but I simply don’t know. What do you think?

[Bam]

My Yohio has had sub q fluids twice and it never caused wobbliness. Did the vet give you any sort of explanation as to how sub q fluids could cause wobbliness?

[MissD]

She said that Hannah might be a bit sore around her neck but I didn’t think it made sense. What could cause wobbliness though? Maybe it’s not stasis at all?

[Bam]

I suppose the fluids could press onto her cervical/thoracic vertebrae where the outlets of the nerves to the front legs are. If it’s a lot of fluids it could be possible. How long ago was the fluids given?
((((((Hannah))))))

[MissD]

About an hour and a half ago. She’s still very wobbly, she has trouble even washing her face. Do you think it could be the early stages of e cuniculi or something? I don’t have any idea what’s going on with her, she was perfectly alright this morning and now all of a sudden she’s like this.

[Bam]

I have no experience with e cuniculi, but obviously that’s what first comes to mind when there are neuro signs. Have you mentioned e c to your vet?

[MissD]

No, didn’t think about it at all till now

[Bam]

i think you should ask your vet if the wobbliness persists more than a few hours, since it’d be important to get her under treatment asap if it is e c.

[jerseygirl]

{{{Hannah}}} I’m sorry to hear she’s unwell.
For pain med, was it just metacam (meloxicam) she was given?

ETA: if there is EC infection, the meds she’s had so far are beneficial. Especially the pain med as it will keep inflammation down.

[MissD]

She had metacam jerseygirl. It’s official now, she has EC. We got meds and started treatment straight away, treating Buddy too. She is very dizzy now, she can’t even lick herself without falling over. My poor girl I’m so worried. Will I have to feed her? She doesn’t want to eat, she had some water. What about toilet, will I have to clean her butt for her? She won’t be able to do it herself, she keeps falling over. It’s all so overwhelming, I’ve never had to deal with anything this serious before. Should I keep her free ranging or would be safer for her to keep her in a smaller area? I’ll appreciate any advice.

[Bam]

I’m so sorry to hear this, but I’m glad you got the diagnosis so swiftly. Didn’t your vet give you any advice as to how to care for her? You will have to feed her I think, she will need all her strength + strength from food.

[MissD]

I got critical care for her, I’ve just tried feeding her but she spits it all out. Do rabbits with EC eat on their own at all or do you have to syringe feed all the time? The vet told me the basics but I’d like some advice from bunny owners, especially those who had to deal with EC. I just want as much advice as I can get.

[Bam]

Bumping this.

[RabbitPam]

I saw that Hannah was ill earlier today, so am glad you are posting more about her here.

I just did a keyword search of our forums for other discussions of E.C. One had a link Sarita provided about a study done by some experts known to us.
Here’s that link: http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-2/e-cuniculi.html

You can also do a keyword search to read other posts from the past (read only). Many seem to have come up in 2010, so I don’t know what progress has been made since, but the basics may help answer some of your questions or provide tips about how other bunnies were cared for in the long term.
So glad you caught it early!

[LittlePuffyTail]

I’m sorry to hear Hannah is unwell.

A few years ago, Bindi did something similar. After a bad bout of stasis that lasted a few days, he suddenly started showing EC symptoms (wobbly, stasis and nystagmus). The vet started him on a course of Fenbendazole (I’m sorry I can’t remember the duration). After about a week, he was pretty much back to normal. My vet credits early treatment to his recovery. Hopefully, you caught Hannah’s early enough too.

I would limit her space. It will probably frustrating and possibly dangerous for her to try to hop around normally. I would offer her lots of padding to keep her comfortable and in case she falls.

My vet suspected with Bindi that he began showing EC symptoms because his stasis had stressed out his body so much. Many bunnies are EC carriers but never show any symptoms.

Wishing your Hannah a ((((Speedy Recovery))))

[MissD]

I got her space sorted and she looks pretty comfortable although she keeps trying to wash her face and keeps falling over She still hasn’t pooped or weed and she just won’t eat. I tried everything, including syringing critical care but she keeps spitting it out. We keep trying though. She drinks quite a lot of water which is better than nothing. The vet gave me some Zantac this morning thinking she was in stasis, would it be ok to give it to her? It won’t interfere with panacur, will it? I just really want her to start eating and pooping.

[LBJ10]

Have you tried hand feeding her some lettuce? Sometimes sick buns will take veggies if handed to them. Poor Hannah, I’m sorry you’re having to go through this. Hopefully you caught it early.

[Bam]

I searched for interactions between panacur and zantac, but found none, which doesn’t mean there aren’t any. I think you should give your vet a quick call about it, because apparently Panacur can cause nausea and Zantac can help with that, a nauseous bunny wouldn’t want to eat.

[jerseygirl]

((({{{Hannah}}})))

It’s official now, she has EC. We got meds and started treatment straight away,

What is she on? I’m assuming panacur? Has vet continued her on metacam? That’s really important.
If she’s dizzy, you might be looking at inner ear infection so an antibiotic would be a good safeguard.

Some people have had success with meclizine. It’s actually an antihistamine but has properties that help dizziness and nausea. It might help bring back her apetite. Meanwhile, offer things in a bowl like pellet mush, grated carrot or apple. Herbs she can pick up. Fresh or dry forage.

I know this is overwhelming!
(((Hugs)))

[MissD]

We are going back to the vet this morning. Hannah hasn’t eaten or pooped for over 20 hours. All she had is the CC we managed to syringe feed her. Her head started to tilt now as well. She’s a very sick and confused girl Jerseygirl – I did not get painkillers but will ask when I see the vet. She is on panacur yes. I will ask about Meclizine. Thank you all, I appreciate the advice.

[Gina.Jenny]

((((Hannah))))

[jerseygirl]

Sometimes a vet will give cortisone injection in the beginning. They can only give 1 or 2 and it’s short acting. Also other NSAID cannot be given for a period of time after. So no metacam after for 24hrs I think (???)
It might be worth asking about.
It’s one of these treatments that vets can be for or against.
A friend of mine thinks it’s what helped her 2 rabbits that developed head tilt. I also noticed Maple was able to get in her feet for the first time after a cortisone shot. I continued with metacam after that wore off.

Don’t leave without metacam. It’s difficult to be insistent, especially when you’re stressed about your rabbit. Seek a second opinion if you have too. As I said earlier, the metacam is important as an anti-inflammatory in infection.

[Bam]

I read that Panacur should be given together with Baytril for e c. http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/treatment.shtml It seems it’s another one of those that vets can be for or against.

Cortisone is often given when there is inflammation in the nervous system, it dampens the body’s own immune response which often is too vigorous and does more harm than good in these instances.

(((((((Hannah)))))))

[MissD]

We’re now back from the vet. We got painkillers and Domperidone. And the vet said it’s ok to use Zantac which I’m happy about, it worked really well when Bud was in stasis. I managed to get all the meds in her and also some more CC. She drinks on her own. Still hasn’t pooped or weed. The vet examined her tummy and said it didn’t feel full of poop but there’s definitely a lot of gas in there. Hopefully the meds should help with that. I asked about Baytril but she said Hannah didn’t need it as it doesn’t look like an ear infection (she did look into her ears and said there would be at least a little bit of discharge??). I asked about Cortisone and she said it may be a little bit too drastic and let’s wait and see how Hannah does with Panacur first.

[Cottontail]

{{{continued healing vibes}}}
I wish I had some helpful input. Try to keep your spirits up and maybe she’ll pick up on that. Good spirits always help medicine do it’s job.

{{Hannah}}

[Bam]

((((((Hannah))))))
Just want to send lots of good vibes.

[MissD]

Thank you. Looks like the tum meds are working, she finally had a wee (all over my husband as she decided to have one during one of her CC feeds and he was holding her ) and left a few poops. No improvement with the EC yet but it’s only the third day of treatment. One of her eyes is very weepy, I wonder if it has anything to do with it. I phoned the vet and she said to wash it with water and that she’d investigate it further when Hannah’s a bit better. I am amazed how patient Buddy is. Hannah wants to be as close to him as possible but she keeps bumping into him as she struggles to hop properly. I was worried he would get annoyed but no, he’s amazing. It must be so comforting to her to have him close all the time. My poor girl…

[jerseygirl]

Aw, bless him. What a good husbun!

Is it the eye facing upward that’s watery? (looks like it in photo). You could try a warm compress to relieve any tear duct blockage if that’s the problem. It feels nice to them regardless. They can get issues with the eye because of the angle they’re holding the head and if the facial nerves are affected. Maple ended up on her side for a week and the lid of her down facing eye became stuck open and dry. I was quiet concerned about it but my vet was not. She was more worried about her up facing eye. Turned out she was developing a corneal ulcer in that one. I hadn’t detected it until the vet showed me. I believe it was because her eyelid on that side was not working at all.

You’re on the right track for Hannah and got onto this asap. I hold high hopes for her! It can get difficult to see them like this, especially if rolling starts, but hang in there and let the meds do their thing. So glad to read the gi symptoms are starting to ease. Thanks for the update!

[BarbaraC]

Hi MissD. I am so sorry to hear about Hannah. I recently lost a bunny to EC. Lilly was on 5 different meds and Critical Care. She had meds for pain med, GI Motility, anti-parasitic, something to help with her balance and an antibiotic. Lilly never stopped eating, even right up until the end.

Your vet should check for an ulcer in Hannah’s eye. Even though it is the upward facing one she still could have injured it while rolling. The vet should flush the eye with a solution that fluoresces under a black light.

Although your focus right now is getting her through the next few weeks and healthy, some of the neurological defects caused by the disease can be permanent but acupuncture and physical therapy can help with these.

The following is a link to and article written by a physical therapist who used his knowledge to help his rabbit. http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/tilt_therapy.html

{{{Hannah}}}

[MissD]

jerseygirl – yes, it is the upward facing eye. It’s always been a little bit watery. My vet attempted to flush the tear ducts a few times, he suggested x-rays but I didn’t really want to put her through it. I will have it investigated again when she’s a little bit better, I will suggest an ulcer. She can actually close this eye but I put a nice warm compress on it yesterday and she seemed to enjoy it. She pooped all over the floor last night, the poops are small and sticky but it’s better than nothing, right? Still not eating so we continue to syringe feed. This is what worries me most now, why won’t she eat? She even chewed a toilet roll tube but does not want food.

BarbaraC – thank you for the link, I will read it right now. Also thanks for the eye info, I will definitely pass it on to the vet. I am very sorry about Lilly.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Awww….bless your sweet little buns. And more ((((Healing Vibes for Hannah))))

[BarbaraC]

Hi MissD. Thanks for the condolences. when Lily was sick the vets told us that some bunnies like Lily never stop eating but some stop eating with the slightest discomfort. It sounds like Hannah falls more into the latter category. Just keep giving her the critical care and her melds. As she starts to improve her appetite should begin to return. If she I spooning that is a good sign. It could take several days after she starts eating normally for her poops to return to normal.
Until then you want to make sure that she doesn’t have a poopy bum and that urine is not sitting on her feet too long. If she’s not feeling well she may not be cleaning herself well enough. I found very mild baby wipes that were 99.9% water with .1% grapefruit seed extract at Target. I used these to clean the CC off of her and to wipe down her feet and bum each time I gave her meds.
{{{{Hannah}}}}

I was just reading through the posts again and noticed that your vet told you that they’ve ruled out an ear infection because there was no discharge. An inner ear infection can be present without any external signs such as discharge. Have they confirmed EC through a high titer?

[Hazel]

Poor Hannah, I’m sorry you have to go through this, MissD. You caught it early on, so I’m sure she will be fine before long. Buddy is being so patient, he’s doing his part to help. I’m sorry I have no advice, I never had to deal with something like this.

Sending lots of healing vibes!

[MissD]

BarbaraC – She had a blood test that confirmed she has EC antibodies in her body. I know it doesn’t necessarily rule out ear infection but my vet wanted to treat EC first and then maybe try antibiotics. We have another appointment on Wednesday and if there’s no improvement by then, she’ll start her on Baytril. What really worries me is her not wanting to eat anything, I tried so many thing yesterday. Someone suggested baby food somewhere to try. Is it really safe to feed her that? We’ve got baby wipes and I make sure her bum’s clean. She still goes into the litter tray to have a wee so her feet are perfectly dry. She tries to clean herself but is too dizzy so I hold her up so she can do it.

Thank you Hazel and LPT

[Bam]

Baby food is ok, like unsweetened fruit or berry pure. You can give pumpkin mash (not pie filling, just unsweetened canned pumpkin). It can be mixed with CC. You could try a probiotic to help her tummy, my vet recommend Fiberplex for tummy trouble, it’s a UK brand.

[jerseygirl]

Maple didn’t want to eat for 4-5 days when she developed head tilt. Her appetite ebbed and flowed once she did begin eating. I hand feed her salad greens, herbs, willow, roses, hay. Do they have their hay in a rack? It might be easier for her to get when she’s all disorientated.

Look into whether meclizine or stemetil might help more instead of domperidone. If you’re on Facebook, there’s a group called Help for Head Tilt Hoppers.

(((Hannah))) hope that appetite kicks in soon.

[Dee]

How is Hannah? I hope she is doing better and if not, that the vet started her on Baytril. My bunnies have been on Baytril or Orabax with Panacur and Metacam and done fine. In fact BunBun only responded to antibiotics with his head tilt. Inner ear infections are tricky to diagnose- Bun’s ears tested negative for anything in the lab, but my vet treated him on symptoms of inner ear infection alone and he responded within a couple days. Are Hannah’s eyes scanning- moving rythmically? If they are, I was told that back and forth- horizontal- is usually an ear infection- and up and down- vertical- is usually neurological and more likely to be EC. You may already know that, just throwing it out there.

I’ll be thinking of you and Hannah, hopefully she will be better soon!

[MissD]

Jerseygirl – their hay is in their litter tray and in a hay rack. I tried hand feeding everything and all she wants to eat is the carpet. I have to keep her locked up now because she won’t leave the carpet alone. I tried hand feeding all her favourite herbs, hay, banana, apple, craisins, dried beetroot – she doesn’t want any. I keep syringe feeding critical care but I really don’t know what to do to make her eat. She just doesn’t want to. I’ll join the group and see if they offer any advice, thank you.

Dee – she is on Baytril as of today. Hannah’s eyes were moving horizontal the first two or three days, they stopped now and seem normal apart from the upward facing one that is very weepy. Thank you for thinking about my girl, I wish she would get better already.

[JackRabbit]

Sending more healing vibes…
{{{{{Hannah}}}}}

[MissD]

She’s gone… She had a massive fit, we rushed her to the emergency vet but she passed away there. I am heartbroken…

[jerseygirl]

Oh I am so sad to see this.
Please know I’ll be thinking of you & Buddy. I hardly know what to say.
***Binky Free Beautiful Hannah***
She will be greatly missed.

[Bam]

I’m so, so sorry. There are no words.

Binky Free, Hannah.

[tanlover14]

Oh my god, I am so sorry for your loss.

I remember when you first introduced Hannah on BB. My heart hurts so much for you.. There really are no words.

Binky Free, baby girl. And I will keep Buddy and you in thoughts.

[JackRabbit]

No words can even begin to say how sorry I am for your loss. My thoughts are with you, her daddy, and Buddy.

Binky free beautiful Hannah ……..

[LittlePuffyTail]

I’m so very sorry to hear that Beautiful Hannah is gone….she was so lucky to live a life filled with such love. My heart is with you and Buddy. ((Hugs)))

(((Binky Free Beautiful Hannah)))))

[Author]

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