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Forum BONDING PumpRock–Let’s Do This (A Little Bit at a Time)

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    • Little Lion Head
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        Well I thought I might as well start my “bonding journal” and start getting some help and advice right away. It’s going to be fun to have my BB friends watching the journey of Pumpkin (spayed female, 1 1/2 – 2 years old) and Shamrock (neutered male 1 – 2 years old!

        We brought Shamrock home on 03/07/15 after a successful bunny date at an adoption event. Pumpkin really didn’t show interest in any of her bunny suitors–she didn’t act aggressively; she just didn’t care! Almost immediately Shamrock hopped up and started grooming Pumpkin’s face. Not long after, Pumpkin started grooming herself. The adoption specialist said both were really good signs! 

        We don’t intend to officially start the bonding process until at least March 25th. That is when Shamrock has his first vet appointment. (His VPI pet insurance doesn’t kick in until March 23rd and I don’t want to risk them not covering anything). We just really don’t know much about Shamrock’s health history and having had a bad experience bringing Pumpkin home from the shelter with health issues, we don’t want to take any chances!

        In the meantime, Pumpkin continues to live in her 6 foot by 4 foot condo in our living room. This is where we hope to make the bunnies’ forever home together. Shamrock is living in the “sitting room” connected to our bedroom. They are very interested in each other…or I should say; Pumpkin is very jealous of any attention Shamrock is getting. She spends a lot of time at the baby gate when we are in the room with Shamrock. He’s even given her a few kisses through the baby gate (good sign!!). I think Pumpkin’s also a little peeved that she’s no longer allowed in our room (she liked using her litter box in there).

        We have also switched a few toys back and forth (stuffed unicorn , timothy bungalow, and crinkle tunnel) mostly so that Shamrock has some stimulation. Before we actually start bonding we plan to switch the litter boxes back and forth as well.

        When we start bonding, we have a couple of options for neutral territory–two bathrooms and a large storage area. 

        So, I do have questions! Two of them right now actually:

        1) Do you think we will hinder their eventual bonding process by allowing them to see each other through the baby gate (but not actually bonding them yet)? Should we be keeping the bedroom door completely shut (I just didn’t want Shamrock to feel cut off from us).

        2) Should we flip flop their living spaces before we start bonding? Have Pumpkin stay in the bedroom a few days and have Shamrock stay in Pumpkin’s condo a few days?

        I’ll post pictures as we work on bonding. For now, here’s a side shot of my sweeties!


      • Little Lion Head
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          Looks like we have a daddy’s girl and a momma’s boy on our hands (literally?! )

          Pumpkin normally HATES being held but has been a giant snuggle bug the past couple of days. Shamrock actually really doesn’t mind being picked up and snuggled, which is great cuz he smells so good!


        • JackRabbit
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            Most of the advice I’ve read says to swap toys, blankets, litterboxes, habitats, etc ahead of time to get each used to the other’s scent. Advice also says to put their cages next to each other (not allowing touch). I think that’s good as long as neither one starts getting stressed by it. We did all that with Kieko and the M&Ms, but Kieko peed relentlessly on everything that had their scent, and she got super stressed when we put their cages (the M&Ms were living side-by-side and played together but we hadn’t yet finished the bunny room) near her condo — she ran back and forth constantly. None of it worked when we tried to bond a trio, but all of it would have worked if we would have had to re-bond the M&Ms.
            It sounds like Shamrock totally wants to be bonded with another bunny and Pumpkin sounds like she’ll love the attention he gives her so I’d give the scent swap a try with those two.
            One thing I’ve read that sounds really good is to give each a stuffie, let them get it good and scented and furry, then swap the stuffies. These may act as surrogates and let the bonding begin. Worth a try!
            If you haven’t already done so, check out Tanlover’s website wheekwheekthump.com. She’s gad pretty good luck with stress bonding and marathon bonding with her bunnies (up to 7 or 8 now?). I was ready to do her skype bonding thing with our three when Kieko started into gi stasis and got an eye injury and we backed off.


          • Little Lion Head
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              I was thinking about the living spaces side by side and my concern is that it will make Pumpkin territorial. If we do side by side living spaces, I was thinking of building them each pens in our basement. It’s not neutral, but Pumpkin has only been down there about 10 times. I think if we set up a cage by her cage in the living room she might not like it (and we don’t have room!).

              I will definitely check out tanlover’s site-thank you for that!

              I was thinking about swapping the unicorn back and forth. I feel like the unicorn is going to get neglected in this process!! haha!


            • Tokii
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                Ok firstly PUMPROCK?? I laughed soo hard!

                I am still a newbie with the bunny thing. Toki is my first bunny. I just got him fixed and I still have bonding to learn about.Although what JR said sounds right. I am not much of a help I guess, but I cant wait to see how this process go. Do update us! I will follow the whole process! How exciting. And poor poor unicorn. hehe 

                Good luck LLH!


              • JackRabbit
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                  You need one of those double frames to put those pics in — too cute not to display!


                • Little Lion Head
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                    Haha you can thank JR for PumpRock!!! They are their special breed of celebrity couple!


                  • Little Lion Head
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                      Romantic Dinner Date! I was going to make a joke about them “going Dutch” with the check, but that would really only work if they were Dutches

                      Gourmet meal of Green Leaf Lettuce, Mustard Greens, Kale, Parsley, and Cilantro. Pumpkin ate all the Parsley and Cilantro first then nudged the baby gate trying to get to Rocky’s Parsley and Cilantro!


                    • JackRabbit
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                        That’s a good first dinner date — salad is more important than the other bunny. Although, I see that Pumpkin has her gourmet dinner bowl and Shamrock still has the “no dishwasher needed” version! (You shouldn’t have pointed that out! LOL!)


                      • Little Lion Head
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                          Hahahah ahhhh JR you weren’t supposed to see that! I’m going to get him that big ceramic carrot bowl that I know someone on here has….you maybe??


                        • Deleted User
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                            I have NO idea about bonding but I’m sure you already know that…. ha ha ha!
                            Just had to say, I ‘love’ your family photo’s, you make a beautiful family! *Sigh……*! Your SO lucky!

                            PS – I am NEVER going to hear the end of ShamRock from JR – you do know that don’t you, DRATS!
                            LOL!


                          • JackRabbit
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                              I do have one of the carrot shaped bowls — the only problem with it is that its narrow and deep. I wonder if those lambchop cheeks would fit in there comfortably. I ended up buying everybun bowls with carrots and other veggies painted on the outside. Ooh — I bet if you start checking around now, you could probably find a bowl with shamrocks on it!


                            • Little Lion Head
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                                Aww thanks Andi!
                                JR–you are so right! I will find something amazing! Btw JR–how in the world do you make sure you are giving the M&M’s and Keiko enough time separately?! I’m feeling guilty that no one is getting enough attention!


                              • JackRabbit
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                                  LLH — Now you know why I am always complaining about time! Weeknights are all bunny. We’ve gotten to where I spend most of the time with the M&Ms and hubby cleans the bunny areas — I get a little time with Kieko while he cleans her condo. Hubby spends most of the time with Kieko while I do laundry, make salads, etc. I sneak on and off BB during all of it! If we ever get all three bonded, we’ll be able to bring them downstairs for play time and just keep them all out until we go to bed.


                                • MoxieMeadows
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                                    I have no experience bonding, but wanted to let you know I’m keeping up with this thread!


                                  • Little Lion Head
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                                      JR I totally believe it! Hubby is working late tonight and I had to do some online work so I was frazzeled with bunny time, getting salads, making my own dinner, and spending time w/ both buns before starting my online shift! Yikes! Maybe THIS is why I don’t have kids?? hehhee Oh and I accidentally sat on Pumpkin–that tells you how needy she is being!


                                    • Little Lion Head
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                                        Glad you are here too Moxie!!


                                      • LongEaredLions
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                                          PumpRock-that is too cute/funny!
                                          And those photos are adorable, I couldn’t help noticing the hair/fur color combos, and how TINY Pumpkin is! I agree with JR-you MUST display those!
                                          Sounds like everything is going rather smoothly.


                                        • MoxieMeadows
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                                            Thanks.

                                            And Pumpkin looks so tiny being held!


                                          • Tokii
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                                              Ahhh nice first date. Looks adorable. And about the sitting almost on your bunny thing, I just wanted to say ur not alone i almost sat on Toki a couple of time. Lols!


                                            • Little Lion Head
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                                                Another dinner date! The dinner dates have been going pretty well

                                                 photo Snapchat--8862387117949380908_zpsq287rvtg.jpg


                                              • Little Lion Head
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                                                  Dinner dates have been going well in general. We give them their salads side by side with the baby gate in between every night and they are both focused on their own meals and completely ignore each other.

                                                  Pumpkin is still being jealous and possessive of us, but we did see our first binky from her in months last night! She bounded off the shelf hubby made her and binkied into her cage!!

                                                  I think we’ll be swapping living spaces in about a week. Hubby made a good point that he was just neutered a month ago and was with the same foster mom throughout that, so the vet would have caught anything health-wise then. With Pumpkin, she had been spayed, then re-homed, then got outside, then surrendered. I’m less concerned about the health stuff now, but still going to wait a bit so we have the time to commit.


                                                • Little Lion Head
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                                                    Well we’ve run into a bonding setback.

                                                    The vet wanted to run followup blood work on Pumpkin after her round of pen g shots for syphilis. All of her outward signs of the disease are gone and the levels they test for went down significantly, but they are not in the “cured” range. The vet thought she is testing with a non-contagious positive since she no longer has any outward signs of the disease. So we ran blood work again (3 sets of blood work at $90 buck a pop, yikes! Cottontail and I could probably have a competition to see who’s vet bills are higher!) and the level went up! The vet is a bit miffed but said that protocol is to go another round of pen g shots and they don’t generally do follow up blood work b/c at that point they are confident it will be taken care of.

                                                    SO, Pumpkin has vet appts. the next three Wednesday for shots ($50 bucks a pop if you were curious about how broke we are…). Next Wednesday is also Shamrock’s first vet appt. so we’ll chat with the vet then about how to proceed.

                                                    At this point it looks like we won’t start bonding for another month

                                                    We’ll continue our nightly dinner dates in the meantime. Pumpkin likes sitting on the run outside the bedroom and looking at Shamrock. Shamrock has been enjoying nightly visits to the basement to zoom. He actually binkied off the wall last night. It was so cute!

                                                    I mentioned in the Chat thread that we just learned that Shamrock was abandoned. That coupled with the fact that we are fairly certain Pumpkin was abused makes me wish we could bond them faster. I think they need each other! But we will patiently wait until we know everyone is healthy!


                                                  • JackRabbit
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                                                      LLH — how is syphillis passed between bunnies?
                                                      I know you wanted to start bonding, but having to wait isn’t such a bad thing. They’ll get used to seeing each other (you might even get lucky like Brunosmama with Bonnie and Clyde!) and Shamrock will get to solidify his bond with you. I know it will be a pain dealing with two bunny areas (boy don’t I know!), but it’ll all work out. In the mean time, enjoy Pumpkin being extra lovey and enjoy Shamrock’s zoomies!


                                                    • Little Lion Head
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                                                        Everything that I’ve read and based on what the vet said, it is spread through sexual contact or through a momma buns milk. I’ve probably searched rabbit syphilis way more than any person should and I can’t find that it’s spread in any other way. Still though, there won’t be an switching of litter boxes anytime soon!!

                                                        But I think you’re right JR; if there is a silver lining it’s the bonding that we get with Rocky and the super sweet jealous Pumpkin snuggles.


                                                      • JackRabbit
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                                                          I think you’ll ultimately be glad for the extra human bonding time. Sometimes newly bonded bunnies go through a period of only wanting anything to do with the other bunny and not their humans. I guess that’s them solidifying their own bond with each other. With my M&Ms, I’m not sure they ever came out of that phase! They come over for pets, etc., but they keep a close eye on each other and are never far apart. Their area is 3 xpens attached together, but I always find both in the litterboxes eating hay, both trying to drink out of the same bottle at the same time, both asleep in the tunnel, or both flopped against each other in the middle of the floor. I even watched Moshi drag his bowl of pellets over next to Marlee at breakfast this morning so he could be touching her. After running around during play time, they will sit in the litterbox and groom each other forever (its sooo cute when they groom each other’s ears or cheeks at the same time!). At least Kieko appreciates her humans!


                                                        • Little Lion Head
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                                                            Oh my gosh!!! Picturing Moshi dragging his pellets next to his woman!!!! So cute! Pumpkin does like to keep an eye on Rocky…I’m not sure yet if b/c

                                                            a) she likes him
                                                            b) she’s jealous he’s in our bedroom
                                                            c) she wants his food


                                                          • Little Lion Head
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                                                              So we decided to introduce Pumpkin and Shamrock last night. I’m sure the vet would have advised against it but the vet did say they felt that Pumpkin is not contagious and I’ve read so much literature that states the disease is spread through sexual contact, direct contact with lesions (Pumpkin hasn’t had lesions in at least 6 weeks) or mother’s milk. I found some info from Dana Kremples that says it can’t be spread second hand (aka through the floors, blankets, toys etc.). Shamrock has been kissing Pumpkin through the bars of the baby gate and hubby and I decided to just give it a go.

                                                              They have had 4 bunny dates in the bathtub the last two days and the dates have gone really well! Lots of Rocky grooming Pumpkin and she even groomed him once which is remarkable! They both lower their heads for grooming but Rocky ends up giving in. Tonight he groomed her for a straight five minutes!! He would groom her and then groom himself over her and then groom her again. She would wait patiently while he cleaned his own face until he could get back to her! After one grooming session he did a full on bunny side flop! She sat next to him, cleaned her face, then meatloafed down for a nap!

                                                              When they got up about five minutes later, I offered their salads in the tub. They were each eating their own, then Pumpkin decided to see if Rocky got anything better than her. They both fit nicely side by side in the carrot bowl. Then they both ate out of Pumpkin’s bowl. I was a little nervous b/c their heads don’t both fit in that bowl but they didn’t fight at all!

                                                              We’ve ended all dates on a good note, but honestly, there hasn’t been a bad note to end on! I’ll post some pictures later!


                                                            • JackRabbit
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                                                                That’s great! It sounds like you may have an easy bond!

                                                                I wouldn’t worry about their heads not fitting in her bowl at the same time. When Marlee and Moshi decide to eat out of the same bowl, whoever goes for a bite just shoves past the other one and they seem ok with it!


                                                              • Little Lion Head
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                                                                  JR do your buns groom each other? Hubby was asking if it’s going to be an issue if Pumpkin never grooms him?


                                                                • Little Lion Head
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                                                                    Here’s a video of some grooming action


                                                                  • Little Lion Head
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                                                                      This picture was taken after Shamrock groomed Pumpkin for a solid five minutes. He flopped, she groomed herself, and then she meatloafed!

                                                                       photo Screenshot_2015-03-21-21-38-37_zpsiv9tnk8h.png

                                                                      Right before she meatloafed–cleaning her face

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                                                                       photo Screenshot_2015-03-21-21-41-16_zpsjeaynpaq.png


                                                                    • JackRabbit
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                                                                        Marlee and Moshi definitely groom each other, almost to the point that it gets annoying (for me!). Marlee seems to do more than Moshi. I’ve even seen Marlee stand on Moshi like she’s holding him down to groom him. Moshi can make a mess of Marlee’s hairdo, but he does a good job on her ears. Marlee grooms him all over — she’ll even lick his feet when he’s all sprawled out. She’s sniffed his tail and tried there a couple of times but he pretty much draws the line there! I think the cutest thing is when they groom each other’s cheeks at the same time like yin yang grooming.


                                                                      • MissGabbster
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                                                                          Ahhh you started bonding them! Those pictures….that video…..*dead*

                                                                          I didn’t know that rabbits could get syphilis.


                                                                        • Little Lion Head
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                                                                            JR Shamrock has definitely been messing up Pumpkin’s hair, almost to the point of matting it. He spends so much time grooming her then himself that I think that little tongue must be exhausted!!!

                                                                            MissGabbster–it has a more technical term, but i can only be passed rabbit to rabbit (not to dogs or cats or humans, etc.) Pumpkin got out with her previous owner so we think i might have been contracted last summer and gone untreated for a few months till we got her.


                                                                          • JackRabbit
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                                                                              LLH — Rocky sounds like Marlee with the grooming thing. Just wait until he grooms Pumpkin to sleep! You will just die of cute overload!


                                                                            • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                Last night we put them both on the spare bed and hubby and I laid on the sides to keep them on. They snuggled up next to each other, next to hubby. So it went hubby, meatloaf Rocky, meatloaf Pumpkin. He was petting them both at the same time and Pumpkin went to sleep. I can’t wait until they are full time together! They already do things at the same time. If she’s eating hay, he’s on the other side of the house eating hay (they can’t see each other). Same for sleeping and drinking…they are on the same schedule!


                                                                              • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                  So I might need some help and advice.

                                                                                  We decided to try out a bonding session with a little more space today. We set up a playpen in our kitchen (about 5 ft. by 2 ft.). We also added a litter box with hay. Rocky jumped in to eat and Pumpkin forced her way between him and the side (even though there was more room on the other side) and not long after started humping him. No big deal, right? We added a second litter box with hay and I pushed her off when she tried to hump his face and if she was humping him “normal” I let it go for a few seconds then pushed her off. She was pretty adamant and aggressive about it though and even chased a little and pulled out some of his hair so we ended the session.

                                                                                  We did our next session back in the bathtub. I’m thinking the pen was too much space and maybe it was too soon to add a litter box and hay. I also read some of TanLover’s blog that said we should try to stay out of sight and scare Pumpkin with a loud startling noise so she stops humping (instead of reaching in and separating ourselves). So we closed the shower curtain (but kept peeking in) and I kept a pot and metal spoon handy.

                                                                                   photo Screenshot_2015-03-22-19-42-11-1_zpssyhb7bck.png

                                                                                  I used this to startle her enough to get her off him. After about the 3rd time he finally thumped at her (which I was glad of! He was just putting up with it!) and she thumped at me about 4 times (for making so much noise) and then forced her way between Rocky and the side of the tub (it was cute almost like she was telling me that I can’t tell her what to do and he is all hers). They laid content like this for about 10 minutes.

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                                                                                  My patient hubby:

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                                                                                  No grooming at all today from either one of them, but they both cleaned themselves at one point or another.

                                                                                  So we decided to set up a pen next to Pumpkin’s in the living room. Rocky is hanging out there while Pumpkin is in hers. I don’t think we’ll keep him there all night because there’s not a top on his pen but we thought it might be good for them to be near each other. Pumpkin hasn’t seemed territorial or aggressive about this set up (I was worried b/c the living room has been her space for months).

                                                                                  Questions:

                                                                                  1) Will Pumpkin eventually stop humping? I’m assuming that happily bonded bunnies don’t continue the humping behavior?

                                                                                  2) Was it too soon to introduce the litter box and hay?

                                                                                  3) Should I worry about Pumpkin pulling out Shamrock’s hair? He definitely yanked out a few tufts while humping him.

                                                                                  Any other comments or advice would be appreciated!!!

                                                                                  Edit to add: We did one more session in the bathtub tonight. A little humping that we broke up by making lots of noise and pushing Pumpkin off of him. It ended with Shamrock grooming Pumpkin and we ended it right after to end on a high note.


                                                                                • Sindri
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                                                                                    Were the litter boxes used before by either bunny? I went out and bought new ones just for bonding I didn’t want them to get territorial over the litter boxes. I also added brand new toys and things like that to the space to give them something to focus on other than each other. I did this when I was bonding in semi neutral territory during marathon bonding. Maybe if you aren’t bonding for a long period of time hold off on a ltter box. I also used a vacuum cleaner to break up any chasing and humping but I didn’t have a humping issue until I moved them into their bunny room. I did stop soon after its just part of this process of finding out who is going to be the dominate bunny. I think things are going great for you thus far!


                                                                                  • JackRabbit
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                                                                                      You’re doing great! I don’t think it was too soon for the litterbox and hay. And, humping is all part of the process. JMO, but you’re right to stop any face humping, but otherwise I’d let her hump. If things start to go bad then intervene, but they have to work this out for themselves. If he’s willing to let her be top bunny then he’ll let her make her point — she may try humping him from all sides to make sure he gets the message, just no face humping allowed. He may even hump her to let her know enough already. Fur pulling during humping may happen — some bunnies do this to hold on better. As long as it isn’t fighting or mean girl fur pulling or injuries, I think its just part of humping for some. Serious bonders correct me if I’m wrong!

                                                                                      Will it stop? It should definitely lighten up significantly after they figure things out or stop completely. Marlee makes a power play every once in a while, and Moshi lets her but then will hump her back and she’ll then groom him. Marlee is also butt biter when she gets moody and will chase Moshi, bite his butt, try to hump his face (he just throws her off), and keep on until he humps her and then all is well and on to grooming. This happends with them every few months even though they dearly love each other.

                                                                                      It sounds to me like your two have accepted the other bunny as part of their warren and are now just deciding on who’s in charge. It can be very stressful to watch, but its nature working its wonders.


                                                                                    • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                        Sindriona–initially we put in a litter box that has been used but had been thoroughly cleaned. When Pumpkin hopped in and humped him we added another box that Rocky had been using. I’ll use a new box next time. We’re going to need to get a bigger one any way.

                                                                                        Neither of mine really like toys but they love their food ball. That might actually keep them occupied for a bit.

                                                                                        JR–she totally humped him from all angles!! I thought it was so weird that she was humping his side like that! Hubby said “everyone just needs to be loved Justina.” lol….but seriously it is hard to watch. I’ve read a lot of TanLover’s blog and it’s so helpful and good reminders to let them work it out.

                                                                                        We are definitely not going to be able to marathon bond w/ our schedules. Will probably only be able to get one or two sessions in the evenings on weeknights. Do you think that will be okay?

                                                                                        TanLover had some other good ideas like a laundry basket on top of the dryer! We might give it a go to switch things up.

                                                                                        Thank you guys!


                                                                                      • JackRabbit
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                                                                                          You do what you can when it comes to bonding. Marathon bonding gets you there faster, but PumpRock seems to be moving at a pretty good pace anyway. I would wait for a weekend at home before making the big move to full-time condomates just to be on the safe side.


                                                                                        • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                            So what’s with Rocky just letting her have at it?! When she humps him like normal, for the most part he just meatloafs up and lets her. Only once did he get back and she chased a little then he nipped her on the nose and she quit. Then he just mealoafed again while she hopped around him going back and forth between contemplating humping and trying to force her head under his. Is it good or bad that he’s just letting her hump for the most part? A lot of things I’ve read say let it go for 5-10 seconds but if he doesn’t care should I just continue to let her hump?

                                                                                            And what’s this about….after about 5 minutes of Rocky ignoring Pumpkin, she peed in the tub. Not a lot of pee but we ended the session b/c Rocky continued to just sit there and it was going to dribble onto him. Was this territorial?


                                                                                          • JackRabbit
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                                                                                              When we tried bonding our three, Kieko went at Moshi from all sides and he just “moshed” down like he thought he was getting a massage! Sounds alot like Rocky! I interpreted Moshi’s reaction to mean he really couldn’t care less who was top bunny if it was that important to Kieko.

                                                                                              Peeing in the tub. Maybe she just had to go? Maybe that was her way of saying “Don’t just ignore me. TALK to me! No, well fine. I’ll show you, I’ll just pee.” Marlee will pee sometimes like that as a mini tantrum, but she usually makes sure someone is watching first. Sometimes you just never know with these girls.


                                                                                            • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                That makes sense b/c he had been hopping around getting ignored by him for a good 5 minutes!


                                                                                              • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                  Last night’s date went REALLY well (knock on wood!). 20 minutes in the tub, no humping (she went to mount and he hopped away and she didn’t try again). About 10 minutes of it was Rocky grooming Pumpkin, some flops, and lots of face cleaning!

                                                                                                  We switched their living environments last night. Rocky’s in Pumpkin’s condo in the living room and Pumpkin’s in our bedroom. Pumpkin is PISSED about this arrangement. Won’t let us anywhere near her. Pooped everywhere last night!

                                                                                                  Rocky is loving life. We saw about 10 binkies and 10 more zoomies last night! He doesn’t like being closed in the condo and he peed in the corner.

                                                                                                  They are both chinning everything which is adorable!


                                                                                                • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                    Yes, now the poop wars begin! With Rocky’s scent in her condo, Pumpkin may poop all over it too when you swap them back. If you haven’t already, you might want to invest in a small industrial shop vac just for bunny hay, litter, and poop that makes its way outside the litterbox. The industrial one has a larger diameter hose that is less likely to clog with hay (although sucking up the occasional buried toy still clogs it!).


                                                                                                  • Paradigm
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                                                                                                      Aw. Sounds like they’re well on their way to a happy bonded pair.


                                                                                                    • Cottontail
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                                                                                                        Yay Pumpkin and Rocky!
                                                                                                        Rocky and Tilly both seem to have the idea of “You want to be top. Okay. Does that mean I get loved?” I hope that once mine can get in on stress and marathon bonding that it goes as well as yours seem to be doing.

                                                                                                        JR- Thank you for reminding us about the shop vac! I knew there was something I was meaning to put on my shopping list. I had to take apart my vacuum the other day because it got a solid blockage of Tilly fur and hay (mostly fur) stuck halfway up the hose; I had to take the hose off completely and run a ram rod through about 8 billion times to dislodge it!


                                                                                                      • Paradigm
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                                                                                                          I’ve stopped hoovering poops and only small bits of hay after a blockage and the most horrendous smell emitting from it whenever we switched it on.


                                                                                                        • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                            We actually have a shop vac at the in laws that we are picking up on Easter! That will help me keep on top of this vacuuming business too!

                                                                                                            Just took both to the vet; Pumpkin for her 2nd shot (this round) of PenG and Rocky for a general checkup.

                                                                                                            Vet says Rocky looks healthy, happy with his teeth, etc. No concerns and we got that visit for free (yay!) b/c we adopted him.

                                                                                                            Vet wasn’t concerned at all about us bonding the two even though Pumpkin is still getting her shots. He thinks it sounds like it’s going well too and seemed happy about it. He is in love w/ Rocky’s chops! lol says he looks like Thoran from Lord of the Rings! He thinks we made a good choice for Pumpkin…but Rocky is so sweet I think he would be a good choice for anybun!

                                                                                                            Pumpkin is still pissy; now not only b/c of her living arrangement but b/c I tricked her into going to the vet…again!


                                                                                                          • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                              I think this is mentioned somewhere, but just in case . . . . Once they are bonded, wherever one goes the other goes, vet, etc., so that no bun picks up a different scent and risks being rejected!


                                                                                                            • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                Thank you for the reminder!! I almost thought about putting them in the same carrier for the trip (about 20 minutes) but decided against it b/c hubby was meeting me there and I want to be able to see what they are doing. So maybe we’ll do some car trips this weekend to switch things up!


                                                                                                              • Cottontail
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                                                                                                                  Two bunnies in one carrier: The ultimate goal! I can’t wait til we get that far with bonding… I only have 2 carriers at the moment, and 3 fur-babies! Plus.. I don’t think I have room for 3 full carriers in the car. :\

                                                                                                                  LLH- keep us posted on PumpRock (my brain almost said Shamkin!) I love hearing about them and seeing their bonding pics and videos. It gives me inspiration for my efforts!


                                                                                                                • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                    Cottontail — I can’t wait for your bonding stories. The way you describe things . . . bonding is going to be hilarious!


                                                                                                                  • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                      Ok…ShamKin totally works too!! haha!!

                                                                                                                      Tilly and Pete are going to make for some amazing stories!!! I can’t wait either!


                                                                                                                    • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                        Another bonding session today. Hopefully these pictures don’t come through HUGE…have a problem with that lately!

                                                                                                                        First we went on a 40 minute car ride with them sharing a carrier. Hubby drove, I sat in back and put a towel over the carrier. They mostly cowered together, but Rocky groomed Pumpkin quite a bit.

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                                                                                                                        Then we came home and put them directly into an enclosure (5 ft by 2.5 ft) we had put together just off our kitchen. This is more “semi-neutral” territory since they have both been in this room but don’t really hang out in it. We put the blankets up to keep them focused on each other. Pumpkin humped Rocky a lot off and on. A few times he got really mad and hopped away and then she chased him. We broke that stuff up fast but let her hump him if he was okay with it. They ate hay and drank water and there was a tiny bit of grooming. They stayed in there for about a half hour. Will probably feed them their salads there tonight.

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                                                                                                                      • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                          Now, I do actually have a question.

                                                                                                                          Rocky has been getting sick of getting mounted all the time. He finally kind of fought back by flipping Pumpkin off and then chasing her to the end of the enclosure. Right after, they both hopped back into the litter box together to eat like nothing happened.

                                                                                                                          1) Should we let Rocky chase her off like this? I’ve read chasing is not good b/c it might lead to a fight; however, I think he needs to get his point across and he’s better off telling her than us.

                                                                                                                          2) Should we continue to let her mount him so they can sort it out?

                                                                                                                          Honestly, I think hubby is more freaked than me. He always wants to reach in and save somebunny. I’ve read so much that says to kind of stay out of it unless it’s getting aggressive. I think hubby and I have different definitions of aggressive!


                                                                                                                        • LongEaredLions
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                                                                                                                            I always struggle with this as I am very quick to break things up but I have found you need to allow some chasing and mounting as long as it is not extended, and they go back to normal following it. They do need to work things out, so as long as it doesn’t result in somebun going for another, I would say let it run it’s course.


                                                                                                                          • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                              It’s hard to find a balance between letting it happen and worrying one might get hurt. We just did an hour and half in the enclosure. A little humping and Rocky chased her off when he got fed up. Well he must have nipped her b/c I was looking at her girly part after and there’s a little blood She’s acting normal, eating, running around etc. Sigh…whey do they have to go through this stage??!!


                                                                                                                            • Stickerbunny
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                                                                                                                                A few rules I followed when bonding

                                                                                                                                1) NEVER allow face mounting. Ever. A nip during that can cause serious harm.

                                                                                                                                2) If the bun being humped is seeming too stressed, cause a break to happen. You don’t have to separate them, exactly. Sometimes I just kinda pushed Powder off and would pet them both, since Stickers got way too stressed being humped.

                                                                                                                                3) Chasing is gonna happen, but watch for aggression. Mine actually chased each other to the point they flopped together out of pure exhaustion, but there was never any biting or anything, so I let it go.


                                                                                                                              • LBJ10
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                                                                                                                                  If it isn’t leading to fighting, then there is no reason not to let them work things out. I know it’s hard to know when to intervene, but you just have to be brave and hold yourself back enough so you don’t intervene too soon. You may be surprised at how quickly they start to resolve things.


                                                                                                                                • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                    Absolutely let him toss her off and chase her off. She’s made her point and he’s setting limits and letting her know. Don’t be surprised if he starts doing some humping himself. He may very well decide that the only way to end her humping is to take a shot at top bunny himself! You never know!

                                                                                                                                    Stand ready to intervene if any circling starts, and you can distract them if you see genital nipping coming. Mine ignore the spoon/pan, etc., but a thump combined with a loud “no!” works for us for most things. Have a few distraction options available.

                                                                                                                                    This part is very hard to watch, and was so stressful for me that I wasn’t prepared to continue trying to bond my three. I think they would have gotten over the hump (no pun intended), but I coudn’t handle it. We’ll try again when we can dedicate the time to it. With mine, Marlee’s a scrapper, Kieko an instigator, and me a wimp!


                                                                                                                                  • Stickerbunny
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                                                                                                                                      The hardest part is when they get so stressed out that they actually cry – a rabbit crying / whining is the absolute most pathetic sound you’ll ever hear. I almost stopped bonding cause Stickers was crying in every session. They worked it out within a week though.


                                                                                                                                    • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                        You guys are making me feel so much better!

                                                                                                                                        Stickerbunny–we aren’t allowing any face humping, but I think he may have nipped before I got her off

                                                                                                                                        JR–there were a couple times Rocky looked like he might mount…good to know, b/c I’m sure that will freak me out when/if it happens b/c he’s so laid back. Pumpkin ignores the pot and spoon now too. I brought out my very loud dustbuster and will use that today if I need to.

                                                                                                                                        On a less stressful note to make you laugh. The new litterbox is pretty slippery. Pumpkin was humping Rocky’s side so hard that she slipped and completely flipped over! Jumped right back up and started eating hay like it never happened! haha


                                                                                                                                      • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                          So, right after I posted this I went into my bedroom to get ready for my race today. Pumpkin is staying in our bedroom, Rocky is staying in the condo in the living room. Normally we have a gate up to keep Rocky in the living room and Pumpkin out. We took it down to set up our enclosure. Pumpkin zipped past me out of the bedroom–I thought no biggy at first cuz Rocky’s in the condo. She got spooked and zoomed into the living room behind the couch. Rocky saw her and BUSTED through the side of the condo and took off after Pumpkin behind the couch. I couldn’t see them but I swore I heard a scuffle. It was only probably 5 seconds (longest 5 seconds of my life!) before Pumpkin ran back out into the bedroom and Rocky agreed to be scooped immediately.

                                                                                                                                          Both appear to be fine. Not sure if he was chasing aggressively or excitedly or what.

                                                                                                                                          Also, we reinforced the side of the condo. Hubby didn’t think we needed zip ties on it and it was one of those things I decided to let go (not worth a fight)…it took this to be like okay, we are zip-tying this now, end of story!!!

                                                                                                                                          Ps–Pumpkin’s girl parts where Rocky nipped her look fine today, maybe a tiny bit swollen, but not bleeding. Was a superficial nip.


                                                                                                                                        • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                            Well tonight they spent two hours in the semi neutral enclosure…..did okay..a tiny bit of humping that was broken up with the vacuum cleaner. We will get there!!!!


                                                                                                                                          • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                              LLH, you all are doing great. I know you said you couldn’t right now and that’s perfectly ok, but these two are doing so well that a marathon bond would likely seal the deal. You will definitely get there so keep it up!


                                                                                                                                            • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                Taking your advice and marathon bonding today JR! Funny thing is, when I googled “marathon bunny bonding” the first link was to your thread in 2014 when you were trying to bond Keiko to the M&M’s!

                                                                                                                                                The plan today is four hours in the enclosure (we moved the enclosure to the living room which is not neutral territory as they have both lived in the living room now). We have blankets up so I’m not sure if they know they are in the living room. After four or five hours we plan to go for a walk (it’s nice out!) and give them a little break. Then we’ll go right back at it tonight for maybe another four hours if all goes well.

                                                                                                                                                Question: I think when we do it tonight we will take down the blankets so they can see around them-and see that they are in the living room (where they will eventually live together). Good idea or bad idea?

                                                                                                                                                Another question: We added the hay bungalo–will this cause territorial issues? It hasn’t yet, Pumpkin hopped in and right back out. But I was thinking it would be good to have familiar things that they will experience in the long run

                                                                                                                                                They have been in the enclosure now for 45 minutes with no humping (KNOCK ON WOOD!!!!). woo hoo

                                                                                                                                                Pictures

                                                                                                                                                This has been my saving grace for humping. It freaks Pumpkin out enough to make her stop (the pots and pans didn’t work for her).

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                                                                                                                                                The enclosure:

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                                                                                                                                                Hubby set up this video camera so I would stop hovering over them to watch them every time I heard a noise! I can see them on the little screen and not have to get up every two seconds and just let them be

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                                                                                                                                              • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                  1 hour and 15 minutes in…had to break up a humping/chasing session. Rocky’s meatloafed in one corner and Pumpkin thumped and hid in the bungalow.


                                                                                                                                                • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                                    The fight between Marlee and Kieko did me in. No injuries, but seeing Marlee go at Kieko had me shaking. I knew Marlee was not going to give up her “position”, she can be quite snitty.

                                                                                                                                                    When we do try again, when we reach the right point, we’ll go for non-stop marathon bonding until its done. We had originally planned to go for it over Christmas while we were both off work, but too many other things came up.

                                                                                                                                                    Good luck!


                                                                                                                                                  • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                      So I was starting to second guess the bungalow b/c after a hump and chase session Pumpkin got mad, thumped and hit in the bungalow. But Rocky just went over and groomed her in the bungalow anyway. Too cute!


                                                                                                                                                    • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                         photo Screenshot_2015-03-29-12-28-12_zpsdgqodifs.png

                                                                                                                                                        Our current situation


                                                                                                                                                      • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                                          LLH – I’m no expert, but when I look at that pic, Rocky seems totally ok with everything. He’s flopped out with his belly (vulnerable spot) completely exposed to Pumpkin. JMO, but it seems all that this bond is waiting on is Pumpkin to decide if she’s gotten everything she wants in the pre-nup agreement!


                                                                                                                                                        • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                                            I would love to hear comments from some of the power bonders on here like MoveDiagonally, Tanlover, etc.


                                                                                                                                                          • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                              I would agree it’s waiting on Pumpkin. Honestly, I think Rocky would be happy in any relationship. He’s just too sweet. We are almost 3 hours in and she hasn’t humped him since the first hour!

                                                                                                                                                              We are thinking we will let them live side by side tonight over night. One in the condo and one in the play pen.


                                                                                                                                                            • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                                 photo Screenshot_2015-03-29-13-15-19-1_zps3kdovm8e.png

                                                                                                                                                                We had to take out the bungalow. Pumpkin used it to try to break free…she got stuck hanging over the gate though.

                                                                                                                                                                We also had to put a cover over a section of it. Rocky jumped completely over and crashed to the ground. He’s fine!

                                                                                                                                                                Are they bored? We are thinking of finding a way to connect the gate enclosure to the condo they will eventually live in together. Thoughts on that?


                                                                                                                                                              • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                                   photo Screenshot_2015-03-29-13-57-52-1_zpsqprergud.png

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                                                                                                                                                                  We are almost 4 hours in. Had another humping skirmish about a half hour ago but now this!

                                                                                                                                                                  So cute he was grooming her then himself then her etc. Then he just flopped out and they’ve been like this for ten minutes or so.


                                                                                                                                                                • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                                    Why does Pumpkin do this?

                                                                                                                                                                    They snuggled side by side for about twenty minutes, both asleep. Then Pumpkin got up and started humping him. They seemed so content but she just had to hump him. He chased her off. Now she is meatloafed asleep in the litter box. and he immediately side flopped next to the litter box also asleep.


                                                                                                                                                                  • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                                                      Apparently she’s not satisfied that she’s won top bunny and he’s tired of hearing about it. Unfortunately, they have to resolve it themselves.

                                                                                                                                                                      On attaching the playpen to the condo, JMO, but I think you’d be happier with an xpen and it would look nicer in your living room. I can’t stress enough the importance of zip ties on Pumpkin’s condo — can’t have too many and definitely criss-cross at every place where nic grid corners meet (except for the door). The plastic piecies that came with the nic grids will not hold with both of them in there (especially Rocky) and they team up to break out.


                                                                                                                                                                    • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                                        Well this just happened:

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                                                                                                                                                                        These two have been sleeping nose to nose in meatloaf position for the past hour and a half. They had quick break, moved around and she flopped herself right here.

                                                                                                                                                                        We are at 6.5 hours of non-stop marathon bonding. No humping for about 2 hours or so.

                                                                                                                                                                        We already ordered an xpen, JR. Should be here any day! I was just thinking for bonding purposes today–to see how they do w/ more space.

                                                                                                                                                                        We’ve also re-enforced the weak areas of the condo after Rocky’s escape attempt yesterday. (I swear I heard him yell “ADRIAN” as he busted through…).


                                                                                                                                                                      • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                                                          LOL!

                                                                                                                                                                          Pumpkin is looking mighty cozy! Oh you are so close!


                                                                                                                                                                        • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                                            Spoke too soon. More humping and Rocky biting back. Hubby has his first war wound! They are eating salad now. Not going for the walk b/c I don’t want to stop the progress!!


                                                                                                                                                                          • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                                                              That’s how my girls became known as Dammit Kieko and Dammit Marlee during bonding.


                                                                                                                                                                            • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                                                One final update! The bunnies spent a total of 11 hours together today; non-stop, no breaks. We ended the night by bringing them into our room where they have both lived at one point or another recently. No territorial issues really!

                                                                                                                                                                                So overall I would say today was successful. There were maybe 4 or 5 instances of humping/chasing that both ended very quickly. Lots of grooming, napping, and snuggling.

                                                                                                                                                                                Pumpkin is going to spend the night in the enclosure, next to the condo where Rocky is going to sleep. We put part of the baby gate and a sheet over the enclosure to keep her in.

                                                                                                                                                                                Tomorrow night, I would like to block off the back of the couch and let them have the run of the living room!


                                                                                                                                                                              • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                                                  Hey JR—you said that once they are bonded they go everywhere together.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Pumpkin goes to the vet for her shot on Wednesday–since they are not bonded yet, should I take Rocky with or not?


                                                                                                                                                                                • MissGabbster
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                                                                                                                                                                                    I don’t know much about bonding but I’d say take both of them, that way if Pumpkin smells different when she comes back it won’t disrupt any progress you’ve made. Plus, it adds in a bit of stress bonding.


                                                                                                                                                                                  • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                                                                      Exactly what MissG said. Technically you don’t *have* to, but things are going so well that I would take them both. Why risk her smelling a little different and him not “recognizing” her?!


                                                                                                                                                                                    • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Makes sense! Thank you!

                                                                                                                                                                                        We are letting them run around the living room tonight but not letting them into the condo. Rocky has done some binkies, chased Pumpkin, and humped her a few times! Needless to say, she hasn’t tried to hump him.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Lots of chinning of things happening!


                                                                                                                                                                                      • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                                                                          I had a feeling he’d get there. I know the humping things get to you a little, but the bonding is going soooo well. They’re in non-neutral territory and still going well. You’re almost there!


                                                                                                                                                                                        • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                                                            Questions and Comments!

                                                                                                                                                                                            Bunnies have had the full run of the living room again this evening. This time I’m allowing them in the condo that they will both live in. Rocky has been living in the condo and Pumpkin has spent the last couple of nights in a pen next to the condo. There has been a little bit of chasing and humping but nothing major. Both stop as soon as the other bun says “enough!” I was worried about opening up the condo to them but Rocky’s groomed Pumpkin quite a bit in there tonight. We have both of their litter boxes in the living room and they take turns eating hay out of each. Fed them salads tonight and they actually ripped pieces of salad out of each other’s mouths! Rude! Ok, so update complete, now onto questions.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1) How do you know when it’s time for them to be together full time? Do I need to wait until all humping and chasing stops?

                                                                                                                                                                                            2) I’m still blocking off behind the couch and the rest of the house. Eventually they will have full run of the house once they are completely bonded. What should I do first? Let them spend a whole night together in the condo? Or open up behind the couch and the rest of the house to see how they do? I’m leaning toward condo first and then run of the house to solidify their bond, but would love some thoughts on this!

                                                                                                                                                                                            I think that’s it for now!


                                                                                                                                                                                          • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                                                                              First, stealing food from each other’s mouths is definitely rude and exactly what bonded bunnies do — and they’re ok with it!

                                                                                                                                                                                              Second, this is where I have to say I don’t know when “you know”. If you were able to be with them 24/7, I’d say keep them together now with no breaks and if all goes well in two days consider them bonded. Since I’ve never been where you are now, I’d be hollering for the serious bonders to tell me how to tell!

                                                                                                                                                                                              The one thing I will say is that there may be times down the road when one or the other gets miffed and feels the need to put the other in its place and humps. Marlee and Moshi do this once in a while and they’re definitely bonded.


                                                                                                                                                                                            • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                                                                Pumpkin just did her first full-fledged lots of air binky in months!


                                                                                                                                                                                              • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                                                                                  I LIVE for those binkies!


                                                                                                                                                                                                • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                                                                                    Maybe that’s her “I’ve got a boyfriend” binky!


                                                                                                                                                                                                  • MissGabbster
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                                                                                                                                                                                                      That’s what I was thinking. Like she’s just so happy to have a companion. If they both start doing binkies together we’ll need a video!


                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                                                                        The best part was, she went into the condo and came binkying out at us, so we got a really great view!


                                                                                                                                                                                                      • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                                                                                          Oooooh! PumpRock binky video!!!!


                                                                                                                                                                                                        • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                                                                            I wish I could get a video! But you know how it goes once they see the camera out!

                                                                                                                                                                                                            PumpRock spent the night in the condo and I slep on the couch last night. I woke up a few times when I heard something, but hard to say what it heard. I never saw any humping or nipping, but there were two small chunks of Pumpkin’s hair on the floor, so at one point I Pumpkin must have humped him and he nipped at her. Overall, I would say they did pretty good!

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I moved them to our bedroom today and separated them because I knew I’d be gone for 11 hours and didn’t want to come home to anything worse than a few tufts of butt hair. They have been getting along fine since I got home a few hours ago.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I think we’ll do the same tonight and tomorrow (I’ll sleep on the couch and put them in the bedroom while I’m at work).

                                                                                                                                                                                                            We leave to see family for Easter tomorrow afternoon. The bunnies will be staying in a bedroom with us at the inlaws. We’re not sure if we’re going to separate them or not, but are bringing cubes and whatnot, just in case!


                                                                                                                                                                                                          • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sounds great LLH! I’m so happy for you guys!

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I still find an occasional bit of butt fur with the M&Ms when Marlee gets in one of her moods like “I wanted to sit there Moshi!”. Unfortunately, Marlee also bites Moshi’s butt when she wants him to play. She’ll bite his butt, run, and continue to do that until he chases her and they both binky down the hall. If butt biting doesn’t work, she’ll hump him, he’ll toss her off, chase her, and then binky and groom. Weird bunnies.


                                                                                                                                                                                                            • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                Here’s my latest update:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Bunnies have been together non-stop now since Thursday night (4 days). We took them to the in-laws where they stayed together in our bedroom (no pen or anything). We saw one instance of humping/biting because we found some of Pumpkin’s hair on the ground.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Came home Sunday night and our X-pen came, so we are now attaching that at night and while we are at work. It basically doubles the buns space while we aren’t home. When we come home, we’ll just fold it up and set it aside (thanks for the idea JR!). It’s quite slick and will work well for visiting family, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                We saw some humping/biting/chasing this morning, but it all ends quite quickly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                So, Pumpkin is really diva. She still refuses to groom Shamrock at all. I see her chin him a lot, but mostly they have arguments over who’s going to groom who (basically who can shove their head down to the ground the furthest). After a few minutes, Shamrock always gives in and grooms Pumpkin. Then if it’s not to her likely, she goes to mount him and he chases her off.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Will she ever love him the way he loves her? Will he get sick of this one sided relationship?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Anyways, they are doing well. We took down the blockades and they can get behind the couch and have run of the main floor when we’re home. We’ve seen no argression outside of Shamrock getting sick of Pumpkin humping.


                                                                                                                                                                                                              • JackRabbit
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I was wondering how thw newlyweds were doing!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Some bunnies just won’t groom but as long as Rocky’s ok with it I wouldn’t worry about it. She may eventually come around. I think it’s so cute that she chins him! Maybe that’s her way of saying “you’re a big handsome guy and you’re mine and I love you but I don’t want your fur stuck in my teeth”!


                                                                                                                                                                                                                • Little Lion Head
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Haha I’m picturing Pumpkin saying that! I was wondering if she was trying to mark him as hers?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Cottontail
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I pictured Pumpkin chinning Shamrock’s head and singing, “You belong to me..” in a squeaky smug little voice. lol
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I don’t reply to this thread near as often as I should… I’m such a lurker lately!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Forum BONDING PumpRock–Let’s Do This (A Little Bit at a Time)