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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Sandy’s Ear Infection Saga

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    • dude.the.rabbit
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        Sandy is our Holland Lop. Sandy started acting strange last week (not active as usual) and quit eating on Tuesday (4/14). The vet couldn’t see her until 4/16 so I started feeding her critical care. She was also having trouble hopping and would roll over on her side. I took her in on Thursday and the vet said she had tons of gook in her ears and definitely had both ears infected. We went right to Azithromycin and also Ciprofloxacin in both eyes and nostrils twice daily. We had a recheck scheduled for yesterday. On Tuesday (4/21) I called the vet again and asked if there could be anything wrong with her teeth as she still wouldn’t eat her hay or pellets, but would eat greens. The vet checked her over completely yesterday and said her teeth were perfect. Her ears looked much better too and she no longer has a balance problem. But yesterday Sandy started grinding her teeth and sitting hunched over. The vet gave me some Metacam which I haven’t used and we are also waiting on results from a CBC that they ran. The vet also said give her unlimited greens if that’s what she would eat and continue with the critical care. This morning I woke up to a massive mess. Sandy had diarrhea all over her and her cage. I could hear her stomach gurgling from across the room. I fed her critical care and have been trying to coax some hay into her. I’m afraid to give her more kale, but she is so excited every time I come near her. She wants some greens. Her stomach isn’t making as much noise as it was and the pooping seems to have stopped. Should I just feed her the critical care and skip the greens? Why won’t she eat? She was back to grinding her teeth again a little while ago. This is very upsetting


      • Sarita
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          I say feed her what she wants to eat.


        • dude.the.rabbit
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            Do you think the kale caused the poopy butt?


          • Sarita
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              I doubt it – probably the medication caused that.


            • tobyluv
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                Since Sandy is on an antibiotic, you may want to also give her some BeneBac or other probiotic, to keep her GI flora at a balanced level. You may want to go ahead and give her the Metacam, since she is grinding her teeth. I hope that Sandy will be well soon.


              • dude.the.rabbit
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                  I gave her more critical care and then some Metacam. She stopped grinding her teeth and is busy grooming herself. I had to give her another bath as she had more loose stuff stuck to her behind. I wish there were some way to get her to eat more hay. Thanks for the replies. We’re just going to continue on.


                • dude.the.rabbit
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                    Long update on Sandy:
                    We got over the messy bum. It was definitely caused by too much kale. She also gets a messy bum from eating any kind of treats (banana, apple, etc. – even though the pieces I gave her were smaller than a match head!) I force fed her critical care every day and cut back slowly until she ate her hay. I only give her half a leaf of large kale in the morning and night as a treat, and she is now eating plenty of hay. Her poops look wonderful, as large round pellets. I am also giving her 1/4 cup of Oxbow pellets each day. She seems to be doing well in the eating area. But, I am giving her a twice daily dose of Ciproflaxocin (antibiotic) in her eyes and nose, and a twice daily dose of Baytril. Her watery eyes have continued to be a problem even though I am cleaning her face daily (she totally hates it!). I don’t see any problem in her nose anymore though.
                    I’ve read that the runny eye condition could be chronic. I know our other rabbit, Dude, used to constantly clean her eyes. I thought it was cute, but now I think she has had this problem for a long time. I know Dude also got sick with this problem whatever it is. Since Sandy has been on antibiotics since 4/17 and still has this, what can I do next?


                  • Sarita
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                      Have you had the vet do a head radiograph?


                    • dude.the.rabbit
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                        What would a radiograph show?


                      • dude.the.rabbit
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                          Ok, I assume a radiograph might show the presence of an abscess. Wouldn’t two months of antibiotics take care of that? She has been on them since 4/17.


                        • LBJ10
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                            It may show tooth roots growing into the eye socket.


                          • dude.the.rabbit
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                              I did a lot of reading on tooth root problems. I really need to know how the stories I read turned out. My vet said her teeth looked wonderful, so the problem would have to be the roots. She does have ear infections which appear to be clearing up. This is taking an emotional toll on me :/.


                            • Sarita
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                                Wouldn’t be something you can tell by just doing an oral exam….which is why you would need the head x-ray. I can only tell you my experiences with this – it does not clear up and there is nothing you can do but at least you can know what you are dealing with.


                              • dude.the.rabbit
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                                  Sandy is still on Baytril and Ciprofloxacin. She is doing very well. I think it is just a slow and steady treatment and recovery. But I do want to say that her head tilt and rolling was cured almost immediately with the azithromycin she took in the beginning. Now we are just trying to clear up her ears, eyes, and nose (which never looked bad to begin with) I took her to the vet last week and she cleaned out plenty of junk from her ears. I am taking her back every two weeks and just keeping her on the meds. We also put a drop of mineral oil in each ear at night to help the junk come out. Sandy hates it! I asked my vet about the tooth roots and she didn’t see any need for an X-ray. I was happy to save the money. I think maybe Sandy will be taking this medication forever. It’s been 10 weeks so far.


                                • LittlePuffyTail
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                                    I’m glad Sandy’s ears are better. I can relate to the frustration for sure. I have a lop who has had chronic ear infections and runny eyes for years now.


                                  • dude.the.rabbit
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                                      At our last appointment on 6/2, the vet still pulled out more gunk from her ears and did an analysis. She said there was still some bacteria in there (?), but decided to stop all her meds and have me keep a close eye on her and watch for any changes. What do you think of that? At our last appointment, she told me we would keep on the meds until there was no sign of any infection! Sandy seems to be fine (she hides everything very well). I am very nervous about this and don’t like it considering all the junk that came out of her ears on Tuesday. I would rather keep giving her a dose of Baytril every day, than see her get sick again. But, maybe after 12 weeks, the virus or bacteria has developed a resistance to Baytril.


                                    • LittlePuffyTail
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                                        I think it is strange that the vet decided to stop treatment while there is still bacteria in there. My vet will usually prescribe a topical and if that hasn’t cleared it up in a few weeks, then we go to the oral antibiotics. An infection that is lasting that long, a culture should really be done to determine the type of bacteria and the best antibiotic to clear it up.

                                        Is there another rabbit vet you can talk to about this?


                                      • dude.the.rabbit
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                                          I think it is strange too! But, I don’t have another vet


                                        • dude.the.rabbit
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                                            So, here we are on June 24, and I am giving Sandy her meds again She has runny eyes and I don’t want to end up with the head tilt again. Has anyone ever just kept their bunny on meds forever? I’ve been giving her Baytril and Ciprofloxacin since March. This should have cleared up but I just keep making vet appointments and giving her the meds. $60 every two weeks. What can I do? Should I just skip the vet appointments and buy the meds over the internet? What would you do? Is there a stronger med I can give her?


                                          • LBJ10
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                                              I’m still wondering about the possibility of a tooth root problem. We’re pretty sure that is what is wrong with Wooly. He has to have antibiotics on and off. It just depends on when bacteria decides to start breeding in his irritated sinuses. This last time, it caused a problem with his ear and he needed antibiotics for that.


                                            • LittlePuffyTail
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                                                I agree with LBJ10. That very much sounds like a dental issue. Dental issues can cause problems with the ears and eyes.


                                              • Bam
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                                                  I recently did a MOOC on chronic bacterial infections, by Uni of Copenhagen. It was about humans, but it’s not far-fetched to think it may apply to other mammals as well. This is what I learnt, in short, stop reading if you fear you’ll pass out of boredom:

                                                  Sometimes bacteria in narrow spaces in the body (sinuses, middle-ear, tooth-roots) are not killed completely by antibiotics. A reservoir of bacteria lingers on. This is because bacteria can form biofilms which protects them from the outside environment, change their metabolism so they can survive without oxygen and they stop multiplying. Most antibiotics target dividing (multiplying) bacterial cells or exploit other known metabolic features, and they are thus useless against biofilm infections. They just kill off the free (planctonic) bacteria that are still behaving as “normal” bacteria. The patient gets better, then has a relapse. Gets more antibiotics, gets better – only to have another relapse.

                                                  What you then have to do is combine 2 or more antibiotics to target the various features of the bacteria in the biofilm, and this treatment often has to be kept up for a prolonged time, like 3 months. Any bacteria can form biofilms. Common ones are streptococcus aureus and pseudomonas aeruginosa.

                                                  This possibility, of a combination therapy, is perhaps sth you could discuss with your vet.


                                                • dude.the.rabbit
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                                                    Bam, thank you for the in depth response. Ironically, my Granddaughter is having the same problem as Sandy. She was ill and I had to babysit her (daycare wouldn’t take her) and the next week Sandy was ill. My GD had a checkup last week for her 1 y/o birthday and she has another ear infection in the same problem ear. Today I found a penny sized tan colored spot on Sandy’s mat and assume this is bladder sludge. It looked like tan colored toothpaste. This happened a week or so ago and I just kept a closer eye on her urine. Nothing unusual until today again. She has the worst toilet issues of any of my three buns. We finally quarantined her to the corner until she stopped peeing everywhere which hasn’t happened. I recently started giving her Romaine instead of Kale. Could this just be a way of cleaning sludge out of her system? Why does she pee everywhere? We need to keep giving her butt baths to ward off other problems. So poor Sandy has eye problems, ear problems, and urine problems. Somehow all of this must be connected If she has the “Snuffles” would it effect her urinary system? Would the meds cause this? Ack! What is wrong with my Bun! I am taking her to the vet again in a couple weeks but I don’t expect much help with this.


                                                  • dude.the.rabbit
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                                                      Here is a photo if our Sandy (edited – sorry I can’t seem to upload the picture

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                                                  Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Sandy’s Ear Infection Saga