Feeling like bonding might be bad for Nelli ?

[Dee]

I took Nelli to the vet today because of her strange hopping with her hind legs pressed together and her right ear smelling kind of.. smelly. Last week, after Luke squeezed under the gate and they got in their little tiff, I noticed two scratch-like wounds on the top of Bell’s neck. Today, while holding her at the vets, I found another, deeper bite wound with the fur missing around it on her side. Its healing fine, but I’m still kind of freaked out by the fact that Luke actually inflicted wounds upon Nelli. She probably attacked him first, but still it scares me. 

Also, Nelli has lost 8 ounces since May. We don’t know when she lost it- the vet said it would be significant if she lost the weight since Luke arrived because that would mean she is very stressed by him. It could be that losing BunBun caused it- she always ate less when BunBun was sick so that would make sense. 

Besides that, poor Nell has a bacterial overgrowth in her right ear as I suspected, and is getting cataracts- mild ones so far. I guess I just feel like shes really showing her age and maybe adopting a young bunny like Luke is not good for her like I hoped, but bringing her more stress. After all, the downstairs is now divided between the two bunnies so she can no longer go wherever she pleases. I switch them every other night since they both prefer the living room. And of course we fuss over Luke cuz he’s so new and nervous and it’s fun to watch him explore. I’m on a guilt trip about this, wondering if I did the right thing. But I could never  return Luke- he’s part of the family now no matter what.

I had taken the bunnies on two car rides in a Tupperware, with my husband driving and me refereeing. Nelli kept trying to nip Luke, who was completely nonagressive the whole time. Weird thing is, when we were in the car, Luke snuggled up to Nelli’s butt and flopped! He is scared of the car but I don’t know of any other reason for flopping than happiness. Meanwhile, Nelli yawned a few times which I read is a sign of stress. She might be remembering the nasty bite on the butt that Lukey gave her- maybe that’s why she’s trying to bite him first. She probably wouldn’t recall anything that she did to Luke to cause him to bite her of course, only that he did, iin fact, bite her.

I don’t think I should do any more stress bonding until Nell is seeming healthier. I’m really worried that I’ll never have the nerve to let them actually interact now that I know real skin breaking bites can happen.  

I would greatly appreciate any words of advice or encouragement, or discouragement if you think bonding isn’t good for Nell right now. Thanks!!  

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[LittlePuffyTail]

Sorry you didn’t get any responses before now.

How old is Nelli? Is she currently being treated for the ear infections?

[jerseygirl]

I don’t think I should do any more stress bonding until Nell is seeming healthier. I’m really worried that I’ll never have the nerve to let them actually interact now that I know real skin breaking bites can happen.

I think that’s a wise plan to go forward with for now. I imagine you’re feeling a bit overwhelmed and still dealing with BunBuns passing. I’ve lost 3 of my babies now and I know I second guess EVERYTHING for a while afterwards. I don’t know if you’re experiencing this but for me, it’s just been part of the way I grieve. Plus I’m a chronic over-thinker! So for yourself and Nelli, take the pressure off for the meantime.

In regards to her space being limited now, is that a bad thing if she’s developing cataracts and having mobility issues? When sight starts to go, they can lose a bit of confidence temporarily until they adjust. I understand the feelings of guilt. I’ve felt it myself when I had to limit Jersey and Rumball due to her deteriorating litter habits and also because I’d adopted more buns! Their free roam days were more easy and entertaining for me. Yet they spent majority of their time in a cardboard box by choice anyway!

Having Luke about may still bring some comfort to Nelli. You could have them eat together on opposite sides of a fence for semi-social interaction. You may even have them sleeping nearby each other.

What did the vet think about Nelli’s weightloss? Due to ageing?
Regarding mobility, are you continuing with the panacur? I know I’d mentioned arthritis in your other thread but now in light of cataracts, I wonder if EC is still possibility? I had read there’s a distinct style of cataract development with EC but I don’t have further info, I’m sorry! I also don’t know if this was specific to young rabbits. I’ll try find out more.

[jerseygirl]

Weird thing is, when we were in the car, Luke snuggled up to Nelli’s butt and flopped! He is scared of the car but I don’t know of any other reason for flopping than happiness. Meanwhile, Nelli yawned a few times which I read is a sign of stress.

I’ve known of rabbits doing that too, flopping while in the car. I’ve seen one of mine flop too after running & breathing fast. I think he over did it and he came back to base and flopped. I’ve wondered whether they use it as coping mechanism sometimes. ????
I’ve never come across yawning being stress related. I only see mine really do it when they’re having a big stretch. Do you remember where you read that?

[Dee]

Sorry LPT and JerseyGirl, I missed your replies until now!

LPT, Nelli turned 7 on March of this year. She had 10 days of Orabax for her ear infection as a precaution but the vet is pretty sure it’s just an outer ear infection. He swabbed her ears and the right one, the one that smells, had an overgrowth of bacteria- I can’t remember if they named the type. So I’m giving Nell eardrops as well. I started them before I was able to get to the vet, since the I had some left from BunBun and the chance of them harming her is pretty unlikely- the drops cleared up the smell right away but as soon as I stopped for 2 days, came right back. So now she is on them for 10 days- she gets a follow up at the vet next Monday.

Jersey, Nelli just finished a 28 day course of Panacur. I agree that the hind leg issue and cataracts are suspicious for EC. I have noticed some improvement of her legs so I’m hoping the cataracts don’t get worse! It seems weird that suddenly she has developed cataracts, at an extremely stressful time. Im gonna look for cataract patterns due to EC- thanks for that info ☺.

You’re right, I’m still upset about BunBun and I so badly wanted to “fix” any grief that Nelli was having, I was convinced that a new husbun was the answer. I’m glad I got Luke, he’s a wonderful little bunny who deserved a good home. but has I known that they wouldn’t be an extremely easy bond, I wouldn’t have taken on another rabbit. However, now that he’s here I love him, and would never send him back to the rescue. That would be terrible.

Thank you for sharing your experience with guilt over limiting the original rabbits space. I’m a big one for feeling guilty and blaming myself my everything. I did get an xpen and split the living room in half so be both bunnies would be close to me instead of one stuck out in the kitchen all night. Since then, the bunnies have been laying near each other on each side of the fence, sniffing and doing cute little nose touches through the mesh screening (I put that on the Xpen so they couldn’t nip each other. No sign of aggression from either, although after they sniff noses, Luke usually turns halfway away from Nell, as if remembering that she’s mean (conveniently forgetting that he gave her two bites!).

Also, my husband accidentally let Luke in with Nell last night while I was out. He said he could hear them running around but he showed me the fur that was scattered before he realised his mistake, and the fur was minimal compared to the time Nelli got those injuries from Luke- that time it looked like a mini Nelli had exploded in the living room ?.

So really, the only negative things that have happened is Nell chasing Luke the first day home and him growling and running from her, the tussle the first time Luke escaped his space, some nipping and bumping from Nelli in the Tupperware/bathtub bonding, and the chasing and minor fur flying last night. Not too bad when I really look at it. But I’ve decided to keep Luke enclosed when I’m,not home so my husband doesn’t need to open/close any gates, since Luke seems to be very good at Houdini-like moves ?.
. And no stress bonding either- the move to the new house in the next month or so will be stressful enough!

Oh yeah- the yawning thing, I saw somewhere online that yawning could be a sign of stress in bunnies. I think I did a search “yawning in rabbits”. I knew it can be a sign of stress in dogs, but they’re so different than rabbits! Also, thats interesting about your bunny flopping as a coping mechanism. That could be the reason for Luke’s flops but I took him in the car to the vet, and he was very stressed but never flopped. So maybe it’s a sign of contentment from being close to Nell! He did close his eyes and snuggle up to her in the bathtub too. I would have really enjoyed watching Lukey flop, except his front paw was dangerously near Nelli’s mouth, and she was eyeing it like a particularly delicious banana so I was on high alert the whole time.

Sorry for the novel, but I can never seem to write short posts!

[LittlePuffyTail]

I’ve heard of people having great success when bonding in a new house. It’s as neutral as you can get. So hopefully, that will help. If it were my decision, however, I would wait until Nelli is not on any meds.

[Dee]

Hi LPT-
I agree with holding off until Nelli is not only off all meds but also has been seen by the vet and A) has not lost any more weight; and B) been found to be free of ear infection and generally just “doing better”. The vet knows Nell pretty well and he commented that she was grumpier than usual and looked kind of disheveled which could mean she’s not grooming herself- definitely a sign that something could be wrong. I think I’m gonna get her some alfalfa hay for a small add-on to get regular hay, and start making Critical Care cookies again ☺. I have a good recipe if anyone wants it!

My husband goes back and forth between being all gung ho to bond them and insisting that they’ll never bond and I should “send Luke back”. I told him I’d rather send him back LOL. Mess with my kids or my bunnies and I go into mama bear mode!

But I know that there is way less potential for damage in waiting to bond them than to rushing it. I’m happy to hear that other people have had success at bonding in a new house?. I plan to start with them in the Xpen and increase their space as they bond. Fortunately the new house is big so if they won’t bond, there’s lots of space for two single bunnies! Maybe even more ? !

[LittlePuffyTail]

Yes, send the husband back….lol

[Author]

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