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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Just gas?

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    • Kash
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        Hello,

        Yesterday Pascal was being uncharacteristically clingy before I had to leave for work, so much so that he didn’t want to play with his treat toys that he is usually engrossed in.

        After I got home he was still being clingy. I gave him lots of attention thinking he was lonely. We had a bonding session planned so I had to go get that set up.

        After the bonding session (which is in a bonding journal in the bonding topic) he got his dinner of greens, which he ate, then I set up his toys which he barely played with again.

        When I went to put him to bed I usually give him a bit of pellets to get him into his cage, he went into his cage but wouldn’t eat the pellets. I thought he was just being stubborn when I noticed he hadn’t eaten his hay or drank much water. So I got worried and looked up what to do.

        Thought it might be gas so I had my rommate help me give him a massage since he hates his stomach being touched even on a good day. All that did was make him annoyed with us from what I could tell. So I thought it might be molar spurs, and so I checked his jaw line (he acruelly loves this). It felt normal and he didn’t react as if he was in pain. He did grind his teeth a bit, but he usually does this when being pet and I believe he does it as a sign of happiness rather than pain.

        I searched frantically since he seemed really thin in his stomach area and found info on GI Stasis. Thinking that he may be dehydrated I gave him some really wet lettuce, and then some pellets mushed up with water. He ate all of it and I went to bed, leaving his cage open so he could have access to his castle.

        This morning there was plenty of poop on the floor, but all super small. I gave him his breakfast and I heard him drinking a bit of water(he has a bottle dribbler thing). He played with his toys too. I gave him a cup of water with a bit of crushed apples to make it more enticing and he was drinking it before I had to leave for work.

        I’m going to go home for lunch and check up on him. And after work Im going to get him some kale, baby food, and simethicone hoping to cover all my bases. I’m just worried that it might be something I haven’t considered. My vet isn’t the closest, and I want avoid a stressful car ride for the little guy.

        Any and all advice is welcomed!!


      • Bam
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          it does sound like a bout of gas. Give him some simethicone today and perhaps tomorrow as well. The small poop is probably because he hadn’t eaten much, esp not hay.
          Then just keep on observing, give wet greens, check poop and all that. Sometimes these things occur for no apparent reason.


        • Cottontail
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            It’s great to make sure he gets plenty of fluids if you suspect stasis, but I would keep an eye on how much apple goes into his water/treats just so he doesn’t have to worry about extra sugar in his diet if his tummy is already upset. Keep a close eye on his intake and on his poops. It could just be bad bit of gas, but smaller poops can be caused by stress, pain, or stomach issues. For example; my Tilly gets “Stress poops” where if something startles her, she may have several poops that only about half normal size mixed in with her normal poops for the rest of the evening.

            For gas, giving tummy massages and/or getting them moving is great for breaking up bubbles. If you have a particularly stubborn bun, simethicone helps to relieve smaller gas bubbles, but still works better when tummy massage is used, too.

            What kinds of greens are you feeding? Did you introduce any new ones this past week?
            Have there been any changes to his area lately? How is his hay intake today?


          • Bam
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              Maybe it’s stress from the bonding sessions?


            • Kash
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                I’m not sure if it’s from the bonding, that could be part of it. He was acting different before the bonding session.

                He usually gets about a cup of greens in the morning and the evening. It consists of lettuce, parsley, arugula, and some red cabbage. Recently we did switch out the arugula for Turnip greens since our arugula has been a bit off recently. That’s why I’m thinking of getting kale, since he has had that before and that never messed him up.

                His area has been the same recently and I did hear a bit of hay nibbling last night. I’m at work and won’t be able to check on him for a couple more hours.

                The apple water I made was 1/3 a cup of water and less than a teaspoon of crushed apples. I hope that is a good amount!


              • Cottontail
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                  The apple water sounds fine to me. I just wasn’t sure how much apple was going in it. I used to do apple water for my Pete when he got upset and didn’t drink enough, too. Sometimes just getting the extra fluid in him was enough to right his tummy and his mood.

                  Maybe the turnip greens aren’t sitting well with him? I would try taking the turnip greens back out of his salad and seeing if the gas goes away.
                  Good vibes! I’ll be keeping an eye on your bonding thread!


                • Kash
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                    Thank you both! I’m probably gonna be worried all day, he seemed better this morning though…

                    Also, should I continue the bonding tonight? I don’t want to stress him out if I can help it…


                  • Bam
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                      You could perhaps let them have tonight off? If he had a tummy ache yesterday he may not feel tiptop today, to add the (inevitable) stress of getting used to another bunny may not be optimal. Plus if he still feels a bit poorly he may not be in his jolliest mood and you don’t of course want grumpiness to interfere with their bonding.


                    • Cottontail
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                        I agree. The other bunny may not understand that the grumpiness is due to a tummy ache, and not just being aggressive.
                        Rest a night and try again tomorrow. Less stress on the bunny-parent, too.


                      • Kash
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                          Update!

                          Went home for lunch to check on Pascal. There were just a few droppings, and all of them little. I gave him a handful of wet lettuce and refilled the cup with water and less apple this time. He ate all the greens but won’t touch the water. He was hopping around a bit too. He is usually more docile durring the day so I’m not sure if the few droppings is necessarily a bad thing? I’m worried he isn’t getting enough water though

                          My roommate gets off earlier than me, she is gonna pick up a different hay (we switch between Kaytee and Oxbow as the buns get tired of the same stuff) and a small bag of alfalfa in hopes that will get him munching.

                          I’m going to try to get off work early and get some simethicone, kale, and baby food since I didn’t have enough time to get any at lunch…


                        • Pomandcourt
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                            Just to be safe, add some critical care to his food. If he’s eating his pellets it can be sprinkled on top. If not, syringe feed him. If he’ll eat it, try and give him a papaya enzyme tablet to help break up anything in his gut. (It’s pure sugar so most buns love it, but my one won’t touch them. Also, decrease his other treats as you don’t want too much sugar with him being sick)

                            My girl gets SUPER sucky when she’s unwell. She’ll crawl into my lap and just demand to be carried around and held which is not something she’s normally interested in.

                            It’s a good sign that he’s pooping (even if they’re small.) If he’s eating damp greens, he will be getting quite a bit of water. More is better, but he’s getting some. If he doesn’t fight it too much, you can syringe feed him some water. Just go slowly.

                            Hopefully he does better with the new hay!


                          • Kash
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                              I don’t have papaya tablets or critical car. I just ordered some though, but they will probably come a bit too late for Pascal’s current issue.

                              Pascal thinks that pellets are treats actually! But I will be careful with the fruit, it’s just hard since it’s something he will eat.

                              I’ll ask my roommate if she’ll try with the syringe since I’m at work, she is studying to be a vet so if anyone can get him drinking it’s her.

                              Also I read that baby aspirin is okay for pain, I’m not sure if he is in pain or not, but what are y’alls stand on giving a half tablet of baby aspirin to a rabbit?


                            • Bam
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                                I would not give aspirin to my bunnies, on account of it being hard on tummies, but it is bunny safe according to medirabbit. http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Analgesics/safe_analgesics.htm
                                They can have 10-100 mg/kg up to 400 mg/kg according to this table. A standard baby aspirin would have 80 mgs, so half a pill would be all right, but as I said I’d not dare that. I’d rather ask my vet to prescribe Metacam. There are instances though when pain relief is extremely important for recovery

                                Critical Care is very good to have at home for things like this, but for times when you can’t get CC, you can mash up regular pellets with water and feed that to the bun, in a syringe, plain or mixed with sth tasty, fex canned pumpkin (not pie filling, just plain unsweetened pumpkin). But if he’s eating his pellets like he should now, that would of course not be necessary.

                                It make take a little while to get over an episode like this, so keep up the simethicone and the massages. This is a nice little video on tummy massage for bunnies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnuxGLa2reg

                                Maybe you have already, otherwise change all the litter in the litterbox so you can see more exactly the amount of poop (and size and color) that he produces + make an estimate of amount of pee. If he drinks the apple water but not plain water I’d keep that up just so he stays hydrated.

                                Try to entice him to move about a little, but if he just lies right down and presses his tummy against the floor, take him up again, give more massage, keep him warm in a fleece blankie (their temp tend to drop when they’re ill. If you give aspirin, temp will drop as an effect of the med and so he’d really need to be kept warm, like in a fleece blankie in your lap.)

                                It sounds really great that your roommate is studying to be a vet tech!


                              • Pomandcourt
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                                  I’m in the same boat as bam. I wouldn’t give my bunnies aspirin especially for stomach pain. Maybe if I was desperate and it was from a broken toe or something non-digestive related.

                                  If he’s in pain, it’s likely from gas build up and if you can get him to take simethicone and continue to give him massages that should help alleviate a lot. Sometimes it can take a few days for everything to return to normal after they’ve had an issue.

                                  Sounds like you’re doing what you can. Just watch him and, as bam said, keep him litter box clean so you’ll know when his poop returns to normal.

                                  EDIT: Also, when I mentioned baby aspirin to my vet, she made a face and following with, “I guess…..”. So it wasn’t really a glowing endorsement.


                                • Kash
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                                    Alright, I’ll just keep aspirin in mind for future reference if something more serious happens to any of my two boys.

                                    I’ll be sure to keep the liter box clean, however much Pascal may not like it, haha.

                                    I’ll grab some canned pumpkin rather than baby food, and a banana in case he isn’t a fan of pumpkin. He can be very picky, and his upset tummy sure isn’t helping that fact…

                                    Thank you all again for helping me out! I’m hoping Pascal will get back to being his normal grumpy self. Him being clingy and needy like he is now is so out of character!


                                  • Bam
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                                      You can of course let him have like three old poops and some peed-on litter just so he doesn’t get upset with the box being too clean. That really can upset a bunny. 

                                      And if he gets worse, like if he stops eating and pooping, you need to take him to a vet. They can give motility drugs and sub-q fluids. 

                                      Healing vibes for ((((((((((Pascal)))))))))


                                    • Kash
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                                        Update!

                                        Got home, made some mash of pellets, ground up hay, pumpkin puree and a bit of banana. He ate about a table spoon of it before he didn’t want to be bothered.

                                        We let him sit a bit before we gave him some of the simethicone, we’re going to do 1-2cc of it every hour for 3 doses and then 1cc every 3-8 hours. And we mixed it with a bit of pineapple juice for flavor.

                                        Poor guy didn’t try to run away even though he really wanted to, it’s obvious he doesn’t feel well enough to do anything.

                                        Hopefully he will start to feel better soon! Thank you all again sososoooo much!!


                                      • Cottontail
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                                          How’s the little guy doing todaY?
                                          {{good vibes}}


                                        • Kash
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                                            Pascal is really energetic today actually! Im confident the gas has passed.

                                            However, he still won’t eat his hay, or drink water. When we gave him the simethicone we noticed his front teeth are filed at an angle and a bit longer than they should be. When I gave him some hay by hand he only ate the soft pieces and wouldn’t use his front teeth. Also after a couple pieces he would scratch his cheeks, and quite a bit too!

                                            I made an appointment with the vet tomorrow to have Pascal’s teeth looked at since I’m sure they are bugging him.


                                          • Kash
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                                              Now I’m a bit confused by this boy, we brought him into a room with some better light to look at his incisors and they look fine, whit and straight. I don’t know what I saw lat night that looked uneven or long.

                                              I don’t understand why he doesn’t use his front teeth, or why he is scratchin his cheeks. Hopefully the vet can find something tomorrow, I really don’t want to stress him out with a vet visit for nothing. But at the same time I hope it is nothing >_<


                                            • Bam
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                                                They only use their incisors for pulling food into their mouth, they do the chewing with the molars.

                                                Dental problems (molar spurs) are common in bunnies and will often present themselves to the owner as a stomach issue. If the bunny can’t chew properly due to pain it’s likely to avoid coarse food like hay and that will put the stomach out of order.

                                                A vet needs to check the molars properly, not just take a quick peek, and often that can’t be done unless the rabbit is put under. Molar spurs can be very very tiny and still cause lots of trouble for the bun. My bunny Yohio had the tiniest spurs and the vet didn’t really believe they were what caused his refusal to eat, but had the nurse grind them down anyway – a week later Yohio was his old self again after 3 weeks on CC and simethicone and the whole thing.

                                                If he has to have his teeth done, ask for a pain killer (metacam) to take home, as I understand it it’s not routinely prescribed for dental spurs (there are no nerves in the spurs, the nurse explained to me, but duh, the gums have nerves!) – Yohio clearly had a sore mouth afterwards (sat with his little nose in the waterbowl, most likely to soothe it).


                                              • jerseygirl
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                                                  Glad to hear he’s brightened up!

                                                  The vet visit won’t be for nothing. Teeth are definitely something you’ll want to get ruled out. It is so often related to gut issues. (Worth a chat with the vet to go over other possible causes also).

                                                  Maybe his incisors are moving so sometimes look maloccluded then sometimes not?


                                                • Kash
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                                                    Udpate!

                                                    Took Pascal into the vet this morning, and the she looked him over. There are a few small molar spurs, and the doctor was surprised they’re causing him problems at all (she just doesn’t know how much of a drama king Pascal can be). So those will be getting taken care of and I made sure that they will be giving us painkillers too. She also said that he is well hydrated and is at a good weight too!

                                                    I am so relieved!! I have been at work worried out of my mind about my poor baby boy. I Cannot wait to bring him home.

                                                    I know I said it a bunch, but seriously, thank you all SO MUCH! I wouln’t have been able to sanely get through this without y’all’s help!

                                                    Virtual hugs for everyone!

                                                    /ヽ,,/ˉつ
                                                    し(^u^)~♥
                                                    c(_υυノ


                                                  • Bam
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                                                      I’m glad to hear it, molar spurs are of course not fun, but generally highly manageable.

                                                      Thanks for virtual hugs =) Virtual hugs back to you + Pascal!


                                                    • Kash
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                                                        Bit of a not so good update.

                                                        Went to pick Pascal up from the vet and had a talk with his doc. Sigh, it turns out he as a misalligned jaw, I think it may be due to inbreeding? But I don’t know what the breeder’s practices were though.

                                                        This wouldn’t be so bad but Pascal doesn’t like to chew on anything, not cardboard, wood, or paper(he does like cords sadly). So I’m going to have to take him in to the vet once or twice a year to get his teeth filed. If he’d chew stuff it’d be less but I’m not too hopeful he’ll start chewing anytime soon.

                                                        But for now, he is super happy and munching on hay like no tomorrow! So glad he is feeling better!!


                                                      • Cottontail
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                                                          I’m sorry. :\ But at least it’s a manageable condition. I’m glad to hear that it’s not an organ or infection issue.
                                                          Maybe you can find a sweet flavoring to put on some wood chews or on the hay? Like spritzing some with cranberry juice or soaking the wood in apple juice? We used to soak Pete’s sticks in apple juice to get him interested in them for chewing.
                                                          Yay for feeling better!


                                                        • Bam
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                                                            It’s more or less the rule that molar spurs are recurring. Misaligned jaws in lops are common and you might say it’s from inbreeding from back when they started to produce lops – they wanted those very short round skulls that lops have, and unfortunately, that shape of the skull made lops prone to misaligned jaws and a few other problems. It doesn’t mean that Pascal’s breeder has done any inbreeding. The genes causing malocclusion are plentiful in the gene pool of lops, so to speak, and very careful selection of breeding material should be, but is not always, done.

                                                            My bunny Yohio who has recurring molar spurs is not a lop though, so it doesn’t just affect lops. So far he’s had his teeth ground twice, 6 months apart.


                                                          • Kash
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                                                              I will try flavoring some chew stick to see if I can get Pascal to chew on them. I think that he might like apple juice soaked sticks, we will see though. For now I don’t want to bother him too much. He’s still on edge from the vet visit, being given medicine, and just being handled a lot in general.

                                                              After the vet visit, and before bed he was in a bit of pain so we gave him a dose of his metacam, after an hour of not eating or moving I made up a bit of mash. Once he had a taste it’s like he suddenly realized that he’s able to eat and went to town on the rest of the mash as well as a good handful of hay. This morning he was hoping around and aside from being nervous a bit flighty, has been acting normal.

                                                              I’m sure it wasn’t anything from the breeder. The misalignment isn’t very bad and is just a small problem that we’ll just have to deal with. Hopefully in the future we can catch the spurs before he starts having too many problems with eating.


                                                            • Cottontail
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                                                                Pain relief does wonders to improve an appetite.
                                                                Sending lots of good vibes your way!
                                                                {{Pascal}}

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                                                            Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Just gas?